General Discussion

struggle4progress

(126,097 posts)

143. The reporter who asked his take "on women driving in Saudi Arabia" was grubbing for a headline

Wed Nov 6, 2013, 01:12 AM

Nov 2013

Kerry's SoS, and the press conference was in Riyadh

Kerry's job as SoS has a large diplomatic component. When the SoS visits a country, he doesn't bring his whole wishlist with him: he brings a list with a few items on which he hopes to make some progress, some easier, some harder, and he studies those items to be able to discuss them with intelligence and sensitivity to the nuances

No diplomat of sound mind creates needless and pointless incidents. The SoS lecturing the Saudis on women and driving, while in Riyadh, would have produced an entirely needless and pointless incident: it would have had no impact whatsoever on Saudi policy, except possibly to give the hardliners in Saudi Arabia a nationalist excuse to insist all the more on their current position

Edit history

Please sign in to view edit histories.

Recommendations

0 members have recommended this reply (displayed in chronological order):

199 replies

= new reply since forum marked as read

Highlight:

John Kerry: Up to Saudi Arabia to decide if women should be allowed to drive [View all] cali Nov 2013 OP

that'll drive the ethnocentrists crazy gopiscrap Nov 2013 #1

This message was self-deleted by its author Dash87 Nov 2013 #131

Women have a universal human right to drive. That's not ethnocentric at all. Dash87 Nov 2013 #136

I agree that's part of my point (woman whould have every right a man has) gopiscrap Nov 2013 #138

He's right, actually. JNelson6563 Nov 2013 #2

The alternative is public disapproval Matariki Nov 2013 #7

This......... Beacool Nov 2013 #34

Thank you get the red out Nov 2013 #56

So. What happens if the USA disapproves and leaders in Saudi Arabia still don't bluestate10 Nov 2013 #122

An alternative would be to treat them poorly until they treat their women well. Iggo Nov 2013 #10

What if we need them more than they need us? karynnj Nov 2013 #61

I said it ain't gonna happen. Iggo Nov 2013 #67

Alternative? How about Isolate, Sanction and Blockade? seveneyes Nov 2013 #14

That covers an awful lot of ground leftynyc Nov 2013 #44

Countries that discriminate against women and minorities seveneyes Nov 2013 #57

I agree with you leftynyc Nov 2013 #75

I think it's going to be hard to blockade and sanction ourselves. n/t Shrike47 Nov 2013 #105

How would we boycott ourselves? Recursion Nov 2013 #142

I wonder if Secretary Kerry would care to tell us get the red out Nov 2013 #58

John Kerry had a 100% rating on women's rights in the US Senate karynnj Nov 2013 #64

Those are acts of war. nt ecstatic Nov 2013 #71

I agree loyalsister Nov 2013 #16

I think some don't realize this JNelson6563 Nov 2013 #28

CRPD is being heard in committee again today KamaAina Nov 2013 #40

There's also the "hidden abortion agenda" loyalsister Nov 2013 #116

Good point. HappyMe Nov 2013 #19

No one ever invaded South Africa. NuclearDem Nov 2013 #33

Disgusting... ljm2002 Nov 2013 #3

how do you know a few pointed words werent already said leftyohiolib Nov 2013 #5

No one has yet posted those pointed words Fumesucker Nov 2013 #8

what makes you think the words in any meeting had about this would be posted? leftyohiolib Nov 2013 #12

If pointed words are uttered and there's no one there to hear them... Fumesucker Nov 2013 #15

Nailed it. LeftOfWest Nov 2013 #37

because they would have been leaked and they were not. TeamPooka Nov 2013 #31

yea sure ok leftyohiolib Nov 2013 #50

Note what he did say karynnj Nov 2013 #65

What would you propose? And do we Drone Saudi leaders when they ignore bluestate10 Nov 2013 #127

Nonsense... ljm2002 Nov 2013 #139

can't say anything that would upset our good buddies.. frylock Nov 2013 #4

BULLSHIT Matariki Nov 2013 #6

If it was Whites Males not being allowed to drive, the bombs would already be falling on Riyadh. Ikonoklast Nov 2013 #13

omg leftyohiolib Nov 2013 #18

What? HappyMe Nov 2013 #20

Can I haz cheezburger? closeupready Nov 2013 #29

Nonsense RZM Nov 2013 #46

It's not up to the women. tblue Nov 2013 #78

It's different when they have oil. Then we let them do whatever they want. Dash87 Nov 2013 #132

Well isn't that special...? Purveyor Nov 2013 #9

So Russia has a choice when it comes to gay rights? 851-977 Nov 2013 #11

Time to post this again Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin Nov 2013 #17

holy shit...that's really clever and well done. Zorra Nov 2013 #22

That was interesting! treestar Nov 2013 #42

I believe it's satire Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin Nov 2013 #102

Typical. Hillary Clinton on the other hand - TBF Nov 2013 #21

in 1995 Bill was making a lot of women and childrens lives in Iraq Whisp Nov 2013 #23

Did I mention Bill? TBF Nov 2013 #24

where was Hillary and her humanitarian words then? Whisp Nov 2013 #25

She didn't speak to each country independently - TBF Nov 2013 #36

loved em to death reddread Nov 2013 #43

Peace and Prosperity. From your link: Whisp Nov 2013 #51

Saddam Hussein petitioned the UN for permission AtomicKitten Nov 2013 #53

It was a horrible horrible time for Iraq, and a long string of horror after that. Whisp Nov 2013 #54

how is it hatred to ask why it's okay to kill Iraqi's Whisp Nov 2013 #47

She was in Beijing giving a historic speech, that wasn't very welcome! boston bean Nov 2013 #41

did it end or begin with those three little words? reddread Nov 2013 #144

"working tirelessly" vs. "just a speech" AtomicKitten Nov 2013 #38

''John McCain opposes a woman's right to choose Whisp Nov 2013 #48

by any means necessary ... AtomicKitten Nov 2013 #49

Don't even start - TBF Nov 2013 #69

You didn't explain why a speech by Hillary AtomicKitten Nov 2013 #84

Why should I explain that? I didn't make that claim - TBF Nov 2013 #85

The claim that by virtue of making a speech AtomicKitten Nov 2013 #87

I'll check back with you when she's the nominee. nt TBF Nov 2013 #98

Headed straight for coronation again, eh? AtomicKitten Nov 2013 #100

You're having some reading comprehension problems dear - TBF Nov 2013 #108

The mythical creature is the one that lives in the heads of people like you. Beacool Nov 2013 #101

Horseshit. AtomicKitten Nov 2013 #107

Let me be the first one to inform you that the 2008 campaign finished over 5 years ago. Beacool Nov 2013 #112

so then the speech she gave in 1995 shouldn't come into play either Whisp Nov 2013 #193

How did she get her daughter to play along with that grotesque exaggeration? Whisp Nov 2013 #117

Same B.S. coming from the same haters. Beacool Nov 2013 #99

Keep embellishing her resume and you can AtomicKitten Nov 2013 #104

Keep denying that she has an enviable resume, you're only making a fool of yourself. Beacool Nov 2013 #109

ONE YEAR right out of college - her ONLY nonprofit job. AtomicKitten Nov 2013 #111

Listen genius, she continued her advocay in Arkansas, Beacool Nov 2013 #113

Just as significant is her LGBT speech while serving as SOS. Beacool Nov 2013 #62

Kerry's record on women's rights equals Clintons karynnj Nov 2013 #66

Yes, she did. She spoke to the Saudis in private Beacool Nov 2013 #106

Link to her saying that that she said this to the Prince karynnj Nov 2013 #119

What did she say to Saudis as Sec of State? blm Nov 2013 #89

Her tenure as SOS was confined to AtomicKitten Nov 2013 #97

At this point, what you write is just risible and has no basis in facts. Beacool Nov 2013 #110

Your position is emotional fluff and distortion of facts. nt AtomicKitten Nov 2013 #158

Kowtowing to monarchs that suppress their populations is unseemly. Jesus Malverde Nov 2013 #26

good thing they arent in Burkhas reddread Nov 2013 #27

hijab Jesus Malverde Nov 2013 #32

It's funny to watch Arab women bluedeathray Nov 2013 #39

There are some things that argument works for. NuclearDem Nov 2013 #30

That's about right get the red out Nov 2013 #59

Just keep shipping that oil... bluedeathray Nov 2013 #35

I thought that our foreign policy position on this issue had changed. Beacool Nov 2013 #45

I argued about this up-post a bit TBF Nov 2013 #52

It's always the same crowd and they are tiresome. Beacool Nov 2013 #63

what were Hillary's plans to actually Make That Happen? Whisp Nov 2013 #55

Note that she said that in LONDON to a group that was happy to hear it karynnj Nov 2013 #72

Hillary spoke to the Saudis in private before making her public statement. Beacool Nov 2013 #94

In neither case was she in Saudi Arabia, standing next to the Prince karynnj Nov 2013 #124

London, England is NOT Saudi Arabia blm Nov 2013 #103

Having a problem reading? Beacool Nov 2013 #115

Speaking privately to them is NOT the same as stating that position to the press karynnj Nov 2013 #128

In Pakistan she was being honest with them. Beacool Nov 2013 #175

Conde Nast????? Wonderful source - not karynnj Nov 2013 #176

Privately....yet, some are attacking Kerry when they haven't a clue what is going on blm Nov 2013 #172

Personally, I never criticized Kerry over this issue. Beacool Nov 2013 #173

"It was mentioned" where??? karynnj Nov 2013 #177

In the articles that came out at the time that she made the public statement. Beacool Nov 2013 #195

Kerry didn't change policy - that's the point. It's absurd to imply he did. blm Nov 2013 #184

What exactly wquld you prefer the US's top diplomat say? karynnj Nov 2013 #60

I would prefer that he echo the line that's been expressed by the SD over cali Nov 2013 #68

He actually did that in the first sentence karynnj Nov 2013 #73

He certainly did NOTHING OF THE KIND cali Nov 2013 #76

What are you speaking of - he said that is what we support karynnj Nov 2013 #83

The far Left has it's rose colored glasses on. Kerry clearly said that Saudi women bluestate10 Nov 2013 #129

Not to mention angering the Prince on this would defeat the entire reason he was there - karynnj Nov 2013 #134

Right, and we should suck up to Russia so they don't get more angry at LGBT Russians NuclearDem Nov 2013 #194

Uh, it's the sentence that starts with 'But' that should be an issue for everyone... Violet_Crumble Nov 2013 #151

That's just reality karynnj Nov 2013 #165

What do you mean by "the far left"? Comrade Grumpy Nov 2013 #187

Yea? So? Diplomats are suppose to speak diplomatically when addressing such issues. phleshdef Nov 2013 #150

I hope anyone who disagrees with Kerry's approach will explain how we can force ecstatic Nov 2013 #70

No one suggested "forcing them to do things our way" get the red out Nov 2013 #77

Kerry simply avoided insulting the Prince karynnj Nov 2013 #86

Of course!!! get the red out Nov 2013 #91

uh, no one is fucking talking about "forcing" cali Nov 2013 #79

That's always the claim though, isn't it? get the red out Nov 2013 #80

thats exactly what he said in his first sentence scheming daemons Nov 2013 #95

Sanctions and boycotts. NuclearDem Nov 2013 #82

South Africa didn't have the world economy by the balls the way Saudi Arabia bluestate10 Nov 2013 #133

I never said it was going to happen, and the state we're in NuclearDem Nov 2013 #140

It was up to South Africa to decide if black people had any rights. tblue Nov 2013 #74

ultimately, it didnt change until the South Africans changed it scheming daemons Nov 2013 #88

The global pressure did a LOT to make them change. Matariki Nov 2013 #114

That's a gross understatement. Gravitycollapse Nov 2013 #149

The anti-apartheid movement was one of the largest anti-racist movement in human history. Gravitycollapse Nov 2013 #148

Hey John, is that what you said about South African apartheid as well? 'It's up to them!!!!' Bluenorthwest Nov 2013 #81

You are a poor student of history. blm Nov 2013 #92

ultimately, it was up to them scheming daemons Nov 2013 #93

"It was up to them" covers up the fact that they lost a LOT of disinvestment money over apartheid. ancianita Nov 2013 #167

we better sever ties with Ireland too, while we are at it scheming daemons Nov 2013 #90

He could call for sanctions or an embargo Fumesucker Nov 2013 #121

exactly. we need to sanction Ireland. scheming daemons Nov 2013 #123

I wouldn't have a problem with that Fumesucker Nov 2013 #125

after what happened with SAnctions in Iraq i would be careful with that JI7 Nov 2013 #155

Why then are they not being "careful" with sanctions against Iran? Fumesucker Nov 2013 #160

they should be careful , and the sanctions are because of the nuclear program, but at least JI7 Nov 2013 #161

Sanctions against South Africa weren't because they had a nuclear program Fumesucker Nov 2013 #162

That would be a great way to improve our relations with them - which is why he was there karynnj Nov 2013 #135

They seem to think sanctions will improve relations with Iran Fumesucker Nov 2013 #159

N they don't think that sanctions will improve the relationship with Iran karynnj Nov 2013 #163

Evidently you think threatening people is not an optimum way to get them to do things Fumesucker Nov 2013 #164

No, I pointed out there are a multitude of things the US wants from SA karynnj Nov 2013 #166

You are wrong Mr. Secretary. truebrit71 Nov 2013 #96

Scaredy�cat bullshit. jsr Nov 2013 #118

So, what is wrong with letting a country make that decision? bluestate10 Nov 2013 #120

What beautiful ignorance of reality. We let Saudi Arabia do whatever they want because we need... Gravitycollapse Nov 2013 #147

We "let" as far as it is profitable.In SA's case, we didn't impose sanctions; major groups here dis- ancianita Nov 2013 #169

During times like this Aerows Nov 2013 #126

This message was self-deleted by its author Dash87 Nov 2013 #130

Does anyone really care ProSense Nov 2013 #137

Why is the liberal desire of half this country's population controversial when it comes to a SoS ancianita Nov 2013 #170

Spare me, ProSense Nov 2013 #179

Some? This is another convenient wall of diminishment that reveals subtle sexism. ancianita Nov 2013 #182

I'm a woman, and your comment is absurd. n/t ProSense Nov 2013 #183

What would people rather he say? Recursion Nov 2013 #141

War! Drones! Barack_America Nov 2013 #145

No. ForgoTheConsequence Nov 2013 #153

The reporter who asked his take "on women driving in Saudi Arabia" was grubbing for a headline struggle4progress Nov 2013 #143

So basically what you're saying is his job as SoS is to be a lapdog for whoever he's visiting. Gravitycollapse Nov 2013 #146

That is not at all what this means karynnj Nov 2013 #181

You stated this far better than any of my attempts - Thanks nt karynnj Nov 2013 #178

At the very least we could stop selling them weapons...... ForgoTheConsequence Nov 2013 #152

Stop selling them weapons? That would require a conscience. Gravitycollapse Nov 2013 #154

What did Hillary do that showed guts? karynnj Nov 2013 #168

Here. ForgoTheConsequence Nov 2013 #192

IN London - as a private citizen -saying something close to 100% of Americans agree on? karynnj Nov 2013 #196

In classic male diplomaticspeak, yes. When thought is given to half the populations' struggle there, ancianita Nov 2013 #171

How manly of him. Luminous Animal Nov 2013 #156

Diplomat is diplomatic. TwilightGardener Nov 2013 #157

Read: Male diplomat is diplomatic to male-dominated resource control within and across countries. ancianita Nov 2013 #174

What the hell are you talking about? n/t ProSense Nov 2013 #180

More diplomatic pressure than Kerry gave. What the hell do you think I'm talking about. ancianita Nov 2013 #185

No, you're talking nonsense and playing ignorant, but of course ProSense Nov 2013 #186

Maybe. I can't say that she'd have said anything different, but I still say he was remiss in letting ancianita Nov 2013 #189

The Most Unfair Countries For Women Mosby Nov 2013 #188

They are all Middle Eastern or North African? Comrade Grumpy Nov 2013 #190

Fair questions Mosby Nov 2013 #191

Which one is different? treestar Nov 2013 #197

Ivory Coast Mosby Nov 2013 #198

Thanks. treestar Nov 2013 #199