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In reply to the discussion: Opinions please [View all]Laelth
(32,017 posts)6. Here I walk on thin ice.
I think it's entirely acceptable, as a Democrat, to argue that the legality of abortion ought to be a matter decided by the states rather than by the Federal Government.
That said, we live in a nation where the Federal Government has made a definitive ruling on the subject, and that's the law of the land. It's decided until Roe is overturned, and the states are quite limited in what they can do about it.
I have argued here and elsewhere that the left has already won most of the great social issues of the day. Frankly, these are not the ones that concern me most. It's the economic issues that hold us together as liberals, and that's why I have such little tolerance for 3rd-way types.
Here's what I said in 2009:
It's the economic issues that make us liberals.
But on all the significant social issues in America, the left has already won. We just haven't seen all our cultural victories translated into law yet, but we will. Republicans keep hammering these wedge issues, but they seldom act on them when they have the chance. They controlled the federal government between 2003 and 2006. They could have outlawed abortion, if they wanted, but they didn't. They know they have already lost that argument. Only their rabid base, a small and dwindling minority in this country, would support such a measure. The vast majority of the country is "socially liberal." That doesn't make them all our political allies.
As for foreign policy, while that's very important, I don't see a clear liberal/conservative distinction. I see differences between various administrations, but I don't think these differences are shaped by either classic liberalism or classic conservatism. Isolationism has often been considered a conservative position, for example, but the Bush administration wasn't isolationist at all. In fact, their aggressive foreign policy philosophy has been called "neo-liberalism." Ultimately, I am uncomfortable describing myself as either liberal or conservative on foreign policy. I just don't find those labels to be particularly useful.
So, because we've already won on the social issues, and because "liberal" and "conservative" are not terribly useful in describing people's opinions on foreign policy, I return to my assertion that it's the economic issues that matter. Whether people have homes, whether they have jobs, whether they can afford health care, whether our economy collapses, and whether people can afford to feed their families ... these are the issues that really matter. These are the issues most often affected by the laws passed in Congress. These are the areas where we most often disagree with Republicans. And it is on these issues where politicians show us whether or not they are liberal. The words "liberal" and "conservative" have real and profound meaning in the context of these issues.
Of course, the Republican Party is in dire straits. We have always has conservatives in the Democratic Party, and the Democratic Party will continue to attract more conservatives as the Republicans dwindle. We have to accept that fact, for the moment, but I will continue to reserve the word "liberal" for those politicians who show an inclination to act on behalf of the less fortunate in regards to the issues that matter most ... the economic ones.
But on all the significant social issues in America, the left has already won. We just haven't seen all our cultural victories translated into law yet, but we will. Republicans keep hammering these wedge issues, but they seldom act on them when they have the chance. They controlled the federal government between 2003 and 2006. They could have outlawed abortion, if they wanted, but they didn't. They know they have already lost that argument. Only their rabid base, a small and dwindling minority in this country, would support such a measure. The vast majority of the country is "socially liberal." That doesn't make them all our political allies.
As for foreign policy, while that's very important, I don't see a clear liberal/conservative distinction. I see differences between various administrations, but I don't think these differences are shaped by either classic liberalism or classic conservatism. Isolationism has often been considered a conservative position, for example, but the Bush administration wasn't isolationist at all. In fact, their aggressive foreign policy philosophy has been called "neo-liberalism." Ultimately, I am uncomfortable describing myself as either liberal or conservative on foreign policy. I just don't find those labels to be particularly useful.
So, because we've already won on the social issues, and because "liberal" and "conservative" are not terribly useful in describing people's opinions on foreign policy, I return to my assertion that it's the economic issues that matter. Whether people have homes, whether they have jobs, whether they can afford health care, whether our economy collapses, and whether people can afford to feed their families ... these are the issues that really matter. These are the issues most often affected by the laws passed in Congress. These are the areas where we most often disagree with Republicans. And it is on these issues where politicians show us whether or not they are liberal. The words "liberal" and "conservative" have real and profound meaning in the context of these issues.
Of course, the Republican Party is in dire straits. We have always has conservatives in the Democratic Party, and the Democratic Party will continue to attract more conservatives as the Republicans dwindle. We have to accept that fact, for the moment, but I will continue to reserve the word "liberal" for those politicians who show an inclination to act on behalf of the less fortunate in regards to the issues that matter most ... the economic ones.
Obviously, ymmv.
-Laelth
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Objecting to the removal of civil rights from half the population is censorship?
Warpy
Nov 2013
#139
Well, by the same token, religions oppose gay rights. So can someone be a Democrat
Squinch
Nov 2013
#78
Ok, so you want to to be able to advocate banning abortion and overturning roe v wade?
boston bean
Nov 2013
#70
I asked you if you felt it should be discussed here. You need to go back and re read.
boston bean
Nov 2013
#123
So, you want anti choice bullshit posted here on DU. Ok, now you've answered my question.
boston bean
Nov 2013
#136
It is denigrating, the entire stance is a denigration on women's autonomy.
boston bean
Nov 2013
#146
It is a dangerous and repressive opinion. We don't tolerate a lot of bullshit and right wing
morningfog
Nov 2013
#220
"What about women who use abortion as birth control" What kind of statement is that?
icymist
Nov 2013
#225
We are generally only confronted with hard core RW opinions until MIRT tombstones
Zorra
Nov 2013
#190
It seems to me there are plenty of right wing view points that are allowed and quite loud
NoOneMan
Nov 2013
#180
The answer he gave, more or less, was that someone could advocate that half the population
Squinch
Nov 2013
#51
If you are equating laws against minors smoking and drinking, and laws about seatbelts
Squinch
Nov 2013
#230
I think we have lost a lot of ground on reproductive choice - in some states there is no where,
bettyellen
Nov 2013
#13
"This is an important women's right that is under attack by the RW and it should not be acceptable
bettyellen
Nov 2013
#14
Do you think there are racists on DU? Do you think there are homophobes posting on DU.
boston bean
Nov 2013
#41
Seems to me that the person who chooses choice over limiting choice isn't forcing an opinion.
boston bean
Nov 2013
#149
There is a difference between being troubled by the concept of abortion and being anti-choice.
Warren DeMontague
Nov 2013
#32
Exactly. Advocating a legislative ban of a medical procedure is the problem
Cal Carpenter
Nov 2013
#39
If being ANTI-choice is not auto-bannable, what other extreme RW views are ok?
cleanhippie
Nov 2013
#116
I feel that way about defending a surveillance/police state and predatory economic policies
woo me with science
Nov 2013
#16
This thread is about anti choice, which is a rw position, not a left/democratic position.
boston bean
Nov 2013
#23
On issues of women having control of their own bodies, yes, I do want an echo chamber.
boston bean
Nov 2013
#28
Merely by being DEMOCRATIC Underground, it's bound to be something of one.
Warren DeMontague
Nov 2013
#44
DUers have gored all my oxen. If you hold on to one around here, it will get gored, too.
HereSince1628
Nov 2013
#35
It was more the blessing from admin that's it's ok as long as a poster is respectful and doesn't
boston bean
Nov 2013
#62
I don't think pro-life/anti - choice people should be allowed to post here.
Vashta Nerada
Nov 2013
#40
I agree. I think supporting (or at least, not openly opposing) CHOICE ought to be a basic
Warren DeMontague
Nov 2013
#42
*snap* "The Democratic Party strongly and unequivocally supports Roe v. Wade and a woman's right
Zorra
Nov 2013
#164
It is not pro choice. If there is only one choice given there is no choice.
boston bean
Nov 2013
#95
Wanting to ban abortions is a one way choice. Therefore that is not part of pro choice.
boston bean
Nov 2013
#111
Anti choice persons. I guess I'd have to hear your definition of pro life before I would agree.
boston bean
Nov 2013
#144
IMO, anti-choicers/forced birthers do not have a place on a democratic/liberal board. n/t
demmiblue
Nov 2013
#68
It's one thing to be against the concept of abortion for religious reasons,...
Spitfire of ATJ
Nov 2013
#75
What is the name of the witch we seeketh to burn? Seriously...this is useless without a link. nt
msanthrope
Nov 2013
#80
I agree...without links/posts, these threads are speculative and useless. nt
msanthrope
Nov 2013
#201
Hi Boston bean. i have seen a poster openly admit and espouse views against abortion
fascisthunter
Nov 2013
#101
Yeah. No. What we're talking about here is not something that should just be allowed
Squinch
Nov 2013
#223
But admin has given the ok as long as it's respectful and the poster isn't doing it all the time.
boston bean
Nov 2013
#160
Is what a standard admin policy? I can only speak to what I have linked to in the OP.
boston bean
Nov 2013
#168
Not that I am aware. But what other rights that dems support is there such understanding of those
boston bean
Nov 2013
#179
If someone were to come in and make an occasional racist or homophobic comment,
Squinch
Nov 2013
#224
Woops. I need to know they asked to expound further. I guess you are out of luck.
boston bean
Nov 2013
#183
I've never thought about it, but every other position in the world is debated on this board
NoOneMan
Nov 2013
#169
Have you read threads here justifying torture, spying, libertarian economics, droning, etc....
NoOneMan
Nov 2013
#177
Ok, so social issues are off limits? Right Wing Economic and Military policy still ok?
NoOneMan
Nov 2013
#185
Seems like jimmy carter as president accepted roe v wade as law of the land.
boston bean
Nov 2013
#192
My comment concerning many who are against abortion is they dwell on the stereotype.
haele
Nov 2013
#207
I think Skinner is wrong. There is no such thing as an anti-choice progressive.
morningfog
Nov 2013
#217
Whoever the admins want to keep on their site is their choice. But if someone is going to rail
hrmjustin
Nov 2013
#234