General Discussion

MattBaggins

(7,948 posts)

38. natural schmatural

Mon Nov 4, 2013, 08:15 PM

Nov 2013

I don't go for that fallacy.

Kids do indeed need much nurturing and care for development. No one is arguing against that but you seemed to be making an attack against all daycare because of our lax support and controls for them based on one incident of a horrible rotten person.

In the magical good old days kids were dragged off to work to toil with the parents for 16 hours only to come home with everyone exhausted and no one educated at all.

It's amazing how tightly people cling to fantasies of times that never were and refuse to evolve to changing societies. We need a better system but women staying at home or grand parents being forced to raise kids may not work either.

It is a fallacy to claim that a "workplace care setting is FAR better than to a commercial day care business". A workplace setting will most likely be a commercial one. They would need to both be judged on other factors.

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Highlight:

Daycare Owner Kills 3-Year-Old Girl Because She Wouldn't Take Off Her Coat [View all] Cali_Democrat Nov 2013 OP

she didnt want to take off coat cause she didnt want to be there? poor baby. so sad. nt seabeyond Nov 2013 #1

I agree. Children say a lot through simple actions that they take. That is bluestate10 Nov 2013 #48

yes, kids usually want to take off their coat and make a fuss of putting it on JI7 Nov 2013 #71

What an awful person... Bay Boy Nov 2013 #2

In a civilized world, no child would ever spend a single day in "Day Care"... NYC_SKP Nov 2013 #3

I don't understand. silverweb Nov 2013 #4

Mother sister and self lived with grandmother, a three generation household. NYC_SKP Nov 2013 #8

Okay, I get it. silverweb Nov 2013 #11

I get what you're saying Blue_Tires Nov 2013 #14

Indeed, I was referring to an civilized world, an ideal world. NYC_SKP Nov 2013 #16

Human cultures in the past didn't have access to transportation systems pnwmom Nov 2013 #35

in a perfect world Niceguy1 Nov 2013 #104

I agree, that is a major point. People seem to think they're entitled to leave home for career. NYC_SKP Nov 2013 #105

as a society I think that the road we went down Niceguy1 Nov 2013 #108

I hope we learn. NYC_SKP Nov 2013 #109

Or grandpa and/or grandma would be great babysitters dflprincess Nov 2013 #93

Yeah! Hell, we're now into a third generation of "everybody get a job!"... NYC_SKP Nov 2013 #106

I was a latchkey kid Warpy Nov 2013 #17

My perfect world? NYC_SKP Nov 2013 #21

Perhaps you see the world you want to see MattBaggins Nov 2013 #26

Who said anything about women versus men? NYC_SKP Nov 2013 #33

But if you choose older family members for caregivers, you may risk DHS involvement or worse. moriah Nov 2013 #46

That's not necessarily an ideal situation. Some grandmothers abuse and kill their grandchildren. yardwork Nov 2013 #61

PollyAnna view lunasun Nov 2013 #66

It is awful.and so senseless, however, today just to get, by both parents need to work. You were lostincalifornia Nov 2013 #7

That's a predicament that needs to be challenged. NYC_SKP Nov 2013 #10

That change won't happen over night lostincalifornia Nov 2013 #15

my son loves daycare at Kinder Care. It is reputable and has many staff Pretzel_Warrior Nov 2013 #12

I disagree - TBF Nov 2013 #22

Would you not prefer, if society and culture allowed it, to take kids to work or... NYC_SKP Nov 2013 #24

Taking kids to work is just plain silly MattBaggins Nov 2013 #27

Wow. NYC_SKP Nov 2013 #28

You could go on and on and on MattBaggins Nov 2013 #30

It depends. NYC_SKP Nov 2013 #32

natural schmatural MattBaggins Nov 2013 #38

+1 for reality check lunasun Nov 2013 #81

I think most would prefer it - TBF Nov 2013 #75

What a strange thing to say MattBaggins Nov 2013 #25

Just because the name "day care" didn't exist ... surrealAmerican Nov 2013 #31

No, we called these people "baby-sitters" then -- but they did exist. n/t pnwmom Nov 2013 #36

365 days a year baby sitters? 9-5 babysitters??? NYC_SKP Nov 2013 #40

I'm not sure this world existed MattBaggins Nov 2013 #41

I'd argue that the 3-generation poor family in a tenament apartment was a better model. NYC_SKP Nov 2013 #44

Yes, 9-5 babysitters. They're not a 21st century invention. pnwmom Nov 2013 #43

""we need to look to the past and to other cultures to see how they manage this"" lunasun Nov 2013 #84

So France isn't part of the civilized world? Or the numerous other pnwmom Nov 2013 #39

Read my other replies in support of workplace care. NYC_SKP Nov 2013 #42

So you ARE saying that France isn't part of the civilized world, pnwmom Nov 2013 #47

I'm not goint to do this with you, you putting words in my mouth, fuck France. NYC_SKP Nov 2013 #52

I was an at-home mother and I never felt the need to have respect pnwmom Nov 2013 #54

This times 1000 Dorian Gray Nov 2013 #70

Some men and women can do it, others can't. We should be supportive of all. NYC_SKP Nov 2013 #86

You began all of this by referring to your single mother pnwmom Nov 2013 #95

Agreed. phylny Nov 2013 #103

When my daughter called one of the references pnwmom Nov 2013 #107

Message auto-removed Name removed Nov 2013 #55

I see your back. hrmjustin Nov 2013 #58

Do you know who that was? pnwmom Nov 2013 #64

Yes. Pay her no mind. hrmjustin Nov 2013 #65

Oh, right. Mothers use daycare because they are so self-absorbed. pnwmom Nov 2013 #59

Message auto-removed Name removed Nov 2013 #60

your idea of a civilized world sounds like a nightmare for most working women La Lioness Priyanka Nov 2013 #45

Why is this about women? NYC_SKP Nov 2013 #50

Some women actually want to work, and are still good mothers, pnwmom Nov 2013 #62

Women who are full-time mothers are working women. Men who are full-time fathers are, too. NYC_SKP Nov 2013 #72

Yeah, fine, I forgot the P.C. language. pnwmom Nov 2013 #76

because in reality, if day cares closed women would stay home primarily and not men La Lioness Priyanka Nov 2013 #63

Studies have found kids in quality day care and pre-K programs wickerwoman Nov 2013 #110

yeah, i know. i am pretty well versed in the work-family literature La Lioness Priyanka Nov 2013 #111

I know my daughter has learned a lot from the woman pnwmom Nov 2013 #114

and like everyone is dropping their kids off because they are consumers....... maybe of food??beds?? lunasun Nov 2013 #68

agreed. incredibly burdensome to women's careers. La Lioness Priyanka Nov 2013 #69

exactly it was an illogical antiquated view of women with classist undertones imo lunasun Nov 2013 #79

That would be a reasonable choice to make, and one that many parents made in their time. NYC_SKP Nov 2013 #80

That's heartbreaking gollygee Nov 2013 #5

Phuck...how awful... joeybee12 Nov 2013 #6

OMG that poor girl and her family!!! gopiscrap Nov 2013 #9

RIP sweet child. What a tragedy on so many levels. Our hearts go out to the parents and other indepat Nov 2013 #13

It should be required that Politicalboi Nov 2013 #18

That poor baby! LeftofObama Nov 2013 #19

Authoritarians are a sick bunch. Rex Nov 2013 #20

Jesus wept nt arely staircase Nov 2013 #23

and the killer smiles proudly frogmarch Nov 2013 #29

I wonder if she, herself, grew up being raised by strangers in a day care center. NYC_SKP Nov 2013 #34

Most of us who have experience with childcare givers realize pnwmom Nov 2013 #51

That's gotta be true, every case is different. NYC_SKP Nov 2013 #53

My daughter wasn't faced with a poor choice. She's not working because pnwmom Nov 2013 #57

Parents and relatives abuse and kill their children, too. kcr Nov 2013 #67

being in daycare as a child creates MURDERERS elehhhhna Nov 2013 #74

Are you fucking kidding me? Sheldon Cooper Nov 2013 #82

Good parenting is good. I don't know how else to phrase it. NYC_SKP Nov 2013 #83

Bullshit, that's not what you are saying and you know it. Sheldon Cooper Nov 2013 #87

I refuse to defend the culture that requires the middle class to put kids in care. NYC_SKP Nov 2013 #90

+1 (n/t) Nevernose Nov 2013 #112

It's a one story house on a slab. Stairs? alphafemale Nov 2013 #37

Message auto-removed Name removed Nov 2013 #49

oh, my gosh...this is horrible! Blue_Roses Nov 2013 #56

Message auto-removed Name removed Nov 2013 #73

Yeah seriously! You have to wonder what is wrong with some people! Initech Nov 2013 #77

Interesting how the OP became a forum for denigrating mothers pnwmom Nov 2013 #78

Or for arguing against parents being good parents. It's possible to be both. NYC_SKP Nov 2013 #85

You have been repeatedly denigrating mothers who hire "strangers" -- pnwmom Nov 2013 #88

I've consistently used the term "parents" and "mom" and "dad" interchangably. NYC_SKP Nov 2013 #92

You only don't blame parents when they're faced with "poor choices." pnwmom Nov 2013 #96

Pre school age children? NYC_SKP Nov 2013 #97

YES! Even BABIES! I think both parents should be able pnwmom Nov 2013 #98

Who accused anyone of anything? I see the problem now. Clarification: this is not about you. NYC_SKP Nov 2013 #100

You said: "In a civilized world, no child would ever pnwmom Nov 2013 #101

Not retracting. "where the child has to be left with strangers" connotes a lack of choice. NYC_SKP Nov 2013 #102

yeah, i know. La Lioness Priyanka Nov 2013 #89

If the perp had used a gun nothing else would have been discussed The Straight Story Nov 2013 #94

yes -why they are not even "civilized"! lunasun Nov 2013 #113

I just hope the police didn't get a false confession out of that woman. mucifer Nov 2013 #91

I slipped going down the stairs many many times as a child. pnwmom Nov 2013 #99