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In reply to the discussion: JFK Conference: Bill Kelly introduced new evidence - adding Air Force One tape recordings [View all]Bolo Boffin
(23,872 posts)54. OK, already it's changed from "disobeyed an order" to "disobeyed wishes."
(Added to be clear: Octafish says "disobeyed order," but the link (Kelly) says "disobeyed wishes."
Do you admit there is a difference between an order and a wish?
Now your link says this came from the log "posted below" on that website. Here's the link to that actual page.
http://jfkcountercoup.blogspot.com/2011/07/andrews-afb-log-112263.html
OK, now that we've gotten to the actual log, let's see what we have. (I'm granting that Kelly has transcribed it correctly.)
1625 [4:25pm] 24197 Gen Lemay Dept Wairton 1604 ETA DCA 1715, Driver & Aide at DCA ETA charged 1710, Secy Zuckert Will Meet Lemay at ADW. (notified AC f t )
1650 [4:50] =09=09Call From 26000, need steps FWD Door, FWD Gally Door & Lift Truck AfT Pax Door, Body in Rear.
1700 [5:00pm] =09Gen Lemay Will land DCA NOT ADW.
1650 [4:50] =09=09Call From 26000, need steps FWD Door, FWD Gally Door & Lift Truck AfT Pax Door, Body in Rear.
1700 [5:00pm] =09Gen Lemay Will land DCA NOT ADW.
Now what does that say? The middle notation (1650) isn't necessary for our purposes. The first is the "order/wish" and the second is where Lemay is landing at DCA.
But wait. What's this in the 1625 entry? "Gen Lemay Dept Wairton 1604 ETA DCA 1715."
In standard English, this first part of the 16:25 entry says General LeMay departed Wiarton at 16:04 and his estimated time of arrival at DCA would be 17:15.
At DCA. Not ADW, Andrews Air Force Base. DCA. So when the 16:25 entry at the end says that Secretary Zuckert is going to meet LeMay at Andrews, what the heck is going on? The entry just said Lemay is landing at DCA at 17:15. So why in the world does Zuckert think the meeting's at ADW at all?
Which is why, I'd say, at 17:00, LeMay evidently sends a clarification that he is landing at DCA, not ADW.
But there's a third part of the 16:25 entry. The first part is that LeMay has left Wiarton and is landing at DCA. The last part is that Zuckert is meeting LeMay at Andrews.
What's that middle part?
"Driver & Aide at DCA ETA charged 1710"
To my eye, that looks like a driver and LeMay's aide are expected to be at DCA at 17:10, five minutes before LeMay lands there.
I wonder where they are going to drive him? Naturally you will say Bethesda because LeMay can run the Dealey Plaza operation from a secret camp in Canada, but he has to be personally present for the autopsy. I say he's going to be driven to Andrews after landing at DCA to meet Zuckert, because that makes more sense of what the log says.
YMMV.
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JFK Conference: Bill Kelly introduced new evidence - adding Air Force One tape recordings [View all]
Octafish
Nov 2013
OP
How could Bundy have possibly known there was no conspiracy when Oswald was arrested?
Sanity Claws
Nov 2013
#1
James Galbraith wrote his dad, John Kenneth Galbraith, made the arrangements...
Octafish
Nov 2013
#103
Generals mocking JFK behind his back during Cuban Missile Crisis caught on another tape...
Octafish
Nov 2013
#8
If JFK had to put up with this sh*t, what do imagine President Obama has to face? nt
kelliekat44
Nov 2013
#59
That's all Mr. Kelly said on that. Others at the conference expressed the opinion LBJ...
Octafish
Nov 2013
#6
You are a very respected DUer Octafish, one of the most respected, in fact one of the reasons
sabrina 1
Nov 2013
#88
The "new tape" was released in Jan '12. And the article shows it's not a lie
Bolo Boffin
Nov 2013
#43
The salient information from the new tape is LeMay lied about his whereabouts (REPOST).
Octafish
Nov 2013
#45
It's relevant because it was edited out of the tapes in the National Archives.
Octafish
Nov 2013
#49
The conversation between LBJ, Ladybird, and Rose Kennedy was also edited out, Octafish.
Bolo Boffin
Nov 2013
#50
No. LeMay disobeyed an order to fly to Andrews AFB. All the rest of that is what you say.
Octafish
Nov 2013
#55
The log puts 'NOT' in all caps, meaning Le May is not going where he was ordered.
Octafish
Nov 2013
#60
But what you are saying is insubordination is not insubordination, Octafish.
Bolo Boffin
Nov 2013
#63
Something to remember to ask when going over all this: Why was LeMay in Canada?
Octafish
Nov 2013
#64
No. I'm just wondering why he had to be picked up hundreds of miles away in Canada.
Octafish
Nov 2013
#67
Which is why Dulles and Lemnitzer counseled all-out nuclear sneak attack on USSR
Octafish
Nov 2013
#72
And so how did the all-out nuclear attack on USSR go after Kennedy was out of the way? n/t
Bolo Boffin
Nov 2013
#73
THE TAKE-AWAY: JFK stood up to the Cold War hawks who counseled war -- EVERY TIME.
Octafish
Nov 2013
#74
You mean they killed Kennedy to get a nuclear war and then they didn't get one?
Bolo Boffin
Nov 2013
#76
Yes, to introduce some much needed levity to this discussion. Nevertheless
Bolo Boffin
Nov 2013
#101
A recurring theme throughout Kennedy's term in office seems to be the Pentagon's 'desire' for a.....
LongTomH
Nov 2013
#32
So how did that late 1963 preemptive nuclear strike work out for the Pentagon?
Bolo Boffin
Nov 2013
#39
Interesting collection of books, including Michio Kaku and Daniel Axelrod's...
Octafish
Nov 2013
#38
Analysis Of Reports And Data Bearing On Circumstances Of Death Of Twenty-One Individuals Connected
bobthedrummer
Nov 2013
#81
CNN Failed to Credit Bill Kelly's role in their report on the Air Force One tapes.
Octafish
Nov 2013
#104