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Rassah

(167 posts)
47. Let me know if this is libertarian or not
Thu Oct 31, 2013, 09:01 PM
Oct 2013

Big banks are deciding more and more that low-income families and neighborhoods are too risky, and not worth doing business with. Due to this, families are routinely denied from opening even basic bank accounts, and some towns even have banks closing branches and abandoning people completely. My in-laws live in a town in western Maryland, and their bank branch closed down a couple of years ago, so getting a checking account means driving far, with your fingers closed. Since our economy is being based more and more online, with credit and debit cards, this means that these people are basically blocked from being able to participate. Here in west Baltimore, the only option for these people is to buy prepaid VISA debit cards at the local WalMart at ridiculous fees. Not only are the poor restricted from participating with the rest of us, but the poor get poorer just for trying. And that's just in US. Many countries in the world are just plain blocked by VISA, MasterCard, PayPal, etc, so the people here have no access to that system, and often no access to banks at all. Bitcoin is simple enough to run on a cell phone (even over SMS), to open an account all you need to do is download the app or sign up with a free online service, and you instantly get access to a secure private bank account, with a possibility to buy and sell anything online from anywhere in the world. And the transaction fees are typically fractions of a penny. It will very likely be an enormous equalizer for poor families in US, and 3rd world countries around the world.

I am gay, but my husband and I are lucky enough to live in a state that recognizes our marriage, so if anything happens to one of us, there won't be any issues with inheritance. Many other same-sex families around the country are not so lucky. So if one of their partners dies, their join ownership of their money and stuff isn't recognized by anyone. There have been plenty of horror stories about in-laws clearing out the survivor's bank accounts, because they claim that the survivor was just a friend, and thus have no legal right to anything that belonged to their dead partner. Bitcoin allows two or more people to establish joint accounts that are only spendable by those parties. In other words, the law doesn't matter at that point; if the gay couple decides to own a Bitcoin account jointly, only they have access to the funds in the account. Not because of a legal recognition, but because of the way the software is encoded. Maths. No amount of enraged in-laws yelling at it can change a math function. So in this way, Bitcoin allows same-sex couples, or any partners, really, to establish joint ownership of wealth that doesn't require any security but themselves, and can not be challenged by any outsiders who may disapprove of the relationship.

If you are an illegal immigrant (whether you snuck in to work on a field, or were snuck in by your parents without you knowing it), opening a bank account is pretty much impossible. So your only option is to get paid in cash, deal with cash, carry cash, and attempt to safely store cash (like low income families above). And if you want to send some money home to support your family, even if you are here legally, you have to use an international money transfer/remittance service, which costs 10% to 25%. Seriously, imagine having to give up a quarter of your earned income to some big bank, just so your family doesn't starve back home. Using Bitcoin, immigrants can receive payments on accounts on their phone (or even on paper, since to receive coins you just need an address, which is just a long string of characters). There are no issues with secure storage, since you can easily password protect your money. And as for sending money back home, you can send bitcoins themselves to your family anywhere in the world (for something like ¢1), and they can exchange it for their local currency for about 1% (there are exchanges in Mexico, Argentina, Brazil, China, Africa, and many more places). So, stand in line, give up cash, pay 10% to 25% fee, and hope the teller doesn't rip you off (not like you can sue them if you are illegal), or pick an address from an address book, enter amount, hit send, and have them withdraw it into their bank account, or pick it up as cash, for about 1%.

Or how about raising money for charity. Have you heard stories about PayPal and KickStarter shutting down charity fundraisers and seizing all the donated money, because the spur of the moment "Oh sh** this family needs help!" requests didn't file proper paperwork? Charities that use Bitcoin for donations can get funds from anywhere in the world, and no one can seize them (though please make sure you're not donating to a scam. P.S. If you are donating anything but blood to Red Cross, you are donating to a scam)

Plus there are things like donating to pro-democracy groups that have been banned from accepting donations by either dictator governments or corporations that don't want to look bad, being able to use it to give a big F U to crony corporations that paid off republicans to pass pro.monopoly regulations (large corporations push for more regulations, because these corporations are the only ones able to comply, thus keeping small competitors out, and tricking the government into giving them monopoly power), etc etc etc.

Bitcoin is just a tool. A tool is only what it's users make it to be. Libertarians are using it for their purposes. Progressives can use it for their own. In the end, whether Bitcoin is Libertarian or Progressive only depends on who uses it more.

Recommendations

0 members have recommended this reply (displayed in chronological order):

Have you made a profit holding bitcoins, and if so have you paid taxes on the profits? n/t PoliticAverse Oct 2013 #1
If anything that would be capital gains tax. dipsydoodle Oct 2013 #3
Capital gains would mean Rassah Oct 2013 #15
I have made a gain... Rassah Oct 2013 #14
Explain to me like I'm five, exactly how bitcoins are generated/created. StrictlyRockers Oct 2013 #2
*Holds up hand*. I want to be 5 too. Whisp Oct 2013 #4
Psht, no way, man! I already called five. StrictlyRockers Oct 2013 #6
okay, 5 and Three Quarters then! Whisp Oct 2013 #7
I'll take four - enlightenment Oct 2013 #9
+1 :) n/t OneGrassRoot Oct 2013 #8
This is a bit long... Rassah Oct 2013 #17
THAT Sissyk Oct 2013 #55
I'm baffled by bitcoin mining - what sort of math problems are done to create bitcoins, and WHY? kestrel91316 Oct 2013 #5
One wonders.. sendero Oct 2013 #10
Moore's law is kept in check... Rassah Oct 2013 #20
Well... sendero Oct 2013 #34
Moore's law IDemo Oct 2013 #44
The more fundamental problem seems to be the question of why a bitcoin should have any value at all? PoliticAverse Oct 2013 #30
Yep Rassah Oct 2013 #35
Mining is actually a method of securing accounting entrees... Rassah Oct 2013 #19
So all the calculations are a part of a massive program for making bitcoins theft-proof or kestrel91316 Oct 2013 #25
I'm too buys Larping Capt. Obvious Oct 2013 #11
I do Rassah Oct 2013 #48
You mean, other than it's a ponzi scheme backed by nothing? n/t pnwmom Oct 2013 #12
Bitcoin is not a Ponzi Rassah Oct 2013 #21
Wait - while obtaining your Finance degrees, Charles Ponzi never came up in any of your classes?? REP Oct 2013 #24
Of course he has Rassah Oct 2013 #42
Perhaps Finance degrees should require more writing classes REP Oct 2013 #49
This message was self-deleted by its author Rassah Oct 2013 #57
I'm not the one who asked REP Oct 2013 #65
This message was self-deleted by its author Rassah Nov 2013 #70
Bitcoin and computer viruses seem to go hand in hand. Rex Oct 2013 #13
Very true Rassah Oct 2013 #22
Wow that last bit was absolutely fascinating. Kurska Oct 2013 #23
Too early in development... Rassah Oct 2013 #36
'program "Do no evil" into the core of a corporation' JEdwards8th Oct 2013 #50
Aren't you worried that an unofficial currency such as this promotes market anarchism? KY5 Oct 2013 #16
I have had to rethink about what is important to focus on... Rassah Oct 2013 #28
Your IP classes did not serve you well. Ms. Toad Nov 2013 #82
Thank you for the info Rassah Nov 2013 #89
Not surprised you're not sure what to think about it - Ms. Toad Nov 2013 #93
My business degrees were mostly focused on finance, accounting, and econ- Rassah Nov 2013 #102
With patents, at least, Ms. Toad Nov 2013 #108
I meant impossible to defend, Rassah Nov 2013 #109
Actually, the patent trolls are thriving Ms. Toad Nov 2013 #110
Bitcoin's a scam dreamed up by Ron Paul disciples. Arkana Oct 2013 #18
It's a Libertarian dream -- freedom from the Federal reserve. pnwmom Oct 2013 #26
Let me know if this is libertarian or not Rassah Oct 2013 #47
Bitboin is just smoke and mirrors. n/t pnwmom Oct 2013 #51
Might be worth pointing out the storied history of bitcoin, as well. JEdwards8th Oct 2013 #56
Sounds like a scam to me. Skidmore Oct 2013 #27
I can try Rassah Oct 2013 #29
Who maintains this trustworthy, indestructible database. And who created it, and how do we know madinmaryland Oct 2013 #31
Everyone Rassah Oct 2013 #38
Nope. Still sounds like funny money to me. Skidmore Oct 2013 #32
Better try... Rassah Oct 2013 #39
Thank you for that explanation and this thread ...... oldhippie Oct 2013 #46
You're welcome! Rassah Oct 2013 #53
Oh, I like you. EOF JEdwards8th Oct 2013 #58
No computer, no money. And how do I use bitcoin to fill my gas tank or buy a donut? MADem Oct 2013 #59
You are right, it does depend on support Rassah Oct 2013 #63
I lived in Italy for seven or so years. Great place. MADem Oct 2013 #64
If bitcoins were just an alternative currency Rassah Oct 2013 #66
Like tulip mania....the tulips didn't hold their value, but they're still a cool flower... nt MADem Oct 2013 #67
It also depends on continued appreciation which seems pretty risky at this point Major Nikon Nov 2013 #84
Actually... Rassah Nov 2013 #91
Interesting that you express that value in dollars MattBaggins Nov 2013 #94
I am sorry, I have made an assumption... Rassah Nov 2013 #103
Except there's no equity in a bitcoin Major Nikon Nov 2013 #101
Bitcoin has value, an exchange rate, and will likely be treated as foreign currency Rassah Nov 2013 #104
It's not that one cant explain it clearly... TampaAnimusVortex Oct 2013 #33
this may be a stupid question grasswire Oct 2013 #37
Similar Rassah Oct 2013 #41
Is it true that there is a preset limit to the number of bitcoins that can be created? grantcart Oct 2013 #40
Yes, it's true Rassah Oct 2013 #43
What a great way to stifle growth MattBaggins Nov 2013 #95
You don't really want growth in money... Rassah Nov 2013 #105
Your explanation is overly complicated and lacking the broad overview...here I fixed it for you Drew Richards Oct 2013 #45
Saved me the trouble in finding the link. Ruby the Liberal Oct 2013 #52
there are a lot of different explanations... Rassah Oct 2013 #60
An interesting point. JEdwards8th Oct 2013 #61
This isn't about Haystack-style back door access and/or decryption? Ruby the Liberal Oct 2013 #54
Nah, the calculations are Rassah Oct 2013 #62
Thank you for this fascinating topic, and for your efforts in helping folks like me understand this 2banon Oct 2013 #68
Glad to explain Rassah Nov 2013 #72
thanks so much for clarifying... but one more question..:) 2banon Nov 2013 #73
It itself would grow in value Rassah Nov 2013 #74
omg.. should have gotten in when i first heard of bitcoin a few years ago 2banon Nov 2013 #75
If you really want to invest... Rassah Nov 2013 #76
that's good to know.. 2banon Nov 2013 #77
Easiest place I use is Rassah Nov 2013 #78
Bitcoin Primer for Dummies.. 2banon Nov 2013 #79
i don't know what kind of questions people might have Rassah Nov 2013 #80
That's important to know.. 2banon Nov 2013 #85
It's just a TOS thing, not a legal one Rassah Nov 2013 #87
thanks! 2banon Nov 2013 #92
Your best choice is to open a bitcoin wallet, create an anonymous account on websites MattBaggins Nov 2013 #96
I haven't received a PM from anyone yet.. 2banon Nov 2013 #98
No you would not have to MattBaggins Nov 2013 #99
I'll consider your perspective and suggestion. 2banon Nov 2013 #100
FYI... Rassah Nov 2013 #106
I have never heard of bitcoin before. LWolf Nov 2013 #69
Using correct terms,.. Rassah Nov 2013 #71
Are you worried at all about the possible advent of quantum computing? LAGC Nov 2013 #81
It's not a big problem, apparently Rassah Nov 2013 #88
Would it be correct to say that Bitcoin is the very definition of a Fiat Currency? solarhydrocan Nov 2013 #83
Fiat money lacks intrinsic value davidpdx Nov 2013 #86
I would say so... Rassah Nov 2013 #90
When other groups start the whole mining over again MattBaggins Nov 2013 #97
Other groups already have Rassah Nov 2013 #107
Let's kick this back up since Bitcoin is in the news... icymist Nov 2013 #111
He made a really stupid mistake Rassah Nov 2013 #112
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