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In reply to the discussion: Just for the record, this is NOT the Confederate Flag: [View all]Uncle Joe
(65,214 posts)17. That's the Confederacy's sole purpose because it lost, was frozen in time
and had no chance to evolve.
Make no mistake about it, had the U.S. lost the Revolutionary War, Great Britain; which had outlawed slavery by 1772 would have written the history books and labeled the Patriots as being both treasonous and supporters of slavery.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abolitionism
The last known form of enforced servitude of adults (villeinage) had disappeared in England by the beginning of the 17th century. In a 1569 court case involving Cartwright, who had bought a slave from Russia, the court ruled that English law could not recognise slavery, as it was never established officially. This ruling was overshadowed by later developments. It was upheld in 1700 by the Lord Chief Justice John Holt when he ruled that a slave became free as soon as he arrived in England.[4]
(snip)
African slaves were not bought or sold in London but were brought by masters from other areas. Together with people from other nations, especially non-Christian, Africans were considered foreigners, not able to be English subjects. At the time, England had no naturalization procedure. The African slaves' legal status was unclear until 1772 and Somersett's Case, when the fugitive slave James Somersett forced a legal decision. Somersett had escaped, and his master, Charles Steuart, had him captured and imprisoned on board a ship, intending to ship him to Jamaica to be resold into slavery. While in London, Somersett had been baptised; three godparents issued a writ of habeas corpus. As a result, Lord Mansfield, Chief Justice of the Court of the King's Bench, had to judge whether Somersett's abduction was legal or not under English Common Law. No legislation had ever been passed to establish slavery in England. The case received national attention, and five advocates defended Somersett.
In his judgment of 22 June 1772, Mansfield declared:
"The state of slavery is of such a nature that it is incapable of being introduced on any reasons, moral or political, but only by positive law, which preserves its force long after the reasons, occasions, and time itself from whence it was created, is erased from memory. It is so odious, that nothing can be suffered to support it, but positive law. Whatever inconveniences, therefore, may follow from a decision, I cannot say this case is allowed or approved by the law of England; and therefore the black must be discharged."[8]
Although the exact legal implications of the judgement are unclear when analysed by lawyers, it was generally taken at the time to have determined that slavery did not exist under English common law and was thus prohibited in England.[9] The decision did not apply to other British territories; by then, for example, the American colonies had established slavery by positive laws.[10] The Somersett's case became a significant part of the common law of slavery in the English-speaking world, and it helped launch the movement to abolish slavery.[11]
Howard Dean had to apologize for claiming to represent all Americans including Confederate Flag Wavers, because the forces that wish to divide rather than unite were too powerful.
I'm supporting that we get over this shit and quit giving our power away.
We should be Americans first despite our differences.
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I take an opposing point of view, the flag which flew over the Confederate Military represents
Uncle Joe
Oct 2013
#4
We did discuss it and this link which I posted during that exchange was part of it
Uncle Joe
Oct 2013
#8
You say the U.S. Flag is no comparison, tell that to the Native Americans using your definition
Uncle Joe
Oct 2013
#23
Then I take it we should get rid of the U.S. Flag as well and no doubt give their land
Uncle Joe
Oct 2013
#26
You never answered my question nor explained why that's a false equivalency by your own definition
Uncle Joe
Oct 2013
#35
Did the U.S. commit genocide and take the vast majority of the Continental United States
Uncle Joe
Oct 2013
#43
I have no doubt what the response would be, it would be as you believe, however I see that young
Uncle Joe
Oct 2013
#52
I hate it that RainDog and I disagree on this, she is one of my favorite posters, and I acknowledge
Uncle Joe
Oct 2013
#45
I think you are right, FourScore. The flags should no longer be flown because they no longer
Tuesday Afternoon
Oct 2013
#55
Robert E. Lee was only a step behind Lincoln in his view of slavery and race. n/t
Uncle Joe
Oct 2013
#46
Lee wasn't President and it wasn't just slaves that fought in the war that Lee freed.
Uncle Joe
Oct 2013
#108
That's not the point, the point is what did Lee have control over, he wasn't President. n/t
Uncle Joe
Oct 2013
#112
Lee was a man of many conflicts just as Lincoln, he knew slavery was evil even in 1856
Uncle Joe
Oct 2013
#120
Yes he did but it was more politically and strategically expedient for Lincoln to do so and even
Uncle Joe
Oct 2013
#123
Perhaps and I believe they are withering on the vine but Lee is known for many things aside from
Uncle Joe
Oct 2013
#125
Two points, The Waffen SS was fighting for a dictatorship, the Confederacy was democratically
Uncle Joe
Oct 2013
#34
Both flags "symbolize" something regardless of origin, racist defend flying of both
uponit7771
Oct 2013
#101
If you believe the United States has lily white hands if you just removed the Confederacy, then
Uncle Joe
Oct 2013
#61
Of course the United States is almost exclusively a history of injustices and genocide.
Gravitycollapse
Oct 2013
#64
Well since I'm a liberal and a strong believer in the 1st Amendment, they pretty much have the right
Uncle Joe
Oct 2013
#105
As has hundreds of thousands if not millions of Americans in our multitude of wars.
Uncle Joe
Oct 2013
#60