General Discussion

lumberjack_jeff

(33,224 posts)

37. The question posed was "what does IT mean", not "what do THEY mean".

Reply to muriel_volestrangler (Reply #35)

Fri Nov 1, 2013, 07:21 PM

Nov 2013

I've never met anyone who has carefully, rigorously and honestly examined all the facts, evaluated the weights of the various arguments, considered the biases and motivations of the people giving them information and logically concluded that "the truth about Iraq's role in 9-11 must lie somewhere between what Dick Cheney and Dennis Kucinich were saying".

One says "the truth must lie somewhere in the middle" because they are lazy and prefer to avoid conflict.

On a political spectrum, if correct lies at one end and incorrect lies at the other, all the points between are wrong to varying degrees.

Labeling is a vexing thing. To me "moderate" means one universal thing; "The ideological position that will allow me to claim affinity with the winners regardless of what happens".

Edit history

Please sign in to view edit histories.

Recommendations

0 members have recommended this reply (displayed in chronological order):

213 replies

= new reply since forum marked as read

Highlight:

What does it really MEAN when people label themselves as political "moderates"? [View all] Ken Burch Nov 2013 OP

Wow. Really? Pretzel_Warrior Nov 2013 #1

Not an ideologist...but not closed off, either. Ken Burch Nov 2013 #4

incrementalism... would love examples of that actually working, b/c nashville_brook Nov 2013 #198

"Ideologist"? Scootaloo Nov 2013 #107

Here you go Pretzel_Warrior Nov 2013 #110

Not sure it's valid to assume those who don't label themselves "ideologue" or "Ideologist" Ken Burch Nov 2013 #187

OK..."ideologue". Ken Burch Nov 2013 #186

In my experience, it makes them ill-informed and oblivious. Chan790 Nov 2013 #2

I identify as a moderate. I don't consider myself "low information". Throd Nov 2013 #5

There's exceptions to every rule. n/t Chan790 Nov 2013 #8

But then you don't answer the OP's question either. What do you mean when you say you Bluenorthwest Nov 2013 #9

My views are not overly far left nor far right, hence "moderate". Throd Nov 2013 #12

Why not just say 'it's a term of art meaning whatever you wish'? Bluenorthwest Nov 2013 #15

Mostly the views of the socially conservative Moral Majority types are "overly far right". Throd Nov 2013 #19

Is that the same thing as a "Reagan Democrat"? bvar22 Nov 2013 #38

I never understood the term "Reagan Democrat" either. Throd Nov 2013 #39

Perhaps defining "moderate" is going to be vague by nature ZombieHorde Nov 2013 #119

Please list a few "far left" and "far right" views you don't subscribe to. nt. Warren Stupidity Nov 2013 #183

A number of people in this thread have equated radicalism with violence and repression. Ken Burch Nov 2013 #208

My point is that we do in fact have a major political party advocating far right positions. Warren Stupidity Nov 2013 #209

You are right about our far right major party. Ken Burch Nov 2013 #210

There is an insidious split-the-difference, false equivalence epidemic BlueStreak Nov 2013 #67

Splitting the difference nearly always is nosensical with republicans because their goal posts GoneFishin Nov 2013 #155

SO TRUE!!!!!!! La Lioness Priyanka Nov 2013 #193

Sure thing Rush Egnever Nov 2013 #199

Yes - a euphemism for who use common sense. dipsydoodle Nov 2013 #3

For me, it means "cautious." raging moderate Nov 2013 #6

That just sounds fear based, craven rather than cautious. Bluenorthwest Nov 2013 #13

Attacking moderates for being moderate is what extremists do Pretzel_Warrior Nov 2013 #16

So criticizing moderates is now akin to killing them? Luminous Animal Nov 2013 #18

Just providing an example of its logical conclusion Pretzel_Warrior Nov 2013 #22

Um no. It is not a logical conclusion that radical ideas result in the killing Luminous Animal Nov 2013 #28

I said extreme. And they are extreme. Like the antiwar folks in 60's Pretzel_Warrior Nov 2013 #29

Perhaps I misunderstood what you meant by the word "attacking"... Luminous Animal Nov 2013 #36

Dr King was anti war too. Bluenorthwest Nov 2013 #158

"like the anti-war" folks in the 60's..??? 2banon Nov 2013 #200

way to to. obviously was referring to the EXTREME ones who used violence Pretzel_Warrior Nov 2013 #203

yes, I read it. This is what you said.. 2banon Nov 2013 #206

I don't think it is moderate to say 'we know what is right, but let's wait' Bluenorthwest Nov 2013 #32

I actually remember reading the argument for gradualism in Life magazine zeemike Nov 2013 #59

Of course the gradualists here refuse to address what Martin said and instead they make Bluenorthwest Nov 2013 #157

Well nothing has really changed. zeemike Nov 2013 #159

MLK was classified as a Terrorist courtesy J.E.Hoover and the National Security Establishment 2banon Nov 2013 #201

Very simple seveneyes Nov 2013 #7

No. You have confused "The Moderates" with "The Hippies". bvar22 Nov 2013 #168

If they want money or your vote, it means that they consider everyone else to be an extremist AnotherMcIntosh Nov 2013 #10

It depends on who you ask. SolutionisSolidarity Nov 2013 #11

Funny thing is, Rush Limbaugh says the same thing about moderates. Throd Nov 2013 #24

Well, I try not to be a hypocrite. raging moderate Nov 2013 #14

Wrong, it means they are anti-extremist intaglio Nov 2013 #17

I agree that it means anti-extremist. Curmudgeoness Nov 2013 #54

Well said, intaglio Isoldeblue Nov 2013 #58

Good discussion. The official framing of left, right, & center are phony, & function as a tool to... Faryn Balyncd Nov 2013 #20

Huh? Unbelievable what passes for logic here Pretzel_Warrior Nov 2013 #26

You are assuming that politics is one dimensional Fumesucker Nov 2013 #51

Correct. The assumption that political views can be accurately represented linearly, and that views Faryn Balyncd Nov 2013 #91

Well Stated! 2banon Nov 2013 #202

You have a point. Faryn Balyncd Nov 2013 #143

Excellent post. Thanks. n/t Laelth Nov 2013 #147

I don't think there's any merit in creating a new consensus anywhere between the poles. lumberjack_jeff Nov 2013 #177

Agree. Faryn Balyncd Nov 2013 #182

I grew up very poor. Caution is how we survived. raging moderate Nov 2013 #21

At one time "conservative" didn't have such negative connotations. lumberjack_jeff Nov 2013 #40

No really that is not right. Warren Stupidity Nov 2013 #184

Caution is fine. And I appreciate you sharing your experiences, truly. Ken Burch Nov 2013 #43

It means what Humpty Dumpty meant Fumesucker Nov 2013 #23

Or it depends on the issue, and the strength of their feelings on the matter IronLionZion Nov 2013 #25

in the sane and rational universe - a moderate or a centrist would be someone who neither embraces Douglas Carpenter Nov 2013 #27

You have described well what it should mean, at least in the context of right/left pol. ideology Dragonfli Nov 2013 #65

Personally, I'm not sure what to call myself FrodosPet Nov 2013 #30

It means that they... lumberjack_jeff Nov 2013 #31

You got me. I'm a stupid, spineless creature desperate for companionship. Throd Nov 2013 #33

If you say so. lumberjack_jeff Nov 2013 #34

I think your answers (a) and (b) fail muriel_volestrangler Nov 2013 #35

The question posed was "what does IT mean", not "what do THEY mean". lumberjack_jeff Nov 2013 #37

"...when people label themselves as political "moderates"?" muriel_volestrangler Nov 2013 #46

What was the moderate position toward the war in Iraq? lumberjack_jeff Nov 2013 #86

The French government's one, perhaps? muriel_volestrangler Nov 2013 #145

This is the first time I've heard France described as moderate in the context of US politics lumberjack_jeff Nov 2013 #160

And yet, they were a centre-right government muriel_volestrangler Nov 2013 #161

This is illustrating my point. lumberjack_jeff Nov 2013 #162

But you'd tell those European moderates they have no convictions muriel_volestrangler Nov 2013 #163

actually, I'm telling a group of self descibed liberals lumberjack_jeff Nov 2013 #165

I'd also give european moderates something of a break. They can look around... lumberjack_jeff Nov 2013 #178

I think moderates differ on the process, not the issue. delta17 Nov 2013 #48

You're not describing process. You're describing ideology. lumberjack_jeff Nov 2013 #72

I didn't. raging moderate Nov 2013 #113

I respectfully disagree. delta17 Nov 2013 #44

Welcome to DU Throd Nov 2013 #45

Thanks! Nt delta17 Nov 2013 #49

See? That's what I'm saying. lumberjack_jeff Nov 2013 #77

+1 idwiyo Nov 2013 #47

Identifying as a centrist, Isoldeblue Nov 2013 #52

Beats being an insulting, judgemental asshole. nobodyspecial Nov 2013 #70

You're entitled to your opinion. n/t lumberjack_jeff Nov 2013 #74

Thank you for saying this, so I didn't have to. ScreamingMeemie Nov 2013 #96

+a stone cold billion Number23 Nov 2013 #108

"You have enemies? Good. That means you've stood up for something, sometime in your life." lumberjack_jeff Nov 2013 #114

Or it could just mean you're an unlikeable, judgemental, selfish ass. Number23 Nov 2013 #115

Hey I'll take an a$$ who will fight corporations over a nice guy who won't any day. liberal_at_heart Nov 2013 #127

I think there are two types of "moderates" Bjorn Against Nov 2013 #41

+1 DanTex Nov 2013 #78

Nothing like projection. Pretzel_Warrior Nov 2013 #112

I am projecting nothing, I know where I stand Bjorn Against Nov 2013 #129

CENTRISM!!!! bvar22 Nov 2013 #42

+1 idwiyo Nov 2013 #50

What does it MEAN? It means they are worried only about what is good for them WHILE Drew Richards Nov 2013 #53

Help me out here, what exactly is not moderate about today's Democratic Party? Snake Plissken Nov 2013 #55

No. Proper liberals peak is DC Dems are center-right Pretzel_Warrior Nov 2013 #73

They lack passion. liberalmuse Nov 2013 #56

In my experience... nxylas Nov 2013 #57

those are the millions of self proclaimed libertarians who post on internet message boards Snake Plissken Nov 2013 #60

No, these are people I know nxylas Nov 2013 #144

I assume it is code for "My life is working well, don't change it." nt. Starry Messenger Nov 2013 #61

"Moderate," my ass. woo me with science Nov 2013 #62

Fuckin A TheKentuckian Nov 2013 #170

"There's Nothing in the Middle of the Road but Yellow Stripes and Dead Armadillos" YOHABLO Nov 2013 #63

I always took it Flatpicker Nov 2013 #64

You said it so well. I always considered myself to be moderate before I started reading JDPriestly Nov 2013 #66

There seem to be at least three possibilities FarCenter Nov 2013 #68

This thread is very enlightening about libreral falsely placed arrogance Pretzel_Warrior Nov 2013 #69

Don't pop their bubbles nobodyspecial Nov 2013 #71

No kidding. This is a continuing and hilarious theme on DU. Pretzel_Warrior Nov 2013 #76

Ah, yes, the country has done so well RobertEarl Nov 2013 #116

Bush stole his first election and it was the GREEN PARTY Pretzel_Warrior Nov 2013 #120

First Bush stole the election? RobertEarl Nov 2013 #128

exactly! the gradual dismantling of the New Deal/Great Society social contract and finding Douglas Carpenter Nov 2013 #109

Except almost 5 years into Obama has seen Pretzel_Warrior Nov 2013 #118

if it wasn't for those progressive purist and other crazy liberals we could have made lot of Douglas Carpenter Nov 2013 #123

You mean the three moderate Republicans who joined Dems? Pretzel_Warrior Nov 2013 #126

I do not refute that Obama has been good on many social issues Douglas Carpenter Nov 2013 #132

Both Bushes get a pass? Pretzel_Warrior Nov 2013 #134

hardly - I certainly didn't support them - Although, I suppose in the paradigm of the time Douglas Carpenter Nov 2013 #137

Don't besmirch those people "doing the heavy lifting". lumberjack_jeff Nov 2013 #181

Your responses are spot on in this thread Number23 Nov 2013 #111

I know. In their hearts, most of them grudgingly admit it Pretzel_Warrior Nov 2013 #122

Despising moderates is no fun RobertEarl Nov 2013 #133

I was going to let your lunacy go Pretzel_Warrior Nov 2013 #136

Your post could be word for word written by any extremist which is a textbook definition Number23 Nov 2013 #194

What is it you don't get? RobertEarl Nov 2013 #195

And it could just as easily be said that liberals were responsible for W Number23 Nov 2013 #197

Did Reagan and Bush II get elected through moderation? lumberjack_jeff Nov 2013 #81

They put together a successful coalition of fundies, racists Pretzel_Warrior Nov 2013 #84

Those right wing crazies got elected. lumberjack_jeff Nov 2013 #88

Liberals are getting elected too. Pretzel_Warrior Nov 2013 #89

I understand that I won't get 100% my way, but that doesn't mean I should aim for 50%. n/t lumberjack_jeff Nov 2013 #90

ACA doesn't represent Liberal ideology from my perspective. 2banon Nov 2013 #207

Compared to the tea party, Bush really did get (s)elected on moderation Hippo_Tron Nov 2013 #174

If it wasn't for The Liberals and Organized LABOR, bvar22 Nov 2013 #169

Moderates are Status Quo defenders leftstreet Nov 2013 #75

Well obviously for some of them it is their golden ticket to act like extremists. Rex Nov 2013 #79

If you want taxes on the rich raised to 90%, you're far to the left on this issue. Nye Bevan Nov 2013 #80

we have been going the way of the moderate for 30 years. It is not working. liberal_at_heart Nov 2013 #105

it's means they're too stupid to care (or chicken) to to be honest about their opinions gopiscrap Nov 2013 #82

Yes, I am sensible and practical, elleng Nov 2013 #83

. lumberjack_jeff Nov 2013 #92

I supported Wes Clark, elleng Nov 2013 #95

When I am told that, I think "conservative". Just sayin'. juajen Nov 2013 #85

It means their interest is in cheering for a team. Actual policy is just a prop. Marr Nov 2013 #87

^ this lumberjack_jeff Nov 2013 #93

I disagree completely. ScreamingMeemie Nov 2013 #101

Wrong elleng Nov 2013 #103

When a self proclaimed Jenoch Nov 2013 #94

Yes it is, but you don't have to participate in it. You can vote for any number of candidates from liberal_at_heart Nov 2013 #124

Those people have zero impact Jenoch Nov 2013 #131

That's fine with those of us who chose that route. I have such a bitter taste in my mouth. I can liberal_at_heart Nov 2013 #135

Are the populist liberals Jenoch Nov 2013 #139

I vote for democrats when there is a populist liberal democrat to vote for. liberal_at_heart Nov 2013 #141

They think for themselves marshall Nov 2013 #97

And yet they define their views in the context of those two poles. lumberjack_jeff Nov 2013 #98

Or back and forth marshall Nov 2013 #148

It means they're Republicans embarrassed by their Party. eom TransitJohn Nov 2013 #99

People who use that term like to pretend they're sane Warpy Nov 2013 #100

I don't. ScreamingMeemie Nov 2013 #102

A moderate is simply Jamaal510 Nov 2013 #104

Yes elleng Nov 2013 #106

Except that doesn't actually mean anything. Marr Nov 2013 #171

in the current paradigm it means someone who is somewhat socially liberal - but supports only Douglas Carpenter Nov 2013 #117

+1 liberal_at_heart Nov 2013 #121

Not true at all. Moderates are not monolithic Pretzel_Warrior Nov 2013 #125

if you watch the Sunday morning talking heads - the extreme left are those who oppose Douglas Carpenter Nov 2013 #130

Exactly-- "moderate" does describe an actual set of concrete positions in today's Marr Nov 2013 #172

What it means when people identify themselves as moderates: Spider Jerusalem Nov 2013 #138

I'm a liberal Bobbie Jo Nov 2013 #140

I used to be that kind of liberal before Race to the Top, Common Core Curriculum. Before they liberal_at_heart Nov 2013 #142

When I call myself that, I mean that rapid systemic changes cause more harm than good Recursion Nov 2013 #146

Right, elleng Nov 2013 #164

Agreed - and your last paragraph is key to changing our country... polichick Nov 2013 #149

being a moderate means realizing we need a candidate that can win scheming daemons Nov 2013 #150

Moderate these days = corporate tool when you're talking about leaders... polichick Nov 2013 #167

It doesn't have to mean, for example Ken Burch Nov 2013 #188

It means they want rich people to get richer off the backs of not rich people. It also means valerief Nov 2013 #151

I like your TV theory. It meshes well will the low information voter post toward the top GoneFishin Nov 2013 #153

Lies are low information. Truth is high information. Teevee spews lies and nurtures valerief Nov 2013 #154

Jim Hightower said it best. alarimer Nov 2013 #152

Moderates and jellyfish... 99Forever Nov 2013 #156

It means "those who desiire to make the Democratic Party more right wing in order Zorra Nov 2013 #166

If you agreed with Obama on some issues and Romney on some issues, you're a moderate Hippo_Tron Nov 2013 #173

Moderation in temper is always a virtue; but moderation in principle is always a vice. Thomas Paine Tierra_y_Libertad Nov 2013 #175

+1 pinto Nov 2013 #180

I believe there was a time DonCoquixote Nov 2013 #176

Ken, only slightly off topic, Blue_In_AK Nov 2013 #179

well, if nobody else runs, I'm ok with him. Ken Burch Nov 2013 #185

Me, too. Blue_In_AK Nov 2013 #189

the best we can say of that campaign is that it ended Ethan's career. Ken Burch Nov 2013 #191

Totally, 100% agree. Blue_In_AK Nov 2013 #192

I think it means they don't like the fighting, acrimony, and bitterness... Hekate Nov 2013 #190

Afraid to admit to voting Republican. Orsino Nov 2013 #196

Most of the people I know who call themselves moderates say they agree with both D and R.... phleshdef Nov 2013 #204

Here is some food for thought about being politically moderate Pretzel_Warrior Nov 2013 #205

If someone applies a label to themselves it means what they say it means loyalsister Nov 2013 #211

I am a Moderate. But there is no policy that I vote with conservatives on. bluestate10 Nov 2013 #212

I don't think you can have this conversation until "Centrists" are separated from moderate. TheKentuckian Nov 2013 #213