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DanTex

(20,709 posts)
Sat Nov 23, 2013, 12:01 PM Nov 2013

Should we really give the whole country a pass on reason when it comes to JFK conspiracies? [View all]

I like to think of liberals and DUers as more rational and evidence-based than the average person. Most of us would scoff at media reports saying that there are "conflicting views on global warming." Yes, there are conflicting views, but there is also evidence, and if you look at in a scientific manner, then one of the views proves to be correct and the other proves to be incorrect.

Who killed JFK is far less important than whether global warming is real, so maybe it's OK to designate this as one area where everyone can release any latent desire to entertain wild and irrational speculation. Still, it's a little disconcerting that a large percentage even of liberals are so willing to give up on reason when the conclusions don't fit their worldview.

Part of it is due to the fact that most people just haven't looked at the facts very carefully (which is fine). The media hasn't exactly helped here, portraying JFK conspiracy theorists as valiant rebels who refuse to drink the official kool-aid (e.g. Oliver Stone). Of the 70% of Americans that don't believe that Oswald alone shot JFK, I suspect most don't know that Oswald's rifle and fingerprints were found at the TSBD, that ballistics matched the bullets to his rifle, that he alone among all TSBD employees fled the scene after the shooting, and that later he shot and killed a police officer who tried to question him (an event with eyewitnesses). How many are aware that the medical examination conclusively determined that both wounds to JFK were from behind, a finding that was unanimously supported by fifteen different pathologists in four different subsequent investigations that reviewed the autopsy evidence? On the other hand, they've all probably heard about "magic bullets" and had the Zapruder film narrated to them by Kevin Costner, as JFK's head snaps "back and to the left".

So there's the excuse of ignorance, although it gets a bit uncomfortably close to "I'm not sure I buy the whole global warming story, I know some scientists say so, but I've also heard about sunspots changing the temperature, and also that it's really water vapor and not CO2..."

And then there's the fact that it's the "official story" that "they" want us to believe. But again, this is uncomfortably close to right-wingers who reject the IPCC climate reports because the IPCC is an "official" scientific body organized by (gasp!) the United Nations.

The author of this highly recced Esquire article proudly proclaims that he "I stopped believing in the Warren Commission even before it was put together". Really? Skepticism and suspicion of those in power are good things, but not when they trump reason. Being extra skeptical of a government inquiry into a politically sensitive event like this is warranted, but not to the point where you ignore all the evidence and simply conclude that the very fact that the Warren Commission is a government commission proves they must be wrong.

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good post treestar Nov 2013 #1
My goodness, aren't the Authoritarians out in force this morning? BlueStreak Nov 2013 #71
What do the Authoritarians have to do with the CT theories on the JFK assassination? treestar Nov 2013 #72
This thread is littered with people hurling insults at anybody who refuses to fall right in line BlueStreak Nov 2013 #73
Yep, the CIA whacked him. I believe Dick Gregory. nt valerief Nov 2013 #2
The pattern of events renders the forensic "evidence" ridiculous ucrdem Nov 2013 #3
Am I the only one reading this and getting the message that wanting a little ScreamingMeemie Nov 2013 #4
Well said. LuvNewcastle Nov 2013 #6
I don't think that's a fair characterization of the OP. DanTex Nov 2013 #7
I will admit that the "I stopped believing..." shows an inherent mistrust of Government explanations ScreamingMeemie Nov 2013 #12
This has nothing to do with hiding threads that bother me. DanTex Nov 2013 #21
There isn't an "apparent suspension of reason." ScreamingMeemie Nov 2013 #24
Yes, there is. DanTex Nov 2013 #30
DU rec... SidDithers Nov 2013 #5
If I had another rec to give to Pierce, I would. WorseBeforeBetter Nov 2013 #8
But we can evaluate the evidence for JFK's assassination ourselves cpwm17 Nov 2013 #22
And you are fine with all the evidence that the CIA let you see. Why are 1,000 pages of "evidence" rhett o rick Nov 2013 #93
We convict on the evidence that we have cpwm17 Nov 2013 #96
Would you care to name one major news event in your lifetime Big Blue Marble Nov 2013 #9
Just one example, I think the EPA is right about climate change. DanTex Nov 2013 #13
The EPA's view is strongly supported by a growing body Big Blue Marble Nov 2013 #18
Look, you asked for an example of something the government got right, and I provided. DanTex Nov 2013 #23
What I asked for was an example of a news event. Big Blue Marble Nov 2013 #28
OK.... DanTex Nov 2013 #35
I would mostly agree. Big Blue Marble Nov 2013 #43
You missed the point. DanTex Nov 2013 #50
You make assumptions about me that are incorrect. Big Blue Marble Nov 2013 #58
Your views are what they are, and I don't hope to change them. DanTex Nov 2013 #61
You miss my point. Big Blue Marble Nov 2013 #65
I don't think I did. DanTex Nov 2013 #68
Of course I would love to agree with you that liberals are more rational. Big Blue Marble Nov 2013 #74
Well, I certainly think some people/groups are more rational than others. DanTex Nov 2013 #78
Didn't happen in the 60's; doesn't count Scootaloo Nov 2013 #44
Since the government lies all the time, why isn't the EPA treestar Nov 2013 #81
The jump from "the government isn't telling everything" to "I know all the answers!" is a long one Scootaloo Nov 2013 #41
Of course, there are ridiculous outliers that drive these stories for fun and profit. Big Blue Marble Nov 2013 #52
Another "obey our authority" post. Thanks but sometimes TBF Nov 2013 #10
Oswald's being the lone shooter doesn't wercal Nov 2013 #11
You mean you don't think 9/11 was 19 lone nuts? former9thward Nov 2013 #15
The difference, of course, being that there is evidence linking the 9/11 murderers DanTex Nov 2013 #17
No, it does not. DanTex Nov 2013 #16
You have put "facts" in your OP that are not facts at all. former9thward Nov 2013 #14
Actually you discredit liberals with that kind of nonsense. duffyduff Nov 2013 #27
I on the side of truth. former9thward Nov 2013 #34
That's what Allen Dulles and the CIA want you to believe. Octafish Nov 2013 #19
The Oswald impersonation story? Really? DanTex Nov 2013 #25
Yes. CIA officer David Atlee Phillips said ''Oswald was never in Mexico City.'' Octafish Nov 2013 #33
Oswald wasn't "impersonated". Spider Jerusalem Nov 2013 #40
Here's the guy in the photograph... Octafish Nov 2013 #48
The guy in the photograph submitted with the visa application? No. Spider Jerusalem Nov 2013 #64
J Edgar Hoover was wrong. DanTex Nov 2013 #77
You mean the Allen Dulles who Kennedy replaced as CIA chief on November 29, 1961? longship Nov 2013 #37
Yes. Unlike patsies, perps have motives. nt ucrdem Nov 2013 #59
I don't understand your response. longship Nov 2013 #62
Remember Plato's cave? ucrdem Nov 2013 #69
That CIA ohheckyeah Nov 2013 #95
Belief in conspiracies has a long history in the United States duffyduff Nov 2013 #20
+1 The Midway Rebel Nov 2013 #46
It's better for them than booze. gulliver Nov 2013 #26
Belief in conspiracy is akin to religious belief. Spider Jerusalem Nov 2013 #29
It's the same mentality that affects creationists. duffyduff Nov 2013 #31
wtf is up with all these "anti-CT" posts? RussBLib Nov 2013 #32
Yes, of course, I'm part of a disinformation campaign. You got me. DanTex Nov 2013 #36
We Can Flip That Statement colsohlibgal Nov 2013 #38
Its human nature to believe in them. kydo Nov 2013 #39
Sure, why not? ZombieHorde Nov 2013 #42
The Warren Commission Report was crap. Warren Stupidity Nov 2013 #45
Why wouldn't "they" have someone waiting to kill Oswald in the book depository, Nye Bevan Nov 2013 #49
I have no idea. Perhaps you should ask them. Warren Stupidity Nov 2013 #80
Not to get into a big long debate here but... DanTex Nov 2013 #56
it looks like his head was blown out from the front dogindia Nov 2013 #47
The official story makes the exit wound the entrance wound, Warren Stupidity Nov 2013 #89
No, no, and no. Spider Jerusalem Nov 2013 #91
Here, watch in this video at around the 43 minute mark. The Midway Rebel Nov 2013 #94
Yes ConcernedCanuk Nov 2013 #51
The paranoid style is American as apple pie. The Midway Rebel Nov 2013 #53
Even congress concluded it was a likely conspiracy. grahamhgreen Nov 2013 #54
See here. DanTex Nov 2013 #57
I have lost count of how many times the faulty HSCA findings are posited as fact at DU. The Midway Rebel Nov 2013 #60
It's amazing, isn't it? zappaman Nov 2013 #63
Yes it is. DanTex Nov 2013 #66
Yeah, the personal attacks are what finally convinced me. The Midway Rebel Nov 2013 #67
That's what did it? zappaman Nov 2013 #75
Excellent post! frogmarch Nov 2013 #55
Discredit Tactics colsohlibgal Nov 2013 #70
The way I see it... kentuck Nov 2013 #76
A lot of Americans have strong reasons not to completely trust the offical versions of anything Fumesucker Nov 2013 #79
DU can't even agree on who killed Kennedy. Drunken Irishman Nov 2013 #82
ALL of them did it! zappaman Nov 2013 #84
It would be interesting to have a breakdown Blue_In_AK Nov 2013 #83
I have never been big on the whole conspiracy thing.... renie408 Nov 2013 #85
I saw that documentary. DanTex Nov 2013 #92
I don't subscribe to any particular conspiracy theory... hlthe2b Nov 2013 #86
"We" give them a pass LWolf Nov 2013 #87
Much like the Bible said it, I believe it, that settles it... kentuck Nov 2013 #88
Evidence presented and Reason leads to something other than a lone gunman... kickysnana Nov 2013 #90
+100 for humor value BootinUp Nov 2013 #97
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