General Discussion

Uncle Joe

(64,734 posts)

105. Well since I'm a liberal and a strong believer in the 1st Amendment, they pretty much have the right

Wed Oct 30, 2013, 02:01 PM

Oct 2013

to do that, but that in itself doesn't grant the flag power.

http://dictionary.reference.com/

lib·er·al/ˈlɪbərəl, ˈlɪbrəl/ Show Spelled [lib-er-uhl, lib-ruhl] Show IPA
adjective
1. favorable to progress or reform, as in political or religious affairs.
2. ( often initial capital letter ) noting or pertaining to a political party advocating measures of progressive political reform.
3. of, pertaining to, based on, or advocating liberalism, especially the freedom of the individual and governmental guarantees of individual rights and liberties.
4. favorable to or in accord with concepts of maximum individual freedom possible, especially as guaranteed by law and secured by governmental protection of civil liberties.
5. favoring or permitting freedom of action, especially with respect to matters of personal belief or expression: a liberal policy toward dissident artists and writers.

Of course people can criticize them as well, that's also part of the 1st Amendment.

That begs the question what is the power of the Confederate Flag, is it to stir hatred and fear or as some contend to remember courage and great sacrifice?

I have no doubt there is both.

A final question does hatred feed on hatred?

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Just for the record, this is NOT the Confederate Flag: [View all] Stinky The Clown Oct 2013 OP

They're either celebrating the Civil War Pab Sungenis Oct 2013 #1

Probably both gopiscrap Oct 2013 #2

So we should refer to it as the "Confederate Battle Flag"? SharonAnn Oct 2013 #117

Or...they just support White Supremacy. VanillaRhapsody Oct 2013 #3

I've wondered the same thing... n/t ReRe Oct 2013 #81

I take an opposing point of view, the flag which flew over the Confederate Military represents Uncle Joe Oct 2013 #4

But it celebrates a shameful legacy RainDog Oct 2013 #6

We did discuss it and this link which I posted during that exchange was part of it Uncle Joe Oct 2013 #8

Yes. But that no longer matters RainDog Oct 2013 #11

In the big scheme of things, this is what symbols mean. Uncle Joe Oct 2013 #13

You can't compare the two flags RainDog Oct 2013 #14

That's the Confederacy's sole purpose because it lost, was frozen in time Uncle Joe Oct 2013 #17

Yes. Unite RainDog Oct 2013 #19

You say the U.S. Flag is no comparison, tell that to the Native Americans using your definition Uncle Joe Oct 2013 #23

We should definitely acknowledge that genocide RainDog Oct 2013 #25

Then I take it we should get rid of the U.S. Flag as well and no doubt give their land Uncle Joe Oct 2013 #26

LOL RainDog Oct 2013 #28

You never answered my question nor explained why that's a false equivalency by your own definition Uncle Joe Oct 2013 #35

The entire existence of the U.S. RainDog Oct 2013 #38

Did the U.S. commit genocide and take the vast majority of the Continental United States Uncle Joe Oct 2013 #43

You simply refuse to acknowledge what is history RainDog Oct 2013 #47

It's not just whites in the South Uncle Joe Oct 2013 #40

take a poll about that RainDog Oct 2013 #49

I have no doubt what the response would be, it would be as you believe, however I see that young Uncle Joe Oct 2013 #52

Why would anyone want to honor the death of someone who died pnwmom Oct 2013 #18

Why would anyone want to honor the death of someone that wiped out Uncle Joe Oct 2013 #20

I'm a Southerner and Uncle Joe is right. But so is RainDog. FourScore Oct 2013 #39

I hate it that RainDog and I disagree on this, she is one of my favorite posters, and I acknowledge Uncle Joe Oct 2013 #45

I think you are right, FourScore. The flags should no longer be flown because they no longer Tuesday Afternoon Oct 2013 #55

The schools are named after the Generals, and they were fighting for slavery. pnwmom Oct 2013 #41

Robert E. Lee was only a step behind Lincoln in his view of slavery and race. n/t Uncle Joe Oct 2013 #46

More like a mile. n/t pnwmom Oct 2013 #63

This was Lee's view regarding race and slavery. Uncle Joe Oct 2013 #69

So, as the South began to lose the war, he thought letting the slaves pnwmom Oct 2013 #82

"Before and during the war" Uncle Joe Oct 2013 #103

The "evidence cited in favor of the claim" -- it is only a claim. pnwmom Oct 2013 #107

Lee wasn't President and it wasn't just slaves that fought in the war that Lee freed. Uncle Joe Oct 2013 #108

And how many slaves did Custis have? n/t pnwmom Oct 2013 #111

That's not the point, the point is what did Lee have control over, he wasn't President. n/t Uncle Joe Oct 2013 #112

If the South had won the war he could have ended up with the job. n/t pnwmom Oct 2013 #113

I agree. n/t Uncle Joe Oct 2013 #115

I just found something else that lends a different perspective pnwmom Oct 2013 #116

Lee was a man of many conflicts just as Lincoln, he knew slavery was evil even in 1856 Uncle Joe Oct 2013 #120

Not "just as Lincoln." Lincoln worked to free the slaves; Lee led a rebellion pnwmom Oct 2013 #122

Yes he did but it was more politically and strategically expedient for Lincoln to do so and even Uncle Joe Oct 2013 #123

But we shouldn't be naming schools after Lee on the basis that pnwmom Oct 2013 #124

Perhaps and I believe they are withering on the vine but Lee is known for many things aside from Uncle Joe Oct 2013 #125

Are you aware that after the war, Lee opposed giving pnwmom Oct 2013 #129

Are you aware, that's not too far removed from what Lincoln thought? Uncle Joe Oct 2013 #130

Well, I'm sure the Waffen SS had some lads who sacrificed geek tragedy Oct 2013 #29

exactly RainDog Oct 2013 #32

Two points, The Waffen SS was fighting for a dictatorship, the Confederacy was democratically Uncle Joe Oct 2013 #34

For the purpose of enslaving people RainDog Oct 2013 #36

I don't defend the Confederate Flag, I defend unity of the American People. Uncle Joe Oct 2013 #48

such bullshit. RainDog Oct 2013 #51

It's true whether you wish to believe it or not. Uncle Joe Oct 2013 #54

so you support flying the swastika, too RainDog Oct 2013 #56

We're not part of Germany, we're the United States of America. Uncle Joe Oct 2013 #57

The confederate flag is a signifier RainDog Oct 2013 #70

I agree symbols are signifiers Uncle Joe Oct 2013 #72

yes. many whites have been racist RainDog Oct 2013 #73

The only point of that pic was to show how symbols can be used or misused. Uncle Joe Oct 2013 #80

The point of the pic was to dismiss the issue of one particular flag RainDog Oct 2013 #132

In one breath you claim not to care much about flags, but obviously you do. Uncle Joe Oct 2013 #133

no. you are lying about what I said RainDog Oct 2013 #135

This is what you said. Uncle Joe Oct 2013 #136

Both flags "symbolize" something regardless of origin, racist defend flying of both uponit7771 Oct 2013 #101

I agree, uponit. n/t Uncle Joe Oct 2013 #109

Symbolic power is transcendental. Gravitycollapse Oct 2013 #59

If you believe the United States has lily white hands if you just removed the Confederacy, then Uncle Joe Oct 2013 #61

Of course the United States is almost exclusively a history of injustices and genocide. Gravitycollapse Oct 2013 #64

It sounds to me like we're in agreement. Uncle Joe Oct 2013 #66

Or fly it... or display it... or celebrate it. LanternWaste Oct 2013 #84

Well since I'm a liberal and a strong believer in the 1st Amendment, they pretty much have the right Uncle Joe Oct 2013 #105

Well, the Nazis were also too civilized to own slaves. geek tragedy Oct 2013 #37

The Nazis did own slaves they worked them to death in concentration camps. Uncle Joe Oct 2013 #50

Thank you geek JustAnotherGen Oct 2013 #74

+1 uponit7771 Oct 2013 #99

the whole SS thing is confused by many people johnnyrak88 Oct 2013 #118

Those 300K died fighting for the wrong side. Gravitycollapse Oct 2013 #58

As has hundreds of thousands if not millions of Americans in our multitude of wars. Uncle Joe Oct 2013 #60

Many Americans have died fighting on the wrong side... Gravitycollapse Oct 2013 #62

I totally agree, Gravitycollapse. n/t Uncle Joe Oct 2013 #65

I think you're dealing in Neo-Confederate propaganda on this thread. Paladin Oct 2013 #86

I'm dealing in history, are you suggesting the U.S. has always been on right side of its' many wars? Uncle Joe Oct 2013 #104

How did they know? johnnyrak88 Oct 2013 #119

Well I see the second one almost everyday kydo Oct 2013 #5

"celebrating only the Civil War, not some cultural heritage of the Confederacy" arcane1 Oct 2013 #7

Those and that yellow Garden flag have become a symbol of hatred. Hoyt Oct 2013 #9

I fail to see what there is to celebrate about the Civil War. dflprincess Oct 2013 #10

If it was truly about celebrating southern heritage and pride LostOne4Ever Oct 2013 #12

Meh. Adam-Bomb Oct 2013 #15

tell that to Jews who see a swastika RainDog Oct 2013 #21

I'm Southern, too, and the flag does have meaning Art_from_Ark Oct 2013 #22

Tell that to your average African American. kestrel91316 Oct 2013 #31

+1 JustAnotherGen Oct 2013 #75

It's threatening JustAnotherGen Oct 2013 #77

I agree Marrah_G Oct 2013 #96

wow... "who cares about folks flying that flag".. freakin wow uponit7771 Oct 2013 #100

They all represent the enemies of America, and celebrate racism. baldguy Oct 2013 #16

Graphically speaking, the battle flag is quite well done. 1000words Oct 2013 #24

An interesting topic, the graphic qualities of flags... Eleanors38 Oct 2013 #33

They are all the flag of treason, slavery, and white geek tragedy Oct 2013 #27

They're just displaying their racism. That's all it's about. kestrel91316 Oct 2013 #30

I like to call it the Brainless Banner struggle4progress Oct 2013 #42

The present use of the rectangular version of the battle flag... Deep13 Oct 2013 #44

It's not the flag, it's the SYMBOLISM and you know it. LaydeeBug Oct 2013 #53

Mississippi state flag WhaTHellsgoingonhere Oct 2013 #67

Eh? JustAnotherGen Oct 2013 #79

And neo-Nazi's tend fly the Confederate flags. joshcryer Oct 2013 #68

Well, one thing's for sure.............. thelordofhell Oct 2013 #71

generations hvae passed and people are still arguing Niceguy1 Oct 2013 #76

I am not touchy about flags, and consider it a freedom of speech issue quinnox Oct 2013 #78

+1 Go Vols Oct 2013 #121

Close enough. n/t eShirl Oct 2013 #83

My thoughts exactly. Iggo Oct 2013 #85

"Celebrating the Civil War" annabanana Oct 2013 #87

look at these comments d_r Oct 2013 #88

The only one that mattered. JNelson6563 Oct 2013 #89

Beat me to it! SeattleVet Oct 2013 #126

Flying any of those flags at all is a dick thing to do. Aristus Oct 2013 #90

I don't fly my Confederate flag but I still have a very old one. In_The_Wind Oct 2013 #91

I have an old pic of my Dad from when he was about 20 or so. Aristus Oct 2013 #92

The one I have is the Confederate Battle Flag. In_The_Wind Oct 2013 #95

I wonder what would happen if... mockmonkey Oct 2013 #93

And its not the Stars and Bars either. aikoaiko Oct 2013 #94

It may not be the Confederate flag, but it is the Confederate swastika. bermudat Oct 2013 #97

It's the adopted flag of racists... Iggo Oct 2013 #98

+1, period.... end of story uponit7771 Oct 2013 #102

seems to me johnnyrak88 Oct 2013 #106

My favorite story of the Confederate Battle flag - hedgehog Oct 2013 #110

Yawn. Filing in the "Useless Discussions" Folder yellowcanine Oct 2013 #114

Does it really matter? AFAIC, the only use for ALL those flags. . . DinahMoeHum Oct 2013 #127

WRONG, sir, you are WRONG. THIS is the confederate flag: xfundy Oct 2013 #128

Because it's hard walking around with a burning cross. RagAss Oct 2013 #131

No matter what, they are all loser flags! B Calm Oct 2013 #134