General Discussion

adirondacker

(2,921 posts)

515. I think a lot of it, is a matter of perspective...

Mon Nov 18, 2013, 11:29 PM

Nov 2013

I'm too wiped out now to observe statistical methods, but I'll try and delve into it tomorrow. My "gut feeling" is saying that the political compass analysis is more accurate.

I admire your persistence, thoroughness, and legitimacy MADem, and I know you are a smart woman. I also know you're aware of how stats are frequently manipulated, especially in the political realm.

On a side note, a best friend is committed to Hillary. He likes her and thinks she's tough, savvy and smart. He was disappointed when she lost to Obama (who I was cheer leading at the time).

I'll also admit to liking Nader, who lived a mere 2 miles from a former residence. His heart is in the right place and someone needed to open the dialogue for the "hardcore" Liberals. I doubt he'll ever run again, but I'm sure he's open to a debate or discussion. I think Sanders has filled the void and will run through the primary debates and drop his support to another Dem (more than likely Hillary).

May the candidate with the least corporate sponsors win!
Cheers!

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How come Hillary supporters can't present an argument for her? [View all] cali Nov 2013 OP

Why should a progressive support Hillary in the primaries when she's not progressive? Cali_Democrat Nov 2013 #1

There are a lot of progressives in the base cali Nov 2013 #2

Yes, I know she needs the base, but you didn't answer my question Cali_Democrat Nov 2013 #9

I THINK that is sort of what CALI said.. pangaia Nov 2013 #92

I assumed that Cali Democrat is agreeing with Cali. Jackpine Radical Nov 2013 #125

Confused.. boy that's the right word for me, too. pangaia Nov 2013 #129

Funny you should say that... VanillaRhapsody Nov 2013 #19

Nope. I only stated my opinion Cali_Democrat Nov 2013 #40

Right and we know about those... VanillaRhapsody Nov 2013 #148

And then there's the Progressive Policy Institute. Jackpine Radical Nov 2013 #131

Hillary used it to identify herself before you did... VanillaRhapsody Nov 2013 #152

There's also a formal Progressive Caucus, and Bernie Sanders is the only Senatorial Member. libdem4life Nov 2013 #367

So no other Senators but Sanders... VanillaRhapsody Nov 2013 #395

Read it and weep... libdem4life Nov 2013 #406

Why would I weep...i vote Democrat...if Bernie gets it...I vote for him VanillaRhapsody Nov 2013 #408

Because of the total absence of any Progressive Democratic Senators to actually predictably vote libdem4life Nov 2013 #418

^^^^ EXACTLY.... VanillaRhapsody Nov 2013 #422

funny how you quote a right wing article DonCoquixote Nov 2013 #182

I was merely looking for that quote... VanillaRhapsody Nov 2013 #206

and nowhere else had that quote? DonCoquixote Nov 2013 #222

It was just the first one I found....that is all.. VanillaRhapsody Nov 2013 #223

well DonCoquixote Nov 2013 #227

Yeah right...sure... VanillaRhapsody Nov 2013 #233

Well, you apparently read a lot of BS into her quote Android3.14 Nov 2013 #278

You apparently read alot of BS into things that pop into your VanillaRhapsody Nov 2013 #298

A "modern" progressive? pscot Nov 2013 #274

You do know that traditionally Democrats haven't been opposed to rich people right? VanillaRhapsody Nov 2013 #318

It's not people with money pscot Nov 2013 #342

A 'new democrat', means the same thing, a 'democrat who is tight with the bankers'. sabrina 1 Nov 2013 #579

Weasel words...she didn't say she considered herself a "Progressive." Atman Nov 2013 #314

Weasel my butt....she used that word before YOU did! VanillaRhapsody Nov 2013 #393

I'm sorry, I don't get what in meant by your response Atman Nov 2013 #456

Progressive vs Liberal. VanillaRhapsody Nov 2013 #474

Still baffled...WTF are you talking about? Atman Nov 2013 #511

Your source is right wing AgingAmerican Nov 2013 #369

Good point. But then why is she being promoted here? The OP is asking why wont those rhett o rick Nov 2013 #451

I see much more promotion of Warren on DU than I see promotion of Hillary. nm Cali_Democrat Nov 2013 #464

So do I but that's not an answer. Why wont HRC supporters discuss issues? nm rhett o rick Nov 2013 #467

I see a lot of people discussing issues Cali_Democrat Nov 2013 #473

The conservatives that support HRC would like nothing better than for the left to relax rhett o rick Nov 2013 #476

I think you've created some fictitious battle that only exists in your mind Cali_Democrat Nov 2013 #486

OPs supporting Hillary get posted, and then blasted, on a regular basis. JoePhilly Nov 2013 #3

links, please. cali Nov 2013 #5

Here ... JoePhilly Nov 2013 #12

Um, thank you for supporting cali's point. You linked OP is about Hillary's inevitability. magical thyme Nov 2013 #22

Read the article in that OP. JoePhilly Nov 2013 #31

Less pure? Enthusiast Nov 2013 #90

Well said. Laelth Nov 2013 #258

+ a bunch. bvar22 Nov 2013 #297

if you'd asked me who against Hillary back in '05 magical thyme Nov 2013 #94

some people were big on Obama in 2004 hfojvt Nov 2013 #176

Your last statement is possibly true, and I suspect it is the reason magical thyme Nov 2013 #229

I think Richardson spoke before her at the debate hfojvt Nov 2013 #290

Your last sentence, if true, says something terrible about this country. It makes it clear that we sabrina 1 Nov 2013 #378

+1,000,000 dreamnightwind Nov 2013 #519

'... make accepting corporate contributions poison in the eyes of the electorate.' sabrina 1 Nov 2013 #563

Thanks dreamnightwind Nov 2013 #571

Much of DU thinks the fight is with *right-wing policy*. Marr Nov 2013 #106

+8,749 Scuba Nov 2013 #150

Well said, Marr. n/t Laelth Nov 2013 #172

^^This^^ truebluegreen Nov 2013 #204

Finding better viable candidates fredamae Nov 2013 #164

Indeed. That's why I am working on convincing Elizabeth Warren to run. Laelth Nov 2013 #284

Good post dreamnightwind Nov 2013 #520

I can't disagree fredamae Nov 2013 #552

Programmers will tell you that the way to get a large complicated program to work right eridani Nov 2013 #521

No, the real struggle is with the good cop/bad cop dynamics. zeemike Nov 2013 #196

exactly zeemike.. We've been in a Class War for a long time 2banon Nov 2013 #255

less pure? how about less right-wing? oh, and did you read the article at your link? magical thyme Nov 2013 #241

Imagine that. Boggles the mind. That's too hard...easier to bitch and moan. That or think maybe libdem4life Nov 2013 #425

The conservatives call feeding America's children, getting the NSA back to rhett o rick Nov 2013 #458

Frankly, I could care less about Republican purity. You make my point in your next sentence. libdem4life Nov 2013 #504

I think I might have misunderstood your #425 response. I am still confused as rhett o rick Nov 2013 #507

Assuming that is code for Hillary=royal screw job. What I have said dozens of times is... libdem4life Nov 2013 #509

Thanks for understand my frustrations and forgiving my random lashing out. rhett o rick Nov 2013 #514

I'm a 60s radical and, to be very honest, found myself much like you. Think McGovern. I understand. libdem4life Nov 2013 #518

You take me back with that post. nm rhett o rick Nov 2013 #573

She should be supported because she's the front runner? hootinholler Nov 2013 #26

Read the article in the OP. JoePhilly Nov 2013 #38

This is just another petulant strawman post, to go with the other "Hillary Sux" one. MADem Nov 2013 #86

The problems that Obama is having now... Blanks Nov 2013 #169

I agree with many of the points you made. MADem Nov 2013 #205

The candidates have to start getting ready early. That doesn't mean that we have to be enthused. Blanks Nov 2013 #438

Give it time.... nt MADem Nov 2013 #469

^^ Little Star Nov 2013 #340

Maybe you should read entire article in the OP? Because I just did. ieoeja Nov 2013 #277

Hear, hear!!! Beacool Nov 2013 #281

I just did that hootinholler Nov 2013 #468

Your link helps prove what the OP claims. Clinton supporters will not post what rhett o rick Nov 2013 #64

Read the article in that OP. JoePhilly Nov 2013 #71

Yes, I read it. I couldnt find any issues that she supports referred to. It must be me. rhett o rick Nov 2013 #85

I don't post in pro-Hillary threads fadedrose Nov 2013 #11

They don't need to. She's inevitable, cali. LuvNewcastle Nov 2013 #4

You are right. Hillary Clinton could be the next Mitt Romney. DetlefK Nov 2013 #6

I'm not sure about that leftynyc Nov 2013 #18

he was nominated because the crazy vote was split 6 ways of Sunday. magical thyme Nov 2013 #27

The Republicans blew it with Romney.... Spitfire of ATJ Nov 2013 #120

Primaries? We're having primaries already? 2013... TreasonousBastard Nov 2013 #7

Right because YOU are the only ones NOT in a cult right? VanillaRhapsody Nov 2013 #14

Baloney. I have a long list of dems I support cali Nov 2013 #16

Who is running against Hillary? VanillaRhapsody Nov 2013 #37

We don't know yet- beyond Martin O'Malley cali Nov 2013 #48

Oh I am a big fan of Martin O'Malley....He will make a great VP pick for Hillary VanillaRhapsody Nov 2013 #185

I have not heard of this 'quashing' that Hillary is working hard for AgingAmerican Nov 2013 #380

Well no one... TommyCelt Nov 2013 #178

"Hate almost every Democrat"? There are those... TreasonousBastard Nov 2013 #34

No one is demanding anything....she just IS....she has VanillaRhapsody Nov 2013 #42

A lot of the "support" is quite demanding, but... TreasonousBastard Nov 2013 #65

There is no demand....she has worked for it. VanillaRhapsody Nov 2013 #74

Hillalry C. approval numbers DROP! (10/31/13) Divernan Nov 2013 #163

76 whole percent? Well that changes EVERYTHING! VanillaRhapsody Nov 2013 #168

Clinton's campaign song: Let's Do the Time Warp Again! Divernan Nov 2013 #192

You demand I don't post history....and then you post historical musicals? VanillaRhapsody Nov 2013 #197

STOP distorting posts. No one ever demanded you stop posting "history"! Divernan Nov 2013 #210

You were the one that demanded I don't use history... VanillaRhapsody Nov 2013 #214

All I posted about was your false claims on approval numbers; you are SO confused. Divernan Nov 2013 #217

false claims? Really? Think again... VanillaRhapsody Nov 2013 #220

That's not in post 42, sweetie! Fail! Divernan Nov 2013 #224

WTF are you talking about? VanillaRhapsody Nov 2013 #230

And just wait until the election zeemike Nov 2013 #231

Yup. I googled "Bill Clinton girl friend" & got this overview from 2008. Divernan Nov 2013 #251

No one will give a shit. They'll say "So what does that have to do with her?" or MADem Nov 2013 #379

You mean you won't give a shit. zeemike Nov 2013 #459

Oh please--that's just not operative. MADem Nov 2013 #466

Yes daddy except for the ones that are fed up with the same old same o. zeemike Nov 2013 #496

And you're gonna change the world by yelling at me on the internet. MADem Nov 2013 #501

Yelling at you on the internet? zeemike Nov 2013 #510

I agree. Take care, now. nt MADem Nov 2013 #513

" the rest of us are bored with it all." You are speaking for yourself. Now is the time to start a rhett o rick Nov 2013 #80

You're ignoring the other half of that equation... TreasonousBastard Nov 2013 #112

Yes the conservatives can gloat but we arent going to give up. At some point the public rhett o rick Nov 2013 #446

You could have left it at just "...a better candidate than Christie." We... TreasonousBastard Nov 2013 #489

It is not a cult. Beacool Nov 2013 #257

She may be, or not, but... TreasonousBastard Nov 2013 #348

If you notice, the Clinton supporters are not the ones posting threads attacking other Democrats. Beacool Nov 2013 #360

Truth is, I hadn't noticed, but... TreasonousBastard Nov 2013 #370

Right. NAFTA, TPP, kicking kids off "welfare", financial deregulation, eridani Nov 2013 #524

With no idealism or goals expressed fadedrose Nov 2013 #8

Baloney...or is she going to buck the Democratic Jobs trend... VanillaRhapsody Nov 2013 #43

I guess you were looking for a spot to put in that fancy chart fadedrose Nov 2013 #58

oh it disturbs your sensibilities does it? VanillaRhapsody Nov 2013 #181

It is garish fadedrose Nov 2013 #190

TOUGH! VanillaRhapsody Nov 2013 #195

Excuse me. I did NOT ask for any charts fadedrose Nov 2013 #198

I didn't ask for your approval either did I? VanillaRhapsody Nov 2013 #201

For Pete's* sake I hope Hillary has better spokespeople than you bobduca Nov 2013 #558

One Stop Shopping... VanillaRhapsody Nov 2013 #10

bwhahahahahaha. cali Nov 2013 #17

Glad you like VanillaRhapsody Nov 2013 #24

can't stop lauging over someone posting a wiki page as cali Nov 2013 #29

You are welcome to contribute if you have suggestions .... VanillaRhapsody Nov 2013 #32

Oh, please. I post tons of links and you know it. cali Nov 2013 #41

damn near every Democrat to you is a Corporatist.. VanillaRhapsody Nov 2013 #47

Hillary is so far more enmeshed in and a promoter of corporate interests cali Nov 2013 #54

No its not ridiculous....first we were "idolizing" Obama...now Hillary? VanillaRhapsody Nov 2013 #61

That's the new schtick, Vanilla. 11 Bravo Nov 2013 #118

Totally agreed... VanillaRhapsody Nov 2013 #191

Most Democrats aren't key architects of a massive corporate coup d'�tat. NuclearDem Nov 2013 #98

Most Democrats create jobs....Do you think Hillary won't be a Job Creator? VanillaRhapsody Nov 2013 #105

This message was self-deleted by its author NuclearDem Nov 2013 #115

Will she or won't she buck the Democratic Jobs trend? VanillaRhapsody Nov 2013 #140

Quality. Of. Jobs. NuclearDem Nov 2013 #149

We are looking back all the way to Eisenhower now... VanillaRhapsody Nov 2013 #157

Thanks for the word salad. NuclearDem Nov 2013 #167

Sorry I was quite clear. VanillaRhapsody Nov 2013 #175

Is that all you really have? NuclearDem Nov 2013 #177

There are others...I am focusing on that at the moment... VanillaRhapsody Nov 2013 #200

Do you realize BainsBane Nov 2013 #436

I'm not trying to blame her entirely, but if we put her in the WH it'll be hers too. NuclearDem Nov 2013 #437

If we put anyone else in BainsBane Nov 2013 #442

Yay. Hillary will create jobs in... fracking- which she supports cali Nov 2013 #132

Very few jobs in that....even under the worst of conditions... VanillaRhapsody Nov 2013 #143

Do yuo support fracking? do you support the XL pipeline? do you support the TPP? cali Nov 2013 #159

Do I support Democrats on a Democratic forum? VanillaRhapsody Nov 2013 #165

how about actually answering the specific questions I posed? cali Nov 2013 #232

I am not running for President are you? VanillaRhapsody Nov 2013 #235

Oh God, it's the anarchism subthread all over again. NuclearDem Nov 2013 #252

No they don't like me to point out their hypocrisy.... VanillaRhapsody Nov 2013 #256

No, that's not what's happening here at all. NuclearDem Nov 2013 #266

Spoken by someone who "knows" VanillaRhapsody Nov 2013 #300

No, not �ber hip. Just prefer to have an actual back and forth. NuclearDem Nov 2013 #315

NO that is NOT what the "uber-hip" want... VanillaRhapsody Nov 2013 #326

good grief. hypocrisy? Look in the mirror- and at your own posts cali Nov 2013 #267

hahahahahaahahah MINE? I post supporting the Democratic President VanillaRhapsody Nov 2013 #311

who supports anarchy? silly strawman. cali Nov 2013 #319

where have you been around here? Under a rock??? VanillaRhapsody Nov 2013 #321

People like the idea of anarchism because of what it ultimately stands for. NuclearDem Nov 2013 #363

What it means by any dictionary definition is Chaos...I have shown every VanillaRhapsody Nov 2013 #396

Now you're just intentionally egging me on. NuclearDem Nov 2013 #397

I think YOU should do some research myself...I don't make up definitions... VanillaRhapsody Nov 2013 #426

Alright, we're done here. Welcome to ignore. NuclearDem Nov 2013 #428

Oh my fee fee's are sooooo hurt! VanillaRhapsody Nov 2013 #432

Typical MO for that poster, unfortunately. cyberswede Nov 2013 #439

Me? VanillaRhapsody Nov 2013 #472

Good God, for the hundredth time, state collapse anarchy is NOT anarchism! NuclearDem Nov 2013 #320

for the 100th time...Anarchy IS Chaos! VanillaRhapsody Nov 2013 #322

Anarchy is not anarchism. NuclearDem Nov 2013 #356

HOW? That SOME parsing you got going for ya... VanillaRhapsody Nov 2013 #398

and here is another.... VanillaRhapsody Nov 2013 #399

That still doesn't prove that it's chaos. NuclearDem Nov 2013 #400

YES it does....by ANY definition... VanillaRhapsody Nov 2013 #402

No, it doesn't, by several definitions. NuclearDem Nov 2013 #405

Yes it IS by EVERY respected dictionary. VanillaRhapsody Nov 2013 #407

No. NuclearDem Nov 2013 #410

YES you do not get to decide the meaning....it is MOST certainly not Colloquialism. VanillaRhapsody Nov 2013 #414

Again with the conflation. NuclearDem Nov 2013 #421

Not conflated...just giving you what the definition of the word is... VanillaRhapsody Nov 2013 #424

Yes, you are conflating. Anarchism is not anarchy. NuclearDem Nov 2013 #427

Yes it is....I gave you the definition of Anarchism too VanillaRhapsody Nov 2013 #429

Is that some veiled threat? VanillaRhapsody Nov 2013 #403

well, that's silly. cali Nov 2013 #265

Answer WHAT? VanillaRhapsody Nov 2013 #324

Just FYI, persisting in dodging questions like that is every bit as clear as answering "yes", and Marr Nov 2013 #420

So if Christie Creams changed parties, you would support him? rhett o rick Nov 2013 #465

this is the best witty retort you can come up with? VanillaRhapsody Nov 2013 #477

Wont answer will you? I take that for a yes. rhett o rick Nov 2013 #481

Some freaky weird hypothetical? VanillaRhapsody Nov 2013 #484

Ask her former constituents that are also former IBM employees thanks to her "progressivism". Egalitarian Thug Nov 2013 #568

You think she is the ONLY one that has ever done that? VanillaRhapsody Nov 2013 #572

No I don't think that and I will not ever vote for any of the others, either. Egalitarian Thug Nov 2013 #576

+ 1,000 cali Nov 2013 #107

Do Democrats create jobs for Americans under your so-called "corporate coup d' etat"? VanillaRhapsody Nov 2013 #161

Slave wage jobs, yes. NuclearDem Nov 2013 #184

So all jobs created since when are slave wage jobs? VanillaRhapsody Nov 2013 #186

It's a bipartisan problem, so what? Doesn't help your point any. NuclearDem Nov 2013 #188

No its NOT bipartisan... VanillaRhapsody Nov 2013 #211

Better than posting rightwing sources as a reason to NOT vote for her, n'est pas? nt MADem Nov 2013 #91

OUCH! That'll leave a mark! VanillaRhapsody Nov 2013 #187

I post left wing sources on why she's a bad candidate for the 99% cali Nov 2013 #234

Yeah, those progressive sites like Ben Smith and UPI....Ohhhh kay.... nt MADem Nov 2013 #236

UPI? seriously? cali Nov 2013 #280

And she opposes changes to Roe V Wade..and Universal Single Payer VanillaRhapsody Nov 2013 #327

Oh here you go.... VanillaRhapsody Nov 2013 #331

say what about Hillary and Universal Single Payer cali Nov 2013 #343

Fact: You used UPI as a source, and Ben Smith, in the same damn post. MADem Nov 2013 #344

I wish I had your crystal ball. Laelth Nov 2013 #525

Illness will be the only thing that could hold her back. MADem Nov 2013 #574

Have you actually read that? snooper2 Nov 2013 #104

Her turn! Ready! Experienced! Inevitable! n2doc Nov 2013 #13

The Progressive Party ended in 1952. All there is now is corporate party 1 & 2. L0oniX Nov 2013 #110

Says who? She called herself one before you called yourself one! VanillaRhapsody Nov 2013 #337

Don't you get it? Politics = Team sports Proud Public Servant Nov 2013 #15

Right ....because who could forget this.. VanillaRhapsody Nov 2013 #30

Hillary did that? wow. cali Nov 2013 #44

Or you think Hillary is going to BUST that trend? VanillaRhapsody Nov 2013 #50

No democratic candidate is going to bust that trend. Iggo Nov 2013 #209

Thank YOU finally.... VanillaRhapsody Nov 2013 #218

You still don't get it Proud Public Servant Nov 2013 #237

Who says she is 3rd Way? Has she? VanillaRhapsody Nov 2013 #239

Gosh, where to start? Proud Public Servant Nov 2013 #247

but see...that is like.....YOUR opinion man... VanillaRhapsody Nov 2013 #253

You know what's not my opinion? Proud Public Servant Nov 2013 #286

and do any of them have the polling power to beat even Chris Christie? VanillaRhapsody Nov 2013 #292

There it is! You just made Cali's point for him. Proud Public Servant Nov 2013 #302

I plan to defeat Republicans.....what is YOUR plan? VanillaRhapsody Nov 2013 #304

Hillary was a Senator not a Congressman VanillaRhapsody Nov 2013 #295

Senators can join Proud Public Servant Nov 2013 #299

So are you holding it against ALL Senators...or JUST Hillary? VanillaRhapsody Nov 2013 #301

Not all senators affiliated with the DLC Proud Public Servant Nov 2013 #303

And did President Barack Obama? VanillaRhapsody Nov 2013 #307

bwahahahaha. Who says it? cali Nov 2013 #270

Again I ask...do you think Hillary will bust THAT trend? VanillaRhapsody Nov 2013 #67

I think things are different now. And yes, I think Hilly will be a fucking disaster cali Nov 2013 #79

Right a Democratic President is always a disaster right? VanillaRhapsody Nov 2013 #84

Something else I didn't say cali Nov 2013 #88

YOU said she would be a disaster... VanillaRhapsody Nov 2013 #103

Impossible to know, but I think we have hints cali Nov 2013 #113

and TPP has been in the work for years lunasun Nov 2013 #193

I see a problem here. RC Nov 2013 #216

Good imagery. LuvNewcastle Nov 2013 #35

True, and things won't change until we change the game... polichick Nov 2013 #346

Politics does require coalitions treestar Nov 2013 #547

Roughly, yes. The "D" after a candidate's name actually is the most important thing Recursion Nov 2013 #584

I would ask a different question -- Nuclear Unicorn Nov 2013 #20

WHY??? Need you ask? fadedrose Nov 2013 #39

I'm sure Hillary's ambitions are her own. Whatever Bill's unctions may be they Nuclear Unicorn Nov 2013 #70

Treating women as appendages of their husbands seems antiquated./nt DemocratSinceBirth Nov 2013 #111

Is it OK for you if she continues breathing, or does that bother you too? Beacool Nov 2013 #276

Because I'm actually too busy getting the 2014 Congress to go blue. msanthrope Nov 2013 #21

what are you doing to turn the House blue? cali Nov 2013 #25

I'm in PA. We have a bunch of seats that could swing, and the governorship. msanthrope Nov 2013 #36

This has been my argument all along... TreasonousBastard Nov 2013 #51

It's a game Puzzledtraveller Nov 2013 #23

She was pushing hard for universal health care way back in 1992. Nye Bevan Nov 2013 #28

Bernie. cali Nov 2013 #33

And thank goodness for that. Laelth Nov 2013 #526

This was a sideline thing...she was NOT an elected official fadedrose Nov 2013 #52

intentions count and are enough for a lot of progressives uponit7771 Nov 2013 #87

Carrot before the horse = universal health care. She's a war hawk corporatist. L0oniX Nov 2013 #121

no more than FDR, again... giving HRC a higher bar than the male DEM presidents is so... uponit7771 Nov 2013 #124

She could have just sat on her butt and enjoyed living in the White House. Nye Bevan Nov 2013 #219

Her plan was not progressive, it was mandatory private insurance grahamhgreen Nov 2013 #275

omg. magical thyme Nov 2013 #45

She's waffled all over the place on Social Security. She sure as hell cali Nov 2013 #59

Not omg. This is an OMG! nt fadedrose Nov 2013 #69

I'll raise you an OMFG!!!!!!! magical thyme Nov 2013 #77

Yes but everything else? VanillaRhapsody Nov 2013 #96

I've added a bunch else. Another half dozen below for your convenience. magical thyme Nov 2013 #108

Truth. Laelth Nov 2013 #527

There has been gigabytes written about Gman Nov 2013 #46

There have been gigabytes of good and bad things written about Hillary. NCTraveler Nov 2013 #53

How about this? Enthusiast Nov 2013 #114

How is this? NCTraveler Nov 2013 #123

I'm hardly a one issue voter. Enthusiast Nov 2013 #147

Agree. nt. NCTraveler Nov 2013 #166

and yet you seem unable to post a cogent argument for supporting her. n/t cali Nov 2013 #238

Think of it as a duplication of effort Gman Nov 2013 #250

Hillary supports many progressive causes. NCTraveler Nov 2013 #49

She's fine on social issues. cali Nov 2013 #81

They are purist, if HRC or Warren aren't 120% perfect then they need not apply uponit7771 Nov 2013 #93

Not fair. Laelth Nov 2013 #154

very fair, HRC shouldn't have a higher bar than the dem men that came before her that are hailed as uponit7771 Nov 2013 #174

there isn't a higher bar for her, but thanks for posting the inevitable cali Nov 2013 #240

There is a higher bar, those hating on HRC woud've despised FDR ... facts are facts... and why uponit7771 Nov 2013 #259

oh goody, a silly anachronistic "argument" cali Nov 2013 #262

I would vote for Sanders or Warren. I won't vote for Hillary. Katashi_itto Nov 2013 #55

Okay, Sanders, Warren, or Feingold in a primary... thesquanderer Nov 2013 #116

Feingold too would be good. Katashi_itto Nov 2013 #130

Perhaps it would be better to crash and burn quickly... polichick Nov 2013 #306

That could be prophetic. Beacool Nov 2013 #330

Let it happen. Let people see what's really going on. It won't last long... polichick Nov 2013 #334

You give the people too much credit. Beacool Nov 2013 #347

I do tend to think people are smarter than they are... polichick Nov 2013 #353

Thats my view too Katashi_itto Nov 2013 #364

This response is going to feel eerily similar to another of my responses. Laelth Nov 2013 #56

You did good fadedrose Nov 2013 #82

Thanks. Laelth Nov 2013 #89

Re the financial link (not that what I think matters as I don't even live in the States) sibelian Nov 2013 #536

Most Democrats are utter cowards. Laelth Nov 2013 #539

We have demanded that the President become a champion for economic justice Enthusiast Nov 2013 #122

Have we? Laelth Nov 2013 #180

Tell you what, Enthusiast Nov 2013 #194

Fair enough. Laelth Nov 2013 #208

thanks. you actually present an argument. cali Nov 2013 #242

With you, my dear cali, I can actually have this discussion. Laelth Nov 2013 #244

you still presented the best argument for her that I've seen, Laelth cali Nov 2013 #283

My pleasure. Laelth Nov 2013 #305

Here NCTraveler Nov 2013 #57

Her time in the Senate NCTraveler Nov 2013 #60

Her work in crafting and supporting the TPP as SoS kind of negates cali Nov 2013 #245

Negates a lifetime of work? NCTraveler Nov 2013 #357

yep, I'll hold my nose and vote for her heaven05 Nov 2013 #62

Cool. Dare taken. Laelth Nov 2013 #119

+++++ heaven05 Nov 2013 #133

Fair enough. Laelth Nov 2013 #144

Maybe because some of us have a little class & refuse to get down in the mud slinging William769 Nov 2013 #63

It's about facts. And the facts aren't bogeymen cali Nov 2013 #75

Oh no, Bill, you're speaking for me, too. Please allow me to associate myself with your remarks. nt MADem Nov 2013 #97

Welcome to the grown ups table. William769 Nov 2013 #102

Sigh. I am not sure that particular frame is helpful. Laelth Nov 2013 #529

Hillary, unlike FDR, hasn't been a perfect progressive so she's disqualified /sarcasm uponit7771 Nov 2013 #101

You spoke for me. Good job. Agschmid Nov 2013 #137

+1 JoePhilly Nov 2013 #146

Or it could be that most people actually involved in the process are focused on 2014. grantcart Nov 2013 #173

Texas has a 2014 fight for Governor that is going to be my main focus Gothmog Nov 2013 #377

I'm with you, and one more thing: MineralMan Nov 2013 #212

... William769 Nov 2013 #213

Well..... fadedrose Nov 2013 #461

I must have missed that exchange. Laelth Nov 2013 #530

It was at the House Benghazi hearing fadedrose Nov 2013 #550

I missed that. Laelth Nov 2013 #551

Very classy................. Beacool Nov 2013 #498

Hillary: "Keep abortion safe, legal and rare". Nye Bevan Nov 2013 #66

Just like every other potential dem candidate. cali Nov 2013 #72

Why are the Clintons so greedy??? cali Nov 2013 #68

What is Alan Grayson worth? NCTraveler Nov 2013 #78

Shit, that's bargain basement prices. Didn't Saint Ronnie of Reagan make two million for two MADem Nov 2013 #117

There are many honest arguements to be made showing areas where.... NCTraveler Nov 2013 #135

Hillary is a pragmatic progressive. She does what she can, and she doesn't bullshit people. MADem Nov 2013 #141

I have no idea. Why the hell should she be making those speeches for that kind of money? cali Nov 2013 #145

You are now not being serious. That is very clear. nt. NCTraveler Nov 2013 #170

& yet no response regarding the $$$ giftedgirl77 Nov 2013 #203

What response do you expect to get about the $. NCTraveler Nov 2013 #349

??? giftedgirl77 Nov 2013 #354

Thank you for clarifying what should have already been clear to me. NCTraveler Nov 2013 #362

No worries giftedgirl77 Nov 2013 #368

Yes. Sprinkled with a bit of envy ? lumpy Nov 2013 #389

I promise I'm not usually this dense.... giftedgirl77 Nov 2013 #391

I would ask what did the Clintons already do for that money, Whisp Nov 2013 #443

If you have a son or daughter I sugguest you have them watch this. NCTraveler Nov 2013 #73

Nice post. Thanks for that. Laelth Nov 2013 #531

There's not a dearth of progressive arguments for Hillary. n/t DanM Nov 2013 #76

not when it comes to social issues. She's fine there- like every other cali Nov 2013 #95

And therein lies the problem. NuclearDem Nov 2013 #136

+1. n/t Laelth Nov 2013 #532

No progressive would ever support her. Vashta Nerada Nov 2013 #83

^^^this^^^ L0oniX Nov 2013 #127

So, Bill DeBlasio and Howard Dean aren't progressives, now? MADem Nov 2013 #134

Links to your assertion that they support Hillary. Vashta Nerada Nov 2013 #226

You do know that DeBlasio ran her Senate campaign in NY? MADem Nov 2013 #291

I did not know about De Blasio and his relationship with HRC. Vashta Nerada Nov 2013 #333

Well I do beg your pardon. That said, I got a strong whiff of snark in your subject line MADem Nov 2013 #352

Except this one. Vashta Nerada Nov 2013 #355

Well, one person's progressive is another person's unrealistic, recalcitrant obstructionist. MADem Nov 2013 #372

Yes. Vashta Nerada Nov 2013 #409

Or an unrealistic, recalcitrant, obstructionist. MADem Nov 2013 #419

So now I'm an obstructionist? Vashta Nerada Nov 2013 #433

You know yourself better than anyone else. MADem Nov 2013 #497

Ah. Vashta Nerada Nov 2013 #499

It's not a cliche. It's math. MADem Nov 2013 #502

Well played giftedgirl77 Nov 2013 #341

She and Bill also hosted a fundraiser for him, and raised over a million bucks for his mayoral MADem Nov 2013 #345

There is a serious case of denial or giftedgirl77 Nov 2013 #351

It's a small group, but they are very, very angry at being thwarted. MADem Nov 2013 #358

If they do know they will omitt that fact to giftedgirl77 Nov 2013 #373

Yep. Vashta Nerada Nov 2013 #435

This is what she is, and it's a shame you can't see it. MADem Nov 2013 #471

Hahahahahaha. Vashta Nerada Nov 2013 #482

Well, that's a post worth saving for posterity. MADem Nov 2013 #517

She's a little further right than President Obama in this graph... adirondacker Nov 2013 #508

OTI actually backs up their placement with details, as you can see if you look at the web page. MADem Nov 2013 #512

I think a lot of it, is a matter of perspective... adirondacker Nov 2013 #515

I don't care if HRC has corporate sponsors, so long as the corporate sponsors are MADem Nov 2013 #516

Excellent post (#291). Thanks for that. Laelth Nov 2013 #533

I believed with demographic shifts the Democrats would never lose another presidential election. DemocratSinceBirth Nov 2013 #99

not just the perception questionseverything Nov 2013 #382

Good post. Laelth Nov 2013 #534

Your OP is bait...so I'll respond... Sancho Nov 2013 #100

Who are these exremists? Bradical79 Nov 2013 #126

I was asking, but Alan Grayson comes to mind.... Sancho Nov 2013 #207

very sensible post. BootinUp Nov 2013 #138

There is some polling that shows Hilary Clinton may put Texas into play in 2016 Gothmog Nov 2013 #365

Why should Hillary supporters try to convince Hillary haters of anything?... SidDithers Nov 2013 #109

Exactly. IrishAyes Nov 2013 #158

This is just a flame bait thread. If it was really aimed at having a discussion of the issues, the lostincalifornia Nov 2013 #225

thank you northoftheborder Nov 2013 #246

+1 Metric System Nov 2013 #310

Truly lumpy Nov 2013 #401

Interesting perspective. Laelth Nov 2013 #535

This....... Beacool Nov 2013 #317

That's what I'm thinking, Sid. Who really takes pot stirrers seriously, anyway? lumpy Nov 2013 #392

A question worth asking and worth supporters attempting to answer. Poll_Blind Nov 2013 #128

I wasn't aware she was running. As far as I knew, we don't have any declared candidates so OregonBlue Nov 2013 #139

cali, if i didn't know better... i'd say you're not a big hillary fan... dionysus Nov 2013 #142

lol. cali Nov 2013 #153

Why CAN'T we present an argument in her favor? Better, why DON'T we do so. IrishAyes Nov 2013 #151

Lol, I look at it the same way I try to get my husband giftedgirl77 Nov 2013 #179

You can't convince anyone of anything unless you try. Laelth Nov 2013 #537

Maya Angelou reminds us, "When somebody shows you what they are, believe them." IrishAyes Nov 2013 #560

I will assume you're not talking about me, then. Laelth Nov 2013 #561

At this time I did not aim those words at any individual in particular; speaking in generalities for IrishAyes Nov 2013 #562

Does anyone believe for a second that conservative Dems would vote for, say, Sanders... Marr Nov 2013 #155

or close the polling stations or cut party money or MisterP Nov 2013 #454

Very good point. Laelth Nov 2013 #538

After Hil we can have Jeb. JEB Nov 2013 #156

The only thing I care about is 2014!! Any other discussion is moot to me. But if Hillary is the Liberal_Stalwart71 Nov 2013 #160

This is pretty early to be coming out if the woodwork upaloopa Nov 2013 #162

The closest I've seen to an argument is "because she can beat the repuke", but hughee99 Nov 2013 #171

And if that's the case, why wouldn't we run a real liberal? Laelth Nov 2013 #540

Why should there be an OP selling Hillary? Gman Nov 2013 #183

If she's progressive, and a leader, why has her stint as a WalMart Board member done nothing .... Scuba Nov 2013 #189

re: "I've yet to see..." It is 20 f'ing 13 cthulu2016 Nov 2013 #199

Thank you for some perspective. In fact, I don't think she even announced yet? lostincalifornia Nov 2013 #228

Yes, and the HIllary train has left the station cali Nov 2013 #248

"Inevitability"� Warren DeMontague Nov 2013 #202

For a women's right to choose, for civil rights, including gay rights, for Kyoto Protocol, clean air lostincalifornia Nov 2013 #215

thank you northoftheborder Nov 2013 #243

+1, FDR wasn't a perfect progressive no prez is but the extra hate on HRC is overt in some cases uponit7771 Nov 2013 #261

I don't hate her personally. I hate what she represents regarding cali Nov 2013 #269

... and if Warren would support any of those you'd throw away your support for her? uponit7771 Nov 2013 #279

I don't support Warren. cali Nov 2013 #287

"Again, FDR was not the corporately owned creature that Hillary is. " You sure?!?!?! uponit7771 Nov 2013 #309

Yes. cali Nov 2013 #434

From the FDR library.... "How did the Roosevelt and Delano families make their money? " uponit7771 Nov 2013 #487

It is common knowledge that FDR came from a wealthy family. Kermitt Gribble Nov 2013 #503

Hear, hear! n/t Laelth Nov 2013 #541

Big Goverment, Big Party Liberal here..I support the ticktet Peacetrain Nov 2013 #221

At least you are willing to support Warren if she decided to run. Laelth Nov 2013 #263

Absolutely!! Peacetrain Nov 2013 #325

How come you can't wait until at least she announces? Beacool Nov 2013 #249

The Democratic Party's "big tent" is a bear sometimes, isn't it? n/t Laelth Nov 2013 #254

It has nothing to do with having other candidates running. Beacool Nov 2013 #264

Hillary could win hands down against any other opponent. Laelth Nov 2013 #268

DU is dividing because the party is dividing... polichick Nov 2013 #282

Frankly, I think that a fraction of the party is dividing. Beacool Nov 2013 #285

Hopefully we won't actually divide - but there is a growing number of Dem voters... polichick Nov 2013 #294

That works both ways. Beacool Nov 2013 #312

That old "vote for our candidates or the bad guys will get in" doesn't work when... polichick Nov 2013 #323

Did you see the study that said Americans under 30 prefer socialism to capitalism? Laelth Nov 2013 #544

Spot on. Your post #282 nails what's going on in this thread. Laelth Nov 2013 #543

'Are we going to be subjected to daily bash Hillary threads?' MineralMan Nov 2013 #387

Ah, you mentioned "Support Her in the Primaries". Xyzse Nov 2013 #260

Some people are just born "apparent Democratic nominees" I guess. polichick Nov 2013 #271

cali, this is a flamebait thread. you're better than this. scheming daemons Nov 2013 #272

No, she's not. Beacool Nov 2013 #288

No, it's not flamebait. Please see my exchange with Laelth cali Nov 2013 #289

I'm a liberal. I'm not a "progressive" and I support Hillary Clinton until a better candidate The Second Stone Nov 2013 #273

Unless she supports economic justice, her support for the rights of children cali Nov 2013 #293

Hate Warren Buffet much? The Second Stone Nov 2013 #329

I neither hate him or love him and I fail to see what he has to do with it. cali Nov 2013 #335

Who do you propose? You've got someone better The Second Stone Nov 2013 #371

I've written many responses in my support of Hillary...and I'm right up there with you. Thing I'm libdem4life Nov 2013 #381

Good post. Money matters. Laelth Nov 2013 #545

That's very interesting. Could you please post the link? libdem4life Nov 2013 #564

Sure. Laelth Nov 2013 #565

Great...I'll read it. libdem4life Nov 2013 #566

Apologies...forgot to thank you for the link. libdem4life Nov 2013 #577

No problem. Laelth Nov 2013 #580

I consider myself officially in a political place I am most comfortable..learning..options..what if? libdem4life Nov 2013 #581

I definitely come to DU to learn. Laelth Nov 2013 #582

Well stated...along with some new thoughts. :) libdem4life Nov 2013 #585

I'm looking at Martin O'Malley. I'd like to Sherrod Brown run cali Nov 2013 #528

Moyers & Co: Can We PLEASE Knock Off the Speculation About 2016? 2banon Nov 2013 #296

No. My friendly ex is the Democratic Executive Director of a Blue County in a Blue State. libdem4life Nov 2013 #394

+1. Well said. n/t Laelth Nov 2013 #546

She's not John Edwards? wyldwolf Nov 2013 #308

And thank goodness for that!!! Beacool Nov 2013 #350

lol, i almost choked when I saw this post headline. dems aren't going to start okieinpain Nov 2013 #313

Curious as to how many more anti-Hillary threads we can expect from you. Old and In the Way Nov 2013 #316

I can't be bothered with her right now. She is a private citizen and hasn't declared kestrel91316 Nov 2013 #328

Yeah, her Goldwater years........ Beacool Nov 2013 #336

You do realize that Elizabeth Warren was a staunch republican for... Walk away Nov 2013 #338

I don't know about "staunch," but she did vote for Rs prior to 1995. Laelth Nov 2013 #361

At least I support an actual candidate. nt Walk away Nov 2013 #586

Why can't people who are constantly griping about Hillary Clinton... Walk away Nov 2013 #332

Good one. Beacool Nov 2013 #339

Demographics say we will win no matter whom we run. Laelth Nov 2013 #359

LMAO Epic fail. L0oniX Nov 2013 #388

This thread is absolutely incredible beerandjesus Nov 2013 #366

Great post. Laelth Nov 2013 #375

There are plenty of comments about her experience as a Senator and SecState, MADem Nov 2013 #386

Pretty light on substance there. beerandjesus Nov 2013 #417

You can't be serious. MADem Nov 2013 #431

It sounds to me like you're conceding the point. beerandjesus Nov 2013 #441

Conceding what point? MADem Nov 2013 #462

Oh, I see now! You're right! Hillary's just as liberal as Bernie! beerandjesus Nov 2013 #478

You can goad/bait all you'd like, but if you paid attention, she's NOT the same as Bernie. MADem Nov 2013 #485

That's a really good web site. beerandjesus Nov 2013 #488

I didn't insult anyone. MADem Nov 2013 #491

My mind is made up only until someone else shows up. I have posted frequently and liberally and libdem4life Nov 2013 #404

Mostly agree. And yes, I'll take 'Better than a Republican' over 'Republican' any day of the week. beerandjesus Nov 2013 #423

I know..I'm really trying harder..and I'm not excited, either. 20 years of Bushes or 16 of Clinton/ libdem4life Nov 2013 #430

Here is a fix. IGNORE THOSE DLC TROLLS bobduca Nov 2013 #542

Thing is, I value their opinions, even though they sometimes piss me off. beerandjesus Nov 2013 #553

I appreciate your optimism bobduca Nov 2013 #556

Ha, optimism takes discipline I don't claim to have... beerandjesus Nov 2013 #557

Message auto-removed Name removed Nov 2013 #374

Excellent question. n/t whathehell Nov 2013 #376

Here (brace yourself), ProSense Nov 2013 #383

They ARE presenting arguments...just not here brooklynite Nov 2013 #384

Exactly!! Beacool Nov 2013 #412

there are people here who support her who have not advanced an argument for her cali Nov 2013 #413

I would like to respectfully disagree, in case you've missed most of my posts. libdem4life Nov 2013 #440

yours don't count because... well... they run counter to the OP's premise. wyldwolf Nov 2013 #447

Mine are Cricket Posts ... get it? ... can hear the crickets. These Anti-Hillary folks are pretty libdem4life Nov 2013 #455

"tame compared to half of my Right Wing, Fundamentalist, Bircher family." wyldwolf Nov 2013 #490

Oh, you went there !! libdem4life Nov 2013 #494

Message auto-removed Name removed Nov 2013 #385

But she has already had her crown fitted. JEB Nov 2013 #390

Oh good grief don't even play like that... giftedgirl77 Nov 2013 #415

Goldfish sounds like a most sensible 11 year old. JEB Nov 2013 #483

No real progressive can justify running her. Someone needs to primary against her. Th1onein Nov 2013 #411

that is quite odd, isn't it? Whisp Nov 2013 #416

I think Hillary will be fine on core Democratic issues. hrmjustin Nov 2013 #444

Agree 100%... which would I think HRC would mean yet another 4 years of playing defense beerandjesus Nov 2013 #448

She's against raising the cap on Social Security and Kermitt Gribble Nov 2013 #505

Well it looks like it will be a good idea that there is a primary so these issues can be discussed. hrmjustin Nov 2013 #506

Excellent Q. It appears only conservatives support her Corruption Inc Nov 2013 #445

I am not a conservative and I support her. hrmjustin Nov 2013 #450

If you support her, then maybe you know what she stands for. rhett o rick Nov 2013 #460

What is the TTP? I am sorry I do not know what that is. hrmjustin Nov 2013 #463

It's the TPP or Trans Pacific Partnership. NAFTA on steroids. It will nullify national sovereignty. rhett o rick Nov 2013 #470

Thank you for the link. I bookmarked it. I was not a fan of Nafta. hrmjustin Nov 2013 #475

There is a wealth of editorializing treestar Nov 2013 #549

I am very supportive of the President and very unsupportive of Clinton. Whisp Nov 2013 #452

I think they're very similar dreamnightwind Nov 2013 #522

For one thing, Obama is not a cheater and a liar. Whisp Nov 2013 #559

OK, thanks for responding dreamnightwind Nov 2013 #578

As a standard 3rd Way "not as bad" candidate she's "not quite as bad" as Joe Lieberman. Tierra_y_Libertad Nov 2013 #449

2016 is a long way off. GOTV 2014! It's almost here! nt jazzimov Nov 2013 #453

because they are too busy working the ground to get actual support for her JI7 Nov 2013 #457

Message auto-removed Name removed Nov 2013 #479

They dont have to. She doesnt have to commit to stands on specific issues because rhett o rick Nov 2013 #480

Will no one rid me of this damned priest...? LanternWaste Nov 2013 #492

The ugly truth is that it is deliberate DLC/Third Way strategy. woo me with science Nov 2013 #493

+1. n/t Laelth Nov 2013 #555

+1 Bradical79 Nov 2013 #569

To have Bill back in the White House CFLDem Nov 2013 #495

Thoroughly interesting. Laelth Nov 2013 #554

Well that's not a comforting thought, let alone dream....even without the "sarcasm" smilie libdem4life Nov 2013 #567

Why? Bradical79 Nov 2013 #570

I was still in grade school CFLDem Nov 2013 #575

500...nt SidDithers Nov 2013 #500

They can and they do; the bashers just don't like the "argument" for Hillary Hekate Nov 2013 #523

I'm sure they can treestar Nov 2013 #548

I'm not a huge fan, but outside of DU the argument is something like this Recursion Nov 2013 #583