General Discussion

dawg

(10,777 posts)

79. I don't think it stigmatizes anything, although some may choose to defensively take it that way.

Fri Nov 8, 2013, 05:13 PM

Nov 2013

When a politician uses the "safe, legal and rare" language, he or she is putting the focus on unwanted pregnancies and the conditions that lead to them. That, IMHO, is exactly what needs to be done.

I want there to be just as many abortions in this country as there are women who feel that they need one. Not one less.

But I wish we could start working harder to reduce the number of people who find themselves in the position of needing abortions. Our country is one of the least supportive of women and children of all the OECD developed nations. Furthermore, the obstacles to obtaining good and effective birth control are unforgivable for a first world nation. We need to be working on these things, and the "safe, legal and rare" language is useful in explaining the need to work on these things to moderates and fence-sitters.

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Are people who believe Abortion should be legal but rare objectively anti-Choice? [View all] el_bryanto Nov 2013 OP

No more than people who think guns should be regulated pscot Nov 2013 #1

That Comparison doesn't work - because it is a rhetorical issue el_bryanto Nov 2013 #2

Agree pscot Nov 2013 #4

Depends on the meaning of rare. If rare means that you improve general conditions (access to birth Mass Nov 2013 #3

I think the word "rare" is problematic as it ignores how desperately more clinics are needed... bettyellen Nov 2013 #11

Believing that abortion should be rare Ms. Toad Nov 2013 #63

It's not about 'ceding' the damn word. It's about not using a measure of frequency in policy or PeaceNikki Nov 2013 #77

I'm pretty sure the majority of folks who are pro-choice... Wounded Bear Nov 2013 #5

There have been recent posts that suggest that focusing on those issues is a form of "slut shaming" el_bryanto Nov 2013 #6

That's what I would mean by the concept of "legal but rare." Jackpine Radical Nov 2013 #7

No one cares what people 'believe' women should do leftstreet Nov 2013 #8

Well - i don't know about that el_bryanto Nov 2013 #13

Exactly leftstreet Nov 2013 #14

So even discussing Abortion is making it my business? el_bryanto Nov 2013 #16

Not if you're pondering getting one n/t leftstreet Nov 2013 #21

I'm not really eligible I suppose - so I should preferably keep my opinions to myself on this issue. el_bryanto Nov 2013 #24

Well then I suppose requests HappyMe Nov 2013 #23

You miss the point leftstreet Nov 2013 #25

I don't think it would have been HappyMe Nov 2013 #26

The politicians made sure of that leftstreet Nov 2013 #30

It is sad that they have been able to influence legislation. HappyMe Nov 2013 #33

No. I think that the rare HappyMe Nov 2013 #9

You understand that's not what it means for everybody right? nt el_bryanto Nov 2013 #10

Yes. HappyMe Nov 2013 #12

I would guess most pro choice people believe this LittleBlue Nov 2013 #15

But what do they mean by rare? el_bryanto Nov 2013 #17

They see abortion as a bad thing LittleBlue Nov 2013 #20

Not objectively. But they provide most of the cover for anti-choicers. cthulu2016 Nov 2013 #18

How can they not be objectively anti choice and yet provide most of the cover el_bryanto Nov 2013 #22

Because Orwell used 'objectively' in a tricky way cthulu2016 Nov 2013 #32

That's a fair point - I did use the Orwell Language (filtered through my memories of the Bush Years) el_bryanto Nov 2013 #34

I agree with you cthulu2016 Nov 2013 #35

Maybe. Not enough information. MadrasT Nov 2013 #19

cntraception and education come first, duh librechik Nov 2013 #27

Clearly they feel the right to keep count and set limits. Other people's bodies are for them to Bluenorthwest Nov 2013 #28

So this goes beyond mere ignorance in your opinion - people who use this language el_bryanto Nov 2013 #31

No, I don't think that's the issue. sibelian Nov 2013 #40

We'll assume you aren't suggesting oversight/rationing. MADem Nov 2013 #29

2 separate issues. I don't know why they get conflated. Lex Nov 2013 #36

They get conflated because some people who choose to have an abortion are punished el_bryanto Nov 2013 #37

No woman is chomping at the bit to have Lex Nov 2013 #43

To me, rare means abortion should only be performed Vashta Nerada Nov 2013 #38

Gonna try to explain pipi_k Nov 2013 #39

Affordable (and available) contraception Revanchist Nov 2013 #88

I look at actual abortion like the Emergency Room. bobclark86 Nov 2013 #41

what does one's personal opinion matter if they think it should be legal? dionysus Nov 2013 #42

The argument is, as I understand it, that if you are in favor of keeping abortion legal el_bryanto Nov 2013 #44

i see. i think there are good reasons for having abortions, and bad ones. each case is unique. but dionysus Nov 2013 #45

What are bad reasons to have an abortion? I guess that would be my one question nt el_bryanto Nov 2013 #47

this story is an outlier, i would assume, but there was the case of this girl in college that dionysus Nov 2013 #48

That is a disturbing story, and I don't doubt that it happened and happens el_bryanto Nov 2013 #49

oh, anti choicers would have a field day with that. but i don't think the sort of thing i witnessed dionysus Nov 2013 #50

Rare would include other forms of birth control being readily available Blue_In_AK Nov 2013 #46

I think most people mean it in the sense Demobrat Nov 2013 #51

Legal but rare means that education and contraceptives are easily avaiable to all women Agnosticsherbet Nov 2013 #52

No. There are two types of pro-choice people: redgreenandblue Nov 2013 #53

But does the former create cover for those who think that Abortion should be illegal? el_bryanto Nov 2013 #55

I am almost certain that this is a logical fallacy. redgreenandblue Nov 2013 #58

You left off at least one type fried eggs Nov 2013 #81

You're conflating people who say "rare" because they want to restrict abortion with people winter is coming Nov 2013 #54

The problem is that words mean things. And using language like "rare" is dangerous. PeaceNikki Nov 2013 #57

Whoosh. Of course the word "rare" is subjective. That's why it can't and shouldn't winter is coming Nov 2013 #66

whoosh? whatever, you are ceding a fucking word. the "rare" verbiage was pulled from platform for a PeaceNikki Nov 2013 #67

What's asinine is attempting to label pro-choice people anti-choice because they haven't winter is coming Nov 2013 #68

uh. I haven't. PeaceNikki Nov 2013 #69

No, but they give strength to anti-choicers. PeaceNikki Nov 2013 #56

So they are effectively anti-choice? el_bryanto Nov 2013 #59

I don't know if I'd frame it that way. PeaceNikki Nov 2013 #60

What's the distinction then? el_bryanto Nov 2013 #61

Well, you're free to frame it that way and I totally get your reasoning. PeaceNikki Nov 2013 #62

Just so I'm not deceiving anybody - I do fit into category 1 el_bryanto Nov 2013 #65

To me "rare" mean trying to prevent unwanted pregnancies in the first place Marrah_G Nov 2013 #64

similar to those who believe in "secular gay marriage" but also believe being gay is immoral La Lioness Priyanka Nov 2013 #70

I read this a few times and still don't get it. Nye Bevan Nov 2013 #76

yes, i have met a few people. usually extremely religious but with a strong belief that govt should La Lioness Priyanka Nov 2013 #78

I know a local Pentecostal who believes the same. xmas74 Nov 2013 #94

well thanks for confirming that i wasn't the only person who knew these people La Lioness Priyanka Nov 2013 #95

And the same to you. xmas74 Nov 2013 #96

Abortion is a medical procedure that solves a problem. dawg Nov 2013 #71

It stigmatizes women's health care choices. It implies that it's a decision that should NOT be made. PeaceNikki Nov 2013 #72

I don't think it stigmatizes anything, although some may choose to defensively take it that way. dawg Nov 2013 #79

it is not a matter of being defensive. PeaceNikki Nov 2013 #80

The more I read, the more I realize this is a really interesting and nuanced issue. dawg Nov 2013 #83

thanks. yes, I think the phrase was effective at the time. but we're evolving PeaceNikki Nov 2013 #84

I think most of us want the same thing. It's just semantics fried eggs Nov 2013 #85

abortion is faaaar safer than carrying to term and delivery PeaceNikki Nov 2013 #86

so here's a thought: stop using the word open to interpretation PeaceNikki Nov 2013 #87

I was really surprised the first time I read that War Horse Nov 2013 #73

It means for me .. ananda Nov 2013 #74

No, we think abortion should be legal, and accessible when needed, Nye Bevan Nov 2013 #75

I don't know. I've always thought of "legal but rare" as a PC position, nyquil_man Nov 2013 #82

No. They believe in making contraceptives available & cheap... Hekate Nov 2013 #89

Anti-choice means you don't think the person should have the option, Yo_Mama Nov 2013 #90

Why wouldn't you want it to be rare? Courtesy Flush Nov 2013 #91

It would be nice if it was naturally rare krispos42 Nov 2013 #92

I believe it should be legal and on demand but rare all at the same time. xmas74 Nov 2013 #93

Depends on if they're trying to legislate from that belief. Warren DeMontague Nov 2013 #97

Nope LostOne4Ever Nov 2013 #98