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avaistheone1

(14,626 posts)
132. HSCA said Ruby had many key Mafia links.
Tue Nov 12, 2013, 03:31 AM
Nov 2013
The evidence available to the committee . . . showed that he [Ruby] had a significant number of associations and direct and indirect contacts with underworld figures, a number of whom were connected to the most powerful La Cosa Nostra leaders. Additionally, Ruby had numerous associations with the Dallas criminal element.

The committee also examined allegations that, even before the 1947 move to Dallas, Ruby had been personally acquainted with two professional killers for the organized crime syndicate in Chicago, David Yaras and Lenny Patrick. The committee established that Ruby, Yaras and Patrick were in fact acquainted during Ruby's years in Chicago, particularly in the 1930's and 1940's. Both Yaras and Patrick admitted, when questioned by the FBI in 1964, that they did know Ruby, but both said that they had not had any contact with him for 10 to 15 years. Yaras and Patrick further maintained they had never been particularly close to Ruby, had never visited him in Dallas and had no knowledge of Ruby being connected to organized crime. Indeed, the Warren Commission used Patrick's statement as a footnote citation in its report to support its conclusion that Ruby did not have significant syndicate associations.

On the other hand, the committee established that Yaras and Patrick were, in fact, notorious gunmen, having been identified by law enforcement authorities as executioners for the Chicago mob and closely associated with Sam Giancana, the organized crime leader in Chicago who was murdered in 1975. Yaras and Patrick are believed to have been responsible for numerous syndicate executions. including the murder of James Ragan, a gambling wire service owner. The evidence implicating Yaras and Patrick in syndicate activities is unusually reliable. Yaras, for example, was overheard in a 1962 electronic surveillance discussing various underworld murder contracts he had carried out and one he had only recently been assigned. While the committee found no evidence that Ruby was associated with Yaras or Patrick during the 1950s or 1960s, it concluded that Ruby had probably talked by telephone to Patrick during the summer of 1963.

Included among Ruby's closest friends was Lewis McWillie. McWillie moved from Dallas to Cuba in 1958 and worked in gambling casinos in Havana until 1960. In 1978, McWillie was employed in Las Vegas, and law enforcement files indicate he had business and personal ties to major organized crime figures, including Meyer Lansky and Santos Trafficante.

Ruby traveled to Cuba on at least one occasion to visit McWillie. McWillie testified to the committee that Ruby visited him only once in Cuba, and that it was a social visit. The Warren Commission concluded this was the only trip Ruby took to Cuba,39 despite documentation in the Commission's own files indicating Ruby made a second trip.


Both Ruby and McWillie claimed that Ruby's visit to Cuba was at McWillie's invitation and lasted about a week in the late summer or early fall of 1959. The committee, however, obtained tourist cards from the Cuban Government that show Ruby entered Cuba on August 8, 1959, left on September 11, reentered on September 12 and left again on September 13, 1959. These documents supplement records the committee obtained from the Immigration and Naturalization Service (INS) indicating that Ruby left Cuba on September 11, 1959, traveling to Miami, returned to Cuba on September 12, and traveled on to New Orleans on September 13, 1959. The Cuban Government could not state with certainty that the commercial airline flights indicated by the INS records were the only ones Ruby took during the period.

Other records obtained by the committee indicate that Ruby was in Dallas at times during the August 8 to September 11, 1959, period. He apparently visited his safe deposit box on August 21, met with FBI Agent Charles W. Flynn on August 31,(2) and returned to the safe deposit box on September 4. Consequently, if the tourist card documentation, INS, FBI, and bank records are all correct, Ruby had to have made at least three trips to Cuba. While the records appeared to be accurate, they were incomplete. The committee was unable to determine, for example, whether on the third trip, if it occurred, Ruby traveled by commercial airline or some other means. Consequently, the committee could not rule out the possibility that Ruby made more trips during this period or at other times.

Based on the unusual nature of the 1-day trip to Miami from Havana on September 11-12 and the possibility of at least one additional trip to Cuba, the committee concluded that vacationing was probably not the purpose for traveling to Havana, despite Ruby's insistence to the Warren Commission that his one trip to Cuba in 1959 was a social visit. The committee reached the judgment that Ruby most likely was serving as a courier for gambling interests when he traveled to Miami from Havana for 1 day, then returned to Cuba for a day, before flying to New Orleans.

The committee also deemed it likely that Ruby at least met various organized crime figures in Cuba, possibly including some who had been detained by the Cuban government. In fact, Ruby told the Warren Commission that he was later visited in Dallas by McWillie and a Havana casino owner and that they had discussed the gambling business in Cuba.

It has been charged that Ruby met with Santos Trafficante in Cuba sometime in 1959. Trafficante, regarded as one of the Nation's most powerful organized crime figures, was to become a key participant in Castro assassination attempts by the Mafia and the CIA from 1960 to 1963. The committee developed circumstantial evidence that makes a meeting between Ruby and Trafficante a distinct possibility. . . .

While allegations of a Ruby link to Trafficante had previously been raised, mainly due to McWillie's alleged close connections to the Mafia leader, it was not until recent years that they received serious attention. Trafficante had long been recognized by law enforcement officials as a leading member of the La Cosa Nostra, but he did not become the object of significant public attention in connection with the assassination of the President until his participation in the assassination plots against Castro was disclosed in 1975.

In 1976, in response to a freedom of information suit, the CIA declassified a State Department cablegram received from London on November 28, 1963. It read:

On 26 November 1963, a British Journalist named John Wilson, and also known as Wilson-Hudson, gave information to the American Embassy in London which indicated that an "American gangster-type named Ruby" visited Cuba around 1959. Wilson himself was working in Cuba at that time and was jailed by Castro before he was deported.


In prison in Cuba, Wilson says he met an American gangster/gambler named Santos who could not return to the U.S.A. Instead he preferred to live in relative luxury in a Cuban prison. While Santos was in prison, Wilson says, Santos was visited frequently by an American gangster type named Ruby. . . .

The committee was able . . . to develop corroborative information to the effect that Wilson-Hudson was incarcerated at the same detention camp in Cuba as Trafficante. . . .

The committee investigated other aspects of Ruby's activities that might have shown an association with organized crime figures. An extensive computer analysis of his telephone toll records for the month prior to the President's assassination revealed that he either placed calls to or received calls from a number of individuals who may be fairly characterized as having been affiliated, directly or indirectly, with organized crime. These included Irwin Weiner, a Chicago bondsman well-known as a frontman for organized crime and the Teamsters Union;83 Robert "Barney" Baker, a lieutenant of James R Hoffa and associate of several convicted organized crime executioners: Nofio J. Pecora, a lieutenant of Carlos Marcello, the Mafia boss in Louisiana; Harold Tannenbaum, a New Orleans French Quarter nightclub manager who lived in a trailer park owned by Pecora; McWillie, the Havana gambler; and Murray "Dusty" Miller, a Teamster deputy of Hoffa and associate of various underworld figures. Additionally, the committee concluded that Ruby was also probably in telephonic contact with Mafia executioner Lenny Patrick sometime during the summer of 1963. Although no such call was indicated in the available Ruby telephone records, Ruby's sister, Eva Grant, told the Warren Commission that Ruby had spoken more than once of having contacted Patrick by telephone during that period. . . .


[After opining that the timing of the long-distance calls was "consistent" with the explanation that Ruby made them to discuss his labor problems, and that "testimony" given to the committee "supported" the view that the calls were "by and large" related to Ruby's alleged AGVA labor problems, the committee then went on to note that at least some of those calls probably involved more than just a discussion of a "labor dispute":]

In light of the identity of some of the individuals, however, the possibility of other matters being discussed [during the long-distance phone calls] could not be dismissed.

In particular, the committee was not satisfied with the explanations of three individuals closely associated with organized crime who received telephone calls from Ruby in October or November 1963. Weiner, the Chicago bondsman, refused to discuss his call from Ruby on October 26, 1963, with the FBI in 1964, and he told a reporter in 1978 that the call had nothing to do with labor problems. In his executive session testimony before the committee, however, Weiner stated that he had lied to the reporter, and he claimed that he and Ruby had in fact, discussed a labor dispute. The committee was not satisfied with Weiner's explanation of his relationship with Ruby. Weiner suggested Ruby was seeking a bond necessary to obtain an injunction in his labor troubles, yet the committee could find no other creditable indication that Ruby contemplated seeking court relief, nor any other explanation for his having to go to Chicago for such a bond.

Barney Baker told the FBI in 1964 that he had received only one telephone call from Ruby (on Nov. 7, 1963) during which he had curtly dismissed Ruby's plea for assistance in a nightclub labor dispute. The committee established, however, that Baker received a second lengthy call from Ruby on November 8. The committee found it hard to believe that Baker, who denied the conversation ever took place, could have forgotten it.

The committee was also dissatisfied with the explanation of a call Ruby made on October 30, 1963, to the New Orleans trailer park office of Nofio J. Pecora, the longtime Marcello lieutenant. Pecora told the committee that only he would have answered his phone and that he never spoke with Ruby or took a message from him. The committee considered the possibility that the call was actually for Harold Tannenbaum, a mutual friend of Ruby and Pecora who lived in the trailer park, although Pecora denied he would have relayed such a message.


Additionally, the committee found it difficult to dismiss certain Ruby associations with the explanation that they were solely related to his labor problems. For example, James Henry Dolan, a Dallas AGVA representative, was reportedly an acquaintance of both Carlos Marcello and Santos Trafficante. While Dolan worked with Ruby on labor matters, they were also allegedly associated in other dealings, including a strong-arm attempt to appropriate the proceeds of a one-night performance of a stage review at the Adolphus Hotel in Dallas called "Bottoms Up." The FBI, moreover, has identified Dolan as an associate of Nofio Pecora. The committee noted further that reported links between AGVA and organized crime figures have been the subject of Federal and State investigations that have been underway for years. The committee's difficulties in separating Ruby's AGVA contacts from his organized crime connections was, in large degree, based on the dual roles that many of his associates played. (HSCA Report, Section I C 4)

Excerpts from organized crime expert John Davis's book MAFIA KINGFISH, focusing on Ruby's ties to one of the most powerful Mafia figures in the country in the 1960s, Carlos Marcello, who was known to hate Kennedy and who was heard by five people, two of them police informants, to acknowledge involvement in Kennedy's assassination

And what did the Assassinations Committee [i.e., the HSCA] discover about Jack Ruby's connections to the Marcello crime family?

First, the Ruby-Marcello connections in Dallas. The Assassinations Committee established that Jack Ruby was a friend and business associate of Joseph Civello's, Carlos Marcello's deputy in Dallas and the boss of Dallas's relatively small Mafia family, a reality that J. Edgar Hoover tried to keep from the attention of the Warren Commission and which the commission itself suppressed by not mentioning it in its report or published exhibits. Furthermore, it [the HSCA] established that Ruby was on very cordial terms with Joseph Campisi, who, the committee found out, was considered to be the number two man in the Dallas Mafia hierarchy and a man on such friendly terms with the Marcello brothers that he sent the family 260 pounds of homemade sausage every Christmas.

Campisi told the committee that he knew all of the Marcello brothers and used to go often to New Orleans to play golf and go to the track with Vincent, Anthony, and Sammy [Marcello]. It was Vincent who first introduced him to Carlos and Joe, and Carlos had taken to him to such an extent that he invited him several times to his fishing camp at Grand Isle, where Campisi would cook spaghetti for Carlos and all the brothers and their friends.

Joe Campisi, as we know, owned the Egyptian Lounge. In its interview with Campisi the Assassinations Committee obtained an admission from him that Jack Ruby had dined with him at the lounge the evening before Kennedy was assassinated. Campisi also admitted that he had visited Ruby in the Dallas County Jail eight days after the assassination.

It is one of the practices of the Mafia to visit a member of the brotherhood who has been jailed for a crime in which the brotherhood was involved soon after he first enters his cell. One of the purposes of such a visit is to remind the jailed colleague that he is to keep his mouth shut or else something unpleasant might happen to him or to a member of his family. This is usually done in subtle ways.


Joe Campisi was Ruby's first visitor after his imprisonment for murdering the President's alleged assassin. (Incredibly, the Dallas Police did not record the ten-minute conversation between Oswald's murderer and a man known to be a close associate of Carlos Marcello's deputy in Dallas.) Campisi brought his wife along with him--an unusual move, for Mafiosi almost never include their wives in meetings at which urgent matters are to be discussed, however obliquely. Former Chief Counsel Blakey speculates that Campisi brought his wife along so as not to arouse the police's suspicion. When questioned by the Assassinations Committee as to what Ruby said during their meeting, Campisi did not recall much but did remember vividly what had already become Ruby's stock answer to the question of why he killed Oswald: to spare Jacqueline Kennedy and her children the pain of an eventual trial of Lee Harvey Oswald. (Later a handwritten note of Ruby's to one of his attorneys was discovered in which Ruby admitted he was lying, that a former attorney, Tom Howard, a friend of Campisi's, told him to use the Jacqueline Kennedy story as an alibi.)

Campisi told the committee substantially what he told the FBI three weeks after the assassination: that when he and wife arrived at Ruby's cell, they found him crying: "Here I am fighting for my life and feeling sorry for myself," Ruby was supposed to have moaned, "when I really feel sorry for Mrs. Kennedy and the kids."

Campisi's original testimony to the FBI about his meeting with Ruby in jail, which, in turn, had been transmitted to the Warren Commission, had been a masterful performance. It had conveyed the impression that Mr. and Mrs. Campisi's visit to Mr. Jack Ruby was simply a visit to an old and dear friend who had gotten into a little trouble. It reinforced Ruby's professed patriotic indignation and sympathy for Jacqueline Kennedy and her kids. But fourteen years later Campisi's story did not convince the House Select on Assassinations that the purpose of his visit to prisoner Ruby was so innocent. The committee took note that Jack Ruby had dined with a Dallas-based member of the Marcello organization the evening before the assassination of the President and that the same Dallas-based member of the Marcello organization was the first person to visit Ruby after he had been jailed for the murder of the President's alleged assassin. The committee had little choice but to regard the Ruby-Campisi relationship and the Campisi-Marcello relationship as yet another set of associations strengthening the committee's growing suspicion of the Marcello crime family's involvement in a conspiracy to assassinate President Kennedy or execute the President's alleged assassin or both.

Contributing to that suspicion, the committee discovered yet another friend of Jack Ruby's with a connection to the Marcello organization. His name was James Henry Dolan, and he was a representative of the Dallas chapter of the mob-controlled American Guild of Variety Artists. The committee found out that Dolan was a close friend of Carlos Marcello's lieutenant Nofio Pecora and that Dolan had spent several days conferring with Ruby in Dallas two months before the assassination.

As for Jack Ruby's connections with the Marcello organization in New Orleans, the committee was to confirm certain connections the FBI had been aware of at the time of the assassination but had never forcefully brought to the attention of the Warren Commission. The committee was able to confirm that Ruby met with New Orleans nightclub operators and Marcello associates Harold Tannenbaum, Frank Caracci, Cleeve Dugas, and Nick Graffagnini (one of Pete Marcello's managers at the Marcello-owned Sho-Bar on Bourbon Street) in June and October 1963 and made a telephone call on October 30 to the New Orleans office of Marcello associate Nofio Pecora, whose associate, Emile Bruneau, had bailed Lee Harvey Oswald out of jail that summer. (MAFIA KINGFISH, pp. 449-451)
I have always felt that Oswald was a set up. gopiscrap Nov 2013 #1
And you reached that conclusion after reading the Warren Commission Report, right? stopbush Nov 2013 #15
after reading all sorts of stuff gopiscrap Nov 2013 #16
Translation: NO, I have never read the WCR. stopbush Nov 2013 #20
arrogant much? grasswire Nov 2013 #54
So, let me get this straight: stopbush Nov 2013 #57
Where does it say he hasn't read it? You know what they say about people who make assumptions.... madmom Nov 2013 #81
I have actually read it twice gopiscrap Nov 2013 #85
there's an old saying.... RussBLib Nov 2013 #84
Trust me, it sounds less arrogant in the original Klingon. stopbush Nov 2013 #218
The only person who claims the poster hasn't read it is YOU. RetroLounge Nov 2013 #130
Impossible, superior lifeforms do not apologize to mental mendicants. Rex Nov 2013 #237
Are you saying...? zappaman Nov 2013 #239
Totally. Rex Nov 2013 #248
Seems to be the only way that one can communicate with others. Rex Nov 2013 #236
ah actually I have read it twice. gopiscrap Nov 2013 #68
I'm inclined to suggest that SheilaT Nov 2013 #220
Sylvia Meagher Bobcat Nov 2013 #77
Interesting. DanTex Nov 2013 #102
I hope someone knowledgeable here will answer your question. AmBlue Nov 2013 #118
John McAdams puts all the facts in one place. zappaman Nov 2013 #257
Thanks! AmBlue Nov 2013 #259
You're very welcome! zappaman Nov 2013 #260
Mary Ferrell org makes a good place to start... Octafish Nov 2013 #255
Thanks! AmBlue Nov 2013 #258
You are most welcome, AmBlue! Octafish Nov 2013 #261
I always thought Jack Ruby was the key Warpy Nov 2013 #27
Right. Ruby was diagnosed with cancer in Dec, 1966. stopbush Nov 2013 #32
You're welcome to your opinion Warpy Nov 2013 #35
It's not my "opinion" that Ruby was diagnosed with cancer in 1966. it's a fact. stopbush Nov 2013 #38
So what was Ruby's motive? MythosMaster Nov 2013 #83
All covered in the WCR and other fact-based accounts. stopbush Nov 2013 #110
The WCR and other unnamed "fact based" accounts... MythosMaster Nov 2013 #137
The official story is so hard to believe that it makes one look silly Rex Nov 2013 #171
I concur. MythosMaster Nov 2013 #188
Ruby was a Mafia operative. former9thward Nov 2013 #88
What a joke. Your proof for that claim? stopbush Nov 2013 #109
HSCA said Ruby had many key Mafia links. avaistheone1 Nov 2013 #132
I've often wondered about this question and answer... KansDem Nov 2013 #228
Ruby was one of LBJ's boys. roamer65 Nov 2013 #240
So let's smear LBJ in the process of being a birther, er, JFK CTist. stopbush Nov 2013 #244
What proof? former9thward Nov 2013 #142
He knew a couple Mafia guys. HooptieWagon Nov 2013 #131
Ruby had serious Mafia connections to Ruby beyond the strip club. avaistheone1 Nov 2013 #133
He had even more police connections. HooptieWagon Nov 2013 #135
No he did not have more police connections. former9thward Nov 2013 #143
His easy access to the DPD building HooptieWagon Nov 2013 #147
You are ignoring his mob history in Chicago. former9thward Nov 2013 #154
WTF? Someone else killed Cooke, he and Ruby were close friends. HooptieWagon Nov 2013 #156
I wish the Chicago Tribune back issues were on line. former9thward Nov 2013 #159
Your source (that you don't link) is wrong. HooptieWagon Nov 2013 #174
That I don't link???? former9thward Nov 2013 #180
You say the the WC didn't address many questions. I have a question for you: stopbush Nov 2013 #34
Yes, years ago Warpy Nov 2013 #36
Then you must be equipped to disprove the evidence offered in the WCR. stopbush Nov 2013 #39
interesting. i believe there were DesertFlower Nov 2013 #70
RFK Jr. said his father got the phone records of Ruby and Oswald KurtNYC Nov 2013 #72
Jack Ruby was a lone nut who killed a lone nut. There was no conspiracy and I think duffyduff Nov 2013 #145
The NYT Magazine article yesterday disputes Point #1. maxsolomon Nov 2013 #2
Maybe... Jeff In Milwaukee Nov 2013 #4
Maybe... maxsolomon Nov 2013 #9
What we know about Chapman and Hinckley Jeff In Milwaukee Nov 2013 #28
The way OJ bragged about killing his wife? stopbush Nov 2013 #42
Point Taken (nt) Jeff In Milwaukee Nov 2013 #46
not really. It says Lee was controlling of Marina KurtNYC Nov 2013 #13
It has to do with Oswald's being "exceptional" Jeff In Milwaukee Nov 2013 #30
Lee Harvey Oswald and David Ferrie were both in the Civil Air Patrol. factsarenotfair Nov 2013 #3
8 years earlier, when Oswald was 16. HooptieWagon Nov 2013 #47
Judyth Baker puts them both together in New Orleans KurtNYC Nov 2013 #74
Judyth Baker is a nut job. HooptieWagon Nov 2013 #79
Cancun? THAT's the part of her story that you call BS on?? KurtNYC Nov 2013 #93
Nope. zappaman Nov 2013 #95
I am believer that one canlearn more from those who disagree with them KurtNYC Nov 2013 #105
She's supposedly a super-gifted genius bio-chemist... HooptieWagon Nov 2013 #128
A good lie has a few truths sprinkled in to make it believable. HooptieWagon Nov 2013 #97
lol. When point number 1 is as baldfaced as this, I don't need to read the rest. Schema Thing Nov 2013 #5
+1 zappaman Nov 2013 #7
Yep. Count Kurt among the uninformed and easily duped. stopbush Nov 2013 #8
#1 is way off base. All the other points are accurate, but unimportant given the CIA admission. ieoeja Nov 2013 #40
Oswald's CIA 201 file is NOT a personnel record. stopbush Nov 2013 #45
Thanks! What I saw at the time said "personnel". I didn't delve into it because I find all of this ieoeja Nov 2013 #49
Oswalds father died before he was born. HooptieWagon Nov 2013 #53
An "expert marksmen". former9thward Nov 2013 #98
Your name wouldn't happen to be Richard, would it? n/t ieoeja Nov 2013 #99
I guess that is an inside joke because I don't get it. former9thward Nov 2013 #100
Oswald never attained the rank of Expert shooter in the Marines. stopbush Nov 2013 #112
Thru the maple trees? FogerRox Nov 2013 #121
Let's see you make those three shots in that time period. former9thward Nov 2013 #141
I couldn't, but plenty of people have made those shots, with accuracy stopbush Nov 2013 #152
Ohh, plenty of people. former9thward Nov 2013 #158
Try reading the WCR - you might not come off as such a fool. stopbush Nov 2013 #187
When you have to resort to name calling you lose. former9thward Nov 2013 #190
And do you go through life believing every cheap bromide out there? stopbush Nov 2013 #195
No, I like RFK rejected the Warren Report. former9thward Nov 2013 #196
Wrong again. stopbush Nov 2013 #197
No, I'm not wrong. His son said his father had a different view in private. former9thward Nov 2013 #198
Do we have evidence of RFK saying this? zappaman Nov 2013 #200
Well, I guess it is too late to ask him. former9thward Nov 2013 #201
Do you have evidence his son is telling the truth? n/t zappaman Nov 2013 #203
Do you have evidence his son is a liar? former9thward Nov 2013 #209
You mean Mr Anti-vaccination himself, RFK Jr? stopbush Nov 2013 #204
So his son is a liar according to you. former9thward Nov 2013 #208
Guess so, since as you can see clearly see zappaman Nov 2013 #210
From the link. former9thward Nov 2013 #211
Liar isn't the right word. stopbush Nov 2013 #215
Don't forget lack of evidence "proves" a conspiracy. HooptieWagon Nov 2013 #129
No kidding. Bolo Boffin Nov 2013 #78
Just wondering... moondust Nov 2013 #6
Ever notice how the CTists find it "fishy" that the Dallas Police could nab Oswald so quickly stopbush Nov 2013 #24
Um, The Bombers Were on Video! Oswald Wasn't ProfessorGAC Nov 2013 #183
Oh, the DPD had plenty, especially as they were working with the Fed agencies from the get-go. stopbush Nov 2013 #189
While I never believed Oswald acted alone, something's fishy here. A Marine working on the U2??? Scuba Nov 2013 #10
He was assigned to Atsugi Air Force Base in Japan, home of the U2 spy plane. KurtNYC Nov 2013 #14
I was assigned to Andrews AFB, home of Air Force One. Doesn't mean I worked on it. Scuba Nov 2013 #29
You've never even met Harrison Ford... Jeff In Milwaukee Nov 2013 #33
Actually, I did, but that's another story. Scuba Nov 2013 #37
Were you involved in air traffic control like Oswald was? nt hack89 Nov 2013 #51
He didn't "work" on the U2 hack89 Nov 2013 #50
Or getting to go to the USSR and come back as if nothing happened Rex Nov 2013 #167
And when, exactly, did you read the WCR? stopbush Nov 2013 #227
I'm sorry, but that is all you keep saying over and over again to people. Rex Nov 2013 #231
Only to people like you whose posts indicate they haven't read the WCR stopbush Nov 2013 #242
Most of those points oswaldactedalone Nov 2013 #11
By your user name there is nothing that could change your mind. former9thward Nov 2013 #94
Not true oswaldactedalone Nov 2013 #185
Um...no Spider Jerusalem Nov 2013 #12
And the award to most cogent comeback of the day goes to...Spider Jerusalem! randome Nov 2013 #17
Thanks for the factual corrective, not that it will change the minds of the easily duped. stopbush Nov 2013 #18
So Ruby wanted his dog found and cared for. KurtNYC Nov 2013 #21
That's what Ruby did say, after all. stopbush Nov 2013 #25
Ruby's own words regarding a conspiracy. zappaman Nov 2013 #26
Many issues with Howard Brennan's description and account KurtNYC Nov 2013 #19
Brennan didn't say he did. Try reading your own link. Spider Jerusalem Nov 2013 #23
Oswald had no motive? stopbush Nov 2013 #117
Why did Ruby go to the police station armed with a pistol with every intent on coming back? Uncle Joe Nov 2013 #52
Because he went armed everywhere? Spider Jerusalem Nov 2013 #59
Good question.. zappaman Nov 2013 #60
Ruby went to the police station several times after Oswald had been arrested as my post# 55 Uncle Joe Nov 2013 #69
Ruby went to the police station all the time. Spider Jerusalem Nov 2013 #71
Yes Ruby associated with the police and the mafia and what do the cops do Uncle Joe Nov 2013 #73
... Spider Jerusalem Nov 2013 #75
Security was lax even for that day and age especially considering the prisoner they held. Uncle Joe Nov 2013 #96
Here are some other interesting tidbits about Ruby. Uncle Joe Nov 2013 #55
Here are some interesting tidbits about the Mafia and the CIA. Uncle Joe Nov 2013 #58
Which has exactly what to do with Oswald? Spider Jerusalem Nov 2013 #63
I'm not disputing that Oswald was the gun man. Uncle Joe Nov 2013 #103
He had connections to a Russian emigre in Dallas. Spider Jerusalem Nov 2013 #107
Thats pretty much my impression. HooptieWagon Nov 2013 #160
Thanks. n/t cynatnite Nov 2013 #122
Forget Oliver Stone, The Kentucky Fried Movie knew the score. JVS Nov 2013 #125
Great. So what's the alternative theory? nt nyquil_man Nov 2013 #22
Mere mystery mongering. longship Nov 2013 #31
Oswald was not unusual. heckles65 Nov 2013 #41
welcome to DU gopiscrap Nov 2013 #91
It's not just history, either. nyquil_man Nov 2013 #44
I could not have said it better. nt longship Nov 2013 #61
Theres a whole lot of wrong in your post. HooptieWagon Nov 2013 #43
The timing on the U2 stuff fits perfectly and is not disputed. KurtNYC Nov 2013 #87
I never read the WC report either maindawg Nov 2013 #48
Wrong on the facts, my friend. stopbush Nov 2013 #56
The Warren Commission deaniac21 Nov 2013 #62
as you can CLEARLY see... zappaman Nov 2013 #64
Bush or Don Draper. Hard to tell from that old photo. :) stopbush Nov 2013 #113
Yes: "I believe that Kennedy was murdered for the same reason and by the same people who murdered... villager Nov 2013 #127
America Declassified MFM008 Nov 2013 #65
"a flash and smoke"? zappaman Nov 2013 #67
Is this the guy in the RR signal tower, Lee Bowers? KurtNYC Nov 2013 #104
Yes but, meanit Nov 2013 #108
Albert Schweitzer College & the L'Abri Fellowship MinM Nov 2013 #66
AP story linking Lee Harvey Oswald with Jack Ruby MinM Nov 2013 #256
one fact the lone gunman conspirators wont touch reddread Nov 2013 #76
What about him? zappaman Nov 2013 #80
yeah, you really cant cope with his relationships. reddread Nov 2013 #86
What about him? n/t zappaman Nov 2013 #89
you must be happy to see me reddread Nov 2013 #90
Not sure what you're saying, so maybe you are confused. zappaman Nov 2013 #92
stop toying with him, that's mean. dionysus Nov 2013 #111
That he smelled bad in Zurich? Rex Nov 2013 #191
Wow. A new level of idiocy, even for the JFK CTists. stopbush Nov 2013 #119
you got me reddread Nov 2013 #120
It's no great feat to get you. But truth is more important here at DU than your BS. stopbush Nov 2013 #123
The lone gunman CANNOT be a conspiracy NutmegYankee Nov 2013 #101
a group of people propping a cover story for all their worth is reddread Nov 2013 #106
Move along folks, nothing to see here ... former9thward Nov 2013 #82
OK, I'll bite Retrograde Nov 2013 #114
He has to be driven everywhere or take the bus KurtNYC Nov 2013 #136
He had feet, didn't he? Retrograde Nov 2013 #175
FACT: Policeman ID'd Oswald having a Coke in the lunch room about a minute after the shootings. Octafish Nov 2013 #115
and Victoria Adams and Sandra Stiles use the same set of stairs that Oswald would have KurtNYC Nov 2013 #139
Accidental History:The Girl on the Stairs by Barry Ernest Octafish Nov 2013 #140
Actually 74-90 seconds....so more than a minute. HooptieWagon Nov 2013 #148
That must be why I said ''about'' and said 90 seconds in the post. Picture this... Octafish Nov 2013 #150
Nothing in the diagram excludes him as the shooter. HooptieWagon Nov 2013 #155
Right. The diagram is to show how how far the Warren Commission goes to pin it on Oswald. Octafish Nov 2013 #163
What's so difficult in traversing that distance in a minute and a half? stopbush Nov 2013 #219
Aha! zappaman Nov 2013 #221
And yet another Octafish JFK CT "fact" bites the dust. eom stopbush Nov 2013 #224
Actually no... zappaman Nov 2013 #225
Minsk is not a snowy hellhole. At least not by Soviet standards. JVS Nov 2013 #116
IMO the biggest cause of CTs treestar Nov 2013 #124
This message was self-deleted by its author A-Schwarzenegger Nov 2013 #126
11. There's solid evidence of Oswald being a CIA tool. bluedeathray Nov 2013 #134
Motive: he was a Russian agent. Rex Nov 2013 #138
The Russians wouldn't have him. The Cubans wouldn't have him. The CIA wouldn't have him. duffyduff Nov 2013 #146
Thats pretty much it. HooptieWagon Nov 2013 #149
That sounds like an outrageous conspiracy. Rex Nov 2013 #165
Sure right, that is actually far less believable. Rex Nov 2013 #162
Nobody admits to associating with their agents. JVS Nov 2013 #170
The desperation to push him as a 'lone wolf' looks absurd so many decades later. Rex Nov 2013 #172
Its where all evidence points. HooptieWagon Nov 2013 #176
So where is your mountain of proof? You provide nothing. Rex Nov 2013 #179
What kind of Russian agent gets trained in a toaster factory? HooptieWagon Nov 2013 #151
How do you know that is what they were doing? Rex Nov 2013 #164
I agree Oswalds case is unusual. HooptieWagon Nov 2013 #181
Well you go on and believe what the USSR wanted you to believe. Rex Nov 2013 #232
No case has been more examined and picked over. HooptieWagon Nov 2013 #234
"What American goes to the USSR during the height of the Cold War, comes back like nothing happened" JVS Nov 2013 #168
Yes maybe a double agent. Rex Nov 2013 #169
I agree. When someone performs an assassination, there's little incentive for his... JVS Nov 2013 #173
Theres a tremendous amount of evidence he was a loner and loser. HooptieWagon Nov 2013 #177
None what so ever. None. Rex Nov 2013 #178
Lots of misinformation and falsehoods in that post. duffyduff Nov 2013 #144
If you want to believe that Ruby shot Oswald and spent the rest of his life in prison KurtNYC Nov 2013 #157
For fucks sake, people murder for a lot less reasons. You people.... Logical Nov 2013 #161
Yeah and you people crack me up. Rex Nov 2013 #166
Yeah, John Wilkes Booth didn't do it either. cbdo2007 Nov 2013 #153
LOL, thats how silly the CTists sound. HooptieWagon Nov 2013 #182
While I Can't Completely Disagree... ProfessorGAC Nov 2013 #184
The CTs generally fall into 2 categories... HooptieWagon Nov 2013 #186
Zapruder believed the fatal head shot came from behind him KurtNYC Nov 2013 #193
and he's an expert in what??? cbdo2007 Nov 2013 #249
Did John Wilkes Booth act alone? JVS Nov 2013 #192
Actually, no, but that's a whole different topic Retrograde Nov 2013 #194
He and a handful of conspirators.....yet many believed, and still do, that the leaders of the South cbdo2007 Nov 2013 #250
George DeMohrenschildt was friends with Oswald and Poppy Bush Octafish Nov 2013 #199
How do you know Bush and DeMohrenschildt were friends? zappaman Nov 2013 #202
Bush's name, kids' names, personal info was in De Mohrenschildt's address book. Octafish Nov 2013 #205
George DeMohrenschildt knew the Bouvier family when Jackie Kennedy was a child zappaman Nov 2013 #206
Yeah. Interesting how you find that a source of amusement, zappaman. Octafish Nov 2013 #214
I don't find JFK's assassination or anything about it a "source of amusement" zappaman Nov 2013 #216
And they were such good friends Bush refused to help him. HooptieWagon Nov 2013 #217
Since deM and Bush were both in petroleum business HooptieWagon Nov 2013 #212
Right on Camballo Nov 2013 #207
Does Bugliosi explain why John Connally contradicts the Magic Bullet theory? KurtNYC Nov 2013 #222
Here's what I found regarding the Connally perception v. the single bullet evidence Camballo Nov 2013 #226
I started this thread to talk about why the large majority doubt parts of the WCR KurtNYC Nov 2013 #229
"Any valid theory of the assassination must account for ALL of the evidence" zappaman Nov 2013 #230
Any exception to a theory or hypothesis, disproves the hypothesis. KurtNYC Nov 2013 #241
Oops... Camballo Nov 2013 #238
Actually, Connally was correct in thinking he had been hit by the second bullet fired. stopbush Nov 2013 #245
Wow this proves Springslips Nov 2013 #213
Conspiracy theories: stopbush Nov 2013 #223
Too funny! Rex Nov 2013 #233
Anti-intellectuals Springslips Nov 2013 #263
Nixon to multiple aides on Jack Ruby. roamer65 Nov 2013 #235
Recommended. H2O Man Nov 2013 #243
#2 is pretty funny undeterred Nov 2013 #246
And Oswald never regained consciousness after Ruby shot him. stopbush Nov 2013 #247
"1. No Motive." Oswald was a strange man, with a history of strange behavior. It is unrealistic struggle4progress Nov 2013 #251
Fool me once, maybe, but seven times? Forget it. ucrdem Nov 2013 #252
1 & 2: Aside from Oswald, assassins and attempted assassins of politicians have known motives, KurtNYC Nov 2013 #253
11. Forget the physical evidence. BootinUp Nov 2013 #254
I was 7 in 1963 and Holly_Hobby Nov 2013 #262
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