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TheKentuckian

(26,314 posts)
17. False choice, I never was a single payer or bust sort but still believe that reform
Sun Oct 27, 2013, 04:19 PM
Oct 2013

even under this general paradigm could contain more actual reform and less papering over of the existing nightmare.

The idea that this was some binary choice between single payer, what we got, and nothing is lazy and unsupported. Broad outlines used to obscure the details. I can construct a form of and revenue streams for single payer that would make such a good basic idea, hellish.

Is what we got the worst permutation of a market based scheme? Certainly not. It's it the best plausible construction under even that framework? Not even close, I fact so weak that escape velocity from the current paradigm is a matter of faith than the actual structure of the law. Not by the CBO projections it doesn't.

Does this law make some meaningful changes to the existing system?

Yes, particularly in a very abusive individual market but it does so by emulating a large group market that is no world model, giving the insurance cartel a key to the treasury, managing customers to a still loosely regulated cartel with an antitrust exemption, giving pharmaceutical manufacturers an even greater hand to extract wealth rather than forcing them to the negotiation table, taxing benefits, shoving self rationing and greater cost sharing down or collective throats, and no small amount of robbing "Peter" to pay "Paul" to spread the pain rather than going after those with resources in a significant way because a fees for service model will always do that when from within that structure those with the least are given aid and support.

The bite is less as you go up the ladder, cost are spread in an anti-progressive fashion one you leave the tier of greatest benefit up to the point where the scale of economy dictates that in the wash, those at and near the top actually save significantly as a share of income with less financial exposer than they had before reform and avoid any significant taxes in the exchange.

The support for the most vulnerable has been structured in a fashion that also greatly aids the well of at the expense of the rapidly shrinking middle, especially in attacking plans that folks have traded lots of income with no legislated path to recover those wages.

Ramping to subsidized plans on the exchanges is close to nonexistent. Cost controls were an afterthought, let to a poorly thought out MLR provision which is an open invitation for increased systemic costs. Universal coverage is silk not in the cards and want even before the Supreme Court hobbled the Medicaid expansion.

No, even under this structure the final product could be very different and this is not the only conceivable structure that isn't a form of single payer or the preexisting system.

Is everyone's brain stuck in weird little boxes, THINK PEOPLE! Stop being herded like sheep into false choices.

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I think a lot of liberals did insist on single payer for all the good it did tularetom Oct 2013 #1
I think he means insist the way the tea party does. Threedifferentones Oct 2013 #2
Yes and we didn't get the public option compromise either n/t hootinholler Oct 2013 #5
We believed Obama when he said he was for it during his 1st campaign. L0oniX Oct 2013 #13
They ALL said it! Every single Dem candidate in the primaries had a public option as CTyankee Oct 2013 #16
Joe Lieberman single handedly stopped it as a last resort insurance Warpy Oct 2013 #27
As a CT resident, I am SO ashamed of what Lieberman did to people like you and CTyankee Oct 2013 #47
His should be a name that lives in infamy Warpy Oct 2013 #48
I am so sorry to hear that! CTyankee Oct 2013 #49
I know people online who were foolish enough to vote for him Warpy Oct 2013 #68
well, if you voted for Gore you had to vote for him... CTyankee Oct 2013 #69
It's amazing how much Paul and I think alike! CTyankee Oct 2013 #3
But the public option edhopper Oct 2013 #4
Yep. The apologists just block that part out Doctor_J Oct 2013 #7
Locked in, how? Nine Oct 2013 #18
You think there is any chance they'll give back a guaranteed 20% of a 3 trillion dollar pie? Doctor_J Oct 2013 #21
"they" don't get whatever they want Nine Oct 2013 #26
Stop, you're killing me Doctor_J Oct 2013 #28
because laws can never, ever be changed, right? (nt) Nine Oct 2013 #30
"If the President had insisted" is the way many fairy tales begin. nt geek tragedy Oct 2013 #35
LOL!!! JoePhilly Oct 2013 #56
"But Obama was *bought off* by the insurance companies" Kolesar Oct 2013 #52
Lieberman, from the state of CT, home of huge insurance companies, pnwmom Oct 2013 #71
Single payer will be possible starting in 2017 Chathamization Oct 2013 #15
I dunno. Good luck in MIsssissippi...and other states where god knows the people CTyankee Oct 2013 #20
The public option wasn't an option because Lieberman opposed it. pnwmom Oct 2013 #70
My fervent belief is that this is a good first step toward single payer etherealtruth Oct 2013 #6
actually it's a step AWAY FROM single-payer Doctor_J Oct 2013 #8
I actually believe (quite possibly naively) that taking away huge unfettered profits etherealtruth Oct 2013 #9
Health care providers will resist zipplewrath Oct 2013 #22
"Our next best hope is going to be nonprofit health insurance cooperatives." etherealtruth Oct 2013 #24
call us when that happens... MisterP Oct 2013 #67
That's also what happens if you sign up for Medicare Part C or D, and even parts A and B Hoyt Oct 2013 #51
Wrong. The ACA is providing money to the states that want to pnwmom Oct 2013 #72
Then we would have ended up with "nothing." nt kelliekat44 Oct 2013 #10
All or nothing rarely works. former9thward Oct 2013 #11
I agree. nt Zorra Oct 2013 #12
This is the exact point I frequently make here. But I am always surprised how many DUers disagree. Nye Bevan Oct 2013 #14
Federalizing health insurance zipplewrath Oct 2013 #23
It's actually a step in the WRONG direction Doctor_J Oct 2013 #29
IMO we're getting Single Payer regardless of the ACA Hippo_Tron Oct 2013 #32
What is this bizarre preoccupation with the BOG? There are like 50 people in it, there are tens of geek tragedy Oct 2013 #37
what's a Ted Cruz leftist? Doctor_J Oct 2013 #40
Ted Cruz Left are those who join with Ted Cruz in engaging in hyperbolic, fact-free geek tragedy Oct 2013 #43
Very well said. Don't expect a reply from Obama haters Pretzel_Warrior Oct 2013 #45
Eh, he's just the symbol for the Democratic party they hate. geek tragedy Oct 2013 #46
True that. The Dem party I hate called itself the Republican Party until about 20 years ago Doctor_J Oct 2013 #61
Yes, you started hating the Democratic party when it started winning national elections geek tragedy Oct 2013 #62
Oh, nice try Doctor_J Oct 2013 #65
So, your theory is that McGovern lost because he was too rightwing? geek tragedy Oct 2013 #66
False choice, I never was a single payer or bust sort but still believe that reform TheKentuckian Oct 2013 #17
it's the current paraphrasing of "would you rather have Palin?" Doctor_J Oct 2013 #42
Krugman gets another one right. BluegrassStateBlues Oct 2013 #19
Paul Krugman: voice of reason. nt Hekate Oct 2013 #25
In 2007 people said it was impossible for a black man to win the oval office... Demo_Chris Oct 2013 #31
So, the Ted Cruz all-or-nothing approach was the right strategy, regardless of outcome? nt geek tragedy Oct 2013 #34
Poor example... Demo_Chris Oct 2013 #38
"insist on x" is inconsistent with "settle for something besides x" geek tragedy Oct 2013 #39
Actually, I hope it succeeds wildly... Demo_Chris Oct 2013 #41
You are obviously not aware how Democrats think about health care. geek tragedy Oct 2013 #44
I will leave you with that as the last word... Demo_Chris Oct 2013 #50
The only way to single payer is for more people BootinUp Oct 2013 #54
Huh? The way to single payer is for the government to offer a competing plan... Demo_Chris Oct 2013 #55
A competing plan will not be forthcoming if ACA is deemed a failure BootinUp Oct 2013 #59
Every liberal should be upset at the errors. But a noisy, obnoxious few are rooting for failure. geek tragedy Oct 2013 #33
Um, didn't they? eom uppityperson Oct 2013 #36
A good public option would have become single payer. D23MIURG23 Oct 2013 #53
Krugman: "Single-payer wasn’t going to happen" JoePhilly Oct 2013 #57
If people would stop fixating on "single payer" Bunnahabhain Oct 2013 #58
Nah. The Public Option that the president campaigned on would have been fine Doctor_J Oct 2013 #63
I disagree Bunnahabhain Oct 2013 #64
Paul K. PasadenaTrudy Oct 2013 #60
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