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Drahthaardogs

(6,843 posts)

119. I doubt they were lying, it is just that a lot of people do not understand love.

Reply to Manifestor_of_Light (Reply #45)

Sun Nov 3, 2013, 09:07 PM

Nov 2013

Ask someone what the opposite of love is, and they will say "hate", or the more clever answer "apathy". Of course, neither answer is correct. The opposite of love is manipulation.

Love is acting entirely in the interests of the other person for their sake alone. It is completely and totally unselfish. When you manipulate, you are acting on YOUR own interests to try to get the desired response.

So yes, giving your wife flowers hoping to have sex is not a loving gesture but giving her flowers to help cheer her up after a bad day is a loving gesture. Buying your kid designer clothes so YOU can be sure the other parent's notice is also not a loving gesture, working an extra job so you can afford the Air Jordans so the kid will not feel left on with the rest of the basketball team is a loving gesture.

Working on yourself as a human being is a lifelong venture.

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Why are men choosing not to marry anymore? [View all] Harmony Blue Nov 2013 OP

Having one wife is plenty. TheCowsCameHome Nov 2013 #1

... Gormy Cuss Nov 2013 #92

! Adsos Letter Nov 2013 #106

DUzy! truebluegreen Nov 2013 #235

not enough doormats? niyad Nov 2013 #2

Damn, seriously? tkmorris Nov 2013 #4

Yes, really. ChisolmTrailDem Nov 2013 #49

Well, if it's mainly those men staying single, that's a plus tkmorris Nov 2013 #98

Since you admit to there being "too many assholes" among your gender, whathehell Nov 2013 #153

wow-how utterly hilarious. you admit that there are too many assholes amoung your gender, but niyad Nov 2013 #262

Yeah, actually I DO call them on it, though not often tkmorris Nov 2013 #263

pace niyad Nov 2013 #264

You don't have to be married to treat someone (or be treated) ... Fantastic Anarchist Nov 2013 #252

is it the men or the women choosing? hollysmom Nov 2013 #3

I love the challenge a long term relationship brings. It makes me reflect on my behaviors and helps liberal_at_heart Nov 2013 #6

Ihave long term relationships hollysmom Nov 2013 #23

Great point seattle15 Nov 2013 #25

Yeah I love the old fashioned assumption treestar Nov 2013 #73

Exactly ismnotwasm Nov 2013 #118

I think that's a good question. Gormy Cuss Nov 2013 #93

Not marrying anymore? JimboBillyBubbaBob Nov 2013 #5

Because more women are choosing not to marry. Because women don't need to be married Squinch Nov 2013 #7

Some men don't want to grow up. And if women are going back to "being taken care of"... haele Nov 2013 #8

Childless by choice marriages are more common FarCenter Nov 2013 #10

I can understand that argument completely, although I have three children myself BlueCaliDem Nov 2013 #81

My suspicion: Brigid Nov 2013 #9

I think this is the most accurate answer or close to it Harmony Blue Nov 2013 #27

my husband's friend just got married. They both have good paying stable jobs. My husband and I were liberal_at_heart Nov 2013 #29

Absolutely! pink-o Nov 2013 #216

Marriage, in general, has changed SoCalDem Nov 2013 #11

All of these factors are influencing some portion of the young population. Dawson Leery Nov 2013 #18

My 18 yr old daughter plans on marrying. She has watched her father and me over the years and liberal_at_heart Nov 2013 #19

My brother and sister in law have a relationship like yours... Walk away Nov 2013 #84

So true davidpdx Nov 2013 #161

Freedom from sometimes unreasonable entanglements in an irrational world. Additionally, RKP5637 Nov 2013 #12

Why should they? treestar Nov 2013 #13

There are some good reasons for marriage for some people. bluestate10 Nov 2013 #63

nail, meet hammer, excellent post nt steve2470 Nov 2013 #164

Economic stagnation DireStrike Nov 2013 #14

because they don't have to Douglas Carpenter Nov 2013 #15

+1, n/t RKP5637 Nov 2013 #59

Family history in the 19th century reveals a number of bachelor uncles and maiden aunts FarCenter Nov 2013 #86

I had several great aunts who never married Art_from_Ark Nov 2013 #265

Then why have I been writing letters in support of same sex marriage? lumberjack_jeff Nov 2013 #88

It's actually a good question why the biggest issues of LGBT activism are Jesus Malverde Nov 2013 #96

I don't agree. I think that equality means one thing. lumberjack_jeff Nov 2013 #110

What percentage of LGBT people will actually marry? FarCenter Nov 2013 #151

I don't see why it would be any different. lumberjack_jeff Nov 2013 #154

Why do you believe that? MNBrewer Nov 2013 #212

Lots of gay couples will be childless and marriage will be less important FarCenter Nov 2013 #220

I think that's buying into the "children as a rationale for marriage" a bit too much. MNBrewer Nov 2013 #244

I think the LGBT community wants the right to marry Mz Pip Nov 2013 #230

Women my age are so old....... rdharma Nov 2013 #16

and so many men my age can't. . . . . niyad Nov 2013 #74

I hear you, in reverse of course! JNelson6563 Nov 2013 #166

This male decided to get healthy after 40. tridim Nov 2013 #234

I see marriage mostly as an institution to provide security to children Sen. Walter Sobchak Nov 2013 #17

Perhaps because marriage has become an avebury Nov 2013 #20

I only married my wife because she needed health insurance NickB79 Nov 2013 #21

Congratulations Nick79. liberal_at_heart Nov 2013 #22

This was 3 years ago NickB79 Nov 2013 #47

My Dad Was A Teamster ProfessorGAC Nov 2013 #66

Marriage is becoming more socially stratified mythology Nov 2013 #24

My husband was 20 and I was 18 when we got married and had our first child. We were dirt poor. liberal_at_heart Nov 2013 #26

This message was self-deleted by its author LiberalLoner Nov 2013 #50

Are we related? You're talking about my nieces. :) bermudat Nov 2013 #105

This message was self-deleted by its author LiberalLoner Nov 2013 #247

Some truth to this JustAnotherGen Nov 2013 #231

I think that's always been true though. wickerwoman Nov 2013 #266

Gays have destroyed the sanctity of it. Cannikin Nov 2013 #28

ROFL grahamhgreen Nov 2013 #51

I waited until I was 36. I'm the child of divorce Nevernose Nov 2013 #30

You made a very thoughtful decision and will likely have a long, happy marriage because of it. liberal_at_heart Nov 2013 #31

That is an excellent reason davidpdx Nov 2013 #162

If I had it to do over, I wouldn't... KansDem Nov 2013 #32

Not legal for me. Behind the Aegis Nov 2013 #33

not yet. DesertFlower Nov 2013 #36

Fingers crossed, but I don't hold out much hope for it to be soon. Behind the Aegis Nov 2013 #37

even if it becomes legal in your state DesertFlower Nov 2013 #43

Yup...sadly, it is one right of which I cannot partake. Behind the Aegis Nov 2013 #44

so unfair. when my friend's ex SO died DesertFlower Nov 2013 #46

Typically, if you die without a will, half the estate goes to the spouse and half to the children. FarCenter Nov 2013 #222

You missed a really big story this year. ieoeja Nov 2013 #241

That so sucks! Le Taz Hot Nov 2013 #67

Soon! JNelson6563 Nov 2013 #167

me too irisblue Nov 2013 #185

Hell yeah its awesome! IronLionZion Nov 2013 #34

A nasty divorce and custody battle between my sister and her ex... roamer65 Nov 2013 #141

The Perfect Excuse left on green only Nov 2013 #158

What supports "men choosing not to marry anymore" anyway? flvegan Nov 2013 #35

Because Obama. NYC_SKP Nov 2013 #38

lol treestar Nov 2013 #55

Everytime I see this it cracks me up..... Avalux Nov 2013 #77

It is clearly the women who are choosing larkrake Nov 2013 #39

that is not true for everyone. I know lots of couples who get married but chose not to have liberal_at_heart Nov 2013 #40

agreed... we totally got married for US ProdigalJunkMail Nov 2013 #65

good question. the other DesertFlower Nov 2013 #41

What's that sayin'..."if you're getting the milk free, why...?" demosincebirth Nov 2013 #42

Or "why buy the whole pig when all you want is a little sausage?" Freddie Nov 2013 #58

really? and they call women sluts if they have sex out of marriage. really? nt seabeyond Nov 2013 #90

Who is they? IronLionZion Nov 2013 #210

Ol� Ghost Dog Nov 2013 #242

Yes, and that works both ways. polly7 Nov 2013 #111

I agree with you. I'm just quoting an ol' saying. nt demosincebirth Nov 2013 #136

Oh, I know! :) polly7 Nov 2013 #137

Afraid of being tied down. Going on for decades. Manifestor_of_Light Nov 2013 #45

Some people come into marriage lying. I don't understand that type, whether bluestate10 Nov 2013 #64

I doubt they were lying, it is just that a lot of people do not understand love. Drahthaardogs Nov 2013 #119

I think it was manipulation and active desire to hurt me. And lying. Manifestor_of_Light Nov 2013 #142

I can't answer for "men" only for me. Chan790 Nov 2013 #48

My other girlfriends wouldn't like it :) grahamhgreen Nov 2013 #52

I married my wife for her 1969 Ford Torino GT Fastback, god I loved that car! B Calm Nov 2013 #53

A lot of them have live in girlfriends, the best of all worlds. Warpy Nov 2013 #54

Maybe the women aren't? treestar Nov 2013 #56

I just read an article that says that women are the ones choosing not to marry cali Nov 2013 #57

I choose to focus on business. I wouldn't be able to spend the time with her bluestate10 Nov 2013 #60

Fascinating thread. Lots of interesting insight. k&r for exposure. n/t Laelth Nov 2013 #61

Because divorce sucks thelordofhell Nov 2013 #62

The economic need for two incomes is destroying the American family Taitertots Nov 2013 #68

A bit of music for the thread. Bluenorthwest Nov 2013 #69

. lumberjack_jeff Nov 2013 #89

If I had to guess (and I do) Shankapotomus Nov 2013 #70

I tried it twice madville Nov 2013 #71

Because women are doing background checks. nt Zorra Nov 2013 #72

you nearly owed me a keyboard! niyad Nov 2013 #75

Given gender rates at university, I think less women are finding elegible mates eom TransitJohn Nov 2013 #76

Maybe it's women choosing not to get married. nt geek tragedy Nov 2013 #78

A lot of men choose not to marry any more because the divorce laws are so unfair against them. nt aaaaaa5a Nov 2013 #79

have they changed? No. I know two women who pay alimony, so that's nonsense. bettyellen Nov 2013 #103

You have to be incredibly biased to not realize the issues men face in family court. aaaaaa5a Nov 2013 #117

Women pay child support in Texas, and Texas doesn't have "alimony". Manifestor_of_Light Nov 2013 #269

I agree PowerToThePeople Nov 2013 #189

The economic and social compulsion for it, for both genders, is diminished Recursion Nov 2013 #80

Because the women they are dating are forcing arthritisR_US Nov 2013 #82

:) redqueen Nov 2013 #83

It is no longer a social requirement for sex marshall Nov 2013 #85

Because they are less able to take care of a family financially than previous generations. lumberjack_jeff Nov 2013 #87

interesting of the three close friends I know of well enough to have heard the stories bettyellen Nov 2013 #102

I'm not so sure it is just men. Plenty of woman make that choice also. jwirr Nov 2013 #91

I gave it a shot. ForgoTheConsequence Nov 2013 #94

are they? La Lioness Priyanka Nov 2013 #95

there is an active and bitter anti-woman/marriage movement grasswire Nov 2013 #97

lol, living a loser life and blaming it on women. hmmmm, lol. no surprise there. really? wow. seabeyond Nov 2013 #99

Not a surprise. Katashi_itto Nov 2013 #120

men arent getting educated, getting jobs, marrying and being fathers cause they are anti women seabeyond Nov 2013 #121

You see "anti-women" under every stone. Hiding around every corner. Katashi_itto Nov 2013 #123

uh... you might want to actually fuckin READ the post i responded to. for fuck sake. seabeyond Nov 2013 #124

As grammatically challenged as it was...I did. Quote: Katashi_itto Nov 2013 #125

"active and bitter anti-woman/marriage movement" the post i replied to. seabeyond Nov 2013 #126

All anyone has to do is look at your previous/old posts Katashi_itto Nov 2013 #127

ah... so you finally get how FAILED your argument is and now you back pedal to....???? seabeyond Nov 2013 #128

Not at all. Why would I respond to incoherent babbling? Katashi_itto Nov 2013 #129

you fail in argument three or more posts, and now you are saying you did not respond seabeyond Nov 2013 #131

Keep telling yourself it's everyone else Katashi_itto Nov 2013 #133

Sea, it is clear in this sub-thread what you were saying. NCTraveler Nov 2013 #219

thank you nc for actually addressing the words i use. i appreciate it more than you know. nt seabeyond Nov 2013 #225

+1 redqueen Nov 2013 #236

Sexism is endemic to society. BainsBane Nov 2013 #149

Ah, an attempt at biting commentary from BB Katashi_itto Nov 2013 #163

Your point is quite clear BainsBane Nov 2013 #268

Shall we look up some of yours? BainsBane Nov 2013 #270

"Loser Life" Hissyspit Nov 2013 #218

These are men who blame feminists for all their problems redqueen Nov 2013 #237

I typically put it more diplomatically BainsBane Nov 2013 #271

What you stumbled on is far right wing BainsBane Nov 2013 #145

are you saying the movement does not exist? grasswire Nov 2013 #146

Sorry, I've gotten myself confused here BainsBane Nov 2013 #147

going Galt? PowerToThePeople Nov 2013 #190

That's pretty much some crackpot fringe BS. HappyMe Nov 2013 #205

I've always wondered how many of these types actually exist? It can't be many. Dash87 Nov 2013 #213

didnt you watch the google video when tehy put in feminist should... die, be killed? put in women seabeyond Nov 2013 #224

I'm talking about organized MRA groups in particular. Dash87 Nov 2013 #248

i see. gotcha. thank you for clarification. would be interesting to know the numbers. seabeyond Nov 2013 #249

My reason is probably different than most. tapermaker Nov 2013 #100

been there, done that.... mike_c Nov 2013 #101

Maybe young people (men and women) are not rushing marriage because they are better educated, redgreenandblue Nov 2013 #104

Men are not no better educated than they were 30 years ago lumberjack_jeff Nov 2013 #109

Better educated tc45a Nov 2013 #112

If we were working less hours, I would say "good". However, that is not true. lumberjack_jeff Nov 2013 #156

Work schedule precluded it when it was most likely for me; Then bachelor inertia took over Populist_Prole Nov 2013 #107

I'm very happily married now Blue_In_AK Nov 2013 #108

I'm not even sure that's true. MineralMan Nov 2013 #113

I love being married tc45a Nov 2013 #114

As a guy, I see no reason to get married. Proles Nov 2013 #115

I'm engaged, but why bother getting married, really? Codeine Nov 2013 #130

Don't wait too long the good ones get picked over quick tc45a Nov 2013 #253

Yes, that is true, but I would refuse to marry if only out of fear of "growing old alone." Proles Nov 2013 #259

The younger woman older man tc45a Nov 2013 #261

Marriage is a trap, but mostly for women. alarimer Nov 2013 #116

I think the reason a lot of women choose not to marry these days (or remarry) is raccoon Nov 2013 #122

If your man expects to be "waited on, placated, and catered to" then he's a lazy jerk! Dash87 Nov 2013 #215

ITA. IMO and IME, many men my age and older have that mindset. nt raccoon Nov 2013 #245

.... DeSwiss Nov 2013 #132

I am married. I went to a friend's party ejpoeta Nov 2013 #134

I'm in my 40's and never saw a reason to get married. Marr Nov 2013 #135

I'm in my late 20's and I have yet to meet a woman I can date for a few months months, let alone... Hippo_Tron Nov 2013 #138

I think its a good thing. roamer65 Nov 2013 #139

Subthread at response #97. n/t flvegan Nov 2013 #140

0-6 jury leave on your post. nt msanthrope Nov 2013 #144

ah, clever woman. he was insulting you too. he was just using me to insult all of us. brilliant. seabeyond Nov 2013 #172

I don't think he was insulting anyone..thus the 0-6 jury verdict. nt msanthrope Nov 2013 #173

you do not? then tell me what he was talking about the reason men are not marrying in that SUBTHREAD seabeyond Nov 2013 #174

I don't have to prove anything to you. An 0-6 jury verdict puts the burden of proof on you. nt msanthrope Nov 2013 #175

lmfao.... he insults all women and for whatever reason, you think you are insulated. as if really, seabeyond Nov 2013 #176

Who, precisely, is your "oppressor" today? I really couldn't get anything else msanthrope Nov 2013 #178

you made the statement he was not insulting anyone. yet you do not feel any need to clarify the seabeyond Nov 2013 #179

The 0-6 jury on the alert means I don't have to clarify anything. Who on this board msanthrope Nov 2013 #182

no misnathrope. the fact you have no argument and this man insulted me and women in seabeyond Nov 2013 #183

I don't have to have an argument. I agree with the verdict. It is you msanthrope Nov 2013 #184

ok msanthrope. allow flvegan to insult all women without speaking out. you make his "good" seabeyond Nov 2013 #186

He didn't insult anyone...it is you and grasswire who were rude. And the fact that you apparently msanthrope Nov 2013 #192

you squirmed a whole lot, but i guess you wiggled yourself into what you can comfortably call an seabeyond Nov 2013 #193

back to this. so basically you are saying it is in my "tone". i was not "nice enough" addressing seabeyond Nov 2013 #195

Um, no. Your tone was the least offensive thing about that subthread. nt msanthrope Nov 2013 #197

yes. i get it. the good woman shall not be offensive when addressing the offensive. seabeyond Nov 2013 #198

No...no one should post bullshit from a blogger at Pajamas Media on a Democratic msanthrope Nov 2013 #199

well, once again, you make assumptions to create an argument. not the way to go woman. now.... seabeyond Nov 2013 #200

Pajamas Media bloggers are acceptable sources on gender conflict? You are the one who msanthrope Nov 2013 #203

apologize for what? not having posted that dribble. fuck, you are funny. lol. seabeyond Nov 2013 #204

Oh...we agree. I think you are done with this thread. nt msanthrope Nov 2013 #208

No..good DUers shouldn't insult other DUers by using Pajamas Media for their sources msanthrope Nov 2013 #201

the only insults toward duers are coming my way. i snarked at an offensive anti woman post. you seabeyond Nov 2013 #202

You and grasswire used an inappropriate winger source to argue gender politics. msanthrope Nov 2013 #206

no. grasswire made a post. and i called it out. that simple. then the other poster jumped in seabeyond Nov 2013 #207

I don't find your defense persuasive. nt msanthrope Nov 2013 #209

Of course it isn't persuasive. Just the facts. No assumption, false accusation or insults. seabeyond Nov 2013 #214

LOL, no idea if you are really serious. nt Logical Nov 2013 #180

then you clarify his statement. what is he saying? the subthread is why men are not marrying. seabeyond Nov 2013 #181

I'm right here. flvegan Nov 2013 #276

What floors me...I mean really floors me...is the lack of picked up social cues. If msanthrope Nov 2013 #188

kinda like flvegan rudely insulting me and crying victim of women like me.... bah hahahah. you are seabeyond Nov 2013 #191

It is you...and whomever alerted...who cried 'victim.' And no one has insulted msanthrope Nov 2013 #194

uh hu. lol seabeyond Nov 2013 #196

Back up you post. flvegan Nov 2013 #272

Back up how I "insult(s) all women" flvegan Nov 2013 #273

Actually she is married. BainsBane Nov 2013 #148

Stay classy. nt redqueen Nov 2013 #155

Will do, learn from it. n/t flvegan Nov 2013 #275

A truly compelling argument. n/t lumberjack_jeff Nov 2013 #157

what would the compelling argument be jeff? cause you are playing awfully subtle here, but really, seabeyond Nov 2013 #171

The belief that all women's problems can be externalized onto men is a turnoff. lumberjack_jeff Nov 2013 #217

ah, so addressing an anti woman org is being anti man. gotcha. we will disagree with the rest of seabeyond Nov 2013 #226

thought. a black calling those in KKK losers, a gay calling those in westboro losers. seabeyond Nov 2013 #251

Women are to men as blacks are to the KKK? lumberjack_jeff Nov 2013 #254

Women are to men what blacks are to whites. Or, women are to men's hate groups what blacks seabeyond Nov 2013 #258

what are you saying? that i am the reason men arent marrying? i represent all women, and this is seabeyond Nov 2013 #170

Post removed Post removed Nov 2013 #221

and the blatant misrepresentation by pulling out a couple words in a whole sentence. amazing. seabeyond Nov 2013 #228

Umm yeah... Katashi_itto Nov 2013 #238

Why is it all about YOU seabeyond? flvegan Nov 2013 #274

Economics, age, desire for family. Missn-Hitch Nov 2013 #143

I can only speak for myself > BlueJazz Nov 2013 #150

Funny, because I encounter lots of married men BainsBane Nov 2013 #152

If your premise is true, could it be that fewer women are demanding marriage? Egalitarian Thug Nov 2013 #159

If it were not for the rights and privileges that go along with marriage LostOne4Ever Nov 2013 #160

way too many people, past and present, get married for the wrong reasons steve2470 Nov 2013 #165

Twerking. Iphones. Video Games. Bisphenol-A. Not enough Jesus. Porn! Post-Modernism. Warren DeMontague Nov 2013 #168

.......... steve2470 Nov 2013 #169

Miley Cyrus' twerking caused me to break off an engagement! JVS Nov 2013 #255

You think that's bad? It caused me to break off a FINGER! Warren DeMontague Nov 2013 #257

Social freedom get the red out Nov 2013 #177

Gotta get one to come near me first :P Arkana Nov 2013 #187

Marriage is a construct... CoffeeCat Nov 2013 #211

+1 PasadenaTrudy Nov 2013 #223

*HAPPY ANNIVERSARY!* whatchamacallit Nov 2013 #227

It Is Not Worth The Risk Of Divorce cantbeserious Nov 2013 #229

The single life is for kids, men do get married. Omnith Nov 2013 #232

It just never happened for me yet. Xyzse Nov 2013 #233

Mutual decision, extended adolescence, bro culture, and a crap economy Prism Nov 2013 #239

Because many of them are afflicted with the Peter Pan syndrome. Beacool Nov 2013 #240

I don't agree with you but I welcome your perspective Harmony Blue Nov 2013 #243

What about women that decide that they don't wish to marry? HappyMe Nov 2013 #246

Another factor: the decline of religion's stranglehold on these matters. Arugula Latte Nov 2013 #250

I'm getting married on March 8th next year. Puzzledtraveller Nov 2013 #256

Personally, I married once and it was a disaster. TroglodyteScholar Nov 2013 #260

Yes. wickerwoman Nov 2013 #267