General Discussion

Gore1FL

(22,956 posts)

149. I disagree.

Fri Nov 15, 2013, 09:16 PM

Nov 2013

We simply build coalitions before the elections rather than afterwards. The ideas can be heard if they work with instead of against the design. Third parties try to ignore the system, rather than leverage it. I like it that way. I have a better notion of what I am voting for when I "pull the lever," rather than being surprised later when platforms change after-the-fact. They simply need to run in the primaries to be heard.

The fundamental truth is that when a majority of votes are required (rather than a plurality) the natural upshot is going to be 2 parties. Even former presidents (Martin Van Buren, Millard Fillmore, and Theodore Roosevelt) failed to win as third-party candidates. We can change the Constitution, or work with it.

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BREAKING : Bernie Sanders [View all] boomerbust Nov 2013 OP

Source? Kelvin Mace Nov 2013 #1

The horse's mouth. Today. On The Thom Hartmann Show. WowSeriously Nov 2013 #87

I was watching Brunch with Bernie when he said it. bvar22 Nov 2013 #115

Well, we can always dream! WowSeriously Nov 2013 #170

I heard him also! fredamae Nov 2013 #251

It would be awesome if he ran as a Democrat WowSeriously Nov 2013 #255

Yes, it would! fredamae Nov 2013 #257

Bernie Sanders on the Thom Hartman Show boomerbust Nov 2013 #2

He should - and then throw his support to the Dem cilla4progress Nov 2013 #3

Can you honestly see Hillary moving left of anything? Le Taz Hot Nov 2013 #27

Nope. Not a chance. Whisp Nov 2013 #45

Absolutely. She's not an ideologue or a populist or she wouldn't be where she is. She is pragmatic libdem4life Nov 2013 #72

Well, I'm glad you like her. Le Taz Hot Nov 2013 #75

I'm on record as not being a fan. But that doesn't mean I'm blind to her position or the abject libdem4life Nov 2013 #84

And I think Hillary's support is a mile wide and an inch deep. Le Taz Hot Nov 2013 #85

Speaking of negatives, bvar22 Nov 2013 #119

Thank you for sharing blue14u Nov 2013 #174

+1000 MissDeeds Nov 2013 #212

Yes, and hopefully blue14u Nov 2013 #264

I feel t he same way. People have had enough of having candidates appointed, over three years sabrina 1 Nov 2013 #249

Yes Sabrina 1.. we do blue14u Nov 2013 #263

Love the video, bvar, thanks! LuvNewcastle Nov 2013 #205

Yep, your last paragraph, especially the first sentence is....... socialist_n_TN Nov 2013 #135

You make good points. But I see that Hillary's poll numbers are consistent and she does fall under libdem4life Nov 2013 #155

Which is all a very long-winded way of saying Le Taz Hot Nov 2013 #179

Sadly, and I truly mean that and it could change, but it seems logical. The candidate needs to raise libdem4life Nov 2013 #183

I'm sure the republicans will appreciate that. NT juajen Nov 2013 #236

+1 KoKo Nov 2013 #223

I really like how you put that. BlancheSplanchnik Nov 2013 #141

Bernie could do what blue14u Nov 2013 #173

She lost the election, did you forget? Progressives went for the person who had not voted sabrina 1 Nov 2013 #177

She lost to Obama, yes. I wasn't as into then as I am now, but neither one of them seemed libdem4life Nov 2013 #178

Hillary makes four right turns and gets back right where she started from before turning left once. Ikonoklast Nov 2013 #211

Sure- like Obama. And then promptly moving to the right of Reagan kenny blankenship Nov 2013 #222

If we want better policy, the Dem should throw his/her support to Bernie. Comrade Grumpy Nov 2013 #28

This! ^^^ enlightenment Nov 2013 #34

Hear, Hear! [n/t] Maedhros Nov 2013 #35

well said! liberal_at_heart Nov 2013 #38

+1 daleanime Nov 2013 #44

Or draft him into the Democratic race... zeemike Nov 2013 #89

Yep. 99Forever Nov 2013 #102

+1 idwiyo Nov 2013 #103

I'll be interested to find out what the DU admins think about this... L0oniX Nov 2013 #116

And then DU will move even farther to the Right in the process. RC Nov 2013 #138

This Board does not interfere with opinions expressed unless the juajen Nov 2013 #237

It is not the owners, it is some of their followers that are the problem here. RC Nov 2013 #254

Why then does Bernie help elect the Right of Center Democrats? brooklynite Nov 2013 #258

Could it be they are reasonably honest and that they have RC Nov 2013 #271

I'll let you put that question to the DU community, and see what kind of reply you get. brooklynite Nov 2013 #272

I already know what kind of replies I would get from some. RC Nov 2013 #273

One's politics can be Democratic in spirit without being a Democrat. I like to think that Sanders is ancianita Nov 2013 #171

Yes. Yes. Yes! 840high Nov 2013 #148

Spot on MissDeeds Nov 2013 #213

Screw that, he should run as Dem if that is the only way for him to get a chance to win. idwiyo Nov 2013 #33

Or he could run as a Democrat. That would make more sense than trying a third party candidacy. n/t totodeinhere Nov 2013 #167

"Move the Dem candidate left" Scootaloo Nov 2013 #189

As for me, I just want one who can win. That's the name of the game. juajen Nov 2013 #240

I've been around long enough to know that a D next to the name is no assurance of quality Scootaloo Nov 2013 #247

NO. dotymed Nov 2013 #224

Good! Greybnk48 Nov 2013 #4

he wouldn't be allowed/invited to any of the debates NightWatcher Nov 2013 #6

Yep. That's the way a corrupt two party system works. It would take a grass roots effort, but hey liberal_at_heart Nov 2013 #9

What qualifies a candidate to be "invited" to debates? Greybnk48 Nov 2013 #11

Bernie is not a democrat. cali Nov 2013 #13

Doesn't he caucus with the Dems? Greybnk48 Nov 2013 #47

Has nothing to do with "they". He declares himself a Democrat or he doesn't stevenleser Nov 2013 #56

General election debates dreamnightwind Nov 2013 #109

I used the word "they" to reference someone Greybnk48 Nov 2013 #217

Dennis Kucinich participated in EVERY debate frazzled Nov 2013 #18

Wasn't he sort of frozen out of the discussion Greybnk48 Nov 2013 #37

I clearly remember dreamnightwind Nov 2013 #110

I will never forgive Potato Head for that assassination. bvar22 Nov 2013 #134

Yes, how about the take-out of Jerry Brown too? dreamnightwind Nov 2013 #147

Yes, he is; and, I would love to see Gavin Newsome nationally! juajen Nov 2013 #239

Meh on Newsome dreamnightwind Nov 2013 #248

This San Franciscan - Hell Hath No Fury Nov 2013 #256

+1 Enthusiast Nov 2013 #199

Yes. Made to look like a crackpot. Greybnk48 Nov 2013 #215

Yep, anything that might threaten the bottom line dreamnightwind Nov 2013 #250

He did not participate in every debate, especially the final Cleita Nov 2013 #81

I love Amy Goodman. She is fantastic. liberal_at_heart Nov 2013 #83

Here's the criteria for the 2012 debates 2naSalit Nov 2013 #66

Dennis was in some debates, but eventually, the field is narrowed. juajen Nov 2013 #238

That's not corruption ... frazzled Nov 2013 #15

then why don't the Independents get a primary debate? Because the two parties have all the power liberal_at_heart Nov 2013 #20

+1000000 woo me with science Nov 2013 #26

shamelessly rigged is right... druidity33 Nov 2013 #79

I hear you. If it turns out the Sen Warren is not corruptible, she will probably get drunk, take rhett o rick Nov 2013 #90

I don't see any advantage to registering I dreamnightwind Nov 2013 #114

They do get a primary debate. jeff47 Nov 2013 #52

There is an Independent Party (far right whacks). enlightenment Nov 2013 #53

yeah, I can see that. We actually have a lot of parties. None of which get any attention because liberal_at_heart Nov 2013 #58

Well, yes. enlightenment Nov 2013 #80

Debate whom? He has decided to not be part of a party stevenleser Nov 2013 #54

Thanks for the dis-information, Steven. truedelphi Nov 2013 #77

It's not about "disenfranchising". Do Republicans get to participate in Democratic primary debates? NYC Liberal Nov 2013 #126

Gee, and here I was thinking it was all about the will of the people. zeemike Nov 2013 #96

We haven't had a legitimate Presidential Debate .... bvar22 Nov 2013 #123

That statement gives me increasing respect for TWV. zeemike Nov 2013 #139

A quote JFk made with remarks as to how in America, people deserve to speak and hear the truth truedelphi Nov 2013 #69

They could have a primary debate. They have conventions. Gore1FL Nov 2013 #73

"the way our system is set up." Exactly. liberal_at_heart Nov 2013 #76

I disagree. Gore1FL Nov 2013 #149

Independents aren't free to debate? You talk as if the American people aren't smart enough to know Tarheel_Dem Nov 2013 #88

The times they are a changing.. blue14u Nov 2013 #180

The times haven't changed that much. Tarheel_Dem Nov 2013 #274

I knew about this rule on DU. blue14u Nov 2013 #277

Nobody's told who to vote for at DU, but you are forbidden to push... Tarheel_Dem Nov 2013 #278

My argument is blue14u Nov 2013 #279

Harass? Need I remind you who responded to whom initially? Refresher: Tarheel_Dem Nov 2013 #280

Tarhell_Dem... again blue14u Nov 2013 #281

"Move On"? Well, I guess that's what you should've done to begin with. Right? Tarheel_Dem Nov 2013 #282

If someone sponsored the debates they could have them frazzled Nov 2013 #172

Not necessarily. If he ran as a third party candidate the threshold would be a totodeinhere Nov 2013 #168

That's nice to drive the debate. But he won't get more than 15% in any primary. scheming daemons Nov 2013 #5

I can't imagine that he would do it for any other reason but to drive the debate. cali Nov 2013 #7

Yep Cali_Democrat Nov 2013 #19

but he has a blizzard's worth when it comes to impacting the race cali Nov 2013 #23

Dennis is all about Dennis Cali_Democrat Nov 2013 #25

I think he should register as a Democrat and participate in all the primary debates. rhett o rick Nov 2013 #244

You seem so certain...As blue14u Nov 2013 #181

there will be probably a half dozen candidates scheming daemons Nov 2013 #185

Are you saying he blue14u Nov 2013 #187

i am saying the electorate, as constituted scheming daemons Nov 2013 #188

AHHH, so its true blue14u Nov 2013 #191

Yes, there will be blue14u Nov 2013 #262

what. the. fuck. multiplied. cali Nov 2013 #246

Excuse me? I checked and rechecked...I see YOU are the one confused.. blue14u Nov 2013 #259

Good. Great! We need a candidate we can vote for rather than another "not as bad" hack. Tierra_y_Libertad Nov 2013 #8

I have been saying for over a year, no more lesser of two evils, go Bernie! A Simple Game Nov 2013 #131

I have been saying for over a year, no more lesser of two evils, go Bernie! A Simple Game Nov 2013 #136

+1000 valerief Nov 2013 #210

He'll get mine as well. LWolf Nov 2013 #220

Excellent. HijackedLabel Nov 2013 #10

Ha! I like that My pragmatism is wearing thin too! n/t Greybnk48 Nov 2013 #14

And my thinmatism is wearing prag! Aldo Leopold Nov 2013 #153

If the media takes a hack like Arianna Huffington seriously, closeupready Nov 2013 #12

He would get my vote. liberal_at_heart Nov 2013 #16

Mine too. Dream ticket for me would be Sanders/Warren (in either order). LoisB Nov 2013 #32

Hear Hear blue14u Nov 2013 #182

And mine :) mother earth Nov 2013 #253

I'd follow Bernie into hell LittleBlue Nov 2013 #17

Ditto. OutNow Nov 2013 #192

How many times can I rec this? R. Daneel Olivaw Nov 2013 #21

I hope he does! And that he can Debate the Candidates! KoKo Nov 2013 #22

not in the democratic debates. he's not a dem cali Nov 2013 #24

Aware of that...but, maybe we can change the system...and he will KoKo Nov 2013 #49

The time is now!!! blue14u Nov 2013 #186

There's a precedent here RufusTFirefly Nov 2013 #120

I don't know how we "outflank them" but maybe Sinclair's Time Has Come! KoKo Nov 2013 #154

BTW, Cali! Remember Joe Lieberman left Dem Party and Ran Indy... KoKo Nov 2013 #158

This message was self-deleted by its author el_bryanto Nov 2013 #29

Oh, look, Le Taz Hot Nov 2013 #43

I'm not making fun of old people el_bryanto Nov 2013 #59

Nice attempt at a save. Le Taz Hot Nov 2013 #64

I deleted it - I guess it was funnier in my head. nt el_bryanto Nov 2013 #71

It's gonna get ugly very fast if Bernie Sanders does run. woo me with science Nov 2013 #92

Anyone, ANYONE challenging Hillary Le Taz Hot Nov 2013 #99

Could not agree with you more. nt woo me with science Nov 2013 #137

Screw the conservative establishment Dems AND the Elephant they rode in on. NorthCarolina Nov 2013 #204

+1 mmonk Nov 2013 #208

lol! 'nasty swipes'... Whisp Nov 2013 #133

They have no problem with age or choice, as long as it's the one they personally approve of! idwiyo Nov 2013 #106

??? Chan790 Nov 2013 #46

It's a slam against the fact Le Taz Hot Nov 2013 #57

No it isn't - but don't let that stop you from alerting it. el_bryanto Nov 2013 #61

Not my style. Le Taz Hot Nov 2013 #67

k&r VERY enthusiastic K&R! idwiyo Nov 2013 #30

Wow! Le Taz Hot Nov 2013 #31

Not if he runs as Dem, and he should, as it's the only way to beat the friggin system. idwiyo Nov 2013 #36

I can't imagine him switching political parties now. Le Taz Hot Nov 2013 #39

Doesn't have to. Chan790 Nov 2013 #55

Well, this is interesting. Le Taz Hot Nov 2013 #62

Yes, he does. Next week, when I am not on an iPad, I'll link to it. stevenleser Nov 2013 #63

Okay. Interesting. I always assumed it was everywhere. Chan790 Nov 2013 #68

This message was self-deleted by its author woo me with science Nov 2013 #86

I hope he does switch. Really hope so. idwiyo Nov 2013 #60

According to post #55 Le Taz Hot Nov 2013 #70

Why by default? blue14u Nov 2013 #190

And I see no reason why he can't. zeemike Nov 2013 #98

And in this case it will be a damn good Dem! idwiyo Nov 2013 #100

wow. nice. Whisp Nov 2013 #40

I love Bernie. If he becomes another Ralph Nader, I won't. n/t lumberjack_jeff Nov 2013 #41

I hope he runs as an independent, with Nader as his VP. Dr. Strange Nov 2013 #42

I would crawl through broken glass to see Bernie Sanders elected. woo me with science Nov 2013 #48

and one may probably be calling him out as a caver Whisp Nov 2013 #51

Oh look. Right on cue. woo me with science Nov 2013 #94

I'm okay with Bernie. Whisp Nov 2013 #107

I sincerely doubt that people who have principles would make excuses if Sanders wins idwiyo Nov 2013 #112

Very well said. woo me with science Nov 2013 #143

THIS^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^... socialist_n_TN Nov 2013 #145

"Okay with Bernie". What does that even mean? cali Nov 2013 #193

It means this: Whisp Nov 2013 #218

+1,000 dreamnightwind Nov 2013 #124

Bernie! sarcasmo Nov 2013 #50

I guess it's official and we can talk about 2016 w/o being told to stfu. n/t Whisp Nov 2013 #65

An eternal optimist, you are. Laelth Nov 2013 #93

Bernie Yes! But it's too bad the Democratic Party has become so Corporate Lame that... Armstead Nov 2013 #74

Well said. Laelth Nov 2013 #95

If people vote for a corporate Dem they will get what they deserve! L0oniX Nov 2013 #122

Unfortunately Corporate Dems talk a good talk but.... Armstead Nov 2013 #157

...and I even went to an Obama campaign rally. L0oniX Nov 2013 #160

^this Marrah_G Nov 2013 #164

On Democratic ticket? Boom Sound 416 Nov 2013 #78

If LWolf Nov 2013 #221

Agreed Boom Sound 416 Nov 2013 #225

Please make it so. ananda Nov 2013 #82

Does anyone have a source for this? nm rhett o rick Nov 2013 #91

If he does, I hope he chooses Elizabeth Warren as his running mate MynameisBlarney Nov 2013 #97

Given the insane House and just marginally better HockeyMom Nov 2013 #101

He's got my vote over ANY other. 99Forever Nov 2013 #104

Bernie is a great, old-time Liberal. One of a very few who mostly don't get much press due to the libdem4life Nov 2013 #105

Really? Completely disagree with your conclusions. - eom dreamnightwind Nov 2013 #128

OK. I'm sure a lot here do. It's all pretty much opinion until it's over anyway. Then, it's a new libdem4life Nov 2013 #156

Right on dreamnightwind Nov 2013 #162

He would have my full support and as many hours of volunteer work as I can manage. Marrah_G Nov 2013 #108

Love it! Go Bernie InAbLuEsTaTe Nov 2013 #111

Bernie! AzDar Nov 2013 #113

Well Robbins Nov 2013 #117

Bernie Sanders has my vote! CountAllVotes Nov 2013 #118

I will throw all my efforts, money his way, Sanders and Warren, what a ticket. Jefferson23 Nov 2013 #121

Sanders and Warren: Wall St.'s worst nightmare!! Initech Nov 2013 #125

That's my dream ticket! NC_Nurse Nov 2013 #130

Great news! raindaddy Nov 2013 #127

K&R mc51tc Nov 2013 #129

Sweet! I really respect that guy. nt Demo_Chris Nov 2013 #132

Please Sir Half-Century Man Nov 2013 #140

Meh. Bernie's "impact" would be similar to this guy..... Tarheel_Dem Nov 2013 #142

I see you're in the Hillary "TPP" Clinton crowd. Earth_First Nov 2013 #161

I support Democrats, and unless the rules have changed, so does DU. Tarheel_Dem Nov 2013 #276

Yep, another fantasy candidate. Beacool Nov 2013 #184

Hillary Clinton provided funding to Bernie Sanders for his Senate run. MADem Nov 2013 #200

I like Sanders, but to think that he could win in a general election Beacool Nov 2013 #226

I concur. MADem Nov 2013 #230

I think that too many people here have no clue about Hillary. Beacool Nov 2013 #231

She will make a superb President--probably the best prepared one we've MADem Nov 2013 #234

We'll see. Beacool Nov 2013 #260

Bernie is nothing like Nader. And he has NO history of "divide and conquer" cali Nov 2013 #194

The asshole who wanted to primary the current president? Oh yeah... Tarheel_Dem Nov 2013 #275

I doubt he expects to win, but he intends to push the national tblue37 Nov 2013 #144

Woo-hoo! K & R. Contact him! dreamnightwind Nov 2013 #146

Message auto-removed Name removed Nov 2013 #150

Interesting! Rosa Luxemburg Nov 2013 #151

Would he run under the Socialist ticket? B Calm Nov 2013 #152

Joe Lieberman ran as an Independent when challenged by Dem Left... KoKo Nov 2013 #159

Bernie would not even be allowed in the debates. Make more sense B Calm Nov 2013 #198

Run Bernie Run RoccoR5955 Nov 2013 #163

He'd have my vote! Oakenshield Nov 2013 #165

This sounds great, but... DissidentVoice Nov 2013 #166

If he runs as a D I'd be interested on knowing more and would consider voting for him davidpdx Nov 2013 #169

Seriously? Beacool Nov 2013 #175

It's not about winning for Bernie. If he runs it's to influence the debate cali Nov 2013 #195

Excellent Point Mostly Orbiting Nov 2013 #197

Yes, but Hillary has a good chance of winning the general election. Beacool Nov 2013 #227

again, this is about influencing the debate and pointing out that Hillary is a corporate cali Nov 2013 #229

Bernie Sanders' message of economic fairness resonates with almost everyone across the political Douglas Carpenter Nov 2013 #196

I think that the Left needs to get a reality check when it comes to 2016. Beacool Nov 2013 #228

The simple reality is - most people do agree with most of what Sen Bernie Sanders has to say Douglas Carpenter Nov 2013 #232

He is not a Democrat. Beacool Nov 2013 #233

not at this time - but he can change that anytime he wants. The context of any of his conversations Douglas Carpenter Nov 2013 #235

Maybe so, but he'll be just as electable in a general election as Cruz. Beacool Nov 2013 #261

I don't know where you get that idea. Across the political spectrum people listen to Bernie Sanders Douglas Carpenter Nov 2013 #265

I'm tired, I'm going to bed. Beacool Nov 2013 #266

I think you need to get away from the world of political true believers and listen to ordinary Douglas Carpenter Nov 2013 #268

I listen to people and I live in a Democratic part of the country. Beacool Nov 2013 #269

I would not support a third party effort as tempting as it may be. Douglas Carpenter Nov 2013 #270

I'm shocked that someone with a Hilary Clinton avatar would say something like this. Vashta Nerada Nov 2013 #242

I'm shocked that anyone would think that Sanders would have a snowball chance in hell Beacool Nov 2013 #267

Bernie would make a great president. avaistheone1 Nov 2013 #176

Now there's a salution to the political society . orpupilofnature57 Nov 2013 #201

Sorry to say, but ann--- Nov 2013 #202

Then we need a good draft movement to begin. mmonk Nov 2013 #203

Bernie will be 75 in Sept 2016. If he runs, it will be a gesture Jackpine Radical Nov 2013 #206

What ticket is he going to run on, anyone know? boston bean Nov 2013 #207

PLEASE NorthCarolina Nov 2013 #209

+ 1 pretty please MissDeeds Nov 2013 #216

Front page article in the Burlington Free Press (Burlington, VT) - on Sanders karynnj Nov 2013 #214

Good News Mosaic Nov 2013 #219

I love Bernie and appreciate this thread but is there a source for the OP? nm rhett o rick Nov 2013 #241

He would be a candidate I would support. Vashta Nerada Nov 2013 #243

I consider President Bernie Sanders to be an awesome thing Rain Mcloud Nov 2013 #245

If he runs, I'm voting for him. lark Nov 2013 #252