General Discussion

Octafish

(55,745 posts)

20. DiEugenio is profound.

Sat Nov 2, 2013, 12:06 PM

Nov 2013

A historian who cites his sources of information and admits when he's wrong, as he pointed out errors in the first edition of his book, Destiny Betrayed. And the guy sounds like he could be from Detroit -- no snobby, country club, frat house nasal condescendo -- just a regular voice of a person looking for answers to the question, "Why?"

Here's a decent interview from last year in Examiner.com: JFK assassination redux, Part 1: James DiEugenio on 'Destiny Betrayed' (Q&A)

EXCERPT...

Some of the books I consulted with were John Newman’s Oswald and the CIA, and JFK and Vietnam. Other important books are Jim Douglass’ JFK and the Unspeakable, Jerry McKnight’s Breach of Trust, Tony Summers’ Conspiracy, and Jim Marrs’ Crossfire and Bill Davy’s Let Justice be Done. A book I used to draw my picture of Kennedy’s foreign policy is Richard Mahoney’s JFK: Ordeal in Africa.

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JFK Conference: James DiEugenio made clear how Foreign Policy changed after November 22, 1963 [View all] Octafish Nov 2013 OP

DiEugenio is one of the most interesting guys out there still working this subject, stranger81 Nov 2013 #1

He brought up Edmund GULLION, US diplomat whom JFK counseled in Vietnam in 1951... Octafish Nov 2013 #2

JFK was never a cold war warrior. Wow. Bolo Boffin Nov 2013 #3

Thanks for the corrective to the magical, naive thinking being espoused in the OP. stopbush Nov 2013 #7

Now, now, stopbush RobertEarl Nov 2013 #9

JFK used Southeast Asia to split the USSR's focus on Germany Bolo Boffin Nov 2013 #15

Do some research - find out how many American military advisors were in Nam stopbush Nov 2013 #24

He could have invaded RobertEarl Nov 2013 #27

RFK on JFK & Nam: stopbush Nov 2013 #31

Did you read your own post? RobertEarl Nov 2013 #39

I was in the army in Europe at the time pscot Nov 2013 #258

Kennedy increased the number of Americans in Vietnam from under a thousand to 16,000. Spider Jerusalem Nov 2013 #276

16000 is a long ways from half a million pscot Nov 2013 #279

(Reply #276) david thurman Dec 2015 #288

Sad that a Democratic Forum would remember a murdered Democratic sabrina 1 Nov 2013 #11

Nobody said that, sabrina 1. Bolo Boffin Nov 2013 #14

kicking......... CanSocDem Nov 2013 #16

Bolo Boffin's is the official meme in Dallas this month. Octafish Nov 2013 #26

You don't have to do anything you don't want to do. sabrina 1 Nov 2013 #30

Because they're presenting a false, romanticized view of history.... YoungDemCA Nov 2013 #43

And you know this, how?? Were you a friend of JFK, there during his administration? sabrina 1 Nov 2013 #48

I'm going to say this again: I'm interested in discussing JFK's assassination. Bolo Boffin Nov 2013 #45

How about you stop judging people for what interests them? sabrina 1 Nov 2013 #46

I haven't. Bolo Boffin Nov 2013 #47

Of course it's a waste of effort. nyquil_man Nov 2013 #194

Sad that so many DUers act as apologists for Oswald, the bastard that killed JFK. stopbush Nov 2013 #212

That would be, very sad, if it were true! n/t sabrina 1 Nov 2013 #213

It's true. zappaman Nov 2013 #216

You're welcome to your fantasies, but the evidence says it is true. stopbush Nov 2013 #231

Excuse me?? sabrina 1 Nov 2013 #232

You want facts? The facts are that Oswald killed JFK. stopbush Nov 2013 #234

You acccused me of sympathizing with the killer of JFK. Either retract that or prove it. I have sabrina 1 Nov 2013 #235

If you're saying that Oswald was the killer of JFK, then sure, I'll retract it and apologize. stopbush Nov 2013 #236

You made an egregious accusation. There are no 'conditions' under which an apology sabrina 1 Nov 2013 #237

Jim Replies on JFK as Cold Warrior Jim DiEugenio Nov 2013 #211

+1,000,000 ucrdem Nov 2013 #220

Review Of Jim DiEugenio's Book By Oliver Stone MinM Nov 2013 #252

Where New JFK Evidence Points MinM Nov 2013 #281

Excellent article. Thanks. nt. Mc Mike Nov 2013 #282

JFK stood up to the Cold War hawks who counseled war -- EVERY TIME. Octafish Nov 2013 #17

It's an interesting take on the Cuban Missile Crisis that JFK's real opponents were Americans. Bolo Boffin Nov 2013 #44

JFK understood leadership. He tried peace first. Octafish Nov 2013 #53

"present day's Money Trumps Peace national policy" - Present day? Bolo Boffin Nov 2013 #56

Yes. The illegal, lie-based war on Iraq goes straight back to Dallas. Octafish Nov 2013 #85

As I said and you side-stepped, present day implies Barack Obama. Bolo Boffin Nov 2013 #90

Why this need to control the message, Bolo Boffin? Octafish Nov 2013 #93

The Pedantic Need To Control The Message Is Quite Tedious HangOnKids Nov 2013 #96

Do you often derail your own threads? Bolo Boffin Nov 2013 #99

How many days? Octafish Nov 2013 #103

Again with silly implications about my motives. Bolo Boffin Nov 2013 #105

Just because you believe something does not make it so YoungDemCA Nov 2013 #111

Just because you believe something does not make it so HangOnKids Nov 2013 #117

Well and simply put. eom stopbush Nov 2013 #145

Audio tape: LBJ urged taking "every step that we can" to support overthrow of Joao Goulart Octafish Nov 2013 #158

What does that have to do with Oswald killing JFK? stopbush Nov 2013 #178

You must have missed the OP about the change in foreign policy between administrations. Octafish Nov 2013 #179

"The record" shows that there wasn't much change between DDE's foreign policy and JFK's FP. stopbush Nov 2013 #180

No need to be insulting. Here's where you can learn more: Octafish Nov 2013 #182

"little evidence that JFK would have pulled American troops out of Vietnam" Bolo Boffin Nov 2013 #165

You should read more and learn. What JFK was doing in Vietnam... Octafish Nov 2013 #222

I found that article long ago Bolo Boffin Nov 2013 #224

Read Gareth Porter for more. Octafish Nov 2013 #227

Robert Buzzanco already did. Bolo Boffin Nov 2013 #229

Great. Read John M. Newman for more. Octafish Nov 2013 #230

Newman is odd. Bolo Boffin Nov 2013 #238

Newman is profound. Octafish Nov 2013 #243

What "allegations" have I made against Newman? n/t Bolo Boffin Nov 2013 #244

Read your post, Bolo Boffin. Octafish Nov 2013 #245

There are no libelous allegations in my post. Bolo Boffin Nov 2013 #247

You wrote ''Newman is odd.'' Octafish Nov 2013 #248

That's libelous? Bolo Boffin Nov 2013 #250

You defamed his character, Bolo Boffin. Octafish Nov 2013 #251

The fuck I did, Octafish. Bolo Boffin Nov 2013 #255

Your words, Bolo Boffin. Octafish Nov 2013 #256

Righteous indignation? Me? Bolo Boffin Nov 2013 #257

But he didn't really WANT to do that stuff, you see RZM Nov 2013 #38

He never reversed course RobertEarl Nov 2013 #40

Our man Diem: How America Came To Back South Vietnam's Despised And Doomed President (by Seth Jacobs bobthedrummer Nov 2013 #144

"Ick bin ein Berliner" = Cold Warrior??? soundsgreat Nov 2013 #174

Jim Replies Jim DiEugenio Nov 2013 #210

welcome to DU gopiscrap Nov 2013 #214

Bolo Replies to "Jim Replies" Bolo Boffin Nov 2013 #228

Jim Replies to Bolo on Vietnam Jim DiEugenio Nov 2013 #240

Bolo Points Out To "Jim Replies" The Link He Missed Bolo Boffin Nov 2013 #241

What Bolo Missed Completely Jim DiEugenio Nov 2013 #242

Bolo Points Out That Forrestal Is Not Bundy Which Jim Appears To Be Confused About Bolo Boffin Nov 2013 #254

With Bolo, he is always moving the goalposts Jim DiEugenio Nov 2013 #268

Right on Jim DiEugenio. ucrdem Nov 2013 #269

But, wait! You didn't tell us the name of the university you mentor doctoral candidates for! Bolo Boffin Nov 2013 #270

But that's not what he wrote. Octafish Nov 2013 #271

Ominous vague pronouncements from Octafish. Bolo Boffin Nov 2013 #272

Your interaction with DiEugenio shows what you're all about, Bolo Boffin. Octafish Nov 2013 #273

Thank you for your opinion. n/t Bolo Boffin Nov 2013 #275

Your interaction with DiEugenio shows what you're all about, Bolo Boffin. zappaman Nov 2013 #274

It bothers me that DiEugenio never managed to mention the university he works for. Bolo Boffin Nov 2013 #277

Thanks for the time you've taken here, Mr. D. Mc Mike Nov 2013 #280

K&R DeSwiss Nov 2013 #4

DiEugenio said Kennedy was attacked bitterly in Washington for siding with democracy in Congo... Octafish Nov 2013 #18

"Siding with democracy"? Spider Jerusalem Nov 2013 #66

Excellent point. Octafish Nov 2013 #79

The French had been kicked out of Vietnam for nine years when Diem was killed alcibiades_mystery Nov 2013 #108

"What does that have to do with the French colonialists?" Nothing, of course YoungDemCA Nov 2013 #110

I'm sorry. I assumed readers had a basic understanding of the history of Vietnam. Octafish Nov 2013 #164

A ridiculous response alcibiades_mystery Nov 2013 #169

Only ridiculous if you value supporting Diem, whose power came from corrupt colonialist money. Octafish Nov 2013 #170

Diem was a brutal tyrant supported by the US, including Kennedy, until he became inconvenient alcibiades_mystery Nov 2013 #172

So you understand what Kennedy was trying to do? Octafish Nov 2013 #173

And, JimboBillyBubbaBob Nov 2013 #76

Too close to bedtime to do this justice zeemike Nov 2013 #5

DiEugenio is profound. Octafish Nov 2013 #20

I was not familiar with him before. zeemike Nov 2013 #21

Translation: here's a bunch of evidence-bereft CT books I've read before writing my own stopbush Nov 2013 #25

That's not true at all, stopbush. Octafish Nov 2013 #36

Pot, meet kettle. stopbush Nov 2013 #82

Show where I'm wrong. Otherwise don't libel me. Octafish Nov 2013 #83

In the past, I've spent (wasted?) plenty of time showing you where you are wrong. stopbush Nov 2013 #92

Bugliosi presents only information that supports his theory. Octafish Nov 2013 #94

Bullshit. Bolo Boffin Nov 2013 #101

Why the indignation, Bolo Boffin? Octafish Nov 2013 #141

Your problem is that you give way too much credence to little tidbits of opinion stopbush Nov 2013 #142

Have you even read Bugliosi? Be honest, because I don't see how you would make such a statement stopbush Nov 2013 #143

No, I haven't read his book. The great DUer H20 Man did and wrote interesting things about it. Octafish Nov 2013 #146

"No, I haven't read his book." That says it all, does it not? stopbush Nov 2013 #150

So what? I did read the Warren Report. Octafish Nov 2013 #154

I don't have an open mind on the JFK killing, You're right there. stopbush Nov 2013 #177

A hatchet job? Really? stopbush Nov 2013 #181

So what are you so worried about then? DUers are pretty smart people, sabrina 1 Nov 2013 #120

that's interesting gopiscrap Nov 2013 #6

DiEugenio blasted Bill O'Reilly and his Nixon-stained GOP boss, Roger Ailes... Octafish Nov 2013 #22

yup gopiscrap Nov 2013 #23

k and r bbgrunt Nov 2013 #8

DiEugenio pegged the Dulles Brothers in public to the proverbial wall. Octafish Nov 2013 #29

Allen Dulles should have been a suspect. Eddie Haskell Nov 2013 #190

David Talbot called Dulles, ''the Chairman of the Board of the Assassination.'' Octafish Nov 2013 #191

"John F. Kennedy was never a Cold Warrior" ucrdem Nov 2013 #10

Who is the 'fake left'? sabrina 1 Nov 2013 #12

That is a great question. What is this poster implying? The Conserva-Dems have been rhett o rick Nov 2013 #49

DiEugenio has written about the Right killing off the JFK Legacy (New Frontier), too... Octafish Nov 2013 #34

Great article, recommended to all. ucrdem Nov 2013 #57

Sorry...no Spider Jerusalem Nov 2013 #13

JFK in the Senate, April 6, 1954: "to pour money, m�teriel, and men ucrdem Nov 2013 #28

1954? Spider Jerusalem Nov 2013 #59

I think you need to read up on what Kennedy actually wrote and said. ucrdem Nov 2013 #62

I think you do. Spider Jerusalem Nov 2013 #63

I don't suppose you have a print source for that? ucrdem Nov 2013 #64

I have a video: Spider Jerusalem Nov 2013 #65

But only of the last part, which is unobjectionable. ucrdem Nov 2013 #67

... Spider Jerusalem Nov 2013 #68

Attaboy. ucrdem Nov 2013 #70

I wouldn't say Kennedy "ordered" the Diem coup Bolo Boffin Nov 2013 #71

Re E. Howard Hunt's forged diplomatic cables tying Kennedy to the Diem assassination: Mc Mike Nov 2013 #73

You say "Re: Hunt's forged cables" like I said something about them. Bolo Boffin Nov 2013 #74

Just pointing out the indisputable fact of the existence of the forgeries, BB. Mc Mike Nov 2013 #84

That doesn't change the indisputable fact that Kennedy let the coup happen. Bolo Boffin Nov 2013 #88

Actually, yes. What JFK wanted was different than what Pentagon, State and CIA delivered. Octafish Nov 2013 #135

No, JFK didn't want Diem assassinated. But they OKed the coup. Bolo Boffin Nov 2013 #151

We see things differently. Mc Mike Nov 2013 #160

Clearly. Bolo Boffin Nov 2013 #163

'Cold Warrior' means different things for different people. Mc Mike Nov 2013 #187

And the truth is in between, but closer to hardline than appeaser. Bolo Boffin Nov 2013 #193

I agree with you about the dictabelt evidence. Mc Mike Nov 2013 #198

Well, that's a start. Bolo Boffin Nov 2013 #202

Here's an excerpt from HSCA, p. 258; Mc Mike Nov 2013 #208

"dozens of right wing gun nuts turned out to a restaurant in Dallas" - wasn't that incredible? Bolo Boffin Nov 2013 #209

I'd say we agree on a lot of good Democratic issues, if not the one brought up by the o.p. Mc Mike Nov 2013 #239

+1 Thank you. YoungDemCA Nov 2013 #42

Could you expand on that comment please? 'Magical thinking'! What does that sabrina 1 Nov 2013 #52

I would like some clarification on that comment as well n/t HangOnKids Nov 2013 #97

That's an excellent article by Noam Chomsky. n/t Bolo Boffin Nov 2013 #55

It's 21 years out of date and seriously deficient historically. ucrdem Nov 2013 #58

"seriously deficient historically" - feel free to back that up any time now. Bolo Boffin Nov 2013 #60

Chomsky: "Changes of Administration, including the Kennedy assassination, had no large-scale effect ucrdem Nov 2013 #61

Handwaving. n/t Bolo Boffin Nov 2013 #69

American foreign policy *has* been remarkalby stable over the years YoungDemCA Nov 2013 #114

Simplistic, reductive and misleading. ucrdem Nov 2013 #115

Thanks for covering the event here. Mc Mike Nov 2013 #19

The main stream media and academia have foisted the Big Lie... Octafish Nov 2013 #159

Your thread last year on the assassination helped me Mc Mike Nov 2013 #161

That there is, is self evident hootinholler Nov 2013 #32

Wow, a nation on a criminal path since November 22, 1963, and since the Gulf of Tonkin, a series of indepat Nov 2013 #33

DiEugenio's website is ctka.net Playful Piranha Nov 2013 #35

K & R !!! WillyT Nov 2013 #37

"JFK was never a Cold Warrior" YoungDemCA Nov 2013 #41

This message was self-deleted by its author HangOnKids Nov 2013 #98

Yes, there has been lots of historical revisionism going on. Now we are sabrina 1 Nov 2013 #107

How about this... YoungDemCA Nov 2013 #109

This message was self-deleted by its author HangOnKids Nov 2013 #119

Thanks for your Continuing Reporting on This! KoKo Nov 2013 #50

This message was self-deleted by its author rhett o rick Nov 2013 #51

This message was self-deleted by its author Bolo Boffin Nov 2013 #54

You are right. I deleted my post. I just find that the obsession to lock or hide posts to rhett o rick Nov 2013 #75

And I find the obsession to break DU rules to be just as disruptive. Bolo Boffin Nov 2013 #89

Open minded liberals recognize that little is black and white. rhett o rick Nov 2013 #100

I want you to wander through this very thread at your leisure. Bolo Boffin Nov 2013 #102

Oh I see it. It's the conservatives that want to believe that Oswald acted alone. rhett o rick Nov 2013 #106

Yes, I'm a conservative... YoungDemCA Nov 2013 #112

This message was self-deleted by its author HangOnKids Nov 2013 #116

IMO those that are open-minded and willing to listen to different views are usually liberals. rhett o rick Nov 2013 #136

There is nothing liberal or conservative about thinking Oswald acted alone. Bolo Boffin Nov 2013 #113

You are entitled to your opinion. The majority of people on the planet sabrina 1 Nov 2013 #121

More Meta bullshit out of you. Bolo Boffin Nov 2013 #122

Thanks for keeping this thread kicked HangOnKids Nov 2013 #123

I'm happy to keep the thread kicked, HangOnKids. Bolo Boffin Nov 2013 #124

I've read the thread HangOnKids Nov 2013 #125

Goodbye, then. Bolo Boffin Nov 2013 #126

Ordering people around now? 'Move on'? sabrina 1 Nov 2013 #127

Move. On. n/t Bolo Boffin Nov 2013 #129

Move on to what? I have no problem with this thread so why should I sabrina 1 Nov 2013 #130

Then start fucking talking about the damn topic instead of harassing me! Bolo Boffin Nov 2013 #131

You are harassing me. You are attempting to tell me what to do, you are sabrina 1 Nov 2013 #133

In EVERY instance where we are having a "talk" on this thread Bolo Boffin Nov 2013 #149

Not what I said at all. I said conservatives want to believe that Oswald acted alone. rhett o rick Nov 2013 #139

Most conservatives I know are gleeful that Ds buy into the JFK Cts. stopbush Nov 2013 #147

You win the thread. zappaman Nov 2013 #148

You don't win a thread by being so spectacularly wrong. sabrina 1 Nov 2013 #166

"Right Wingers WANT the world to believe that the 'commie did it alone'." zappaman Nov 2013 #167

I'm sure there are some Right Wingers, in fact I know THERE are sabrina 1 Nov 2013 #168

Most Democrats I know are furious the perpetrators have not been brought to justice. Octafish Nov 2013 #156

The perpetrator (singular) in the JFK case was Oswald. Case closed. The evidence is overwhelming. stopbush Nov 2013 #176

I doubt that they are gleeful. You are making a false equivalency when rhett o rick Nov 2013 #157

I'm not claiming there were "not conspiracies in any of the assassinations." Just in JFK's case. stopbush Nov 2013 #175

You couldn't be more wrong. It drives Right Wingers insane when sabrina 1 Nov 2013 #162

It is, very disruptive and costing DU many members who are sick of it also. sabrina 1 Nov 2013 #118

I'm surprised you didn't whine about the alert in ATA... SidDithers Nov 2013 #72

So what did I post that isn't true? Octafish Nov 2013 #77

So you call it "housekeeping"? And you consider yourself the Housekeeper? rhett o rick Nov 2013 #80

Whatever... SidDithers Nov 2013 #87

I think the hosts of GD do a fantastic job. Just because sabrina 1 Nov 2013 #132

Oh, it's you again... SidDithers Nov 2013 #134

Here let me help you so you understand the hosts' decision here. sabrina 1 Nov 2013 #137

tl:dr... SidDithers Nov 2013 #138

Didn't expect YOU to be. But I'm happy to know that a majority sabrina 1 Nov 2013 #140

"Cold Warrior" H2O Man Nov 2013 #78

Thank you, H2O Man. Octafish Nov 2013 #95

One of the things H2O Man Nov 2013 #104

Everyone should read "JFK and the Unspeakable" by Jim Douglass to clear up the Cold Warrior thing. Zen Democrat Nov 2013 #81

I found it to be very well documented, as well. deutsey Nov 2013 #128

Yeah, I've read it, I'm not in the dark, and it's a mess. stopbush Nov 2013 #152

Warren Commission Member John J. McCloy certainly helped to change/shape policies pre/post 11-23-63. bobthedrummer Nov 2013 #86

McCloy was against the Diem coup Bolo Boffin Nov 2013 #153

McCloy and Dulles have important NAZI links that are largely forgotten. Octafish Nov 2013 #186

Some of US will never forget that simple fact, will we, despite what the perception managers peddle. bobthedrummer Nov 2013 #188

Didn't know that about Hunt. avaistheone1 Nov 2013 #192

Advancing the interests of Big Money, Big Oil and Big Wars for Profit. Oilwellian Nov 2013 #91

Octafish, thanks for the report on James DiEugenio's presentation. avaistheone1 Nov 2013 #155

Jim Garrison, Larry King, and RFK MinM Nov 2013 #171

Jim DiEugenio podcast (11/07/13) MinM Nov 2013 #197

Great report, Octafish! I wish I could have been there. CTKA rocks! robertpaulsen Nov 2013 #183

Thank you for the heads-up, robertpaulsen! Boggs had his doubts... Octafish Nov 2013 #199

Joan Mellen is a national treasure... Octafish Nov 2013 #200

James Douglass was in town... Octafish Nov 2013 #201

Keep up the great reporting! Was Josiah Thompson there? robertpaulsen Nov 2013 #205

Dr. Thompson was at Duquesne Conference... Octafish Nov 2013 #206

That is making MY hair stand on end! robertpaulsen Nov 2013 #207

Did Sabato say anything about his study that showed the Dictabelt evidence is useless? Bolo Boffin Nov 2013 #215

Can I take a guess as to the answer? zappaman Nov 2013 #217

Sabato? I would have expected him to. Bolo Boffin Nov 2013 #218

Are you monitoring every word I write, Bolo Boffin? Octafish Nov 2013 #219

Stop making those accusations immediately. Bolo Boffin Nov 2013 #221

No, I won't. You pop up on every post I write on the subject of JFK. Octafish Nov 2013 #223

So? Bolo Boffin Nov 2013 #225

''Stop hijacking your own freaking OP to discuss me and get back to the topic.'' Octafish Nov 2013 #226

Meta. n/t Bolo Boffin Nov 2013 #233

Dude. Octafish Nov 2013 #246

Now you're just being random. Bolo Boffin Nov 2013 #249

Thank you zappaman Nov 2013 #259

Yeay! Tag Team. Octafish Nov 2013 #260

You must be confused again...my reply was to another DUer. zappaman Nov 2013 #261

Not at all. This is a discussion board, remember? Octafish Nov 2013 #262

Thanks for reminding me! zappaman Nov 2013 #263

DUers need to know that your source is an ultraconservative right winger. Octafish Nov 2013 #265

Genetic fallacy. n/t Bolo Boffin Nov 2013 #266

I appreciate it. Bolo Boffin Nov 2013 #267

After JFK was.... adavid Nov 2013 #184

K&R woo me with science Nov 2013 #185

What did you think of Gary L. Aguilar, M.D.? Eddie Haskell Nov 2013 #189

While I don't know him personally, I think the world of the guy. Octafish Nov 2013 #195

I wish Eddie Haskell Nov 2013 #196

I used to believe in JFK CTs The Midway Rebel Nov 2013 #203

K & R defacto7 Nov 2013 #204

Message auto-removed Name removed Nov 2013 #253

Interesting coincidence aikoaiko Nov 2013 #264

Kicked and recommended. Uncle Joe Nov 2013 #278

Where New JFK Evidence Points Octafish Nov 2013 #283

Don't forget my latest, its really moving around Jim DiEugenio Nov 2013 #284

NAZI-CIA; October Surprise; Bush-Moon Axis; Corporate McPravda... Octafish Nov 2013 #285

"Good DUers"? Bolo Boffin Nov 2013 #286

JFK's Embrace of Third World Nationalists Octafish Dec 2013 #287

Post removed Post removed Feb 11 #289