General Discussion

Pab Sungenis

(9,612 posts)

335. "What progressive goals would a Huntsman or a Romney advance us towards better than Obama?"

Mon Dec 19, 2011, 08:11 AM

Dec 2011

Let me put it to you this way.

"What progressive goals would a Dole advance us towards better than Clinton?"

Obama is to the right of Bob Dole on many core issues. His health care plan is a pared down version of Dole's, for example. Dole was also more progressive on gay civil rights.

Yet Obama, for his flaws, was the better choice in 2008. So if we had said in 1995 that "the better candidate will resemble Dole before too many elections" then we would have been right; it only took four.

By playing the triangulation game, and being told we have to accept the lesser of two evils at every turn, we keep moving the "center" farther and farther toward the right.

If we don't stop this process, by 2020 the Democratic nominee will resemble Jon Huntsman and Mitt Romney. And he/she will be the better candidate because the Republican candidate will be further to the right. It may even happen in 2016; if Obama loses next year then the Blue Dogs will make the argument that it was because he was "too far left" and push us towards a nominee who, next to Obama, would make our current President look like the Socialist the Republicans say he is.

And we'll only have ourselves to blame for doing nothing to stop this trend.

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Why the arguments of Obama's defenders leave many cold. [View all] jpgray Dec 2011 OP

Shorter version: Obama is our nominee. tridim Dec 2011 #1

I've always supported him warrior1 Dec 2011 #2

Right, I don't see why non supporters are still trying to convince us he's a terrible President treestar Dec 2011 #106

he's a terrible President AlbertCat Dec 2011 #128

Well according to Obama.... SammyWinstonJack Dec 2011 #160

What is the country that most of the worlds emigres want to immigrate too? I'm totally unbiased, I demosincebirth Dec 2011 #308

The richest one of course. No surprise and no reason for pride. GOTV Dec 2011 #340

Please name a "great president" flamingdem Feb 2012 #395

+1 nt gateley Dec 2011 #172

I agree, President Obama inherited a lot of shit and sometimes I do not agree with some of his akbacchus_BC Dec 2011 #323

did you say Obama defenders are 'morally bankrupt and contemptible?' bigtree Dec 2011 #3

Yup, ProSense Dec 2011 #12

well, the new system will let it stand on this new DU (I was just informed) bigtree Dec 2011 #20

This is a Democratic refuge, the Obama refuge I've been told is called the BOG, Lionessa Dec 2011 #56

Then it is permissable for non-supporters of the leader of the Democratic Party to call those Ikonoklast Dec 2011 #67

Many of the people who are critcle of Obama not only voted for him UnrepentantLiberal Dec 2011 #174

That includes almost everybody I know. tblue Dec 2011 #196

I never called a poster that criticised Mr. Obama 'morally bankrupt' and an 'addict'. Ikonoklast Dec 2011 #204

Nope. You can't BlueCaliDem Dec 2011 #254

A big HELLO to that peace frog Dec 2011 #353

exactly-- me too. I am not just disappointed with Obama, I am disgusted with him. spooked911 Dec 2011 #361

Blind faith is for the other side. Muskypundit Dec 2011 #211

Name calling is so like 'the other side', too. Ikonoklast Dec 2011 #225

I agree with most of the OP. It would have been a better OP Muskypundit Dec 2011 #229

The real problem with that is, that WAS the message. Ikonoklast Dec 2011 #238

thank you. Exactly as I feel. n/t Ed Suspicious Dec 2011 #298

Not to mention the fact that the President himself... green917 Dec 2011 #360

Message deleted by the DU Administrators fordangelina40 Feb 2012 #381

why not? you call anyone who criticizes him a Republican voter StarsInHerHair Dec 2011 #287

Link to where I have ever done so, please. Ikonoklast Dec 2011 #306

I don't bookmark such trash, it is commonly done, most here have seen it & I was generally referring StarsInHerHair Dec 2011 #307

You were referring to *me* directly. You cannot back it up, so you deflect. Ikonoklast Dec 2011 #313

how about this? back the fuck off of me! StarsInHerHair Dec 2011 #317

What part of that is not true? Ikonoklast Dec 2011 #318

then link it & you don;t know what a person is registered Dem or other StarsInHerHair Dec 2011 #319

Rec this post!!! MNBrewer Dec 2011 #190

Classy. Arkana Feb 2012 #404

What is the goal here? JDPriestly Dec 2011 #152

Goals mean nothing without Estevan Dec 2011 #170

But just what is the goal? JDPriestly Dec 2011 #187

The situation is thus: Estevan Dec 2011 #198

The payroll tax cut weakens the underlying principles of Social Security. JDPriestly Dec 2011 #203

That "payroll tax cut undermines s.s" Estevan Dec 2011 #207

I wouldn't have a clue as to what Fox News says. JDPriestly Dec 2011 #265

Republican Senators Push False Argument That Payroll Tax Cut Will Undermine Social Security shellgame26 Dec 2011 #269

Replacing Social Security taxes with general fund revenues is what I personally object to. JDPriestly Dec 2011 #284

I agree with you 100% jtown1123 Feb 2012 #387

Not true. Democratic seniors groups are highly critical of the payroll tax cut jtown1123 Feb 2012 #386

and to address that other RW talking point Estevan Dec 2011 #220

and here's what I don't understand about the unreasonable persons: They think that if they Liberal_Stalwart71 Dec 2011 #216

That is why it is so important that we here on DU JDPriestly Dec 2011 #226

Thank you so much for your thoughtful post. You understand what many of us need to be doing. Liberal_Stalwart71 Dec 2011 #232

There have been many threads here on the new DU3 in GD regarding ... Tx4obama Dec 2011 #250

I have to check whether I am on the research forum. Great idea. JDPriestly Dec 2011 #290

Finding actual texts of proposed/passed legislation is very easy. Liberal_Stalwart71 Dec 2011 #348

Thanks. Bookmarked it. JDPriestly Dec 2011 #369

But, on many issues such as privatization of schools JDPriestly Dec 2011 #266

He's not moving backwards. He's working within the constraints of a Congress that we gave him in Liberal_Stalwart71 Dec 2011 #354

When given a choice between backing a progressive or backing a Blue Dog, JDPriestly Dec 2011 #370

You're right. I was highly upset that he butted in the Blanche Lincoln race, so I agree with you Liberal_Stalwart71 Dec 2011 #380

It was Bill Clinton that slammed liberals and unions for challenging Blanche Lincoln in a primary. AtomicKitten Feb 2012 #400

no if voters are moving away from Obama then he should realize he needs to win them back b4 they StarsInHerHair Dec 2011 #289

Yes, push him towards the action we want. But bitching on an online forum does NOT constitute Liberal_Stalwart71 Dec 2011 #351

Right on shellgame26 Dec 2011 #239

hmph chervilant Dec 2011 #246

I never said it was wrong to criticize President Obama Estevan Dec 2011 #262

I've seen a lot of defending of Obama without analysis, but not so much JDPriestly Dec 2011 #267

Never said i agree with all of his policies Estevan Dec 2011 #270

There is so much emotion on this topic because the euphoria JDPriestly Dec 2011 #278

Thank you. jtown1123 Feb 2012 #390

PS chervilant Dec 2011 #249

Yes you are right Estevan Dec 2011 #261

The payroll tax cut is fucking stupid, given that 48% of the population-- eridani Dec 2011 #288

I really wish we extended Making Work Pay instead. Much better stimulus. n/t jtown1123 Feb 2012 #391

Politics is not the Monty Hall Problem. Pab Sungenis Dec 2011 #326

We only get one vote when November comes. JDPriestly Feb 2012 #407

You know your list of things is something that takes time...if you look at what it would take... Evasporque Feb 2012 #399

In this world there are those who get it, and those who dont. Muskypundit Dec 2011 #214

I saw a post hidden earlier today because a poster was called immature or something Kahuna Dec 2011 #255

You left off the last half of the sentence, which was eridani Dec 2011 #281

I grow so tired of the ENDLESS cheerleading...... Logical Dec 2011 #38

You get so tired of hearing anything positive? treestar Dec 2011 #107

Why can't we give valid complaints about Obama without being slammed or dismissed? And why.... Logical Dec 2011 #113

Why should you be able to post anything without getting opposed? treestar Dec 2011 #158

As a pretty consistent Obama detractor, you do a lot of "slamming". CakeGrrl Dec 2011 #177

Should we cheer getting a free pint at the pub while the pub AllyCat Dec 2011 #115

I doubt it but what has that got to do with anything? treestar Dec 2011 #159

That is what we are getting with this Administration AllyCat Dec 2011 #368

Why not? treestar Dec 2011 #373

I guess this is where we disagree. I don't think he's fighting. AllyCat Dec 2011 #377

Perhaps it is the way that criticism is posted? Tx4obama Dec 2011 #256

Maybe we would all benefit if we simply tried to be honest when we JDPriestly Feb 2012 #411

Yes. Jpgray thinks we are morally bankrupt and contemptible. Thanks SO MUCH jpgray! DevonRex Dec 2011 #16

This thread is allowed to remain open. If I had started a thread like this questioning the moral Liberal_Stalwart71 Dec 2011 #22

Thank you SO MUCH DU jurors for KEEPING this disgusting post. DevonRex Dec 2011 #27

I've left DU and came back. I leave for a period, then come back. Were it not for BOG, I may think Liberal_Stalwart71 Dec 2011 #224

it's not as if one couldn't be devised. A little policy discussion and then the hook bigtree Dec 2011 #30

OTOH, it lets us know exactly where we stand on DU, doesn't it? DevonRex Dec 2011 #31

I'm sorry but inane threads scolding people are allowed to stand here too. This is a reasoned bettyellen Dec 2011 #39

Fuck that shit. Calling Democrats morally contemptible and bankrupt is over the line. DevonRex Dec 2011 #40

It's not an attack on all Democrats, just some who act in a particular way. JVS Dec 2011 #51

Sure. Just Obama supporters. None of those here, right? Fuck that shit. DevonRex Dec 2011 #52

you are totally mistaken about the "all or nothing" nature of being an Obabma supporter bettyellen Dec 2011 #59

Then you agree that OP has created a strawman emulatorloo Dec 2011 #146

I see poster after poster here assuming JP, I and others are not "supporters" because they believe bettyellen Dec 2011 #240

That is simply false, the OP speaks of 'defenders' not supporters and yet you rewrite and then Bluenorthwest Dec 2011 #102

You're correct it's not an attack on all Democrats... one_voice Dec 2011 #103

And again, the Moderators haven't done anything about this. Had I started an OP calling Obama Liberal_Stalwart71 Dec 2011 #233

you are missing the point completely Skittles Dec 2011 #219

& calling Dems Republicans or Republican-enablers is fine with you/or supporters in general StarsInHerHair Dec 2011 #291

it's just a well-couched attack on Obama supporters bigtree Dec 2011 #50

no, it's a message from an Obama supporter abut how this 100% perfect rah rah rah stuff is bettyellen Dec 2011 #61

the '100% rah-rah' accusation is an outright lie bigtree Dec 2011 #188

I know that some people right in this thread believe ANY criticism is out of line, and that somehow bettyellen Dec 2011 #241

bigtree, why do you support Obama? JDPriestly Dec 2011 #155

don't be dense. The OP is insulting and offensive bigtree Dec 2011 #189

bigtree, I'm trying to help you argue your case better. JDPriestly Dec 2011 #205

my case on this thread is against the broad brush attacks against Obama supporters bigtree Dec 2011 #215

why can't you just respond to JDPriestly's questions? Skittles Dec 2011 #227

because it's a bullshit deflection bigtree Dec 2011 #302

no it isn't Skittles Dec 2011 #320

it's fucking deflection bigtree Dec 2011 #331

But, but... he's just trying to help you argue your case better! Number23 Dec 2011 #295

I'll bite...here is why... Evasporque Feb 2012 #398

Great answer. Thanks. JDPriestly Feb 2012 #413

Which would explain the dearth of Democrats here, no? Number23 Dec 2011 #175

I joined this website around the time of the 2004 elections. JDPriestly Dec 2011 #213

Nonsense. I think the vast majority of Obama critics eridani Dec 2011 #285

It has happened twice in the last several days when I have alerted threads like this, only to learn Liberal_Stalwart71 Dec 2011 #212

You are exactly right. JNelson6563 Dec 2011 #336

What ProSense Dec 2011 #4

If PoorSense says it's garbage, you must be onto something. izquierdista Dec 2011 #9

Well, izquislingdripsta, I can make up names too. n/t ProSense Dec 2011 #23

I don't agree with most of what ProSense says, but namecalling is inappropriate. AllyCat Dec 2011 #122

I think it's a very clear and accurate analogy. Do you care to explain exactly why you disagree bettyellen Dec 2011 #13

Well, ProSense Dec 2011 #18

okay, more name calling. You have confused "having issues" with being a "purist", LOL. bettyellen Dec 2011 #32

Yeah, ProSense Dec 2011 #33

the denial part is when you refuse to acknowledge issuses, and just label the person a "purist", bettyellen Dec 2011 #43

Here ProSense Dec 2011 #48

the OP cites examples of a phenomenon here, and says SUPPORTof the Pres is GOOD, you ignore this bettyellen Dec 2011 #57

Wait ProSense Dec 2011 #62

I'm expecting people to address the issues raised in the OP. instead of cherry picking a word bettyellen Dec 2011 #70

omg uponit7771 Dec 2011 #379

after Bush got re-elected in 2004 hfojvt Dec 2011 #65

This ProSense Dec 2011 #72

as the OP said hfojvt Dec 2011 #98

Yes, they would have ended if Obama had done nothing, BUT the unemployment benefits extention Tx4obama Dec 2011 #257

+1 nt Poll_Blind Dec 2011 #153

If Obama had the kind of Democrats that LBJ had, along with the supermajority that he did, Liberal_Stalwart71 Dec 2011 #221

Well, as drug-addicted moron with retarded ideas, I can sympathize! sabrina 1 Dec 2011 #137

Tell it, Sabrina. Why aren't Obama supporters happy? They've got their president! tblue Dec 2011 #208

how many names did they call voting Dems? "professional Left, Retarded Left, Left Fringe"...add any StarsInHerHair Dec 2011 #299

Whactivists NashVegas Dec 2011 #356

A question quakerboy Dec 2011 #268

+1 uponit7771 Dec 2011 #378

Last time warrior1 Dec 2011 #5

I'd love to see a poll of who hear voted. tblue Dec 2011 #209

See, this comment is part of the problem. What you are saying is that politicians sabrina 1 Dec 2011 #222

Obama has done nothing analogous to FDR's Ron Green Dec 2011 #6

Some of us have noticed the cabinet. mmonk Dec 2011 #7

It's no longer the 1930's. tridim Dec 2011 #15

That's why I said "analagous." And if you're correct that he's used Ron Green Dec 2011 #21

Big issues like getting the hell out of Iraq? tridim Dec 2011 #29

He's certainly better than the Repubs, just as PBS is better than Ron Green Dec 2011 #34

+1 nt Vanje Dec 2011 #46

easy enough to provide links then, so I & others can bookmark it, it can also be printed & put in StarsInHerHair Dec 2011 #303

Hate to break it to you, Obama does a weekly address every Saturday emulatorloo Dec 2011 #120

It's not enough. Ron Green Dec 2011 #228

What are you proposing exactly? emulatorloo Dec 2011 #230

I dunno; I'm not a real media savant, but Ron Green Dec 2011 #253

Did you see any coverage of Obama's speech at Osawatomie, Kansas the other day? emulatorloo Dec 2011 #292

Fireside chats worked back then because the majority of people ONLY HAD A RADIO. Tx4obama Dec 2011 #260

in the DEPRESSION? no, radio worked because it was new & not yet controlled by monied interests StarsInHerHair Dec 2011 #305

Do you think that the folks that aren't watching his Weekly Address videos now Tx4obama Dec 2011 #309

wow low standards....ok then StarsInHerHair Dec 2011 #310

I think the videos that Obama has been making now and sending out ... Tx4obama Dec 2011 #312

Most things we consider lost are simply things we do not value enough to look for. LanternWaste Dec 2011 #364

President Obama releases a Weekly Address 'every week' Tx4obama Dec 2011 #258

I'm sure some seniors had missed that StarsInHerHair Dec 2011 #311

As I noted upthread, that's all well and good but it is in NO WAY comparable to the magnitude of Ron Green Dec 2011 #365

Here's a link to Obama's most recent call-out on the republicans Tx4obama Dec 2011 #366

Indeed I did, and this is more like it. Ron Green Dec 2011 #367

+1 k&r n/t Laelth Dec 2011 #8

more incessant whining? I'll pass. MjolnirTime Dec 2011 #10

Hogwash liberal N proud Dec 2011 #11

And the cheer leaders are usually "Obama is Perfect" types and not reality based. No difference. Logical Dec 2011 #42

NO!!!!!!!! liberal N proud Dec 2011 #126

I will have to disagree with you on that one. Tx4obama Dec 2011 #263

I think your defination of "constantly" is different than most! Logical Dec 2011 #300

Yes, their demands have to be met. treestar Dec 2011 #110

du rec. nt xchrom Dec 2011 #14

So, you think Obama supporters are morally bankrupt and contemptible, too? DevonRex Dec 2011 #17

you're welcome. nt xchrom Dec 2011 #19

Huh. Interesting. nt DevonRex Dec 2011 #28

get the money out of politics. stonecutter357 Dec 2011 #197

you point out an irony with some of Obama's accomplishments Enrique Dec 2011 #24

"morally bankrupt and contemptible" ... bwahahahahaha!!!! JoePhilly Dec 2011 #25

Funny, it reminds me of Teddy Roosevelt. Who said: Bluenorthwest Dec 2011 #108

Where did I claim "No Criticism" ... the OP makes an INSANE claim. JoePhilly Dec 2011 #279

Throne. aquart Feb 2012 #389

ROFL Scurrilous Dec 2011 #26

Obama supporters: Now we know EXACTLY where we stand on DU - sewer level. DevonRex Dec 2011 #35

you are taking the "purist" approach and ignoring 2/3 of the OPs content. Calm down. bettyellen Dec 2011 #45

I will NOT fucking calm down after having been called morally contemptible and bankrupt & an addict DevonRex Dec 2011 #47

Post removed Post removed Dec 2011 #60

"however minor... is seized upon as a perfectly sane excuse to entirely abandon" rational discussion bettyellen Dec 2011 #73

Or the response of the falsely accused. mythology Dec 2011 #81

get the money out of politics. stonecutter357 Dec 2011 #199

Did you NOT read the short version?! Who needs the 2/3rds?! vaberella Dec 2011 #182

"Obama's defenders are unassailable as regards what should be done in the next election." nashville_brook Dec 2011 #36

Yes! "we have a responsibility to steer our party in the direction of morally supportable policy" bettyellen Dec 2011 #49

i think there's a consumerist mentality that accepts pols "off the rack" as if there's no democracy nashville_brook Dec 2011 #273

This is the crudest, most hurtful, disgusting OP I've ever seen on DU re Obama supporters. DevonRex Dec 2011 #37

It's a hit-and-run too. LoZoccolo Dec 2011 #68

The endless cheer leading gets old. There is not real way to have a valid.... Logical Dec 2011 #41

Yeah, have a valid discussion by labeling those on the other side 'morally bankrupt' and 'addicts'. Ikonoklast Dec 2011 #231

The president took office with a very weak Democratic majority in power. They didn't even impeach Overseas Dec 2011 #44

the most outrageous part of this flamebait thread bigtree Dec 2011 #53

But OP showed up in a pro Obama thread, claiming he/she is a supporter. DevonRex Dec 2011 #55

I think it defends itself. jpgray Dec 2011 #69

YOu're sorry? You wrote it. Called us morally contemptible, bankrupt addicts. DevonRex Dec 2011 #71

He aplogised, so please now address the substance of the post. bettyellen Dec 2011 #77

If he's sorry he wll post an apology OP. And DevonRex Dec 2011 #80

I'm sure if you (or anyone)had a rational response to the points made in the OP, it would have been bettyellen Dec 2011 #86

ha ha, playing the purist game, are we? bettyellen Dec 2011 #125

No, he offered a non-apology "apology" emulatorloo Dec 2011 #114

Yeah, the old "I'm sorry you were offended" bit that seems to be so heavily favored Number23 Dec 2011 #178

When a thread begins the way this does and ends the way it does...there is no substance. vaberella Dec 2011 #186

wow, you really are having a hard time comprehending the OP. the part where Obama supporters can bettyellen Dec 2011 #236

If you're sorry, delete it. LoZoccolo Dec 2011 #74

What ProSense Dec 2011 #75

he explained EXACTLY what he was thinking clearly and yet you refuse to discuss the issues. bettyellen Dec 2011 #79

Well ProSense Dec 2011 #82

You continue to avoid the substance of the OP. That's interesting. bettyellen Dec 2011 #85

Do ProSense Dec 2011 #93

have at it. Ron Paul is picking up a lot of youth support because Dems have kept their heads down, bettyellen Dec 2011 #99

Wouldn't ProSense Dec 2011 #101

another diversion, shucks. I thought you were actually going to critique the OP for a change! bettyellen Dec 2011 #109

Silly you. That's all they ever have, diversions, and nothing more. A Simple Game Dec 2011 #242

I went back to see if you took your insults of Obama supporters out bigtree Dec 2011 #87

The problem with Obama's "defenders" SomethingFishy Dec 2011 #54

You ProSense Dec 2011 #63

Thank you SomethingFishy, you laid out the problem perfectly. canoeist52 Dec 2011 #131

Same here, SomethingFishy: I.Have.No.Choice. jtrockville Dec 2011 #252

I Agree With The OP Completely... ChiciB1 Dec 2011 #346

Well.Said. Octafish Feb 2012 #392

thank you newspeak Feb 2012 #394

Bingo. If the office of the President is as powerless as portrayed by his fans, Edweird Dec 2011 #58

...and few here are willing to admit the intellectual dishonesty the OP is refering too. bettyellen Dec 2011 #64

Here's ProSense Dec 2011 #66

refusing to discuss the OP's point... about simply wanting to have it both ways, is bullshit. bettyellen Dec 2011 #76

I ProSense Dec 2011 #78

I am an Obama supporter who is disgusted by the simple minded thought that it's 100% or 0.... bettyellen Dec 2011 #83

Well, ProSense Dec 2011 #90

the OP took the time to show big flaws in reasoning, you took time out to fling labels and dismiss. bettyellen Dec 2011 #95

Ah ProSense Dec 2011 #112

wow, you have still no idea what the OP said, or are pretending not to. Good luck with that! bettyellen Dec 2011 #118

No ProSense Dec 2011 #142

nope, try again bettyellen Dec 2011 #235

I prefer BORG hootinholler Dec 2011 #94

If you are truely that sensitive about name calling perhaps A Simple Game Dec 2011 #243

What is this weird habit you have of starting a sentence, then putting a quote in the middle, Maven Dec 2011 #259

straw man treestar Dec 2011 #111

Really? You're gonna go there? You realize that DU has a 'search' feature, don't you? Edweird Dec 2011 #116

Then you should search for posts where DU'ers claim Obama is powerless. emulatorloo Dec 2011 #136

The idea that the president is "powerless" is always a snarky retort treestar Dec 2011 #161

Ding! Ding! Ding! We have winner here, folks! closeupready Dec 2011 #301

Very thoughtful. "We must vote for the better candidate in this election" - Zorra Dec 2011 #84

This. I will vote for Obama, but work for those who are UNAFRAID to work towards my ideals. bettyellen Dec 2011 #88

So very well stated! hootinholler Dec 2011 #97

Times two... i_sometimes Dec 2011 #141

Perfectly stated Zorra suffragette Dec 2011 #147

Very elequently put. LiberalLovinLug Dec 2011 #148

Bravo, Zorra! bettyellen Dec 2011 #237

We can't treat politicians in our party as if they are above criticism Matariki Dec 2011 #89

And I don't understand why every disagreement along these lines is "squelching discussion." Robb Dec 2011 #92

People are alerting on each other like crazy for 'criticizing Obama' Matariki Dec 2011 #100

it's perectly fine to call supporters cultists, morally bankrupt, on and on and on, yet STILL people dionysus Dec 2011 #105

You lost me when you said I was "morally bankrupt" MineralMan Dec 2011 #91

Teddy Roosevelt said: Bluenorthwest Dec 2011 #117

Did you miss that the 'criticism' (aka insult) was directed at DU MEMBERS who are Obama supporters - MH1 Dec 2011 #121

The OP does not say 'supporters' much less 'all of Obama's supporters' Bluenorthwest Dec 2011 #156

I am a defender who is offended. Yup - happy now? I figured it was pretty obvious. MH1 Dec 2011 #173

Have you ever criticized an action of Obama's Pab Sungenis Dec 2011 #328

Maybe people disagree with you on those actions? treestar Dec 2011 #372

And speaking of 'dishonest tactic' - YOUR words - MH1 Dec 2011 #176

He didn't say all of Obama's supporters. Pab Sungenis Dec 2011 #329

That's fine, and I have no trouble with criticism. MineralMan Dec 2011 #138

Well then you misread the OP and also rewrite it. Bluenorthwest Dec 2011 #154

What condescending crap. I hope you didn't devote a lot of time to it. great white snark Dec 2011 #96

i hope you enjoy the next 5 years of the Obama presidency. dionysus Dec 2011 #104

Seems like Obama supporters only get to enjoy DU a few months DevonRex Dec 2011 #119

Yep. Welcome to the new DU. MH1 Dec 2011 #123

The "community standards" appear to be that we're a lower caste. DevonRex Dec 2011 #124

wow, do you ever adress the issues, or is all about you you you? bettyellen Dec 2011 #127

lol La Lioness Priyanka Dec 2011 #132

lol... i_sometimes Dec 2011 #144

So ProSense Dec 2011 #162

Was this whole meant to attack you? So he thought he'd be BETTER off DevonRex Dec 2011 #171

Dishonest at best. i_sometimes Dec 2011 #362

Welcome to DU... SidDithers Dec 2011 #223

Yes, I will and thank you. i_sometimes Dec 2011 #363

Perhaps it is time for you to come to the realisation sibelian Dec 2011 #181

I don't care I'd they do or don't. DevonRex Dec 2011 #185

I have already posted a response to you on this subject in "meta" sibelian Dec 2011 #202

did it ever occur to you...that...it isn't about you? nashville_brook Dec 2011 #277

Wow, you are just begging for a thread titled ... frazzled Dec 2011 #129

I think this raises a good point quinnox Dec 2011 #130

And the haters don't threaten to not vote? great white snark Dec 2011 #134

yes it does quinnox Dec 2011 #135

Well, I'm glad you were able to discern a point out of that. great white snark Dec 2011 #139

You seem to think reminders that there are three branches of government emulatorloo Dec 2011 #133

Amen. There are people who need to take a civics class. Seriously. n/t vaberella Dec 2011 #191

'Obama defenders' where the fuck am i? spanone Dec 2011 #140

Why do you think "the veto pen" gives the President much leverage at all? Why would Republicans care BzaDem Dec 2011 #143

Imagine the mess the country would be in had the POTUS done treestar Dec 2011 #157

If a person WANTS to be offended, they will be. dorksied Dec 2011 #145

So. ElboRuum Dec 2011 #150

I respectfully disagree angrychair Dec 2011 #169

I'm not sure what to make of posts like this. gulliver Dec 2011 #149

Then I will try to make it clearer jpgray Dec 2011 #163

Why do you want 4 more years of this? Marnie Dec 2011 #165

I won't speak for the poster, but I would assume most people would greatly prefer 4 more years BzaDem Dec 2011 #168

Hmmm? ProSense Dec 2011 #200

Yes, Obama has done some evil things. Pab Sungenis Dec 2011 #330

you present a cogent and forceful argument here and in the OP -- those who refuse to hear nashville_brook Dec 2011 #276

Your post was the best thing about this thread Number23 Dec 2011 #179

Well, this is a fun thread. progressoid Dec 2011 #151

The POTUS has the ultimate weapon, the veto. Marnie Dec 2011 #164

Obama better jbpdx Dec 2011 #166

If by "many" you mean Estevan Dec 2011 #167

The 21% is how many he's lost completely. Pab Sungenis Dec 2011 #332

If only I had a list of all the people who rec'd this trash they would go on my IGNORE list. vaberella Dec 2011 #180

You have a list. Just click the square above the rec button. MH1 Dec 2011 #183

Thanks. n/t vaberella Dec 2011 #192

You DO have a list of everyone who Recc's a post Vanje Dec 2011 #184

Thanks. Your listed as one of the people who recc'd this. n/T vaberella Dec 2011 #193

Well sure. But shouldnt stop me from being helpful Vanje Dec 2011 #195

its already been sent to jury and the verdict was let it stand quinnox Dec 2011 #194

Looks like juries are trying Cameron27 Dec 2011 #201

Do you have a link to Skinner's comment in Meta? Tx4obama Dec 2011 #272

He's commented a few times in the same meta thread... Cameron27 Dec 2011 #283

Thanks again :) n/t Tx4obama Dec 2011 #286

get the money out of politics. stonecutter357 Dec 2011 #357

If ever there was a thread that needed to be unrec'd...nt SidDithers Dec 2011 #206

........... Angry Dragon Dec 2011 #217

Poor Sid Vanje Dec 2011 #274

Hey, you made it over... SidDithers Dec 2011 #280

Yes, Indeed. Vanje Dec 2011 #282

A lot of sites have thumbs up and thumbs down - separated. tabatha Dec 2011 #294

That's funny--I thought many were left cold because they're Republicans, idiots, or worse... TreasonousBastard Dec 2011 #210

I want to rec this thread, but "morally bankrupt and contemptible" leaves me feeling cold. DRoseDARs Dec 2011 #218

Because there's not a dime's worth of difference between George Bush and Al Gore greenman3610 Dec 2011 #234

DING! DING! DING! Remember 84% of progressives approve of President Obama. mikekohr Dec 2011 #245

I'm not an Obama defender. Texasgal Dec 2011 #244

"They are morally bankrupt and contemptible regarding" tabatha Dec 2011 #247

"the better candidate will resemble Huntsman or Romney before too many elections" Bolo Boffin Dec 2011 #248

"What progressive goals would a Huntsman or a Romney advance us towards better than Obama?" Pab Sungenis Dec 2011 #335

"Obama is to the right of Bob Dole on many core issues." You're picking the "core" issues, right? Bolo Boffin Dec 2011 #339

If anything, it is posts like this that leave ME cold. nt BlueMTexpat Dec 2011 #251

"not only in terms of action but rhetoric" napoleon_in_rags Dec 2011 #264

That's some high-grade bullshit right there. The Doctor. Dec 2011 #271

Well, that sucks. Wait Wut Dec 2011 #275

+ infinity JTFrog Dec 2011 #345

Well said, jpgray. REC. nt bertman Dec 2011 #293

If it's such a "powerless office" how come so many millions are spent to get to it? begin_within Dec 2011 #296

The OP is delusional in thinking anyone has suggested the President is powerless. vaberella Dec 2011 #324

Isn't a broad attack on a segment of DUers a TOS violation? nt stevenleser Dec 2011 #297

you'd think so, but a jury is letting it stand bigtree Dec 2011 #304

Not any longer, it would seem. Ikonoklast Dec 2011 #314

Thank you sellitman Dec 2011 #315

Way to strike a nerve! JVS Dec 2011 #316

Aside from being nothing more than an opportunity to insult those whom you either mischaracterize patrice Dec 2011 #321

That was a long essay, are you Nance Greggs opposite? No matter how you try to spin it, akbacchus_BC Dec 2011 #322

The goal is not to remove Obama from the Oval Office Pab Sungenis Dec 2011 #327

He controls his advisers and controls his veto pen.... vi5 Dec 2011 #325

His critics seem to think him a magical beast, like a unicorn or wizard, Scootaloo Dec 2011 #333

His defenders seem to think is is many things other than the anti equality dogma Bluenorthwest Dec 2011 #334

Sanctity my ass Scootaloo Dec 2011 #338

amen scootaloo well said! leftyohiolib Dec 2011 #342

Specifics please cyberspirit Dec 2011 #337

maybe people will go out and vote this time leftyohiolib Dec 2011 #341

Really, really Le Taz Hot Dec 2011 #343

Nothing compared to how his usual critics make many feel. JTFrog Dec 2011 #344

As I've said before, this isn't about who will be President in 2013. Pab Sungenis Dec 2011 #347

We need him to continue doing exactly what he's been doing. JTFrog Dec 2011 #349

While caving to the Republicans left and right Pab Sungenis Dec 2011 #350

"The charges are familiar" JTFrog Dec 2011 #352

Again, I don't deny he's done good Pab Sungenis Dec 2011 #355

I'm glad you can see the good. JTFrog Dec 2011 #358

Have been thinking about what this & a few other things, lately, mean about DU3. patrice Dec 2011 #359

This OP has left me cold. Swede Dec 2011 #371

Re-reading this, you know, the presidency was meant to be "weak." treestar Dec 2011 #374

I have the same ideals I had before Obama Marrah_G Dec 2011 #375

There will always be those Puzzledtraveller Dec 2011 #376

Almost as dangerous as JNelson6563 Feb 2012 #383

How did this come back to page 2 today? Does DU 3 have a blind kick feature? JVS Feb 2012 #382

Kick Better Believe It Feb 2012 #384

Post #381 above was the kicker... SidDithers Feb 2012 #401

Weird. I was able to see 381 after logging out and saw it JVS Feb 2012 #403

I won't forget the "They are(Obama supporters), morally bankrupt and contemptible.", remark NNN0LHI Feb 2012 #385

I won't forget it either. Ever. Or who said it. And that Admin condoned leaving this post alone. DevonRex Feb 2012 #405

Verbosity always leaves me cold. aquart Feb 2012 #388

You know what leaves me cold? jpgray Feb 2012 #417

I think the Democratic Party is still liberal, progressive and vibrant.... Evasporque Feb 2012 #393

Purity and perfection don't exist anywhere in reality Proud Liberal Dem Feb 2012 #396

Post removed Post removed Feb 2012 #397

Careful doling out life lessons from a high horse. AtomicKitten Feb 2012 #402

Wow. This is like the thread that won't die. n/t renie408 Feb 2012 #406

To all those who recced this: DevonRex Feb 2012 #408

meta fly-paper AtomicKitten Feb 2012 #409

Post removed Post removed Feb 2012 #412

The above post was DevonRex Feb 2012 #415

I've Been Here a While and jpgray has always been pretty even-handed fascisthunter Feb 2012 #410

So it's okay by the jury to namecall now?....("addicts"; "contemptible"; "morally bankrupt")? Tarheel_Dem Feb 2012 #414

K&R woo me with science Feb 2012 #416