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bvar22

(39,909 posts)

169. If it wasn't for The Liberals and Organized LABOR,

Sat Nov 2, 2013, 02:15 PM

Nov 2013

....we wouldn't have had those things either.

Do you really think Obama would be president today IF he had been honest about:

*Mandates with NO Public Option

*Billions in subsidies for the health Insurance Industry

*MORE "Free Trade"

*Extending the Bush Tax Cuts

*defending the Banker Bonuses with Bailout Money

*Cutting Social Security

*Ridiculing Organized LABOR

*Extended Drone Killings

*Presidential Assassination Lists

*Protecting Clapper & the NSA

*Re-Upping the Patriot Act

*The NDAA and enhancing the Powers of the "Unitary Executive"

*A "Sequester" to avoid accountability for cutting Social Programs

You really think that?

[font color=firebrick][center]"There are forces within the Democratic Party who want us to sound like kinder, gentler Republicans.
I want a party that will STAND UP for Working Americans."
---Paul Wellstone [/font][/center] [center] [/font]
[font size=1]photo by bvar22
Shortly before Sen Wellstone was killed[/center][/font]

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What does it really MEAN when people label themselves as political "moderates"? [View all] Ken Burch Nov 2013 OP

Wow. Really? Pretzel_Warrior Nov 2013 #1

Not an ideologist...but not closed off, either. Ken Burch Nov 2013 #4

incrementalism... would love examples of that actually working, b/c nashville_brook Nov 2013 #198

"Ideologist"? Scootaloo Nov 2013 #107

Here you go Pretzel_Warrior Nov 2013 #110

Not sure it's valid to assume those who don't label themselves "ideologue" or "Ideologist" Ken Burch Nov 2013 #187

OK..."ideologue". Ken Burch Nov 2013 #186

In my experience, it makes them ill-informed and oblivious. Chan790 Nov 2013 #2

I identify as a moderate. I don't consider myself "low information". Throd Nov 2013 #5

There's exceptions to every rule. n/t Chan790 Nov 2013 #8

But then you don't answer the OP's question either. What do you mean when you say you Bluenorthwest Nov 2013 #9

My views are not overly far left nor far right, hence "moderate". Throd Nov 2013 #12

Why not just say 'it's a term of art meaning whatever you wish'? Bluenorthwest Nov 2013 #15

Mostly the views of the socially conservative Moral Majority types are "overly far right". Throd Nov 2013 #19

Is that the same thing as a "Reagan Democrat"? bvar22 Nov 2013 #38

I never understood the term "Reagan Democrat" either. Throd Nov 2013 #39

Perhaps defining "moderate" is going to be vague by nature ZombieHorde Nov 2013 #119

Please list a few "far left" and "far right" views you don't subscribe to. nt. Warren Stupidity Nov 2013 #183

A number of people in this thread have equated radicalism with violence and repression. Ken Burch Nov 2013 #208

My point is that we do in fact have a major political party advocating far right positions. Warren Stupidity Nov 2013 #209

You are right about our far right major party. Ken Burch Nov 2013 #210

There is an insidious split-the-difference, false equivalence epidemic BlueStreak Nov 2013 #67

Splitting the difference nearly always is nosensical with republicans because their goal posts GoneFishin Nov 2013 #155

SO TRUE!!!!!!! La Lioness Priyanka Nov 2013 #193

Sure thing Rush Egnever Nov 2013 #199

Yes - a euphemism for who use common sense. dipsydoodle Nov 2013 #3

For me, it means "cautious." raging moderate Nov 2013 #6

That just sounds fear based, craven rather than cautious. Bluenorthwest Nov 2013 #13

Attacking moderates for being moderate is what extremists do Pretzel_Warrior Nov 2013 #16

So criticizing moderates is now akin to killing them? Luminous Animal Nov 2013 #18

Just providing an example of its logical conclusion Pretzel_Warrior Nov 2013 #22

Um no. It is not a logical conclusion that radical ideas result in the killing Luminous Animal Nov 2013 #28

I said extreme. And they are extreme. Like the antiwar folks in 60's Pretzel_Warrior Nov 2013 #29

Perhaps I misunderstood what you meant by the word "attacking"... Luminous Animal Nov 2013 #36

Dr King was anti war too. Bluenorthwest Nov 2013 #158

"like the anti-war" folks in the 60's..??? 2banon Nov 2013 #200

way to to. obviously was referring to the EXTREME ones who used violence Pretzel_Warrior Nov 2013 #203

yes, I read it. This is what you said.. 2banon Nov 2013 #206

I don't think it is moderate to say 'we know what is right, but let's wait' Bluenorthwest Nov 2013 #32

I actually remember reading the argument for gradualism in Life magazine zeemike Nov 2013 #59

Of course the gradualists here refuse to address what Martin said and instead they make Bluenorthwest Nov 2013 #157

Well nothing has really changed. zeemike Nov 2013 #159

MLK was classified as a Terrorist courtesy J.E.Hoover and the National Security Establishment 2banon Nov 2013 #201

Very simple seveneyes Nov 2013 #7

No. You have confused "The Moderates" with "The Hippies". bvar22 Nov 2013 #168

If they want money or your vote, it means that they consider everyone else to be an extremist AnotherMcIntosh Nov 2013 #10

It depends on who you ask. SolutionisSolidarity Nov 2013 #11

Funny thing is, Rush Limbaugh says the same thing about moderates. Throd Nov 2013 #24

Well, I try not to be a hypocrite. raging moderate Nov 2013 #14

Wrong, it means they are anti-extremist intaglio Nov 2013 #17

I agree that it means anti-extremist. Curmudgeoness Nov 2013 #54

Well said, intaglio Isoldeblue Nov 2013 #58

Good discussion. The official framing of left, right, & center are phony, & function as a tool to... Faryn Balyncd Nov 2013 #20

Huh? Unbelievable what passes for logic here Pretzel_Warrior Nov 2013 #26

You are assuming that politics is one dimensional Fumesucker Nov 2013 #51

Correct. The assumption that political views can be accurately represented linearly, and that views Faryn Balyncd Nov 2013 #91

Well Stated! 2banon Nov 2013 #202

You have a point. Faryn Balyncd Nov 2013 #143

Excellent post. Thanks. n/t Laelth Nov 2013 #147

I don't think there's any merit in creating a new consensus anywhere between the poles. lumberjack_jeff Nov 2013 #177

Agree. Faryn Balyncd Nov 2013 #182

I grew up very poor. Caution is how we survived. raging moderate Nov 2013 #21

At one time "conservative" didn't have such negative connotations. lumberjack_jeff Nov 2013 #40

No really that is not right. Warren Stupidity Nov 2013 #184

Caution is fine. And I appreciate you sharing your experiences, truly. Ken Burch Nov 2013 #43

It means what Humpty Dumpty meant Fumesucker Nov 2013 #23

Or it depends on the issue, and the strength of their feelings on the matter IronLionZion Nov 2013 #25

in the sane and rational universe - a moderate or a centrist would be someone who neither embraces Douglas Carpenter Nov 2013 #27

You have described well what it should mean, at least in the context of right/left pol. ideology Dragonfli Nov 2013 #65

Personally, I'm not sure what to call myself FrodosPet Nov 2013 #30

It means that they... lumberjack_jeff Nov 2013 #31

You got me. I'm a stupid, spineless creature desperate for companionship. Throd Nov 2013 #33

If you say so. lumberjack_jeff Nov 2013 #34

I think your answers (a) and (b) fail muriel_volestrangler Nov 2013 #35

The question posed was "what does IT mean", not "what do THEY mean". lumberjack_jeff Nov 2013 #37

"...when people label themselves as political "moderates"?" muriel_volestrangler Nov 2013 #46

What was the moderate position toward the war in Iraq? lumberjack_jeff Nov 2013 #86

The French government's one, perhaps? muriel_volestrangler Nov 2013 #145

This is the first time I've heard France described as moderate in the context of US politics lumberjack_jeff Nov 2013 #160

And yet, they were a centre-right government muriel_volestrangler Nov 2013 #161

This is illustrating my point. lumberjack_jeff Nov 2013 #162

But you'd tell those European moderates they have no convictions muriel_volestrangler Nov 2013 #163

actually, I'm telling a group of self descibed liberals lumberjack_jeff Nov 2013 #165

I'd also give european moderates something of a break. They can look around... lumberjack_jeff Nov 2013 #178

I think moderates differ on the process, not the issue. delta17 Nov 2013 #48

You're not describing process. You're describing ideology. lumberjack_jeff Nov 2013 #72

I didn't. raging moderate Nov 2013 #113

I respectfully disagree. delta17 Nov 2013 #44

Welcome to DU Throd Nov 2013 #45

Thanks! Nt delta17 Nov 2013 #49

See? That's what I'm saying. lumberjack_jeff Nov 2013 #77

+1 idwiyo Nov 2013 #47

Identifying as a centrist, Isoldeblue Nov 2013 #52

Beats being an insulting, judgemental asshole. nobodyspecial Nov 2013 #70

You're entitled to your opinion. n/t lumberjack_jeff Nov 2013 #74

Thank you for saying this, so I didn't have to. ScreamingMeemie Nov 2013 #96

+a stone cold billion Number23 Nov 2013 #108

"You have enemies? Good. That means you've stood up for something, sometime in your life." lumberjack_jeff Nov 2013 #114

Or it could just mean you're an unlikeable, judgemental, selfish ass. Number23 Nov 2013 #115

Hey I'll take an a$$ who will fight corporations over a nice guy who won't any day. liberal_at_heart Nov 2013 #127

I think there are two types of "moderates" Bjorn Against Nov 2013 #41

+1 DanTex Nov 2013 #78

Nothing like projection. Pretzel_Warrior Nov 2013 #112

I am projecting nothing, I know where I stand Bjorn Against Nov 2013 #129

CENTRISM!!!! bvar22 Nov 2013 #42

+1 idwiyo Nov 2013 #50

What does it MEAN? It means they are worried only about what is good for them WHILE Drew Richards Nov 2013 #53

Help me out here, what exactly is not moderate about today's Democratic Party? Snake Plissken Nov 2013 #55

No. Proper liberals peak is DC Dems are center-right Pretzel_Warrior Nov 2013 #73

They lack passion. liberalmuse Nov 2013 #56

In my experience... nxylas Nov 2013 #57

those are the millions of self proclaimed libertarians who post on internet message boards Snake Plissken Nov 2013 #60

No, these are people I know nxylas Nov 2013 #144

I assume it is code for "My life is working well, don't change it." nt. Starry Messenger Nov 2013 #61

"Moderate," my ass. woo me with science Nov 2013 #62

Fuckin A TheKentuckian Nov 2013 #170

"There's Nothing in the Middle of the Road but Yellow Stripes and Dead Armadillos" YOHABLO Nov 2013 #63

I always took it Flatpicker Nov 2013 #64

You said it so well. I always considered myself to be moderate before I started reading JDPriestly Nov 2013 #66

There seem to be at least three possibilities FarCenter Nov 2013 #68

This thread is very enlightening about libreral falsely placed arrogance Pretzel_Warrior Nov 2013 #69

Don't pop their bubbles nobodyspecial Nov 2013 #71

No kidding. This is a continuing and hilarious theme on DU. Pretzel_Warrior Nov 2013 #76

Ah, yes, the country has done so well RobertEarl Nov 2013 #116

Bush stole his first election and it was the GREEN PARTY Pretzel_Warrior Nov 2013 #120

First Bush stole the election? RobertEarl Nov 2013 #128

exactly! the gradual dismantling of the New Deal/Great Society social contract and finding Douglas Carpenter Nov 2013 #109

Except almost 5 years into Obama has seen Pretzel_Warrior Nov 2013 #118

if it wasn't for those progressive purist and other crazy liberals we could have made lot of Douglas Carpenter Nov 2013 #123

You mean the three moderate Republicans who joined Dems? Pretzel_Warrior Nov 2013 #126

I do not refute that Obama has been good on many social issues Douglas Carpenter Nov 2013 #132

Both Bushes get a pass? Pretzel_Warrior Nov 2013 #134

hardly - I certainly didn't support them - Although, I suppose in the paradigm of the time Douglas Carpenter Nov 2013 #137

Don't besmirch those people "doing the heavy lifting". lumberjack_jeff Nov 2013 #181

Your responses are spot on in this thread Number23 Nov 2013 #111

I know. In their hearts, most of them grudgingly admit it Pretzel_Warrior Nov 2013 #122

Despising moderates is no fun RobertEarl Nov 2013 #133

I was going to let your lunacy go Pretzel_Warrior Nov 2013 #136

Your post could be word for word written by any extremist which is a textbook definition Number23 Nov 2013 #194

What is it you don't get? RobertEarl Nov 2013 #195

And it could just as easily be said that liberals were responsible for W Number23 Nov 2013 #197

Did Reagan and Bush II get elected through moderation? lumberjack_jeff Nov 2013 #81

They put together a successful coalition of fundies, racists Pretzel_Warrior Nov 2013 #84

Those right wing crazies got elected. lumberjack_jeff Nov 2013 #88

Liberals are getting elected too. Pretzel_Warrior Nov 2013 #89

I understand that I won't get 100% my way, but that doesn't mean I should aim for 50%. n/t lumberjack_jeff Nov 2013 #90

ACA doesn't represent Liberal ideology from my perspective. 2banon Nov 2013 #207

Compared to the tea party, Bush really did get (s)elected on moderation Hippo_Tron Nov 2013 #174

If it wasn't for The Liberals and Organized LABOR, bvar22 Nov 2013 #169

Moderates are Status Quo defenders leftstreet Nov 2013 #75

Well obviously for some of them it is their golden ticket to act like extremists. Rex Nov 2013 #79

If you want taxes on the rich raised to 90%, you're far to the left on this issue. Nye Bevan Nov 2013 #80

we have been going the way of the moderate for 30 years. It is not working. liberal_at_heart Nov 2013 #105

it's means they're too stupid to care (or chicken) to to be honest about their opinions gopiscrap Nov 2013 #82

Yes, I am sensible and practical, elleng Nov 2013 #83

. lumberjack_jeff Nov 2013 #92

I supported Wes Clark, elleng Nov 2013 #95

When I am told that, I think "conservative". Just sayin'. juajen Nov 2013 #85

It means their interest is in cheering for a team. Actual policy is just a prop. Marr Nov 2013 #87

^ this lumberjack_jeff Nov 2013 #93

I disagree completely. ScreamingMeemie Nov 2013 #101

Wrong elleng Nov 2013 #103

When a self proclaimed Jenoch Nov 2013 #94

Yes it is, but you don't have to participate in it. You can vote for any number of candidates from liberal_at_heart Nov 2013 #124

Those people have zero impact Jenoch Nov 2013 #131

That's fine with those of us who chose that route. I have such a bitter taste in my mouth. I can liberal_at_heart Nov 2013 #135

Are the populist liberals Jenoch Nov 2013 #139

I vote for democrats when there is a populist liberal democrat to vote for. liberal_at_heart Nov 2013 #141

They think for themselves marshall Nov 2013 #97

And yet they define their views in the context of those two poles. lumberjack_jeff Nov 2013 #98

Or back and forth marshall Nov 2013 #148

It means they're Republicans embarrassed by their Party. eom TransitJohn Nov 2013 #99

People who use that term like to pretend they're sane Warpy Nov 2013 #100

I don't. ScreamingMeemie Nov 2013 #102

A moderate is simply Jamaal510 Nov 2013 #104

Yes elleng Nov 2013 #106

Except that doesn't actually mean anything. Marr Nov 2013 #171

in the current paradigm it means someone who is somewhat socially liberal - but supports only Douglas Carpenter Nov 2013 #117

+1 liberal_at_heart Nov 2013 #121

Not true at all. Moderates are not monolithic Pretzel_Warrior Nov 2013 #125

if you watch the Sunday morning talking heads - the extreme left are those who oppose Douglas Carpenter Nov 2013 #130

Exactly-- "moderate" does describe an actual set of concrete positions in today's Marr Nov 2013 #172

What it means when people identify themselves as moderates: Spider Jerusalem Nov 2013 #138

I'm a liberal Bobbie Jo Nov 2013 #140

I used to be that kind of liberal before Race to the Top, Common Core Curriculum. Before they liberal_at_heart Nov 2013 #142

When I call myself that, I mean that rapid systemic changes cause more harm than good Recursion Nov 2013 #146

Right, elleng Nov 2013 #164

Agreed - and your last paragraph is key to changing our country... polichick Nov 2013 #149

being a moderate means realizing we need a candidate that can win scheming daemons Nov 2013 #150

Moderate these days = corporate tool when you're talking about leaders... polichick Nov 2013 #167

It doesn't have to mean, for example Ken Burch Nov 2013 #188

It means they want rich people to get richer off the backs of not rich people. It also means valerief Nov 2013 #151

I like your TV theory. It meshes well will the low information voter post toward the top GoneFishin Nov 2013 #153

Lies are low information. Truth is high information. Teevee spews lies and nurtures valerief Nov 2013 #154

Jim Hightower said it best. alarimer Nov 2013 #152

Moderates and jellyfish... 99Forever Nov 2013 #156

It means "those who desiire to make the Democratic Party more right wing in order Zorra Nov 2013 #166

If you agreed with Obama on some issues and Romney on some issues, you're a moderate Hippo_Tron Nov 2013 #173

Moderation in temper is always a virtue; but moderation in principle is always a vice. Thomas Paine Tierra_y_Libertad Nov 2013 #175

+1 pinto Nov 2013 #180

I believe there was a time DonCoquixote Nov 2013 #176

Ken, only slightly off topic, Blue_In_AK Nov 2013 #179

well, if nobody else runs, I'm ok with him. Ken Burch Nov 2013 #185

Me, too. Blue_In_AK Nov 2013 #189

the best we can say of that campaign is that it ended Ethan's career. Ken Burch Nov 2013 #191

Totally, 100% agree. Blue_In_AK Nov 2013 #192

I think it means they don't like the fighting, acrimony, and bitterness... Hekate Nov 2013 #190

Afraid to admit to voting Republican. Orsino Nov 2013 #196

Most of the people I know who call themselves moderates say they agree with both D and R.... phleshdef Nov 2013 #204

Here is some food for thought about being politically moderate Pretzel_Warrior Nov 2013 #205

If someone applies a label to themselves it means what they say it means loyalsister Nov 2013 #211

I am a Moderate. But there is no policy that I vote with conservatives on. bluestate10 Nov 2013 #212

I don't think you can have this conversation until "Centrists" are separated from moderate. TheKentuckian Nov 2013 #213