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MADem

(135,425 posts)

166. Yep. I'll bet if he had it to do over again, he would have gone to see his

Sun Nov 3, 2013, 11:48 PM

Nov 2013

hero, Rand Paul, and done his "whistleblowing" through the Senate Intel Committee, not put his life in the hands of Assange, Greenwald, et. al.

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Is Snowden buying asylum by fanning the flames of anti-Americanism? [View all] gulliver Nov 2013 OP

It is not Anti-American to do what he did .... Vox Moi Nov 2013 #1

It's not back and white karynnj Nov 2013 #60

If he had told Rand Paul or Pat Leahy, the NSA would have spied on his communications, JDPriestly Nov 2013 #65

I suggest you look into Leahy's history karynnj Nov 2013 #67

But how would he have communicated with Leahy without the NSA finding out? JDPriestly Nov 2013 #201

Easy karynnj Nov 2013 #218

While in Hawaii? Puhleese. JDPriestly Nov 2013 #229

Before he went to Hawaii - where he spend time pulling documents to leak karynnj Nov 2013 #230

But China is safe and looks like a vacation even from Hawaii. JDPriestly Nov 2013 #231

Sorry - I have to disagree karynnj Nov 2013 #233

Who cares if it's harmful? We deserve it. alarimer Nov 2013 #82

BAZINGA! HangOnKids Nov 2013 #137

You suggest that Senators would have disclosed the info Greenwald disclosed Cordelio Maldonado Nov 2013 #141

Great point and welcome to DU! nt riderinthestorm Nov 2013 #143

thanks nt Cordelio Maldonado Nov 2013 #147

Come back soon, again...nt SidDithers Nov 2013 #228

Agreed! JDPriestly Nov 2013 #64

There was nothing patriotic about him leaking information pnwmom Nov 2013 #95

Agreed. mimi85 Nov 2013 #176

Thank you! nt kelliekat44 Nov 2013 #210

+1,000 Scuba Nov 2013 #209

EPIC FAIL FreakinDJ Nov 2013 #2

The Constitution is overrated Cali_Democrat Nov 2013 #161

GW Bush said the Constitution was just a godamn piece of paper riderinthestorm Nov 2013 #177

LOL Cali_Democrat Nov 2013 #179

Agreed - the parliamentary democracies are founded on more solid principles. Maedhros Nov 2013 #185

Debtors Dungeon, Guilty till Proven Innocent, Selling children into Sweat Shops FreakinDJ Nov 2013 #207

Exposing illegal and unethical behavior by rogue agencies is now "dirty pool." last1standing Nov 2013 #3

very good question..and the answer is because this administration is doing it.. xiamiam Nov 2013 #17

What did he warn the American people about? randome Nov 2013 #21

Either you haven't been keeping up on this subject or you are trying to mislead posters. last1standing Nov 2013 #37

Yes. They do all of that and more. randome Nov 2013 #42

Nice try at parsing words, but even then you are not correct. last1standing Nov 2013 #48

Part of it is because of the interconnectedness of information today. randome Nov 2013 #53

Lol! Your persistent denial of the importance of this story gets more amusing every day. riderinthestorm Nov 2013 #59

According to the New York Times, yesterday, they hire 35,000 employees to review all the junk JDPriestly Nov 2013 #70

According to the New York Times... randome Nov 2013 #72

LOL! So now it's the 'sensible woodchuck' argument. last1standing Nov 2013 #74

What do you think prevents the FBI from snooping on you? The CIA? randome Nov 2013 #76

That is exactly why we're "hand-wringing and screaming" as you put it. last1standing Nov 2013 #79

You keep saying they're spying on us. randome Nov 2013 #80

I keep saying it because we have proof that they are. last1standing Nov 2013 #87

Does the FBI spy on us when they suspect us of a crime? Or the way the NSA does it? Cordelio Maldonado Nov 2013 #99

It's still not against the law to monitor foreign communications. randome Nov 2013 #142

Randome, please explain to me why we taxpayers should pay 35,000 employees to sort through JDPriestly Nov 2013 #69

I don't think it's worth it. I never said I support the NSA in everything they do. randome Nov 2013 #75

This program has lots of victims. Taxpayers to start with. JDPriestly Nov 2013 #84

Great! You and Mike Rogers (R) are on the exact same page. last1standing Nov 2013 #88

We will make it illegal. The NSA is just courting a huge scandal. JDPriestly Nov 2013 #68

Again, I agree. Shift the money to more useful purposes. randome Nov 2013 #78

because you are not rogue if everyone else is doing the same thing VanillaRhapsody Nov 2013 #126

Really? I didn't know that other countries were bound by our Constitution and laws. last1standing Nov 2013 #155

Rogue is the operative word here.... VanillaRhapsody Nov 2013 #157

Rogue IS the operative word and I'm not sure you understand what it means. last1standing Nov 2013 #158

being "A" singular!!!!! VanillaRhapsody Nov 2013 #164

And please tell me how your interpretation of the definition varies from what I stated. last1standing Nov 2013 #170

If the entire First World's spying agencies are doing the same....as I have established. VanillaRhapsody Nov 2013 #171

I forget... what's it called when someone states something that they know isn't true? last1standing Nov 2013 #172

the same evidence...SNOWDEN himself! VanillaRhapsody Nov 2013 #173

No World Leaders huh? VanillaRhapsody Nov 2013 #174

If you think none of these other countries would spy on PBO....you have another think coming! VanillaRhapsody Nov 2013 #175

Three posts in response and not one of them responds to my repeated statement. last1standing Nov 2013 #178

Whiskey Tango Foxtrot? How the hell would I prove that? VanillaRhapsody Nov 2013 #181

If you can't prove it, don't assert it as evidence unless you want to be called out. last1standing Nov 2013 #184

I havent asserted it....I have asserted that ALL nations are spying on each other! VanillaRhapsody Nov 2013 #186

You asserted that other countries would tap Obama's phone if they could. You have no proof of that. last1standing Nov 2013 #188

in fact...here is anther one... VanillaRhapsody Nov 2013 #187

"You cannot show one instance of another country tapping President Obama's cell phone." brush Nov 2013 #190

This need to act as though those of us who state the NSA is out of control are naive is disingenuous last1standing Nov 2013 #192

Absolutely. mimi85 Nov 2013 #180

What in the world do they think "SPYS" do? VanillaRhapsody Nov 2013 #182

We're bound by international law to not torture people. We do. NuclearDem Nov 2013 #167

As far as spying goes...We are Not...since now the same source says they are too! VanillaRhapsody Nov 2013 #168

Germany isn't an imperial power, neither is Mexico, Brazil, or Italy. NuclearDem Nov 2013 #169

There's a reason there were flames to fan in the first place. NuclearDem Nov 2013 #4

The NSA is ...UnAmerican. eom G_j Nov 2013 #5

How is Snowden being any different than many Americans? AZ Progressive Nov 2013 #6

Simple solution. Give him his passport back and let him decide where to live. Tierra_y_Libertad Nov 2013 #7

America's actions portray itself as the "Great Spying Satan." OnyxCollie Nov 2013 #8

pretending other countries aren't also spying is for very foolish people. KittyWampus Nov 2013 #24

No other country except maybe China is spying like we do. JDPriestly Nov 2013 #73

Oh but you are wrong...and here it is from the Guardian VanillaRhapsody Nov 2013 #123

Did you read the entire article carefully? JDPriestly Nov 2013 #203

Who's pretending that other countries are not spying? Cordelio Maldonado Nov 2013 #144

Not that I'm a big fan of the NSA, Jamaal510 Nov 2013 #9

yep. n/t Whisp Nov 2013 #11

I agree and I think it is "exposing" something else frankly... VanillaRhapsody Nov 2013 #16

What good would it do to complain? Luminous Animal Nov 2013 #19

well, first of all you wouldn't look like a hypocrite. And it's funny you talk about China KittyWampus Nov 2013 #25

The idea that the Germans wouldn't spy on any foreigners treestar Nov 2013 #97

Complaining about Germany, Canada, England, etc. is like spitting in the wind. Luminous Animal Nov 2013 #160

A perfectly logical position. ronnie624 Nov 2013 #196

Do you think your complaints have influence over US spying policies? joshcryer Nov 2013 #183

I know that my activism does on a local and state level. I know that Snowden's Luminous Animal Nov 2013 #189

I think our vote can matter on a local level. joshcryer Nov 2013 #205

So what are these important foreign spying revelations Bradical79 Nov 2013 #34

No other country will be spying to the extent that we are. JDPriestly Nov 2013 #77

See if you find this funny Laughing Mirror Nov 2013 #41

Bingo. SnoGreen is going out of their way to hurt our standing with our allies Hekate Nov 2013 #47

Links to the source that Snowden dumped "everything into the hands of our enemies"? nt riderinthestorm Nov 2013 #55

Sharing the data with Government ran chinese media enough? uponit7771 Nov 2013 #86

Sharing that the NSA was hacking Chinese computers is "everything"? riderinthestorm Nov 2013 #118

+1 uponit7771 Nov 2013 #85

And they go even more quiet when the info is released that other countries use the NSA info to Number23 Nov 2013 #159

Germany, Brazil, Mexico, and Italy aren't hyperimperial powers. NuclearDem Nov 2013 #165

I think Snowden and Greenwald are exposing the full extent of NSA surveillance and this is winning Douglas Carpenter Nov 2013 #10

LOL! Mainly Russia. KittyWampus Nov 2013 #26

mainly America - Douglas Carpenter Nov 2013 #39

I hope he eventually wins more prestigious boomersense Nov 2013 #38

You do realize that their countries do it to? VanillaRhapsody Nov 2013 #124

the fact that foreign agencies worked with the NSA shows a global level of mass surveillance that Douglas Carpenter Nov 2013 #197

Which is why all the U.S. bashing over it is hypocritical.... VanillaRhapsody Nov 2013 #198

I'm not interested in U.S. bashing or Obama bashing - I'm interested in restraining Douglas Carpenter Nov 2013 #208

Then stop JUST focusing on the NSA...its much bigger than that! VanillaRhapsody Nov 2013 #213

I don't have any say in how any other country deals with their intelligence gatheirng Douglas Carpenter Nov 2013 #214

but the point to THIS conversation is...it is NOT rogue... VanillaRhapsody Nov 2013 #215

the point of this conversation is Douglas Carpenter Nov 2013 #216

but not rogue... VanillaRhapsody Nov 2013 #217

out of control and dangerous and a threat - whatever words you want to use are not important Douglas Carpenter Nov 2013 #219

I will. Trifling with a rogue nation is A-OK with me.............nt boomersense Nov 2013 #12

How is it rogue if everyone else is doing it too? VanillaRhapsody Nov 2013 #18

I don't see that every other nation is doing it to the extent the boomersense Nov 2013 #28

so what is your threshold? VanillaRhapsody Nov 2013 #89

How much I hear from friends and associates in other countries who keep their ears tuned boomersense Nov 2013 #103

Oh Really....not insignificant according to Snowden himself. VanillaRhapsody Nov 2013 #105

I will have to hear that directly from boomersense Nov 2013 #109

Read it for yourself.. VanillaRhapsody Nov 2013 #111

"...according to documents..." leaked by boomersense Nov 2013 #113

yeah...the documents.... VanillaRhapsody Nov 2013 #114

How about the irony of it coming from The Guardian? VanillaRhapsody Nov 2013 #115

You mean America's number one ally? Oh, yes, pure irony.......nt boomersense Nov 2013 #119

Denial is not a river in Egypt... VanillaRhapsody Nov 2013 #120

They are rogue to the EXTENT that America does it, which boomersense Nov 2013 #121

Do you know what the word Rogue means? VanillaRhapsody Nov 2013 #122

Russia was not in your original collection of rogues? Russia is different. They are boomersense Nov 2013 #125

NO Russia does it...GB does it...France Does it...Germany does it...Sweden does it VanillaRhapsody Nov 2013 #127

You're the one who doesn't know what rogue means, or at least boomersense Nov 2013 #129

Rogue means leaving the herd.... VanillaRhapsody Nov 2013 #133

Yes, partly............. boomersense Nov 2013 #139

Rogue used in this case means....deviating from the norm.... VanillaRhapsody Nov 2013 #149

No Rogue doesn't mean spying.... VanillaRhapsody Nov 2013 #134

a Variation from the standard as well... VanillaRhapsody Nov 2013 #136

YES Russia too... VanillaRhapsody Nov 2013 #128

It's not the NSA Boogy man...they are all doing it...Check out Sweden: VanillaRhapsody Nov 2013 #116

So I have to ask again... VanillaRhapsody Nov 2013 #107

Once again, in collective thought: Because based on my contacts all over the world and their boomersense Nov 2013 #108

and the US citizens all knew how much spying was going on too I suppose? VanillaRhapsody Nov 2013 #151

I have to feed my dogs, VanillaRhapsody. Nice talking to you.........nft boomersense Nov 2013 #153

Why don't you inform us how much other countries are spying? Cordelio Maldonado Nov 2013 #146

this much.... VanillaRhapsody Nov 2013 #150

Google and Facebook and Apple are spying on you too! DontTreadOnMe Nov 2013 #32

Name one country that has 35,000 employees sorting through the communications of JDPriestly Nov 2013 #83

So you don't think France and Germany and GB have expansive VanillaRhapsody Nov 2013 #91

According to Snowden... VanillaRhapsody Nov 2013 #93

"Let's say you have an important criminal charge, an unwarranted, false charge against you" jberryhill Nov 2013 #101

americanism buys all the anti all by itself. xchrom Nov 2013 #13

The more I post here. ForgoTheConsequence Nov 2013 #14

The more I post here, the easier it is to spot the leftwing ideologues KittyWampus Nov 2013 #27

Left wingers on a liberal board? ForgoTheConsequence Nov 2013 #40

"Are you now, or have you ever been...a Left Wing Ideologue?" Tierra_y_Libertad Nov 2013 #43

Guilty. ForgoTheConsequence Nov 2013 #44

Hi! Left-wing ideologue right here! Nice to meet you. nt bemildred Nov 2013 #50

maybe we could get a protected group on DU grasswire Nov 2013 #54

I prefer to explore out in the wild. bemildred Nov 2013 #56

So What Form Of Ideologue Are You? cantbeserious Nov 2013 #62

One that says she won't for H. Clinton if she gets the nomination. Luminous Animal Nov 2013 #206

Warren For President 2016 cantbeserious Nov 2013 #212

Character Revealed LondonReign2 Nov 2013 #102

spying on everyone everywhere is unAmerican in case you didn't know..nt xiamiam Nov 2013 #15

In case you didn't know, that's not what they're doing. randome Nov 2013 #20

The NSA is collecting data on every US citizen ronnie624 Nov 2013 #199

Not anti American at all. He is huge patriot in the traditions of the USA on point Nov 2013 #22

The revelations have included spying on foreign countries from the beginning muriel_volestrangler Nov 2013 #23

acually, some of the 'revelations' highlighted other countries spying themselves KittyWampus Nov 2013 #30

Are you saying posting 2 links relevant to the OP is being 'immune to reality'? muriel_volestrangler Nov 2013 #36

I'll consult the tarot and chicken guts, and get back to you with the truth you seek ASAP. nt Zorra Nov 2013 #29

You really just have to look at Snowden's actual history and actions. KittyWampus Nov 2013 #31

sorry, not compelling.... mike_c Nov 2013 #33

Let me honstly ask if you think it is American to spy not only american citizens but american allies diabeticman Nov 2013 #35

The new Snowden hating talking point. former9thward Nov 2013 #45

New? LondonReign2 Nov 2013 #104

No. The NSA is fanning anti-Americanism all on its own riderinthestorm Nov 2013 #46

You are ignorant if you think anti-americanism abroad needs to be "stimulated". bemildred Nov 2013 #49

Y-E-S!!!! Tarheel_Dem Nov 2013 #51

FAIL grasswire Nov 2013 #52

I gotta ask, do you even own a passport? nadinbrzezinski Nov 2013 #57

While I applaud his initial revelations CFLDem Nov 2013 #58

We Will Have To Agree To Disagree cantbeserious Nov 2013 #63

American Empire Has Fanned The Flames Of Anti-Americanism - Not Snowden cantbeserious Nov 2013 #61

"anti-Americanism", my extreme left wing ass. 99Forever Nov 2013 #66

No dipsydoodle Nov 2013 #71

Spying on our ALLIES is fucking despicable alarimer Nov 2013 #81

Then the whole world is despicable. Everyone who has the means to do it, does it. stevenleser Nov 2013 #211

Did you forget he ran off to China to tell them we were spying on them? Rex Nov 2013 #90

yes and no arely staircase Nov 2013 #92

No country worth living in will take him. MADem Nov 2013 #94

good point treestar Nov 2013 #96

Germany expanded NSA operations in their country. So many DU'ers are either naive or intentionally KittyWampus Nov 2013 #100

And no one connects the dots when it comes to Assange, either. MADem Nov 2013 #132

By the time Lucky Ed qualifies for Russian citizenship, I would wager boomersense Nov 2013 #110

Oh, gee--why don't you school me on "what's coming?" I'm all ears!! MADem Nov 2013 #130

The House voted 292-122 to pass Swaps Regulatory Improvement Act, which repeals a provision in boomersense Nov 2013 #131

Which has fuck-all to do with the OP. MADem Nov 2013 #135

Ah, my fault? I see............. nt boomersense Nov 2013 #138

You're changing the subject, for reasons unclear to all. MADem Nov 2013 #156

I am cracking up at the "the world loves him" posts. Not even most of America is sure Number23 Nov 2013 #162

Yep. I'll bet if he had it to do over again, he would have gone to see his MADem Nov 2013 #166

I still firmly believe the NSA used him. joshcryer Nov 2013 #191

Maybe...but I think it's also possible that Assange may have delivered him to the Russians. MADem Nov 2013 #194

He can probably apply for an extension. treestar Nov 2013 #98

He spoke the truth. I'm good with that. Autumn Nov 2013 #106

I am with you. He already has a few fan clubs. Here is one........... boomersense Nov 2013 #112

Seriously-- the window for smearing this particular whistleblower has passed. Marr Nov 2013 #117

I hope he enjoys the beet soup served cold... Historic NY Nov 2013 #140

I blame Bush and Cheney. Full stop. nt Electric Monk Nov 2013 #145

:facepalm: WillyT Nov 2013 #148

The NSA poured gasoline all over the world and lit thefire. Agnosticsherbet Nov 2013 #152

Which would make sense if everyone wasnt spying on everyone else. But they are... stevenleser Nov 2013 #220

The whole conservative talking point about everybody does it is just wrong. Agnosticsherbet Nov 2013 #223

No, you're not getting it. Not conservative. EU Social Democracies. stevenleser Nov 2013 #225

flames of anti-Americanism! KG Nov 2013 #154

Yes to your question. B Calm Nov 2013 #163

We interrupt this Flame Fest for the following announement: Le Taz Hot Nov 2013 #193

Since Putin told him to STFU, that seems unlikely (nt) Recursion Nov 2013 #195

I think that is probably as much for show as the EU leaders feigned outrage. stevenleser Nov 2013 #226

There's a fine line Recursion Nov 2013 #232

I see you're really not too bright Spider Jerusalem Nov 2013 #200

It kind of makes me wonder what Russia plans to do davidpdx Nov 2013 #202

If Putin can figure out a way to drag this out, he will. The Chinese and Russians love to have this stevenleser Nov 2013 #221

Makes sense davidpdx Nov 2013 #222

Goodbye. sibelian Nov 2013 #204

The actions of the US has done far more to fan the flames than what anyone here thinks Snowden did. hobbit709 Nov 2013 #224

No America fanned the flames of anti-Americanism when it decided to overwhelmingly eliminate any Uncle Joe Nov 2013 #227

The "flames of anti-Americanism" SomethingFishy Nov 2013 #234