General Discussion

TBF

(35,773 posts)

99. "The ship's going down, baby" --

Mon Nov 11, 2013, 07:52 AM

Nov 2013

That's for sure. I blame capitalism.

If y'all want to save it the answer is simple. From roughly 1930-80 we had something called tax and regulation - and they really did it. They taxed high earners and companies and they broke up monopolies (anyone remember Ma Bell). We had manufacturing jobs (this was pre-NAFTA) and folks were able to at least make what their parents did or even better themselves. The capital gains tax was equal to any other earnings and taxed the same - this is important and should be reinstated (it has been cut by every administration since 1980 AFAIK).

So, that is a model that had some success until the very wealthy decided they were sick of it. Personally I don't really want to save the system, but for folks who want to do it that's your answer.

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Why are you so *angry*, Manny? [View all] MannyGoldstein Nov 2013 OP

The budget under sequestration is ~already~ less then Ryan's plans, isn't it? Fumesucker Nov 2013 #1

Yes. But so wonderously bipartisan! MannyGoldstein Nov 2013 #2

I'm a bit puzzled by how many smart people can't recognize a "Briar Patch" gambit when they see one Fumesucker Nov 2013 #69

...and NOBODY has to go home to the voters and take responsibility for cutting Meals-on-Wheels, bvar22 Nov 2013 #174

Actually, you also know them by their excuses... R. Daneel Olivaw Nov 2013 #186

Who do they think they are fooling? We KNOW who they are! sabrina 1 Nov 2013 #234

"Know your enemy and know yourself... leftstreet Nov 2013 #3

'Don't ask me to be nice to people who only want to complete the destruction a little sabrina 1 Nov 2013 #4

+1. n/t Laelth Nov 2013 #115

Question Manny.... NoOneMan Nov 2013 #5

Well, we need to fundamentally shift the paradigm MannyGoldstein Nov 2013 #6

Yet technophilia might not be drastic enough NoOneMan Nov 2013 #8

Both are true, IMHO MannyGoldstein Nov 2013 #11

Well, for starters, let's put people to work building that green infrastructure. Jackpine Radical Nov 2013 #133

As long as we're dreaming... Doremus Nov 2013 #168

Nationalize? erronis Nov 2013 #176

I won't quibble about nationalizing, and take your point. Jackpine Radical Nov 2013 #178

+100 Sounds good! Especially the last sentence. Auntie Bush Nov 2013 #173

Great point. JDPriestly Nov 2013 #244

Well this is long...2 hours. zeemike Nov 2013 #21

Thanks. NoOneMan Nov 2013 #30

Attitude altering hopeful film, thanks for posting. canoeist52 Nov 2013 #175

My opinion? defacto7 Nov 2013 #7

I know why you are mad Manny. And we know who the enemy is. The 1% of course goes without saying. rhett o rick Nov 2013 #9

Me too. n/t Laelth Nov 2013 #116

I Love You Manny... Did You Catch This ??? WillyT Nov 2013 #10

Thanks for pointing it out - it's great! MannyGoldstein Nov 2013 #12

This country was never quite as great as we like to say it used to be frazzled Nov 2013 #13

*Progress* MannyGoldstein Nov 2013 #15

Oh, don't pull out the Hitler card ... please. frazzled Nov 2013 #16

Don't think it can happen here? MannyGoldstein Nov 2013 #20

It could happen anywhere frazzled Nov 2013 #27

But Social Security went from 0% to 50% - huge progress! MannyGoldstein Nov 2013 #32

And we're still having progress today frazzled Nov 2013 #43

The median American wage is dropping, dropping. MannyGoldstein Nov 2013 #46

Median ... frazzled Nov 2013 #51

I'd like for us to all do equally well MannyGoldstein Nov 2013 #53

Interesting ... 1StrongBlackMan Nov 2013 #111

Important observation. Laelth Nov 2013 #120

I'm still trying to figure that out ... 1StrongBlackMan Nov 2013 #125

Honest answer. Thanks. n/t Laelth Nov 2013 #127

I would add ... 1StrongBlackMan Nov 2013 #131

A while back I got roasted alive for pointing out that minorities have gotten battered far worse Flatulo Nov 2013 #152

"you seem to want" MannyGoldstein Nov 2013 #180

Okay ... you're correct ... 1StrongBlackMan Nov 2013 #209

Did I break that in to black 99% vs. white 99%? MannyGoldstein Nov 2013 #212

Okay n/t 1StrongBlackMan Nov 2013 #214

You must be reading somebody else's post since that is not what Manny wrote. R. Daneel Olivaw Nov 2013 #189

Okay n/t 1StrongBlackMan Nov 2013 #211

+1 Go Vols Nov 2013 #163

And we women too... VanillaRhapsody Nov 2013 #56

It works that way with class, too. QC Nov 2013 #142

I'm not seeing the big improvement since 1967. NewDeal_Dem Dec 2014 #288

I guess it's how you measure. More unemployed, more losing homes, more rhett o rick Nov 2013 #258

It sounds like we grew up at about the same time. blue neen Nov 2013 #45

Indeed! frazzled Nov 2013 #48

Manny, I know someone who is quite the expert on the NAZIs and Hitler, lived through the period JDPriestly Nov 2013 #29

Hitler and FDR both brought jobs. MannyGoldstein Nov 2013 #34

Yes. Because people with college degrees are working in fast food joints, and that JDPriestly Nov 2013 #38

Spot on, Manny. Laelth Nov 2013 #122

Oh, don't pull the 'godwin card' .... please. sabrina 1 Nov 2013 #237

Manny, I assume you're white Cali_Democrat Nov 2013 #274

k&r idwiyo Nov 2013 #14

It's probably all those ProSense Nov 2013 #17

Manny has the education to understand and analyze what he sees around him. JDPriestly Nov 2013 #24

Yeah, we're doomed and they suck. ProSense Nov 2013 #26

That's the way it is now. It doesn't have to stay that way. JDPriestly Nov 2013 #35

What ProSense Nov 2013 #39

Don't adopt the TPP. Change our trade agreements to protect American jobs -- not too much JDPriestly Nov 2013 #47

Best thing to do: Increase the minimum wage ProSense Nov 2013 #50

The minimum wage doesn't apply if you're jobless MannyGoldstein Nov 2013 #57

Yeah, ProSense Nov 2013 #62

See my post #1 on this thread n/t Fumesucker Nov 2013 #71

I suppose that if someone's punching us in the face, taping MannyGoldstein Nov 2013 #73

Like I said, ProSense Nov 2013 #75

+1 progressoid Nov 2013 #202

A not-yet-in-effect minimum wage increase trumps a not-yet-in-effect "free" trade bill? MannyGoldstein Nov 2013 #76

Yes, and ProSense Nov 2013 #78

A bill could be written that did both at the same time Fumesucker Nov 2013 #79

Yes. But unless we change our trade policy, the underlying problems will not be solved. JDPriestly Nov 2013 #89

Seriously, this is a joke. ProSense Nov 2013 #165

Yes. Raising the minimum wage will help people short-term, but it will not bring back the lost JDPriestly Nov 2013 #183

"Raising the minimum wage will help people short-term" Phlem Nov 2013 #231

No, THEY'RE doomed and they suck. grahamhgreen Nov 2013 #102

We're only doomed if we don't start changing what we've been doing which sure hasn't worked sabrina 1 Nov 2013 #238

10000++++^^^^^^^^ 2banon Nov 2013 #223

I'm reading this shitty OP and my eyes almost rolled out of my head Number23 Nov 2013 #28

So, how do you think things are going these days? MannyGoldstein Nov 2013 #42

Who doesn't? Number23 Nov 2013 #49

You don't understand, ProSense Nov 2013 #52

Are things getting better or worse for the average American? MannyGoldstein Nov 2013 #55

Well, ProSense Nov 2013 #61

Why wake up? The Sun will explode in a few billion years. MannyGoldstein Nov 2013 #66

LOL! Yeah, you got nothing. n/t ProSense Nov 2013 #68

Just Ride it out? bvar22 Nov 2013 #160

"Throwing tax dollars at problems " is what wingnuts say and usually towards people of color JI7 Nov 2013 #63

Weird, isn't it? n/t ProSense Nov 2013 #70

coming from someone who said if they could overturn any election JI7 Nov 2013 #72

Yep. And I'll just leave it at "yep" Number23 Nov 2013 #86

You don't understand ... 1StrongBlackMan Nov 2013 #123

Dear Strong Black Man 2banon Nov 2013 #221

I disagree ... 1StrongBlackMan Nov 2013 #224

Carlin and Marx 2banon Nov 2013 #227

Yes ... 1StrongBlackMan Nov 2013 #250

Indeed I agree with you.. 2banon Nov 2013 #263

Hey man, good luck. You're dealing with some special stuff right there Number23 Nov 2013 #236

thanks for bumping a thread you have no time for.. 2banon Nov 2013 #241

+1 uponit7771 Nov 2013 #138

What is the minimum wage where you live? n/t Fumesucker Nov 2013 #67

$16.88. QC Nov 2013 #121

things are still bad heaven05 Nov 2013 #110

Which brings us to Frazzled's point n/t 1StrongBlackMan Nov 2013 #117

Frazzled posts in this thread should be the ones with 329 recs. But you and I know BOTH know Number23 Nov 2013 #276

Yup ... 1StrongBlackMan Nov 2013 #287

Manny, the comment you just responded to COMPLETELY validates this OP. sabrina 1 Nov 2013 #239

Then why dont you simply trash this thread and/or put Manny on ignore? rhett o rick Nov 2013 #132

So why don't you ... 1StrongBlackMan Nov 2013 #137

And here comes the White Knight to the rescue. No one with a less than glowing word for Manny Number23 Nov 2013 #181

What I notice is that those of you that seem to attack in harmony dont have rhett o rick Nov 2013 #188

Considering the amount of misspelled hysteria-ladden vitriol you spew all over this web site Number23 Nov 2013 #190

Let's look at the irony. You posted that the OP was shitty. Now why would you do that if rhett o rick Nov 2013 #192

Posting an OPINION of a post does not mean that I am trying to dictate what is posted here Number23 Nov 2013 #194

You just cant help yourself can you? rhett o rick Nov 2013 #196

I see you attack dog anyone that dares to post a different opinion in thread after thread after Number23 Nov 2013 #198

So let's look at who the bully is. rhett o rick Nov 2013 #280

The fact that you chose to overlook my comments is on you, not me Number23 Nov 2013 #281

Go bully someone else. nm rhett o rick Nov 2013 #282

And people that make it their life's mission to disparage centrists and moderates should be the last 2banon Nov 2013 #229

You are aware you lost any ground when you used this phrase: Raine1967 Nov 2013 #208

The OP is expressing the feelings typical of those on the left that are unwilling to accept rhett o rick Nov 2013 #260

Manny has laid out his premise. I think you are missing the deeper message here. Raine1967 Nov 2013 #261

There is a misunderstanding. I am referring to those posts that provide rhett o rick Nov 2013 #268

No. I disagree with this. Raine1967 Nov 2013 #278

Great post and I sincerely appreciate your trying to understand and explain to those who need this Number23 Nov 2013 #275

I wish my point was understood by more than you. Raine1967 Nov 2013 #279

The whingeing of the overprivileged is a sound that can be heard for miles. nt msanthrope Nov 2013 #162

Ain't that the truth. And the whining of the overprivileged left is practically indistinguishable Number23 Nov 2013 #182

How much is the minimum wage where you live? n/t Fumesucker Nov 2013 #216

Didn't someone else already answer your pointless little question? Number23 Nov 2013 #217

Most of those other posters aren't telling Americans to shut the fuck up Fumesucker Nov 2013 #219

LOL Like I said, we don't have a damn thing to say to one another Number23 Nov 2013 #225

Bless your heart Fumesucker Nov 2013 #226

Oh, honey I have been blessed in so many ways. Which is why I have 1/100th the level of bitterness Number23 Nov 2013 #228

Three hundred and twenty recs for an OP you described as "shitty" Fumesucker Nov 2013 #232

LOL! You say that like it means ANYTHING at all. To ANYBODY Number23 Nov 2013 #235

your reactions are curiously over the top 2banon Nov 2013 #240

Are you lonely or something? You keep replying to me... why? Number23 Nov 2013 #242

oh, really? Like You for instance? LOL! 2banon Nov 2013 #243

define "Over Privileged Left" please. 2banon Nov 2013 #230

Going to an Ivy. Which is why I don't whinge. nt msanthrope Nov 2013 #254

Well...the two ends meet at "Damn You Obama!" and msanthrope Nov 2013 #270

If you are suggesting Manny is 'overprivileged . . . markpkessinger Nov 2013 #218

Ha, I had you pegged as an Ivy Leaguer. joshcryer Nov 2013 #18

Because I'm an effete asswipe? MannyGoldstein Nov 2013 #22

I always pictured you with a pipe. Spitfire of ATJ Nov 2013 #41

Hmm... MannyGoldstein Nov 2013 #44

You need more slack Manny... n/t PoliticAverse Nov 2013 #65

And frop. MannyGoldstein Nov 2013 #101

Because you're just so wrong all the time. joshcryer Nov 2013 #59

Totally with you, Manny! JDPriestly Nov 2013 #19

I love it, Bro. 99Forever Nov 2013 #23

We need a REVOLUTION IN CONCIOUSNESS. DeSwiss Nov 2013 #25

+1 NoOneMan Nov 2013 #31

+ 1,000,000,000... What You Said !!! - K & R !!! WillyT Nov 2013 #33

How do we get people to wake the #%^* up? MannyGoldstein Nov 2013 #36

Like with Pavlov? More conditioned response? DeSwiss Nov 2013 #77

+10000000000 woo me with science Nov 2013 #40

+1 leftstreet Nov 2013 #74

BINGO. Unless you change the way money works, you change nothing. n/t robertpaulsen Nov 2013 #179

Insert some famous quote about "give me the power to issue a nation's currency BelgianMadCow Nov 2013 #191

I've heard that before. robertpaulsen Nov 2013 #200

What money ideas do you like? PETRUS Nov 2013 #205

Technocracy as proposed by M. King Hubbert is an interesting idea. robertpaulsen Nov 2013 #272

Thanks. PETRUS Nov 2013 #285

Yes (X3). Are you familiar with the solutions Bernard Lietaer advocates? BelgianMadCow Nov 2013 #246

I was not familiar with Lietaer. I find his ideas intriguing! robertpaulsen Nov 2013 #271

Glad you liked it. Local currency can connect unmet needs with unused resources BelgianMadCow Nov 2013 #273

''Insert some famous quote....'' DeSwiss Nov 2013 #206

Huge, huge, huge, huge, huge K&R. woo me with science Nov 2013 #37

I'm right there with ya Manny. Phlem Nov 2013 #54

Don't know if you saw this essay, but ... Laelth Nov 2013 #126

Thank you Laelth Phlem Nov 2013 #220

Glad you enjoyed it. Laelth Nov 2013 #249

K&R liberal_at_heart Nov 2013 #58

K&R.... daleanime Nov 2013 #60

Angry... K & R !!! WillyT Nov 2013 #64

I read that Hillary thinks there's not enough "unity" in DC. She is a reason why we're at this bad blkmusclmachine Nov 2013 #80

+1. n/t Laelth Nov 2013 #128

Great post MannyG. PumpkinAle Nov 2013 #81

Hey Manny if you want to view something inspiring and maddening at the same time, watch the video Uncle Joe Nov 2013 #82

I'm in GROUP 1, and I've observed the same thing about my college pals. TrollBuster9090 Nov 2013 #83

Excellent analysis. +1. n/t Laelth Nov 2013 #130

I largely agree with your analysis; but ... 1StrongBlackMan Nov 2013 #136

I agree to a point. I think that powered most of the destruction during the 80s and 90s. TrollBuster9090 Nov 2013 #207

I would agree ... 1StrongBlackMan Nov 2013 #213

hard for me to believe all those ivy leaguers hfojvt Nov 2013 #84

I think you're on to something there... Blanks Nov 2013 #112

my cars are 20 and 22 years old hfojvt Nov 2013 #139

I used to ride a bike everywhere I went... Blanks Nov 2013 #143

you never negotiate with your betrayer where in the back to be stabbed. NuttyFluffers Nov 2013 #85

100% Agreed! Fearless Nov 2013 #87

I'm with you Manny and in the same boat KauaiK Nov 2013 #88

"Where seldom is heard a discouraging word moondust Nov 2013 #90

Another great post. bearssoapbox Nov 2013 #91

Another "Dems are the same as GOP" thread disguised as a populist rant scheming daemons Nov 2013 #92

+1 treestar Nov 2013 #135

What no counter argument? Just snark? If you support the conservative status quo rhett o rick Nov 2013 #266

-1 L0oniX Nov 2013 #150

-2 Enthusiast Nov 2013 #184

+1 great white snark Nov 2013 #203

Is that all you've got? Snark? If you disagree, provide an argument. nm rhett o rick Nov 2013 #265

awwwww.... try harder fascisthunter Nov 2013 #286

Great post (again) Manny, but perhaps the best comes from your detractors .... Scuba Nov 2013 #93

They have made themselves so obvious in this thread. bvar22 Nov 2013 #166

Completely Agree bvar22 2banon Nov 2013 #233

Agreed. Puglover Nov 2013 #169

Kicked and Recommended. Enthusiast Nov 2013 #94

They "borrowed" the money quaker bill Nov 2013 #95

rec Demo_Chris Nov 2013 #96

Manny, I think this is one of your best posts. Thanks. LuvNewcastle Nov 2013 #97

du rec. xchrom Nov 2013 #98

"The ship's going down, baby" -- TBF Nov 2013 #99

I'm glad that somebody pointed this out... Blanks Nov 2013 #140

If we could adjust both taxes and minimum TBF Nov 2013 #146

. . . Triana Nov 2013 #100

You sound exactly like my hyper-paranoid office-mate. tridim Nov 2013 #103

You're correct, the 99% is losing economic ground, that's definitely change n/t Fumesucker Nov 2013 #113

Absolutely! NealK Nov 2013 #155

Change is happening? bvar22 Nov 2013 #164

Excellent, devastating documentation - thanks dougolat Nov 2013 #245

of course change is happening: Because Obama! KG Nov 2013 #247

Yes you support the "change is happening". The Corporation profits are on rhett o rick Nov 2013 #267

Then spread the word, we fight for Publicly Funded Elections and Complete Campaign Dustlawyer Nov 2013 #104

+ 10000 woo me with science Nov 2013 #105

I do what I can. People from my generation will fare worse in retirement than before SS Dustlawyer Nov 2013 #108

Oh sure. So how do WE choose who will be the candidates? L0oniX Nov 2013 #151

I would find ones that will agree to pass CFR and Publicly Funded Elections. I did not say it Dustlawyer Nov 2013 #159

this is the only way noiretextatique Nov 2013 #172

I get it. Puglover Nov 2013 #106

You're not mad, Manny, you're paying attention. And you're right, change is needed and fast. marble falls Nov 2013 #107

You just described my bumper sticker. navarth Nov 2013 #161

succinctly put! heaven05 Nov 2013 #109

Luck is the primary determinant. Laelth Nov 2013 #114

Lost Causes... adirondacker Nov 2013 #118

Well said, Manny, & I'm with you 100%! K & R mother earth Nov 2013 #119

Reaching up from the swampy economic ground.... Laxman Nov 2013 #124

Righteous rant. The cream of the Wall St crimminal minds have been graduating from those Ivy League raouldukelives Nov 2013 #129

So a sad story of one person means the whole country is going down? treestar Nov 2013 #134

There are a lot of sad stories out there. Wall Street is recovering. The middle class isn't. n/t winter is coming Nov 2013 #259

You've written some great stuff, Manny Ishoutandscream2 Nov 2013 #141

The first thing we have to do is get people to wake the hell up AndyA Nov 2013 #144

THAT'S Why Hillary WON'T do! bluedeathray Nov 2013 #145

Voting will not do either. You can't vote Goldman Sachs out of office. L0oniX Nov 2013 #149

Perhaps, but bluedeathray Nov 2013 #153

"Those who make peaceful revolution impossible.... bvar22 Nov 2013 #262

You mad, bro? senseandsensibility Nov 2013 #147

I'm sure that this can all be fixed if the right Dem is voted into office. L0oniX Nov 2013 #148

When DU posters ask "Why you are so angry, Manny?", it is a propaganda device Zorra Nov 2013 #154

Exactly! n/t markpkessinger Nov 2013 #199

K&R NealK Nov 2013 #156

If you want to know why we are losing DonCoquixote Nov 2013 #157

One of the very BEST posts to DU ever. bvar22 Nov 2013 #158

I am angry also. But as you can see from this thread, there are so-called "politically liberal" rhett o rick Nov 2013 #195

The Bubble of Denial! bvar22 Nov 2013 #204

Damn. Right. n/t lumberjack_jeff Nov 2013 #167

K&R... awoke_in_2003 Nov 2013 #170

sounds like my story noiretextatique Nov 2013 #171

We Need Middle Class People to Get It. colsohlibgal Nov 2013 #177

I know who the enemy is, Manny. R. Daneel Olivaw Nov 2013 #185

Although it is sad that so many that are well educated are just getting by, truedelphi Nov 2013 #187

agreed DonCoquixote Nov 2013 #193

Wow -- incredibly powerful! markpkessinger Nov 2013 #197

THIS is the reason why: Benton D Struckcheon Nov 2013 #201

K&R pscot Nov 2013 #210

Any American... sendero Nov 2013 #215

amen. nashville_brook Nov 2013 #256

Best Discussion on Class Analysis I've seen on DU yet. 2banon Nov 2013 #222

kr Norrin Radd Nov 2013 #248

I thought you were angry because McCain beat Obama?... SidDithers Nov 2013 #251

Nope, I'm angry because Obama ran on a platform of Hope and Change, MannyGoldstein Nov 2013 #252

You must have really been pissed when Obama beat Romney... SidDithers Nov 2013 #253

"Can you believe the Pope doesn't want kids to have to sleep in cars?" ProSense Nov 2013 #255

OK, let's do the numbers. MannyGoldstein Nov 2013 #257

OH, but Manny, its not the President cutting Head Start, Meals-on-Wheels, Food Stamps... bvar22 Nov 2013 #264

And you gotta love how that post was made barely TWO YEARS into the President's tenure Number23 Nov 2013 #277

Good rant Manny. I see you flushed out the conservative-Dems among us. rhett o rick Nov 2013 #269

kick. Stay angry. nt woo me with science Nov 2013 #283

Eugene Robinson: The US is Better Off Than You Think SidDithers Nov 2013 #284