General Discussion

True Blue Door

(2,969 posts)

165. Being against bargaining is a valid position.

Mon Oct 28, 2013, 10:09 PM

Oct 2013

But when you extrapolate from "willingness to bargain" to "plans to attack Social Security," you're confusing symbolic concessions with real ones. If the President wanted to cut Social Security, he didn't need to use it as a bargaining chip - he would simply cave in and agree to what they demanded, which is what he's constantly being accused of despite it never happening. Let Republicans hold the flag while we hold the country; let them wave around the Bible as a weapon while we preach the Golden Rule; let them futilely grasp every symbol they can get their claws on while we nurture good policies in reality.

If the worst you can accuse President Obama of doing is failing to hold proper symbolic reverence for Social Security, I call that a massive legacy of liberal accomplishment. The President who originated the program sure didn't treat it like some kind of sacred object.

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Is it just me, or do many of the objections to the Obama Administration [View all] MineralMan Oct 2013 OP

Nope. It's not just you! Tarheel_Dem Oct 2013 #1

Thanks! MineralMan Oct 2013 #2

No, it's a stupid OP. woo me with science Oct 2013 #77

1) Yes. AnotherMcIntosh Oct 2013 #83

Not interested in you or your links. Tarheel_Dem Oct 2013 #85

So you're not interested in facts? Rather just be blind to reality? cui bono Oct 2013 #97

Too bad. Lots to learn from them so one can make informed posts. nt Mojorabbit Oct 2013 #168

I make "informed" votes. I vote for Democrats, like the TOS says. Tarheel_Dem Oct 2013 #179

What has that to do with posting on a discussion board? Mojorabbit Oct 2013 #186

I can see the foam at the edges of your mouth Pretzel_Warrior Oct 2013 #91

All I see is a hefty dose of reality. cui bono Oct 2013 #99

Denial is not a river in Egypt. Enthusiast Oct 2013 #108

That is so funny. LMAO! Funny funny funny! Enthusiast Oct 2013 #104

Thank you, this was sorely needed!!! Scuba Oct 2013 #92

I thank you for your thank you post. Enthusiast Oct 2013 #111

+1,000,000 cui bono Oct 2013 #94

Plus fucking one! Enthusiast Oct 2013 #102

no, it's the subjective ravings of someone with an agenda--not promotion of objective reality Pretzel_Warrior Oct 2013 #103

You did not rebut any of the points Mojorabbit Oct 2013 #169

Fact Based Reality is oft fredamae Oct 2013 #119

fact based reality... stillcool Oct 2013 #187

ah, its so nice to see people being ,well,nice DiverDave Oct 2013 #148

Excellent post! Kermitt Gribble Oct 2013 #151

+44 million Excellent post! Thank You solarhydrocan Oct 2013 #156

Nice list of PPR'd trolls. joshcryer Oct 2013 #188

... xchrom Oct 2013 #220

It's definitely not just you dennis4868 Oct 2013 #3

I'm relieved. Thanks. MineralMan Oct 2013 #4

some of it is a matter of a person's disposition Pretzel_Warrior Oct 2013 #5

I suppose you're right. There's always suspicion about MineralMan Oct 2013 #9

hear hear! I don't understand them either. They often sound like seriously unhappy folk Pretzel_Warrior Oct 2013 #18

I don't like to speculate about the motives of DUers. MineralMan Oct 2013 #20

that's why I threw out what i would consider 3 of the most likely possibilities Pretzel_Warrior Oct 2013 #25

That negativity has been going on since the 2008 election, MineralMan Oct 2013 #28

What you said can also be attributed to those who support every single thing Obama does. cui bono Oct 2013 #39

see? I think we've successfully created domains which cover nearly 100% of DU Pretzel_Warrior Oct 2013 #43

What drew you to register last year Mojorabbit Oct 2013 #170

Been here a lot longer than that... Pretzel_Warrior Oct 2013 #174

Oh I was going by the date on your profile Mojorabbit Oct 2013 #175

nope I think pretty much the same thing kydo Oct 2013 #6

Speculative outrage has always been popular around here. JoePhilly Oct 2013 #7

But, if it keeps being wrong, isn't there reason to take another MineralMan Oct 2013 #13

Well, you could post a list of links regarding ... JoePhilly Oct 2013 #21

Cat Food! Whisp Oct 2013 #8

Speaking of which, I'm going to have to run out MineralMan Oct 2013 #10

What? You ran out of cat food? Brigid Oct 2013 #105

You are not alone with that thought, MineralMan. sheshe2 Oct 2013 #11

Thank you very much. MineralMan Oct 2013 #14

K & R, very good post Thinkingabout Oct 2013 #12

Thank you. I know I can count on you to help in 2014! MineralMan Oct 2013 #15

Speculative outrage is the best outrage...nt SidDithers Oct 2013 #16

Well, I'm outraged that not enough people may show up to MineralMan Oct 2013 #19

A repeat of 2010 would be a death knell for the U.S. BluegrassStateBlues Oct 2013 #24

Very true. cui bono Oct 2013 #49

Exactly, because hair-on-fire screeching that "shit might happen" is absolutely irrefutable. 11 Bravo Oct 2013 #52

I saw a UNICORN ... prove I didn't!!! JoePhilly Oct 2013 #71

Gitmo's still open, with torture force-feeding, drone strikes morningfog Oct 2013 #17

You are correct. They were started in the last administration MineralMan Oct 2013 #23

True, so far as it goes . . . markpkessinger Oct 2013 #48

I'm disturbed by the drone policy. I understand the thinking, MineralMan Oct 2013 #51

Agreed . . . markpkessinger Oct 2013 #64

OK. Your objections are warranted. MineralMan Oct 2013 #67

Why would you be disturbed by the drone policy? AnotherMcIntosh Oct 2013 #93

Sure, cause MM asked for "silence". JoePhilly Oct 2013 #26

I never ask for silence, as you know. I'm turning my focus on MineralMan Oct 2013 #30

Exactly my point. If you challange their speculative outrage ... JoePhilly Oct 2013 #33

That is a failure of understanding or a failure to read the actual MineralMan Oct 2013 #37

Agree ... Keep up the good work! JoePhilly Oct 2013 #45

I'm terrified of the far right... not the Obama administration... BluegrassStateBlues Oct 2013 #22

Yes, but we must regain control of the House. MineralMan Oct 2013 #27

Absolutely. BluegrassStateBlues Oct 2013 #29

So we should wait until bad stuff has happened or is set into law before we speak up? cui bono Oct 2013 #31

Of course not. I never do that. I'm always communicating my MineralMan Oct 2013 #32

I didn't say you, personally, did anything. I don't see why you are worried about people speaking cui bono Oct 2013 #44

Indeed. Wilms Oct 2013 #34

I criticized it from the beginning. MineralMan Oct 2013 #38

Please define "beginning" as used here. n/t Wilms Oct 2013 #46

Which implies you did not criticize it before it began. zeemike Oct 2013 #126

Good one, Wilms! Enthusiast Oct 2013 #122

Exactly. Wilms Oct 2013 #163

+1000 eom Purveyor Oct 2013 #137

It is hyperbole to assume some stuff of Obama. joshcryer Oct 2013 #189

"without assuring there would be concessions", LOL! Wilms Oct 2013 #222

Dubya's administration hadn't been in office "for years" before 9/11 Fumesucker Oct 2013 #226

Years before the invasion. joshcryer Oct 2013 #228

It's definitely NOT just you. There is a dedicated cadre infesting this forum ... 11 Bravo Oct 2013 #35

That's how democracy works. Speaking out. cui bono Oct 2013 #59

Riiight. No one is here to shit on a Democratic President. There are no trolls. 11 Bravo Oct 2013 #84

So you're speaking of obvious RW trolls then? I don't understand then. cui bono Oct 2013 #87

I'm so proud! Enthusiast Oct 2013 #127

I think it's more a question of disappointment at lost potential. Pab Sungenis Oct 2013 #36

I was disappointed, too, with the failure of single payer to get much of a hearing. MineralMan Oct 2013 #47

He's learned at least a few lessons. Pab Sungenis Oct 2013 #75

I have to be careful how I respond here Mr.Bill Oct 2013 #40

How's the food at that FEMA camp, by the way? MineralMan Oct 2013 #53

It's all provided by Mr.Bill Oct 2013 #62

Yuck! I'll be careful not to be sent there, then. MineralMan Oct 2013 #65

Obama has done many things that are worth a whole bunch of criticism, so its no wonder progressives quinnox Oct 2013 #41

Along with many things that are worthy of praise. MineralMan Oct 2013 #54

And he has done many things that are worth applause Whisp Oct 2013 #56

I think it's increasingly clear that those who expected any Administration elected in 2008.... YoungDemCA Oct 2013 #42

I'm an old man. I don't expect radically different results MineralMan Oct 2013 #58

These threads usually signal something shitty is about to happen leftstreet Oct 2013 #50

My threads? My threads don't signal anything, except MineralMan Oct 2013 #60

LOL no, not you personally leftstreet Oct 2013 #68

This message was self-deleted by its author Pretzel_Warrior Oct 2013 #95

An ugly personal insult that adds nothing to the discussion. Why do that? Bluenorthwest Oct 2013 #107

I removed it. I hope you'll be chastizing your comrade in arms Pretzel_Warrior Oct 2013 #109

I have no idea what the fuck you mean, and yet it is another cheap pointless insult from Bluenorthwest Oct 2013 #158

Right back at you. You could have PM'd me Pretzel_Warrior Oct 2013 #159

I don't PM rude folks. I also did not alert on you. Could have. Bluenorthwest Oct 2013 #212

It's part of his repertoire. cui bono Oct 2013 #114

IKR!? Rex Oct 2013 #120

I see the negative continuing, if some thinks the negative is so bad and effort is not placed in Thinkingabout Oct 2013 #55

I think you are conflating criticism and warnings with apathy. cui bono Oct 2013 #81

Wrong again. Thinkingabout Oct 2013 #166

And boy howdy, you really proved it didn't you! What a detailed and insightful response. cui bono Oct 2013 #171

Quit guessing about what I think, you are not very good, you miss most all the time, I hope you Thinkingabout Oct 2013 #176

I'm not guessing. I use the term "I think" so as not to sound accusatory. cui bono Oct 2013 #184

Civil manner? When i post one thing and yiur answer is to add your thoughts and say this is Thinkingabout Oct 2013 #207

You have no idea how discussions work, do you? cui bono Oct 2013 #208

Honestly Bobbie Jo Oct 2013 #221

This message was self-deleted by its author cui bono Oct 2013 #225

You're right. My dissatisfaction is about the things that haven't happened. bvar22 Oct 2013 #57

Thanks for your reply. MineralMan Oct 2013 #63

content free response. Why play at being thoughtful cali Oct 2013 #73

Fantastic post bvar! cui bono Oct 2013 #72

"Forewarned is Forearmed".....and that is the answer to the OP KoKo Oct 2013 #79

Rec AnotherMcIntosh Oct 2013 #86

That was a beautiful response right there. Enthusiast Oct 2013 #131

Finish the sentence, please! WHY didn't those protections happen? Liberal_Stalwart71 Oct 2013 #199

Great post, bvar! Kermitt Gribble Oct 2013 #152

+100000000000000 woo me with science Oct 2013 #155

Thanks to the Republicans. joshcryer Oct 2013 #190

Oh? Please inform us exactly HOW the Republicans obstructed: bvar22 Oct 2013 #218

I might. joshcryer Oct 2013 #229

Republican Defenders? bvar22 Oct 2013 #231

The ones blaming Democrats for demonstrably GOP failures? joshcryer Oct 2013 #239

Yes. People responding to facts with unsupported fantisies always strikes a nerve with me. bvar22 Oct 2013 #241

A mixture zipplewrath Oct 2013 #61

Not just you, MinMan. GOTV 2014... Hekate Oct 2013 #66

Some of it is a party problem. progressoid Oct 2013 #69

I'll be away from the thread for a couple of hours. MineralMan Oct 2013 #70

Others will be checking in Hekate Oct 2013 #89

So sorry, perhaps you might prefer a private chat room? cui bono Oct 2013 #100

Oh, cui bono, I didn't know you felt that way about me! Hekate Oct 2013 #130

LOL! MineralMan Oct 2013 #192

Don't forget the cat food. Brigid Oct 2013 #121

NOT you, MM. elleng Oct 2013 #74

Let me get back to you on that after we bomb, Syria lostincalifornia Oct 2013 #76

Funny you mention SS because Obama has put that on the table, it's in his budget. cui bono Oct 2013 #78

Not funny in a good way. AnotherMcIntosh Oct 2013 #96

Not this shit again. What an absurd OP. woo me with science Oct 2013 #80

Slam dunk! cui bono Oct 2013 #82

Thanks for the reality check - looks like this thread sorely needed it! polichick Oct 2013 #115

Gotcher list right HERE! truebluegreen Oct 2013 #144

what's absurd is folks making judgements based on headlines Egnever Oct 2013 #157

Wow! That's twice in one night you have absolutely nailed it. Well done! nt Demo_Chris Oct 2013 #167

So, you're not interested in efforts to elect a Democratic majority MineralMan Oct 2013 #193

Was not the appointment of the virulently right wing Simpson-Bowles Commission primarily to give indepat Oct 2013 #88

Excellent post........nt Enthusiast Oct 2013 #133

Thank, I try, but often get rebuffed in my anti-right-wing tirades indepat Oct 2013 #138

GOTV 2014! K&R jazzimov Oct 2013 #90

I think it has something to do with the solidification of bedrock and the metamorphic state of adirondacker Oct 2013 #98

Many items that have been floated got enough public backlash... glowing Oct 2013 #101

Probably just you and a couple of other people. Rex Oct 2013 #106

correction Pretzel_Warrior Oct 2013 #110

No about 5 or 6 at most. Rex Oct 2013 #112

you've already been proven wrong by preceding thread responses Pretzel_Warrior Oct 2013 #113

Aww did you get a sadz at the truth? Rex Oct 2013 #117

I notice you're the one who keeps revising your number upward Pretzel_Warrior Oct 2013 #124

I know it rubs you raw. Rex Oct 2013 #128

Link? cui bono Oct 2013 #116

IT will just be self-deleted my morning. Rex Oct 2013 #118

why would you say that? Pretzel_Warrior Oct 2013 #123

Tell me who is this 'we' you are always using in your replies, first. Rex Oct 2013 #125

Yeah, why would he say that? I mean your track record isn't so good when it comes to backing up cui bono Oct 2013 #172

I seem to be the only one that will compromise on the numbers. Rex Oct 2013 #224

Fellow Democrats on a Democratic board? bvar22 Oct 2013 #230

It should be illegal for parties to obstruct LittleGirl Oct 2013 #129

Sanity and the truth. Rex Oct 2013 #132

I find how you phrased your title quite interesting cali Oct 2013 #134

Negativity and Progressivism simply don't go together. tridim Oct 2013 #135

Please respond to post number 88. Enthusiast Oct 2013 #136

Sputter sputter how dare you list of links to glenn greenwald and a series of articles that might be byronius Oct 2013 #139

Thanks so much! A great man, indeed. He will be one of the greatest presidents we've ever had... Liberal_Stalwart71 Oct 2013 #181

Thanks for that! MineralMan Oct 2013 #194

Right. We don't know what's in the TPP deal, but that's not a problem stupidicus Oct 2013 #140

To Me It's About Shooting Down Trial Baloons... WillyT Oct 2013 #141

excellent point nt steve2470 Oct 2013 #149

Lazy critics will make stuff up rather than looking deeper for real things to criticize. True Blue Door Oct 2013 #142

Has the Democratic President put cuts to Social Security On-the-Table in budget negotiations? bvar22 Oct 2013 #161

Being against bargaining is a valid position. True Blue Door Oct 2013 #165

Well said! loyalsister Oct 2013 #238

"Willingness to bargain" with Social Security IS attacking Social Security. bvar22 Oct 2013 #240

He DID keep his promise. True Blue Door Oct 2013 #242

It's you. truebluegreen Oct 2013 #143

re: GOTV arely staircase Oct 2013 #145

Terrific! Keep working and we'll win. MineralMan Oct 2013 #195

yeah, that and things that started EC Oct 2013 #146

The outraged will always be outraged. Thor_MN Oct 2013 #147

You're not alone... giftedgirl77 Oct 2013 #150

Ya know, my objections to nuclear war Jackpine Radical Oct 2013 #153

'what do you mean...?' spanone Oct 2013 #154

Ditto for me too! Auntie Bush Oct 2013 #160

Man how I love the trash thread function! Puglover Oct 2013 #162

It's just you, reality happens. Corruption Inc Oct 2013 #164

There is the matter of the drones, but Jamaal510 Oct 2013 #173

Symptoms of ODS for sure. Those who "oh noes!!!" before facts become available. Acting on emotion... Liberal_Stalwart71 Oct 2013 #177

Do you really want people to use the term Obamabot? n/t cui bono Oct 2013 #185

Oh please! It's been used anyway, so be my guest if it makes you feel superior. Liberal_Stalwart71 Oct 2013 #198

Whether or not a term applies or not is not the issue. cui bono Oct 2013 #209

Lack of maturity, like accusing someone of walking blindly behind Obama Liberal_Stalwart71 Oct 2013 #216

I don't really use that term, so I don't know. Why do you think I equated it with ODS? cui bono Oct 2013 #227

No MM ... 1StrongBlackMan Oct 2013 #178

Thank you. I'll keep going. MineralMan Oct 2013 #196

I agree. bravenak Oct 2013 #180

It ain't just you, baby, don't worry. No matter how many nasty, rude comments you get... Liberal_Stalwart71 Oct 2013 #182

Churn Chaos, create confusion, and then negotiate. Baitball Blogger Oct 2013 #183

if the public didn't oppose attacking Syria or Iran, if the public didn't speak out against chained Douglas Carpenter Oct 2013 #191

I'm a long view kind of guy, you see. MineralMan Oct 2013 #197

Democracy works by pressure - Any administration of any party is going to have enormous pressure Douglas Carpenter Oct 2013 #201

Not only do I agree with Douglas, I would add that his view is more encouraging of participation Bluenorthwest Oct 2013 #211

Oh, like liberals don't do the same thing! Courtesy Flush Oct 2013 #200

GOTFV indeed. riqster Oct 2013 #202

That's how I feel, too. MineralMan Oct 2013 #203

That, for me, is the lesson of this century. riqster Oct 2013 #206

Just you Capt. Obvious Oct 2013 #204

OK, you're just wasting my time now. sibelian Oct 2013 #205

Thanks for letting me know... MineralMan Oct 2013 #213

I'm grateful for the Obama administration. Some of their policies, I find objectionable. Autumn Oct 2013 #210

Good post. See, there's a difference between disagreeing with some of his policies Liberal_Stalwart71 Oct 2013 #217

I think most people on DU feel that way. Even the critics Autumn Oct 2013 #219

I agree. Rex Oct 2013 #223

NOT just you MM. I used to lament that all this subversive effort could be used to get out the vote. great white snark Oct 2013 #214

Thanks. We'll win this, I'm sure. MineralMan Oct 2013 #215

It's not just you! CakeGrrl Oct 2013 #232

Thanks so much for kicking this thread. MineralMan Oct 2013 #233

Jon Stewart Syndrome (JSS). randome Oct 2013 #234

Could be. There are probably other reasons for going all MineralMan Oct 2013 #235

Not at all loyalsister Oct 2013 #236

Thanks for getting serious about 2014! MineralMan Oct 2013 #237