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MADem

(135,425 posts)

79. Expert? He panicked, he bailed out and left his CREW to die!

Sat Oct 26, 2013, 09:13 PM

Oct 2013

This was a topic of conversation on DU over nine years ago:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x994545

I don't mean to make too fine a point of it, but courage is courage, and it doesn't matter if you are a seaman recruit, a Lieutenant (j.g.), or a vice admiral.

And as someone who spent decades in uniform, I can tell you I've seen courage and cowardice at all paygrades. Most veterans who spent any amount of time in service know that. Rank does not grant qualities not already present in an individual. A shithead ensign will be a shithead admiral. A seaman recruit who is thoughtful and caring will be a master chief who is thoughtful and caring. Character isn't a function of salary or time in service.

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1972 McGovern campaign, what would you have done ? [View all] steve2470 Oct 2013 OP

I voted for McGovern, and would again. However, if Bobby wasn't killed, he would have been the lostincalifornia Oct 2013 #1

I guess that's the classic conundrum, how to overcome media bias steve2470 Oct 2013 #4

If Bobby hadn't been killed he would have been running for his 2nd term in '72 dflprincess Oct 2013 #24

You are correct lostincalifornia Oct 2013 #26

No, a myth. former9thward Oct 2013 #47

I absolutely agree. murielm99 Oct 2013 #52

Humphrey would have been the nominee regardless in 1968 book_worm Oct 2013 #78

That's a lot of alternative reality being posited there. WinkyDink Oct 2013 #82

Yep. RFK in '68 and '72 MinM Oct 2013 #90

You do realize these were different election years, 1968 vs. 1972? WinkyDink Oct 2013 #81

That was the first campaign I volunteered in LiberalEsto Oct 2013 #2

He did bring up Watergate. I remember the references in his speeches. GreenStormCloud Oct 2013 #11

Not enough. He was too "polite" LiberalEsto Oct 2013 #13

His own polling had shown that the public didn't care about Watergate. GreenStormCloud Oct 2013 #17

Watergate was not yet Watergate at the time of the election. former9thward Oct 2013 #48

We were in a war. Americans wanted a tough guy. N/T GreenStormCloud Oct 2013 #72

I was a precinct delegate and worked for McGovern. longship Oct 2013 #3

i voted for him. spanone Oct 2013 #5

So did I. ANOIS Oct 2013 #87

We worked our asses off for McGovern Gman Oct 2013 #6

Goldwater was crushed in 64, the right reorganized and 16 years later won it all. Warren Stupidity Oct 2013 #7

Won it all? In 1980 Democrats still held the House. N/T GreenStormCloud Oct 2013 #70

Sort of. Warren Stupidity Oct 2013 #75

He could easily have won the election... catnhatnh Oct 2013 #8

LBJ had too many skeltons in his closet to expose other people. former9thward Oct 2013 #49

You've forgotten Eagleton? WinkyDink Oct 2013 #83

I worked for Mc Govern and rang door bells and met people. Stuart G Oct 2013 #9

Me too and I gave more money than I could afford. broiles Oct 2013 #46

McGovern doomed himself. GreenStormCloud Oct 2013 #10

It was my first campaign supporting a Democrat. grantcart Oct 2013 #55

I had forgotten about that. GreenStormCloud Oct 2013 #71

Of all the things I have done in politics, the thing I am most proud of is working for McGovern. chieftain Oct 2013 #12

Historian Stephen Ambrose said McGovern didn't use his war record well OmahaBlueDog Oct 2013 #14

War records as a junior officer aren't much help. GreenStormCloud Oct 2013 #18

Being a bomber pilot in WWII took several good qualities OmahaBlueDog Oct 2013 #21

My father was a WWII veteran (Army). GreenStormCloud Oct 2013 #74

Air medal, Distinguished Flying Cross, 35 combat missions? He was a war hero (see post 27). MADem Oct 2013 #28

McGovern could have also used his bomber experience as an argument to end the war in Nam OmahaBlueDog Oct 2013 #31

Shrub could only beat Kerry by "swift boating" him--he had to tell lies about him. MADem Oct 2013 #33

Poppy Bush was an expert pilot, and a sorry president. GreenStormCloud Oct 2013 #68

Expert? He panicked, he bailed out and left his CREW to die! MADem Oct 2013 #79

They show that you won't send the peons to do something you wouldn't do yourself Hippo_Tron Oct 2013 #51

JFK was a junior officer who showed courage under fire, and it helped him. MADem Oct 2013 #57

And the 1960 election was razor thin. GreenStormCloud Oct 2013 #69

My Navy family preferred the "courage under fire" guy to the "In the rear With The Gear" guy. MADem Oct 2013 #76

He didn't use it at ALL. And he wasn't just an excellent pilot! He was a war HERO. MADem Oct 2013 #27

Listen to MaDem ^^ OmahaBlueDog Oct 2013 #29

I'm proud to say that I campaigned and voted for him. scarletwoman Oct 2013 #15

Me too...my 1st vote. Old and In the Way Oct 2013 #62

I supported McCarthy in the primary but no nose holding was necessary for McGovern. Tierra_y_Libertad Oct 2013 #16

Gone back to the 1968 rules committee to not change voting rules so drasticlly CatholicEdHead Oct 2013 #19

THey should have leaked all the stuff about Watergate to the American public gopiscrap Oct 2013 #20

The Media covered up Watergate RobertEarl Oct 2013 #23

Watergate came about from the Media. former9thward Oct 2013 #50

I voted for George, lost because of Dem factualism, it was one nasty campaign. CK_John Oct 2013 #22

I will always be proud that the first vote I ever cast was for George McGovern. n/t dflprincess Oct 2013 #25

McGovern was my first presidential vote. Blue_In_AK Oct 2013 #30

Seems like only a few yrs. ago. Mailings. Door hangers, Eleanors38 Oct 2013 #32

Talk about his military record and not pull any punches. Deep13 Oct 2013 #34

McGovern was never going to win that election... Drunken Irishman Oct 2013 #35

I think that election, more than any election in the last 70 years, speaks to the issue of.......... steve2470 Oct 2013 #36

Yeah. I see it impossible unless Watergate blows up in '72 and even then... Drunken Irishman Oct 2013 #37

Ed Muskie wasn't going to beat Nixon, either though.... Hippo_Tron Oct 2013 #54

Democrats stood little chance in '72. Drunken Irishman Oct 2013 #59

Edmund Muskie and George Wallace were only candidates CREEP was worried about... MinM Oct 2013 #85

Nixon was a paranoid nutcase, his worries were over nothing... Hippo_Tron Oct 2013 #91

The Canuck Letter MinM Oct 2013 #95

McGovern had a path to 270, certainly, nyquil_man Oct 2013 #38

great post, thank you steve2470 Oct 2013 #39

This reminds me of something I saw years ago in a poli sci textbook. nyquil_man Oct 2013 #40

A lot of the Democratic establishment actively worked against him eridani Oct 2013 #41

National party types tend to be most concerned with keeping their own power. bemildred Oct 2013 #43

My point was that not all dissidents are treated equally eridani Oct 2013 #64

It's more of a threat. bemildred Oct 2013 #66

Greens, socialists and Democrats would have to be on the same side in order for eridani Oct 2013 #86

It depends on what your goals are. bemildred Oct 2013 #88

OK--not quite sure until now what point you were trying to make n/t eridani Oct 2013 #92

I am explaining why National Party types will NEVER support political insurgencies. bemildred Oct 2013 #93

I look at this in two ways... Hippo_Tron Oct 2013 #56

There's a degree of self-fulfilling prophecy in their actions. nyquil_man Oct 2013 #65

I voted for him, I still have buttons. I'd do it again. bemildred Oct 2013 #42

if America knew about the prairie populist, war hero, Methodist minister and history teacher that Douglas Carpenter Oct 2013 #44

I would have voted for McGovern in the general treestar Oct 2013 #45

Nixon was probably unbeatable Hippo_Tron Oct 2013 #53

Hunter Thompson said that McGovern lacked a "streak of Mick Jagger in his soul..." First Speaker Oct 2013 #58

Elections are too important to leave to the tepidness. Ask Dukakis... Drunken Irishman Oct 2013 #60

Well, I voted for him and campaigned for him in my MineralMan Oct 2013 #61

Ivoted for him(of course)but wrote him to drop out in primaries.A summary of the posts I agree with: UTUSN Oct 2013 #63

If I'd been American and old enough to vote, I'd have voted for McGovern - no doubt at all! LeftishBrit Oct 2013 #67

Don't know.... llmart Oct 2013 #73

He probably wouldn't have won anyway, but... book_worm Oct 2013 #77

I voted for him. There was no way in Hades he was going to win. I think the result evidences that. WinkyDink Oct 2013 #80

That is easy - worked a booth at the fair and voted for him. DURHAM D Oct 2013 #84

kick for more discussion nt steve2470 Oct 2013 #89

McGovern wanted to legalize marijuana and end the Vietnam War, B Calm Oct 2013 #94

The amount of crap pulled by the repugs in that election was staggering marym625 May 2015 #96