General Discussion

eridani

(51,907 posts)

50. They absolutely should not only be forced to subsidize smokers, but smokers should get a discount

Wed Nov 20, 2013, 07:09 AM

Nov 2013

--because it is the smokers who are subsidizing the non-smokers

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/02/05/health/05iht-obese.1.9748884.html

Preventing obesity and smoking can save lives, but it does not save money, according to a new report.

It costs more to care for healthy people who live years longer, according to a Dutch study that counters the common perception that preventing obesity would save governments millions of dollars.

"It was a small surprise," said Pieter van Baal, an economist at the National Institute for Public Health and the Environment in the Netherlands, who led the study. "But it also makes sense. If you live longer, then you cost the health system more."

In a paper published online Monday in the Public Library of Science Medicine journal, Dutch researchers found that the health costs of thin and healthy people in adulthood are more expensive than those of either fat people or smokers.

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If you want your insurance to cover you, but not fat, sick or other people, then it's not insurance [View all] CreekDog Nov 2013 OP

Also, even if you're young and healthy, you could have an accident. Arugula Latte Nov 2013 #1

some people, luckily only a minority here, want the benefits of insurance CreekDog Nov 2013 #3

Our own little conservatives. Change has come Nov 2013 #30

You are correct, CreekDog. nt NYC_SKP Nov 2013 #2

Younger drivers pay more than older drivers, Nuclear Unicorn Nov 2013 #4

so what level of discount do you want for being in shape? CreekDog Nov 2013 #5

I live in the country. As part of that Lover Boy and I have a dog. Nuclear Unicorn Nov 2013 #6

"Insurance has always been able to account for personal choices and demographics." geek tragedy Nov 2013 #18

A child born with leukemia is nothing like Nuclear Unicorn Nov 2013 #22

Oh, your making a values judgment. The more despicable the behavior the more they should pay. Ed Suspicious Nov 2013 #77

How is that? kcr Nov 2013 #7

Prove the point? I admit the point. Nuclear Unicorn Nov 2013 #9

You have a funny way of admitting points. kcr Nov 2013 #11

Should people with DUI accidents pay the same as life long safe drivers? Nuclear Unicorn Nov 2013 #12

Oh, no! Not moral dictates! kcr Nov 2013 #17

You started by saying you had a reason. Obviously you now concede you never did. Nuclear Unicorn Nov 2013 #20

Oh, I had a reason. But you incredibly dismissed it as a moral dictate kcr Nov 2013 #21

"You don't believe society has any moral obligations whatsoever?" Nuclear Unicorn Nov 2013 #24

I don't know. It seems to me you bring those on yourself kcr Nov 2013 #26

If you conflate people bearing the consequences for their own willful actions Nuclear Unicorn Nov 2013 #28

Yes, you are off the mark kcr Nov 2013 #29

"Either it's the right thing to do or it isn't." Nuclear Unicorn Nov 2013 #51

The question is that... christx30 Nov 2013 #38

That's only the question kcr Nov 2013 #40

I think if someone is paying christx30 Nov 2013 #45

Well, you're free to think anything you want to kcr Nov 2013 #46

But it's not spreading christx30 Nov 2013 #47

But it won't be just smokers kcr Nov 2013 #48

Pregnancy HockeyMom Nov 2013 #55

I see your point but where would you draw the line? You do know that A Simple Game Nov 2013 #37

They absolutely should not only be forced to subsidize smokers, but smokers should get a discount eridani Nov 2013 #50

A teenage driver who drove drunk after midnight on a two-lane rural highway is now a paraplegic FarCenter Nov 2013 #14

I'm sorry I honestly don't understand your point. Could you please elaborate. Nuclear Unicorn Nov 2013 #16

Are you saying Dorian Gray Nov 2013 #23

look here and see what he said about slavery... CreekDog Nov 2013 #35

That shit right there. That fucking bullshit. Skip Intro Nov 2013 #83

They aren't ashamed of those words, why would posting their opinion embarass them? CreekDog Nov 2013 #85

Right, so the teenage driver injured that way will just have to draw from their millions in savings CreekDog Nov 2013 #31

Here's what you said about slavery...why should anyone here listen to you on anything else? CreekDog Nov 2013 #33

But what would we charge someone who will get cancer in two years demigoddess Nov 2013 #32

Getting cancer is 2 years is not the same as a lifelong smoker contracting emphysema Nuclear Unicorn Nov 2013 #53

Addiction is illness. Ed Suspicious Nov 2013 #78

It's self-imposed. Nuclear Unicorn Nov 2013 #79

It's not that easy. Younger drivers pay more because they are a known risk. They WILL have accidents jtuck004 Nov 2013 #34

None of which disproves my point that the OP is based on a false premise. Nuclear Unicorn Nov 2013 #52

The OP said insurance is based on pooling risk - which is true. But whatever you think. n/t jtuck004 Nov 2013 #59

And older people will pay 3x more for health insurance. So what's your point? pnwmom Nov 2013 #69

Health care is a basic human right... life insurance and vicious dogs are not Hippo_Tron Nov 2013 #73

A decent compassionate society doesn't penalize people Nuclear Unicorn Nov 2013 #75

Yes it does Hippo_Tron Nov 2013 #76

No, that's you imposing a baseless, subjective morality on others. Nuclear Unicorn Nov 2013 #80

A subjective baseless morality that EVERY OTHER WESTERN INDUSTRIALZIED NATION ON THE PLANET lives by Hippo_Tron Nov 2013 #81

"too bad we're going to let you die" Nuclear Unicorn Nov 2013 #84

The original idea of insurance was to share risk ..... oldhippie Nov 2013 #8

Well, heaven forbid we distort the original intent of anything. kcr Nov 2013 #10

Why it's that old liberal redistribution of wealth thing. nt geek tragedy Nov 2013 #19

The entire insurance industry would collapse. JaneyVee Nov 2013 #13

If only. nt Incitatus Nov 2013 #25

We ought to be fighting the drug/medical device companies to force down their prices!! reformist2 Nov 2013 #15

Yes. Health care accessibility is directly related to cost containment. burnsei sensei Nov 2013 #42

Yeah, because the point of having insurance is so you can get treatment when you're sick Yo_Mama Nov 2013 #27

It's the selfishness of "Why should I pay for your health care?" Spitfire of ATJ Nov 2013 #36

See also: "Why should I pay for your library?", "Why should I pay for your roads?", etc. hatrack Nov 2013 #66

Then there's: "Why should I pay for your Wargasm?" Spitfire of ATJ Nov 2013 #67

You cannot go cheap on the heart and head. Rex Nov 2013 #39

I agree with everything you said CreekDog Nov 2013 #43

I am glad you said it and made this into a thread! Rex Nov 2013 #44

I'm glad someone has brought this up. burnsei sensei Nov 2013 #41

insurance companies are, ironically, totally against taking risks. KG Nov 2013 #49

+1000 HockeyMom Nov 2013 #56

they are a business - why is this a surprise? DrDan Nov 2013 #57

"then it is not insurance" - what does that even mean? DrDan Nov 2013 #54

I got a shock from my car insurance company a few months back OwnedByCats Nov 2013 #58

The weight of the US government shouldn't be brought to bear in service of private profit. Romulox Nov 2013 #60

I'm not pretending it's charity, but this is broad based regulation of a market that hasn't had that CreekDog Nov 2013 #61

It is causing prices to explode, while not covering everybody. And we *already* paid more than Romulox Nov 2013 #62

it's not causing prices to explode, the market reforms have actually slowed the cost increases CreekDog Nov 2013 #63

Rise in health care spending lowest on record CreekDog Nov 2013 #65

That is the period of the Great Recession. People were (and are) broke, leading to lower spending. Romulox Nov 2013 #68

You just said it was causing prices to explode, now you're saying it didn't cause prices to explode CreekDog Nov 2013 #70

Spending and costs aren't the same thing. Just like insurance and care are different. Romulox Nov 2013 #71

2013 is over. Nobody's buying insurance for 2013 right now. CreekDog Nov 2013 #74

Some young asshat was blurbed on NPR about that Orrex Nov 2013 #64

He's right. It is a tax, but one paid to a private, for profit corporation. Romulox Nov 2013 #72

Thanks for clearing all that up, CD. Skip Intro Nov 2013 #82

I realize all this is a joke to you, like the government shutdown was too CreekDog Nov 2013 #86