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CJCRANE

(18,184 posts)

51. We already had a multi-dimensional barter system

Fri Oct 25, 2013, 06:31 AM

Oct 2013

which represented a combination of effort/labor/skill/scarcity for each product or service, in a reasonably fair way.

Since the 70s the effort/labor/skill part has become increasingly undervalued.

Then with the bailouts in '08 the system was turned upside down with catastrophic failure being rewarded. So nowadays financial reward seems increasingly arbitrary with no real connection to effort/skill or traditional business ideas of risk/reward.

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What is "money"? [View all] kentuck Oct 2013 OP

The US dollar is a Fiat currency johnd83 Oct 2013 #1

The problem arises when... kentuck Oct 2013 #4

No, quite the opposite johnd83 Oct 2013 #5

Isn't that what I said? kentuck Oct 2013 #8

IMHO it is the inequality johnd83 Oct 2013 #15

Yes. kentuck Oct 2013 #16

Keynesian economics Lifelong Dem Oct 2013 #17

I would argue we currently have too much money coming from too little productivity. Nuclear Unicorn Oct 2013 #30

Fiat currencies, by their very nature, are inflationary Warpy Oct 2013 #6

Inflation isn't necessarily a bad thing johnd83 Oct 2013 #7

The best times we ever had was when wages were tied to productivity. kentuck Oct 2013 #9

Concur. See my Post #30 Nuclear Unicorn Oct 2013 #31

All currency is fiat currency eridani Oct 2013 #47

Precious metals are NOT, by definition, fiat currency Art_from_Ark Oct 2013 #54

Metal prices fluctuate because of irrational human whims eridani Oct 2013 #60

You can't just go making up your own definitions Art_from_Ark Oct 2013 #61

I still maintain that all currencies are based on social arrangements eridani Oct 2013 #62

Yes, governments set denominational values but markets set prices. Nuclear Unicorn Oct 2013 #63

Fiat currency means the government-issued money is unbacked Art_from_Ark Oct 2013 #67

Can't argue with any of that. Thank-you for the conversation. n/t Nuclear Unicorn Oct 2013 #68

I agree, commodity backed currencies are no better johnd83 Oct 2013 #59

Money is a concept. CK_John Oct 2013 #2

...by which we measure our pain. deutsey Oct 2013 #32

It's debt that someone owes us Warpy Oct 2013 #3

Still a really memorable piece of music Fumesucker Oct 2013 #10

Yep! kentuck Oct 2013 #11

Hell yes Warren DeMontague Oct 2013 #21

But if we instead had the $17 billion dollars in debt in the hands of American consumers.... kentuck Oct 2013 #12

I make it quaker bill Oct 2013 #13

Are you speaking of the value of money or...? kentuck Oct 2013 #14

No, it is neither quaker bill Oct 2013 #18

Not all labor has the same value. GreenStormCloud Oct 2013 #39

Labor is subject to the law of supply and demand. kentuck Oct 2013 #40

True but that value derived from the necessity would be an incentive to competition. Nuclear Unicorn Oct 2013 #49

Your art does not create money, it competes for money that already exists. CJCRANE Oct 2013 #20

Not actually true quaker bill Oct 2013 #24

You create value - but only if other people are prepared to pay for it. CJCRANE Oct 2013 #25

I would argue the consumer ultimately assigns value. Nuclear Unicorn Oct 2013 #50

You are creating Wealth, not Money jmowreader Oct 2013 #22

Wealth is expressed quaker bill Oct 2013 #26

Your art is creating money for you CJCRANE Oct 2013 #27

all money is magiced up out of nowhere quaker bill Oct 2013 #41

Wealth becomes money when you either exchange it for or use it as money jmowreader Oct 2013 #33

What I believe is indeed irrelevant quaker bill Oct 2013 #42

Can you buy a car with your art? Or food? jmowreader Oct 2013 #45

It is really this simple quaker bill Oct 2013 #46

a final point quaker bill Oct 2013 #43

The IRS taxes on inventory? I thought they taxed income from completed transactions? Nuclear Unicorn Oct 2013 #64

The change in value of inventory is income. quaker bill Oct 2013 #65

But your inventory has no real value until someone pays for it Nuclear Unicorn Oct 2013 #66

If true, then inventory is a great way to hide income. quaker bill Oct 2013 #69

Cabbage Electric Monk Oct 2013 #19

PhD theses can be and have been written on that question Recursion Oct 2013 #23

Most money exists only as account balances in computers. FarCenter Oct 2013 #28

At this point, it's not even paper - it's data points .... Myrina Oct 2013 #29

I think a lot about creating a society that no longer uses money. hunter Oct 2013 #34

You have to have something standard that everyone will accept. kentuck Oct 2013 #35

With the powerful computing systems we have these days, and most every family having a cell phone... hunter Oct 2013 #38

That sounds like the goal of the "bitcoin" project jmowreader Oct 2013 #48

No. Bitcoins are a point metric as well. hunter Oct 2013 #56

We already had a multi-dimensional barter system CJCRANE Oct 2013 #51

I think that's because everything is measured in dollars. hunter Oct 2013 #57

Interesting idea. CJCRANE Oct 2013 #37

The powers who control the creation and distribution of money do tell people what to do hunter Oct 2013 #55

Money is meaningless Shankapotomus Oct 2013 #36

An arbitrary metric for ones right to make arbitrary demands of ones fellow citizens. nt bemildred Oct 2013 #44

one of the two Niceguy1 Oct 2013 #52

Money is whatever people believe customerserviceguy Oct 2013 #53

Exactly! econoclast Oct 2013 #58