Welcome to DU! The truly grassroots left-of-center political community where regular people, not algorithms, drive the discussions and set the standards. Join the community: Create a free account Support DU (and get rid of ads!): Become a Star Member Latest Breaking News Editorials & Other Articles General Discussion The DU Lounge All Forums Issue Forums Culture Forums Alliance Forums Region Forums Support Forums Help & Search

hunter

(40,597 posts)
37. Nuclear power IS our only hope if we want civilization to continue as it now exists...
Sun Nov 3, 2013, 12:40 PM
Nov 2013

Personally I'm a pessimist. We are fucked. We won't ban the use of fossil fuels, therefore Mother Nature is going to deal with us the old fashioned way, by killing off large numbers of us. Our current civilization is a fragile thing. We can't keep this up. Exponential growth of a species always ends poorly. Humans are not exceptional, the earth has seen this kind of thing before.

If our entire civilization had gone nuclear as France did, sure there would still be accidents, but nothing to comparable to the damage done to earth by fossil fuels every day. Industrial toxins are what they are, radioactive or not. The toxins of industry fueled by fossil fuels are often far worse than minor accidental releases of radioactive toxins like tritium or iodine from nuclear power plants. Our use of coal spews more radioactive toxins into the environment daily than any properly running nuclear power plant, but nobody pays attention to that. And then there are the greenhouse gases...

I'd much rather live near a competently run nuclear plant or even a nuclear "waste" repository than an oil refinery or fracking fields. I'd rather get my power from a nuclear power plant than a fossil fuel power plant, either coal or natural gas. Natural gas is especially bullshit; it never was clean or "natural," and is even dirtier when it is obtained by fracking. Sure it has less carbon, but that only means our civilization dies a little later rather than sooner.

Solar and wind are not "drop-in" replacements for fossil fuels. Nuclear power potentially is, especially with the development of modern electric transportation systems like high speed rail and electric automobiles.

An advanced solar and wind powered society would look very different. It would not be a "consumer" society. The most common form of transportation would be walking or bicycles (and for the mobility impaired, electric legs, wheelchairs, etc...) There would be no personal automobiles, no airlines, no great highway projects. The pace of life would be slow.

I strive to minimize my own participation in "consumer" society. I don't respect our consumer society, and it doesn't much respect me.

When I was a young and foolish man I bought a new car. My kids learned to drive in it that car. I won't buy a new car again. And I'm not at all ashamed of the car I drive now, an $800 special that is older than our adult kids and has a salvage title. I don't care what the neighbor's think. My computers, my cell phone are all salvage too. I only replace my computers when I find a better one that's been discarded by someone else.

Even my wife thinks I'm on the far fringes, but we do agree on the larger lifestyle issues. We met in Los Angeles in the mid 1980s. We were automobile commuters then. We haven't been commuters for nearly a quarter century now. (That's a lot of fossil fuel we didn't use...) We both like to make, repair, or repurpose things, so we have that in common.

There are many things worth saving in this society. Much of the medicine, the science, the two-way worldwide communication systems, the arts... these are all worth keeping. But that still leaves a lot of crap.

Recommendations

0 members have recommended this reply (displayed in chronological order):

Something like a LFTR design? dairydog91 Nov 2013 #1
international Thorium Energy Conference, ThEC13, at CERN, in Geneva Switzerland, October 27 to 31 FarCenter Nov 2013 #2
A fukushima in every garage! Warren Stupidity Nov 2013 #3
I don't think that they are proposing obsolete and dangerous American designs. FarCenter Nov 2013 #4
Proliferation of nuclear power generation on the scale required Warren Stupidity Nov 2013 #6
Not using modern designs it won't. gcomeau Nov 2013 #9
The old designs were "safe" when they were deployed too. Warren Stupidity Nov 2013 #16
"...safer nuclear power..." 99Forever Nov 2013 #5
Nuke power can be designed to be safe, don't use materials that can be weapons grade or close uponit7771 Nov 2013 #7
Nuclear will always involve creating a mess mining for it, processing it, using it for fuel. Plus- KittyWampus Nov 2013 #12
The older way of processing materials for nukes will. Thorium is abundant uponit7771 Nov 2013 #15
Unless Thorium falls from the sky everywhere, it's a waste and messy. KittyWampus Nov 2013 #38
Nuclear Power Generation Is Not Safe. It Cannot Be Made to Be Safe. MineralMan Nov 2013 #8
You are incorrect. gcomeau Nov 2013 #10
We disagree, it seems. MineralMan Nov 2013 #11
Old nuke energy I agree, new nuke energy I disagree... Cars designed 40 years ago are less safe uponit7771 Nov 2013 #13
I disagree. One problem lies in the commercial nature of MineralMan Nov 2013 #14
Radiation during the generation of course is dangers but can be contained now vs before uponit7771 Nov 2013 #19
Any and all systems, both human and nature made, will fail eventually seveneyes Nov 2013 #20
That is true enough. Solar, hydro, and wind power MineralMan Nov 2013 #23
All courses of action to continue human civilization carry risk. FarCenter Nov 2013 #17
Indeed. Where we can see and measure the risks in advance, however, MineralMan Nov 2013 #22
The scientists in the OP opine that the risks of nuclear are less than climate change without it FarCenter Nov 2013 #24
Nuclear power kicks ass, we need more, and about 100 billion a year snooper2 Nov 2013 #29
Yah, OK, then. MineralMan Nov 2013 #32
Never a single blip in any of these articles IDemo Nov 2013 #18
Even if the 3 billion in developed nations back off, there are another 4 to 6 billion using more FarCenter Nov 2013 #21
I wasn't speaking of petroleum resources, at least not exclusively IDemo Nov 2013 #27
Add to that the minerals and material that would go into alternative energy FarCenter Nov 2013 #40
Then we need to rethink how much power we need and change our lifestyles BECAUSE: Tikki Nov 2013 #25
I tend to agree. k&r n/t Laelth Nov 2013 #26
if one wants to sustain current levels of electrical usage - solar and wind would not be enough Douglas Carpenter Nov 2013 #28
Or "electrical" usage? IDemo Nov 2013 #30
that was the spell checker fucking with me Douglas Carpenter Nov 2013 #31
If the human race really put a Manhattan Project scale effort into renewables daleo Nov 2013 #33
Up fast enough? RobertEarl Nov 2013 #34
Then we are truly fucked. nt mother earth Nov 2013 #35
Fuck that. We could scale up in 2 years if it weren't for capitalists/capitalism preventing it Zorra Nov 2013 #36
Nuclear power IS our only hope if we want civilization to continue as it now exists... hunter Nov 2013 #37
We just have to change our mode of thinking RobertEarl Nov 2013 #41
How much electricity would we generate... roamer65 Nov 2013 #39
Fukushima laughs at this. WinkyDink Nov 2013 #42
Latest Discussions»General Discussion»Experts Say Nuclear Power...»Reply #37