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In reply to the discussion: Just for the record, this is NOT the Confederate Flag: [View all]Uncle Joe
(65,194 posts)69. This was Lee's view regarding race and slavery.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_E._Lee
Since the end of the Civil War, it has often been suggested Lee was in some sense opposed to slavery. In the period following the war, Lee became a central figure in the Lost Cause interpretation of the war. The argument that Lee had always somehow opposed slavery helped maintain his stature as a symbol of Southern honor and national reconciliation.
The evidence cited in favor of the claim that Lee opposed slavery included his direct statements and his actions before and during the war, including Lee's support of the work by his wife and her mother to liberate slaves and fund their move to Liberia,[50] the success of his wife and daughter in setting up an illegal school for slaves on the Arlington plantation,[51] the freeing of Custis' slaves in 1862, and, as the Confederacy's position in the war became desperate, his petitioning slaveholders in 186465 to allow slaves to volunteer for the Army with manumission offered as a reward for outstanding service.[52][53]
In December 1864 Lee was shown a letter by Louisiana Senator Edward Sparrow, written by General St. John R. Liddell, which noted Lee would be hard-pressed in the interior of Virginia by spring, and the need to consider Patrick Cleburne's plan to emancipate the slaves and put all men in the army who were willing to join. Lee was said to have agreed on all points and desired to get black soldiers, saying "he could make soldiers out of any human being that had arms and legs."[54]
(snip)
AThis [opinion] was the prevailing view among most religious people of Lee's class in the border states. They believed that slavery existed because God willed it and they thought it would end when God so ruled. The time and the means were not theirs to decide, conscious though they were of the ill-effects of Negro slavery on both races. Lee shared these convictions of his neighbors without having come in contact with the worst evils of African bondage. He spent no considerable time in any state south of Virginia from the day he left Fort Pulaski in 1831 until he went to Texas in 1856. All his reflective years had been passed in the North or in the border states. He had never been among the blacks on a cotton or rice plantation. At Arlington, the servants had been notoriously indolent, their master's master. Lee, in short, was only acquainted with slavery at its best, and he judged it accordingly. At the same time, he was under no illusion regarding the aims of the Abolitionists or the effect of their agitation.[56]
This was Lincoln's view regarding race and slavery.
Views on African Americans[edit]Known as the Great Emancipator, Lincoln was a complicated figure who wrestled with his own views on race.[57] Lincoln's primary audience were white voters. Lincoln's views on slavery, race equality, and African American colonization are often intermixed.[57] During the 1858 debates with Stephen Douglas, Lincoln expressed his contemporary view that he believed whites were superior to blacks.[57] Lincoln stated he was against miscegenation and blacks to serve as jurors. While President, as the American Civil War progressed, Lincoln advocated or implemented anti-racist policies including the Emancipation Proclamation and limited suffrage for African Americans.[57] Former slave and leading abolitionist, Frederick Douglass once observed of Lincoln: "In his company, I was never reminded of my humble origin, or of my unpopular color".[58] Douglass praised Lincoln's Emancipation Proclamation; however, he stated that Lincoln "was preeminently the white mans President, entirely devoted to the welfare of white men."[59] Before his presidency, Lincoln lived in a middle-class, racially mixed neighborhood of Springfield, Illinois; one of his long-time neighbors, Jameson Jenkins (who may have been born a slave), had come from North Carolina and was publicly implicated in the 1850s as a Springfield conductor on the underground railroad, sheltering escaped slaves. In 1861, Lincoln called on Jenkins to give him a ride to the train depot, where Lincoln delivered his farewell address before leaving Springfield for the last time.[60] Generations through changing times have interpreted independently Lincoln's views on African Americans.[57]
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I take an opposing point of view, the flag which flew over the Confederate Military represents
Uncle Joe
Oct 2013
#4
We did discuss it and this link which I posted during that exchange was part of it
Uncle Joe
Oct 2013
#8
You say the U.S. Flag is no comparison, tell that to the Native Americans using your definition
Uncle Joe
Oct 2013
#23
Then I take it we should get rid of the U.S. Flag as well and no doubt give their land
Uncle Joe
Oct 2013
#26
You never answered my question nor explained why that's a false equivalency by your own definition
Uncle Joe
Oct 2013
#35
Did the U.S. commit genocide and take the vast majority of the Continental United States
Uncle Joe
Oct 2013
#43
I have no doubt what the response would be, it would be as you believe, however I see that young
Uncle Joe
Oct 2013
#52
I hate it that RainDog and I disagree on this, she is one of my favorite posters, and I acknowledge
Uncle Joe
Oct 2013
#45
I think you are right, FourScore. The flags should no longer be flown because they no longer
Tuesday Afternoon
Oct 2013
#55
Robert E. Lee was only a step behind Lincoln in his view of slavery and race. n/t
Uncle Joe
Oct 2013
#46
Lee wasn't President and it wasn't just slaves that fought in the war that Lee freed.
Uncle Joe
Oct 2013
#108
That's not the point, the point is what did Lee have control over, he wasn't President. n/t
Uncle Joe
Oct 2013
#112
Lee was a man of many conflicts just as Lincoln, he knew slavery was evil even in 1856
Uncle Joe
Oct 2013
#120
Yes he did but it was more politically and strategically expedient for Lincoln to do so and even
Uncle Joe
Oct 2013
#123
Perhaps and I believe they are withering on the vine but Lee is known for many things aside from
Uncle Joe
Oct 2013
#125
Two points, The Waffen SS was fighting for a dictatorship, the Confederacy was democratically
Uncle Joe
Oct 2013
#34
Both flags "symbolize" something regardless of origin, racist defend flying of both
uponit7771
Oct 2013
#101
If you believe the United States has lily white hands if you just removed the Confederacy, then
Uncle Joe
Oct 2013
#61
Of course the United States is almost exclusively a history of injustices and genocide.
Gravitycollapse
Oct 2013
#64
Well since I'm a liberal and a strong believer in the 1st Amendment, they pretty much have the right
Uncle Joe
Oct 2013
#105
As has hundreds of thousands if not millions of Americans in our multitude of wars.
Uncle Joe
Oct 2013
#60