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Doctor_J

(36,392 posts)

269. There won't be any long view to take if it's still not working in a year

Sun Nov 17, 2013, 01:01 PM

Nov 2013

the party will get trounced and that will be the beginning of the end.

Letting people renew their junk policies for a year was a bad idea. Granting the corporations a year delay was a bad idea. Deciding on a 3-year roll out was a bad idea (should have been 8 months). Declaring that "the insurers deserve to make profits" was a bad idea. The president decided that his "signature legislation" should be based on a plan from the far right Heritage Foundation, and that taking care of the insurance ghouls was more important than taking care of Americans. He's now reaping what he sowed, and having the party cling to it is going to be damaging.

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This flippant attitude toward those harmed by the ACA will cost us 2014. [View all] last1standing Nov 2013 OP

I guess it will just come down to how many uninsured people are able to get affordable insurance... LAGC Nov 2013 #1

No it won't PhilosopherKing Nov 2013 #2

Yes. Chilling should take care of everything. last1standing Nov 2013 #9

and those millions that have insurance for the first time ever scheming daemons Nov 2013 #21

Not only that, most affected are self-employeed. joshcryer Nov 2013 #30

The enforcedment provision of the ACA has been discussed many times and the fine is so small as to politicaljunkie41910 Nov 2013 #214

Fine/Tax: $95 (or 1% of income) for 2014 and $695 (or 2.5% whichever is greater) for 2016 solarhydrocan Nov 2013 #221

I am aware of that. The ACA allows freeloaders. joshcryer Nov 2013 #271

Where that has occured... Chan790 Nov 2013 #39

I know all lawyers make bazillions each year while feasting on the hearts of children... last1standing Nov 2013 #41

You clearly missed something in the last post so I'll be a bit more clear. Chan790 Nov 2013 #44

The only thing I missed in your post was empathy for others. last1standing Nov 2013 #46

... Chan790 Nov 2013 #51

Go to the Mass Health Connector and look at plans for a couple in their late fifties. Flatulo Nov 2013 #53

People in their late fifties should expect to spend more on treestar Nov 2013 #77

So then you're fine with a family spending 40% of Flatulo Nov 2013 #93

I don't know if your figures are truly correct treestar Nov 2013 #98

You don't know so instead of learning you make up bullshit numbers. last1standing Nov 2013 #105

My numbers are more likely to be true than yours treestar Nov 2013 #111

So you admit your post is bullshit but continue anyway. Nice. last1standing Nov 2013 #115

No I don't treestar Nov 2013 #116

Yes, you did. Try to at least read your own posts if you can't read mine. last1standing Nov 2013 #118

Accusing us of envy is a Rush Limbaugh thing treestar Nov 2013 #121

He admits to envy so there's a talking point for you. last1standing Nov 2013 #165

Finally some common sense. ChazII Nov 2013 #160

Your demographic assumptions are 100% wrong. We're 57 and have a 24 y/o son. He's living with us Flatulo Nov 2013 #131

that sounds pretty miserable treestar Nov 2013 #134

You'd love to have it, but since you don't, then screw me, right? That's what it sounds like to me. Flatulo Nov 2013 #138

Why do you call it screwing you? treestar Nov 2013 #139

Yes, I'm a complete idiot and haven't thought of any of your proposals, and I'm completely Flatulo Nov 2013 #143

I was feeling bad lately treestar Nov 2013 #161

If you can't see that the ACA has some seriously big cracks that hard-working middle class - Flatulo Nov 2013 #163

What to do about it? treestar Nov 2013 #164

What did you pay for insurance prior to ACA? davekriss Nov 2013 #197

Yes you are. You are part of a community Mojorabbit Nov 2013 #188

The ACA is corporate welfare. It isn't about helping people get insurance. duffyduff Nov 2013 #86

No, last1standing ignored your point that the lawyer makes a quarter million a year w4rma Nov 2013 #202

Doubt a choice would be necessary if wealthy Lifelong Dem Nov 2013 #3

With housing prices the way they are, christx30 Nov 2013 #16

Your selfish desire to raise your kids in a safe neighborhood is what's destroying the ACA. last1standing Nov 2013 #42

+1 christx30 Nov 2013 #169

Very true. last1standing Nov 2013 #212

utilitarianism. look it up. and no it won't hurt us. functioning_cog Nov 2013 #4

If you lost your cheap individual insurance plan, and have to buy one 56% more expensive... lumberjack_jeff Nov 2013 #5

3% of the population is roughly 3+ million people Riftaxe Nov 2013 #7

10 times as many people will have insurance for the first time scheming daemons Nov 2013 #15

I would love to believe that Riftaxe Nov 2013 #200

Yep. That's the flippant attitude I was writing about. last1standing Nov 2013 #8

again , 10 times as many people helped. at least. scheming daemons Nov 2013 #17

You don't seem to be able to grasp what this thread is about. last1standing Nov 2013 #35

60 year olds on the individual market geek tragedy Nov 2013 #61

And still don't have decent options. last1standing Nov 2013 #70

What is your proposal? What would YOU do geek tragedy Nov 2013 #73

I would stop spamming this thread with the same questions I've already answered. last1standing Nov 2013 #97

To spill right wing talking points that are BS Lifelong Dem Nov 2013 #99

Not B.S. Don't be lazy - do some homework and check out what insurance is going to cost Flatulo Nov 2013 #141

They make too much for a subsidy Lifelong Dem Nov 2013 #145

Ah, so you think families of four making $78,000 are fucking filthy rich? Gotcha. Flatulo Nov 2013 #147

47,000 people die every year because they can't afford insurance Lifelong Dem Nov 2013 #168

You really don't know what you're talking about unless you've looked at the real numbers. Flatulo Nov 2013 #170

Sounds like something I would see on Faux News Lifelong Dem Nov 2013 #172

Go to the Mass Health Connector website and look at Flatulo Nov 2013 #173

$700 - $1400 Lifelong Dem Nov 2013 #175

Not for a Gold plan like we have now. Try again. Flatulo Nov 2013 #178

That was the Gold plan without putting the age of dependent in Lifelong Dem Nov 2013 #181

Well thanks for verifying that I'm not crazy. Flatulo Nov 2013 #186

Compared to many families, a family of four with $78,000 in income is indeed very wealthy. PlanetaryOrbit Nov 2013 #177

Massachusetts is one of the most expensive places to live. Flatulo Nov 2013 #180

they are already paying questionseverything Nov 2013 #183

Approaching 50% of income for seniors. nt Flatulo Nov 2013 #199

$85K is the median income for a family of four in Massachusetts. Not wealthy, not even close. Flatulo Nov 2013 #263

This thread taught me that lots of people don't understand karadax Nov 2013 #266

I like what I've seen so far. Not cheap, but a lot better than rates I got before. Hoyt Nov 2013 #233

With state and national elections often being decided by less than a few percentage points, yes, Flatulo Nov 2013 #54

We shouldn't be handwringing about that which is unavoidable. lumberjack_jeff Nov 2013 #59

Why are we demanded to have empathy for people with a lot more money treestar Nov 2013 #79

"Far more winners than losers" LMFAO! For-profit health insurance means we're all losers Corruption Inc Nov 2013 #149

Not allowing insurance companies to rip people off is not being flippant. Live and Learn Nov 2013 #6

I agree. Media should focus instead on GOP cruelty in states refusing to expand Medicare. Overseas Nov 2013 #268

My attitude will really be flippant when they send dismantlers to Washington HijackedLabel Nov 2013 #10

I've been singing that song for a while Savannahmann Nov 2013 #11

All I can say is that this isn't MY Democratic party. last1standing Nov 2013 #12

and problems in ACA will be fixed too scheming daemons Nov 2013 #19

You should probably learn what the word means before trying to use it. last1standing Nov 2013 #33

You don't seem to care one ounce of shit geek tragedy Nov 2013 #62

You're the one arguing to let these people fall through the cracks. last1standing Nov 2013 #69

Other than passing the Upton bill, what geek tragedy Nov 2013 #72

The Upton bill is exactly what we don't need. last1standing Nov 2013 #94

I guess they pay the penalty. geek tragedy Nov 2013 #96

You didn't even address what I posted. last1standing Nov 2013 #100

Passing increased subsidies is wishful thinking at this point. geek tragedy Nov 2013 #104

So we let these people suffer needlessly because you call it "wishful thinking." last1standing Nov 2013 #107

Direct your demands at John Boehner then, nt geek tragedy Nov 2013 #108

Absolutely. Some are still clueless the party has been taken over by neoliberals duffyduff Nov 2013 #87

It's another hyped bunch of crap and everyone knows it. Spitfire of ATJ Nov 2013 #13

10 times as many people will have insurance for first time scheming daemons Nov 2013 #14

Well reasonably speaking Savannahmann Nov 2013 #24

State and national elections are routinely being decided by much tighter margins than that. nt Flatulo Nov 2013 #55

I've been trying to sound the alarm for this Le Taz Hot Nov 2013 #18

what plan do you have now? scheming daemons Nov 2013 #20

None. Le Taz Hot Nov 2013 #23

so how does your situation worsen for 2014? scheming daemons Nov 2013 #25

Are you seriously trying to tell me Le Taz Hot Nov 2013 #27

Do absolutely nothing will have you in same boat as 2013 scheming daemons Nov 2013 #31

This is exactly what the OP is about. kiva Nov 2013 #64

If the party walks away from you christx30 Nov 2013 #174

and i am not telling you what your situation is scheming daemons Nov 2013 #32

Why don't you want to pay your last pennies for insurance that doesn't let you see the doctor? last1standing Nov 2013 #38

Pay the 95$ a year already- it's only fair if you ever expect emergency care without paying bettyellen Nov 2013 #75

Because, sunshine, Le Taz Hot Nov 2013 #127

if you truly need to see a doctor, just go. you're lucky that if you get tested and need insurance bettyellen Nov 2013 #226

1-5 to leave this post. nt msanthrope Nov 2013 #167

also... you can get a catastrophic plan for much less than $390/mo scheming daemons Nov 2013 #26

Buh bye. Le Taz Hot Nov 2013 #28

Your suffering doesn't matter with the New Democrat Party's "Majority Outreach" program. last1standing Nov 2013 #34

Thanks for an excellent post. I feel the same way you do. I just can't believe the contortions Flatulo Nov 2013 #22

It is glee, isn't it? last1standing Nov 2013 #40

The hatred here is palpable. I'm actually in awe of the sheer loathing on display here every day. Flatulo Nov 2013 #52

Half the people doing the "loathing" are at least reasonably well off Fumesucker Nov 2013 #56

it's obvious many of the Cadre have no idea what being poor really means. KG Nov 2013 #215

I agree with you newfie11 Nov 2013 #48

Well said! nt Mojorabbit Nov 2013 #189

+100 for your common sense ChazII Nov 2013 #216

Those flippant about those harmed by single payer... joshcryer Nov 2013 #29

Stop spouting garbage eridani Nov 2013 #45

Do you also worry about people being flippant towards the 1%? Democat Nov 2013 #36

Did you bother to read past the title of the OP? I'm guessing not based on your post. last1standing Nov 2013 #37

define 'better' quadrature Nov 2013 #47

Yes, the 1% has lots to complain about treestar Nov 2013 #84

It's 100% of people still buying for-profit insurance, not 3% Corruption Inc Nov 2013 #150

k/r well said solarhydrocan Nov 2013 #43

Exactly what I've been thinking newfie11 Nov 2013 #50

You are a hypocrite. Drunken Irishman Nov 2013 #49

This is an over the top rude post. You are the one with the ugly tone in this post. Mojorabbit Nov 2013 #190

Cry me a river. Drunken Irishman Nov 2013 #192

They count but so do the ones who are being surprised by rates they will have trouble Mojorabbit Nov 2013 #198

And you lack the ability to act like a human being. last1standing Nov 2013 #209

AFAICT... sendero Nov 2013 #57

Have a friend who has flipped to the dark side over this elfin Nov 2013 #58

she is an asshole, wasn't voting Dem anyway. No great loss there. bettyellen Nov 2013 #65

Dishonest post. It is not 55-62 year olds who geek tragedy Nov 2013 #60

Dishonest is not acknowledging that some people won't be able to afford this plan as it stands. last1standing Nov 2013 #67

No, I 'm saying that the loss of overpriced geek tragedy Nov 2013 #71

Then you're ignoring the point of the thread to spew propaganda. last1standing Nov 2013 #78

So you do support the Upton bill? nt geek tragedy Nov 2013 #91

How many times are you going to spam this thread with that false statement? last1standing Nov 2013 #95

Agree, I know a 63 year old who is going to get a MUCH better deal because of the ACA Rstrstx Nov 2013 #102

'14 will be liberals' and progressives' fault, no matter what if we lose n/t TransitJohn Nov 2013 #63

Exactly right. We're the unfortunate Cassandra's in this tragedy. last1standing Nov 2013 #76

So what you're saying is that the vast majority of people who will benefit from ChisolmTrailDem Nov 2013 #66

Yeah, because Dems have been winning election with such staggering, stupendous margins that Flatulo Nov 2013 #151

You've missed some vital blocs Prism Nov 2013 #68

+1 leftstreet Nov 2013 #82

Agreed. I've argued those points since this plan was proposed. last1standing Nov 2013 #85

And we knew that response was coming Prism Nov 2013 #109

Au contraire, mon ami. If we lose in 20014 and/or 2016, QC Nov 2013 #136

Who is harmed by it? treestar Nov 2013 #74

Well, if you say so then I certainly can't argue with that. last1standing Nov 2013 #80

I would expect them to be Republicans in any event treestar Nov 2013 #83

One thing for sure, if they weren't republicans before, attitudes like yours will fix that. last1standing Nov 2013 #88

No, I don't think people with those attitudes were ever Democrats treestar Nov 2013 #101

I'm asking for empathy for them, not sympathy. Maybe you should learn the difference. last1standing Nov 2013 #103

Huh? Really? treestar Nov 2013 #114

Yes, and soon, too. Flatulo Nov 2013 #146

and those living from paycheck to paycheck Niceguy1 Nov 2013 #217

No one ProSense Nov 2013 #81

They have to come up with a hardship clause fadedrose Nov 2013 #89

Exactly. We need a hardship clause and due process review. last1standing Nov 2013 #112

There is one. I think people should become familiar with the law. n/t ProSense Nov 2013 #122

Since you've stated there is a hardship clause and due process review, please post the statute. last1standing Nov 2013 #123

I mean a new clause fadedrose Nov 2013 #137

There are hardship exemptions ProSense Nov 2013 #119

That doesn't cover those who are just making ends meet till the law forces them to default. last1standing Nov 2013 #125

What are you talking about? ProSense Nov 2013 #184

Those exemptions are so that the individual does not get fined if not insured. Lars39 Nov 2013 #128

Can they afford insurance now? ProSense Nov 2013 #185

Refusal to see that there are people who have fallen thru the cracks *will not fix the problems.* Lars39 Nov 2013 #187

Neither ProSense Nov 2013 #191

Who said these people don't want to buy decent insurance? Lars39 Nov 2013 #194

so is that the plan for us 50-65 yr olds? questionseverything Nov 2013 #182

It's $95 (or 1% of income) for 2014 and $695 (or 2.5% whichever is greater) for 2016 solarhydrocan Nov 2013 #193

Sounds suspiciously like the republican plan, doesn't it? last1standing Nov 2013 #210

I agree, you should be allowed to go back to the prior arrangement. Warren Stupidity Nov 2013 #223

You're right, and several on here are demonstrating it. BKH70041 Nov 2013 #90

The Republicans will be responsible for nearly all such cases. gulliver Nov 2013 #92

You are right Rstrstx Nov 2013 #120

More like "frightened that someone else might actually get something" TBF Nov 2013 #106

What a load of smug bullshit you've posted. last1standing Nov 2013 #110

48 million uninsured in this country & you are only thinking of yourself. TBF Nov 2013 #113

LOL! You purposely ignore the fact that a minority of middle aged people will get fucked by ACA... last1standing Nov 2013 #117

I don't care what YOUR personal situation is - TBF Nov 2013 #124

No, you only care about YOUR agenda. Who needs empathy, when you have an agenda? last1standing Nov 2013 #130

48 million uninsured - 48 MILLION TBF Nov 2013 #154

So I should have empathy for people who have no empathy for others? dogman Nov 2013 #126

Yes, you should. But there's no proof that they don't have empathy for others. last1standing Nov 2013 #133

Life dogman Nov 2013 #148

As I point out in the OP, not everyone has a little extra to pay. last1standing Nov 2013 #155

$95 fine dogman Nov 2013 #157

Sorry, I thought you had a serious point to make instead of trying to push an agenda. last1standing Nov 2013 #159

Some agenda dogman Nov 2013 #162

So your complaint is that you can't afford $95 to not be insured? Warren Stupidity Nov 2013 #224

Warren, this has been a very long and convoluted thread, but the gist is that middle class seniors Flatulo Nov 2013 #236

If you're in Mass, aren't you actually complaining about Romney care? ucrdem Nov 2013 #239

We're in the seventh year of Romneycare, and for the first three or four years, we saw double-digit Flatulo Nov 2013 #243

So you've been bearing this terrible burden for 7 years? ucrdem Nov 2013 #245

No. We get our insurance from my wife's employer. They contribute $600, she $900. Flatulo Nov 2013 #247

It will go county by county Yo_Mama Nov 2013 #129

People harping about thier non-problems from ACA are the problem Taitertots Nov 2013 #132

Have you looked at actual numbers for middle class 55+ folks who make just enough to not Flatulo Nov 2013 #166

I don't think the ACA issues will hurt Democrats in 2014 AndyA Nov 2013 #135

I am not denying it could have been avoided DonCoquixote Nov 2013 #140

Yes, many who are complaining are merely plants. But some have real problems. last1standing Nov 2013 #158

I agree about the fix DonCoquixote Nov 2013 #228

Yeah, it does appear the Clintons are sell Obama down the river. last1standing Nov 2013 #254

stick your head in the clouds, last1standing! Skittles Nov 2013 #142

People don't care how bad their plans were. Cannikin Nov 2013 #144

That "group of citizens afraid that Reagan was right" ucrdem Nov 2013 #152

Harmed? It's not even out yet! Warpy Nov 2013 #153

If you think that the ACA results in overpriced plans for seniors now, wait until the real costs Flatulo Nov 2013 #156

I agree but have given up saying anything about it here on DU. The ACA is the only sacred cow on DU liberal_at_heart Nov 2013 #171

WTF?? No one at all is saying it is perfect. Obama has tweaked it twice now by executive order. RBInMaine Nov 2013 #179

to fix anything first we have questionseverything Nov 2013 #270

I don't think many are being "flippant". Here is something you must remember: RBInMaine Nov 2013 #176

Extending the junk plans is not a good idea. last1standing Nov 2013 #208

This is another area that may need to be tweaked, but in the short term I do think the extension was RBInMaine Nov 2013 #237

The problem is there's not a great deal that can be done without congress. last1standing Nov 2013 #250

He by no means "lied" but also should have been clearer with regard to the individual plans. Also, I RBInMaine Nov 2013 #260

There won't be any long view to take if it's still not working in a year Doctor_J Nov 2013 #269

I don't see a flippant attitude. What I DO see if a bunch of lies. Th1onein Nov 2013 #195

Please see post #181. This person didn't believe the numbers until I sent him/her to the Mass Flatulo Nov 2013 #205

Sorry, I can't see that post. I'm ignoring that person. Th1onein Nov 2013 #255

OK, go to the Mass Health Connector site and input the following info Flatulo Nov 2013 #261

says who? spanone Nov 2013 #196

Hide your head in the sand and see what that gets you. last1standing Nov 2013 #213

Bwahahahahahahah.... 99Forever Nov 2013 #201

Nice response. The OP is right - middle-class seniors who make just over the threshold for Flatulo Nov 2013 #204

Oh please... 99Forever Nov 2013 #206

Then check the numbers like others have done. You're all talk and everyone can see your bullshit. Flatulo Nov 2013 #229

Your claims, you provide verifiable documentation. 99Forever Nov 2013 #231

You have to go to the Mass Health Connector website yourself and input the data. Use a 57 y/o Flatulo Nov 2013 #232

What tittilates you would make a real Democrat sick. last1standing Nov 2013 #211

"Real Democrat"??? 99Forever Nov 2013 #220

You won't get anywhere with that one. He's a major asshole and blowhard around here. Flatulo Nov 2013 #230

You're right, I AM a major asshole... 99Forever Nov 2013 #234

So how are you doing on verifying that what I posted is true? Other posters have gone and Flatulo Nov 2013 #235

Romneycare was up before ACA so ACA isn't really the problem, is it? ucrdem Nov 2013 #242

Romneycare has been essentially repealed, and what we have is now 100% ACA compliant. Flatulo Nov 2013 #244

Which you'd have with or without ACA. So ACA isn't the problem, is it? ucrdem Nov 2013 #246

This coverage crack will be hitting all 50 states, not just Massachusetts. The point of the OP is Flatulo Nov 2013 #248

Okay, but where's the hue and cry from these alleged MA seniors? ucrdem Nov 2013 #249

I would like to be able to buy an ACA plan that is as good as my wife's coverage (which is an HMO), Flatulo Nov 2013 #251

looks like we`ll lose the house again and the senate madrchsod Nov 2013 #203

We will if DU is any measure of the Democratic response. last1standing Nov 2013 #207

People currently in medically-underwritten plans will pay much more, will not get better coverage Dems to Win Nov 2013 #218

So how do you think it should work? Back to the system where everyone with a Warren Stupidity Nov 2013 #225

I prefer Single Payer, Medicare for All. Or at least a public option. Dems to Win Nov 2013 #227

The ACA *does* price out people with pre-existing conditions. They're called 'seniors'. Flatulo Nov 2013 #240

Romney care has been in effect for several years, right? So you've already crossed this bridge. ucrdem Nov 2013 #241

one salary really does not cover a family of three these days. hasn't for a while. bettyellen Nov 2013 #267

OP Hyperbole. Coyotl Nov 2013 #219

I am a member MelissainKC Nov 2013 #222

Congrats on having hundreds of dollars extra in monthly income to spend. last1standing Nov 2013 #252

May I inquire what you are paying for a family plan? And what percentage of your after-tax income Flatulo Nov 2013 #253

most of the fan club is more worried about protecting the president than Doctor_J Nov 2013 #238

No, ProSense Nov 2013 #258

Huge K&R! Besides the small devoted hard core fan club, who think the ACA is quinnox Nov 2013 #256

"it is a good sign to see Democrats like Bill Clinton sounding the wake-up call" ProSense Nov 2013 #257

the midterm elections are ONE YEAR AWAY! napkinz Nov 2013 #259

My two cents about "shitty" coverage. meaculpa2011 Nov 2013 #262

This message was self-deleted by its author 99Forever Nov 2013 #264

I'm old so refresh... meaculpa2011 Nov 2013 #265