General Discussion

Drunken Irishman

(34,857 posts)

448. Why does porn always devalue into a debate over women's rights?

Sat Nov 23, 2013, 04:32 PM

Nov 2013

There is straight porn for women, lesbian porn for women and gay porn for men. What's the difference?

There are a lot of gay fetish websites out there - from twinks to leather to, yes, rape porn. And? Where are the moralists when it comes to that - do they assume it leads to male-on-male violence?

It just is always interesting that porn objectifies women ... but not all porn deals with women. A great deal of it, A LOT OF IT, is targeted toward either straight women looking at men (Play Girl) or gay men wanting to look at gay men. There are millions of gay porn websites out there - millions of photos from scat to S&M to incest that involve solely men. Are we going to rally against that too or are we only going to hate on straight porn for men?

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Liberals and violent porn and rape simulation [View all] Tumbulu Nov 2013 OP

"who consents to being tortured?" ForgoTheConsequence Nov 2013 #1

/end thread Egnever Nov 2013 #2

said it all BainsBane Nov 2013 #4

It's not just about women. ForgoTheConsequence Nov 2013 #10

Rape is my business BainsBane Nov 2013 #17

Actually, if the rape isn't real and it is between consenting adults it is not your business. Kurska Nov 2013 #21

Pretend murder and drug taking is a really weak ass argument. moxybug Nov 2013 #140

Can *you* provide a definitive answer? Orrex Nov 2013 #198

Sure. moxybug Nov 2013 #288

Well, sort of Orrex Nov 2013 #312

what you want to outlaw oral sex. loli phabay Nov 2013 #239

Certainly not moxybug Nov 2013 #293

Is it forcible oral sex.... AgingAmerican Nov 2013 #472

Wait a second here, you seem to arguing that extreme forms of sexuality should be banned Kurska Nov 2013 #269

No moxybug Nov 2013 #289

you are wrong there! Stargazer99 Nov 2013 #243

What you think in your head is my business and I'll throw you in jail if I don't like it. Kurska Nov 2013 #270

Yes, I agree, that is part of the point Tumbulu Nov 2013 #482

Exactly. What on earth is wrong with someone that needs to watch that stuff to get off. smirkymonkey Dec 2013 #532

Message auto-removed Name removed Nov 2013 #381

If this is all about the harm to women, I'm a gay man with a consenting gay partner Kurska Nov 2013 #14

It isn't about sexuality or sex BainsBane Nov 2013 #22

If the ban was only on COMMERCIAL production of rape porn. Kurska Nov 2013 #49

Looking forward to a response. BB? nt Bonobo Nov 2013 #56

If by things I find objectionable you mean slavery and rape, yes BainsBane Nov 2013 #59

That's called ducking a question. Bonobo Nov 2013 #64

+1000 Katashi_itto Nov 2013 #127

Nope. I get it. It's about consent, and the identity that comes from entitlement ancianita Nov 2013 #166

she did answer the question. Tuesday Afternoon Nov 2013 #201

So you admit you want to ban some fiction based on the content of that fiction Kurska Nov 2013 #66

False BainsBane Nov 2013 #72

You have to be kidding me. Kurska Nov 2013 #74

the law makes illegal possession of already illegal porn BainsBane Nov 2013 #85

And... that porn that was already illegal includes consensual depiction of simulated criminality. Kurska Nov 2013 #87

Well you clearly consider yourself a British legal scholar BainsBane Nov 2013 #91

And I am asking you Tumbulu Nov 2013 #484

I don't think that telling women *and only women* what they should do "for their own good" lumberjack_jeff Nov 2013 #492

I don't think that protecting people from harm Tumbulu Nov 2013 #498

I want a government that keeps out of my bed room Kurska Nov 2013 #495

Can you tell me why you think that your private life should be protected Tumbulu Nov 2013 #497

My private sexual life causes no harm or lack of protection for women. Kurska Nov 2013 #505

I do not get your point at all Tumbulu Nov 2013 #506

I like how you completely don't include the "consensual" bit in that question. Kurska Nov 2013 #508

So how does one tell the difference Tumbulu Nov 2013 #511

Our society is somehow able to differniate between real and fake murders everyday. Kurska Nov 2013 #514

It is not possible to care about workers Tumbulu Nov 2013 #529

"If by things I find objectionable you mean slavery and rape," No I don't mean that Kurska Nov 2013 #73

Not if there really is consent BainsBane Nov 2013 #77

The law makes it a crime to possess porn that has rape in it, whether that rape is real or not. Kurska Nov 2013 #82

How much have you read? BainsBane Nov 2013 #89

By that logic, you would also ban BDSM because it increases propensity for sadism. Bonobo Nov 2013 #92

There never was a start to the rope Major Nikon Nov 2013 #111

Good point. Bonobo Nov 2013 #113

Par for the course Major Nikon Nov 2013 #118

Bravo! Katashi_itto Nov 2013 #177

Thank you lillypaddle Nov 2013 #240

+1 booley Nov 2013 #370

"I myself have no problem banning all rape porn." FINALLY Kurska Nov 2013 #94

You clearly don't know what fiction is BainsBane Nov 2013 #96

Christ you're good at making up arguments that you can argue against. EOTE Nov 2013 #142

Most people don't proslytize for others, they do so for themselves. nt rrneck Nov 2013 #173

Then someone is in desperate need of convincing. EOTE Nov 2013 #178

It's far from exhausting. rrneck Nov 2013 #196

Porn is fiction. nt rrneck Nov 2013 #172

That sentence is mathematically incorrect therefore a falsehood. Tuesday Afternoon Nov 2013 #199

There was no math in it. rrneck Nov 2013 #207

Is means equal to. Porn is not equal to fiction. Unless you are pulling a Bill Clinton - Tuesday Afternoon Nov 2013 #219

Of course porn is fiction. It's bad fiction, but it's fiction. rrneck Nov 2013 #245

rrneck, you are smarter than this - Tuesday Afternoon Nov 2013 #250

Sure they are. rrneck Nov 2013 #260

I thought the Blair Witch Project was stupid and boring. and, just how many Rates of Porn are there? Tuesday Afternoon Nov 2013 #264

The "rates" of any art form are as unlimited as the human imagination. rrneck Nov 2013 #276

I think this discussion has gone beyond a subthread for the OP. Tuesday Afternoon Nov 2013 #278

I don't just think about it. I live it. ntt rrneck Nov 2013 #301

then you understand what I am saying. -- Tuesday Afternoon Nov 2013 #303

It's all art in one form or another. rrneck Nov 2013 #315

"Porn is not fiction." Kurska Nov 2013 #210

that is also an invalid statement. Tuesday Afternoon Nov 2013 #222

Tell me, porn can have a story right? Kurska Nov 2013 #227

Wait. What? Orrex Nov 2013 #217

I am pretty much in agreement with what you are saying, Orrex. Tuesday Afternoon Nov 2013 #232

Thank you--I confess that I initially missed your point Orrex Nov 2013 #233

exactly! Tuesday Afternoon Nov 2013 #236

So if rape porn does have a story (no reason it can't and I'm sure it often does) Kurska Nov 2013 #287

are you trying to put words in my mouth? I have never said anythihng about banning Tuesday Afternoon Nov 2013 #290

Producers bill it as being real BainsBane Nov 2013 #351

So what if they bill it as being real? Does that make it real? Orrex Nov 2013 #377

It it is advertised as real gollygee Nov 2013 #454

You are missing the entire point of the OP. smirkymonkey Dec 2013 #533

That is an interesting question. So if it's not commercial and you happen across a video cui bono Nov 2013 #102

Do you think you yourself should be sent to jail for watching that video? Silent3 Nov 2013 #356

Do you think you have the right to get off on a real live rape being committed on a victim? seabeyond Nov 2013 #365

No, but I'm dying to hear how that question isn't a wild non-sequitur to what I said. n/t Silent3 Nov 2013 #380

No. And honestly I doubt it was anything near what they're talking about being illegal anyway. cui bono Nov 2013 #462

Supporting something and not wanting it to be illegal are two different things. Silent3 Nov 2013 #464

I agree with that. cui bono Nov 2013 #490

I'd prosecute the crimes committed in the production of such videos... Silent3 Nov 2013 #504

I am concerned that violence against women is normalized Tumbulu Nov 2013 #483

+100000 JustAnotherGen Nov 2013 #100

Thank god you're here BainsBane Nov 2013 #103

It was too early this morning JustAnotherGen Nov 2013 #154

Exactly, what the hell is wrong with people if they need to watch images of women being raped and smirkymonkey Nov 2013 #523

That's a bit narrow. Blue_Adept Nov 2013 #530

Would you have a link to any of those studies? I'd like to have a look. Thanks. nt rrneck Nov 2013 #170

now this is a legitimate question and I also would be interested in the links. n/t Tuesday Afternoon Nov 2013 #279

+1000 smirkymonkey Nov 2013 #478

Message auto-removed Name removed Nov 2013 #374

Typical... Decaffeinated Nov 2013 #139

what kind of choice do slaves have? BainsBane Nov 2013 #141

You had to burn the village to save the village right? Decaffeinated Nov 2013 #144

Oh how liberal of you! Tumbulu Nov 2013 #485

That just magically makes it so? You should call Webster! Decaffeinated Nov 2013 #488

Freedom to hurt people for pleasure? Tumbulu Nov 2013 #491

According to you... Decaffeinated Nov 2013 #494

Oh I think this that you should think a little bit before trivializing Tumbulu Nov 2013 #496

I know people who work for Kink.com. They are not slaves. They are well-paid. Comrade Grumpy Nov 2013 #258

Because most rapes are not reported Tumbulu Nov 2013 #486

"Human beings with rights" also have the right to do what they want. lumberjack_jeff Nov 2013 #163

Not when the "right to do what they want" harms others. MadrasT Nov 2013 #167

Fair enough. lumberjack_jeff Nov 2013 #171

Well there you go, busting out facts and stuff Kurska Nov 2013 #215

Those rights include consenting to activities you do not like. (nt) jeff47 Nov 2013 #220

Your post assumes there are no men who get off on submitting themselves to torture from a woman Threedifferentones Nov 2013 #281

strawmen and choice BainsBane Nov 2013 #346

We don't really disagree actually, in fact you practically repeated me. Threedifferentones Nov 2013 #362

If you were going to make a homemade rape video with gf who did not want to do it, seabeyond Nov 2013 #367

If I made a homemade rape video of my GF, then presumably she would have me arrested with that proof Threedifferentones Nov 2013 #369

You simply show ignorance and dismissal to rape victims and spousal abuse. No surprise seabeyond Nov 2013 #373

You keep repeating yourself and not responding to others' points. Threedifferentones Nov 2013 #386

Again we see the fallacy of "consenting adults" that those who defend porn tell themselves BainsBane Nov 2013 #3

We're not just talking about women. ForgoTheConsequence Nov 2013 #7

"I shouldn't be able to do that because you don't like it?" Thats exactly what I'm hearing here too. Kurska Nov 2013 #11

No, but people are hurt and die BainsBane Nov 2013 #28

It isn't even commercialized half the time, do you really know nothing about this? Kurska Nov 2013 #35

The point is not that you CAN'T watch it. smirkymonkey Dec 2013 #534

Even the most sick and disgusting speech is protected. Kurska Dec 2013 #535

Yes, but the point of the OP was not about making it illegal or banning it, smirkymonkey Dec 2013 #536

This might come as a surprise to you, but people don't actually pick what they find arousing. Kurska Dec 2013 #537

What is deregulated freedom? The freedom to beat your kids because you love them? To ancianita Nov 2013 #203

Watch the wrong kind of fiction, get thrown in jail. Got it Kurska Nov 2013 #8

Firstly, we aren't talking about jail in the US BainsBane Nov 2013 #24

I'm not throwing people in jail for consuming FICTION. Not matter how nice the jails are. Kurska Nov 2013 #26

Have you read the British law? BainsBane Nov 2013 #33

I dunno, MAYBE ASK THE PEOPLE WHO MADE IT? Kurska Nov 2013 #54

so then, Just take them at their word...? Tuesday Afternoon Nov 2013 #216

Our society has had about a hundred years of differentiating between real and fake murder videos Kurska Nov 2013 #221

did you really ask that question? Tuesday Afternoon Nov 2013 #225

Yawn, you know excatly what I was saying. Kurska Nov 2013 #230

yawn. that you like to watch it over and over again ... tells me you are the one with Tuesday Afternoon Nov 2013 #294

I fail to see the problem with what I wrote. Kurska Nov 2013 #296

agreed. went back and re-read your post. point taken. Tuesday Afternoon Nov 2013 #299

What is it about you that finds women getting raped and brutalized such a turn on? smirkymonkey Nov 2013 #524

Rape, mutilation, and murder are illegal already. ForgoTheConsequence Nov 2013 #30

What an excellent post Tumbulu Nov 2013 #513

It's one thing if it's really between two consenting adults, adults who are actually in a cui bono Nov 2013 #83

People do softcore porn because of low self esteem and economic necessity as well... Hippo_Tron Nov 2013 #441

If you're telling people what kind of FICTION, what kind of NOT REAL stuff they can watch Kurska Nov 2013 #5

Exactly. NT Eric J in MN Nov 2013 #223

... I'm a gay man. I've consented many times to being "tortured" as you call it MANY times. sibelian Nov 2013 #6

I'm gay too, that is why I'm so disgusted by people seriously advocating making consensual behavior Kurska Nov 2013 #9

I'm not gay. ForgoTheConsequence Nov 2013 #13

Puritanism is exactly right Kurska Nov 2013 #15

It's frightening. ForgoTheConsequence Nov 2013 #20

Absolutely terrifying man, watching fascism masquerading as progress and liberation scares me. Kurska Nov 2013 #23

Agree! Katashi_itto Nov 2013 #129

It's not BDSM BainsBane Nov 2013 #27

"enslaved labor" ForgoTheConsequence Nov 2013 #32

Holy shit BainsBane Nov 2013 #39

All of that is illegal already....... ForgoTheConsequence Nov 2013 #43

This message was self-deleted by its author BainsBane Nov 2013 #65

Because some porn is made with enslaved people, all porn needs to be banned. Kurska Nov 2013 #41

Some massage parlors use slave labor too. ForgoTheConsequence Nov 2013 #48

Pretty much every human job throughout history has been performed by a slave at some point Kurska Nov 2013 #51

As does the pork industry BainsBane Nov 2013 #67

You're absolutely right, you buy you pork from people who are good people. Kurska Nov 2013 #68

Do you get your porn from good people? BainsBane Nov 2013 #71

Well for one, I know some of them n/t Kurska Nov 2013 #79

If you limit your consumption to people and companies you know BainsBane Nov 2013 #81

I've known good people who produced brutal violent, yet consenting porn for zero dollars. Kurska Nov 2013 #86

I think people should be able to associate with who they wish. ForgoTheConsequence Nov 2013 #37

In their defense, I think a lot of people just don't get it Hippo_Tron Nov 2013 #442

Amen, Sibelian. The bias against BDSM, the refusal to understand that it is a large anneboleyn Nov 2013 #204

CONSENT is the operative word here. Slaves and minors, by definition, can NOT give consent. Tuesday Afternoon Nov 2013 #295

The hatred is of women BainsBane Nov 2013 #12

So is male on male torture ok with you? ForgoTheConsequence Nov 2013 #18

Some people seem to think women need to be protected from their own bodies and sexuality. Kurska Nov 2013 #19

You aren't reading BainsBane Nov 2013 #25

My lord there is a million pieces of pretty brutal porn out there with perfectly consenting women. Kurska Nov 2013 #29

yes, but there is also porn that is the product of slavery BainsBane Nov 2013 #58

"There is no way to tell the difference." Uhh, yeah there is Kurska Nov 2013 #61

I think there are probably some ways to carefully consume porn BainsBane Nov 2013 #69

The 2nd wave of feminism ended because of exactly that Major Nikon Nov 2013 #145

How does a slave consent? BainsBane Nov 2013 #31

Child porn and slavery are already illegal. ForgoTheConsequence Nov 2013 #34

Yet porn using slave labor is widely consummed BainsBane Nov 2013 #60

Prosecute slave porn more. Throw the people who produce it into jail. Kurska Nov 2013 #70

are you talking about what couples make between themselves? BainsBane Nov 2013 #75

No you see, a couple can produce a video between themselves and then give it away for free. Kurska Nov 2013 #84

Pokemon products are produced with slave labor as well. Are you for banning Pokemon? EOTE Nov 2013 #151

I'm going to go out on a limb and say literally no one in this thread agrees with slave porn. Kurska Nov 2013 #45

It seems like you are conflating two related but distinct issues. Comrade Grumpy Nov 2013 #267

When was the last time you "consumed" a movie? last1standing Nov 2013 #402

I won't consume simulated rape porn, but I'll defend it as free expression. DisgustipatedinCA Nov 2013 #399

I value my life and those of other women BainsBane Nov 2013 #445

Porn of ALL KINDS presents a hatred of women... Hippo_Tron Nov 2013 #443

Truthfully, when it comes to softcore porn BainsBane Nov 2013 #444

Magazine covers also depict women as objects whose sole purpose is fulfillment of male fantasy... Hippo_Tron Nov 2013 #446

I don't like that either BainsBane Nov 2013 #447

We'll have to respectfully disagree on this one, I get where you're coming from Hippo_Tron Nov 2013 #456

I don't see it as about rough sex at all BainsBane Nov 2013 #461

Without knowing exactly what you are talking about, I can only generalize. Deep13 Nov 2013 #16

So it's a liberal position for women to have choice... Major Nikon Nov 2013 #36

+1 Joel thakkar Nov 2013 #38

that's what it all boils down to Niceguy1 Nov 2013 #40

Telling CONSENTING adults what they can and can't do is a far right position Major Nikon Nov 2013 #80

because some progressives Niceguy1 Nov 2013 #88

Who is consenting? BainsBane Nov 2013 #99

The actors who sign the release forms and cash the checks are consenting. n/t lumberjack_jeff Nov 2013 #165

So are the workers at Walmart. They are "consenting" too, but the wages and conditions suck. KittyWampus Nov 2013 #192

Yes, but they aren't demanding Wal-Mart be made illegal. jeff47 Nov 2013 #234

Tell us what choice enslaved women have BainsBane Nov 2013 #42

You don't get to take away civil liberties just because psychos find inspiration from them sometimes phleshdef Nov 2013 #527

How about the choice of Walmart workers going hungry this Thanksgiving? BainsBane Nov 2013 #46

So we should ban Walmart? ForgoTheConsequence Nov 2013 #53

In the US we aren't banning anything BainsBane Nov 2013 #63

How on earth do I not care? Kurska Nov 2013 #76

I'm all for porn workers unions and porn workers getting a living wage. Kurska Nov 2013 #57

You're all for it, yet you justify an industry which allows none of that. BainsBane Nov 2013 #62

I do, in fact, oppose thai rape farms. Kurska Nov 2013 #78

Well, surely you understand the problem regulating international labor generally, right? BainsBane Nov 2013 #93

So... ban Iphones? n/t Kurska Nov 2013 #95

No, again I'm talking about social consciousness BainsBane Nov 2013 #97

+1 Learning here. ancianita Nov 2013 #262

+100 Katashi_itto Nov 2013 #130

Exactly. lumberjack_jeff Nov 2013 #168

Pro choice with an asterisk Democat Nov 2013 #259

For me the concern is twofold. Deep13 Nov 2013 #305

I can understand your concerns Major Nikon Nov 2013 #331

I have no idea what the solution is. Deep13 Nov 2013 #403

You hit the nail on the head with that one. Vashta Nerada Nov 2013 #310

I'll pass on this flamebait... 99Forever Nov 2013 #44

Morally superior? Wanting to be spared rape? BainsBane Nov 2013 #47

You sure seem to think so. ForgoTheConsequence Nov 2013 #50

I seek to protect myself and others from rape BainsBane Nov 2013 #101

Who the hell said.. 99Forever Nov 2013 #116

This is about rape porn BainsBane Nov 2013 #117

Insofar as we are discussing porn with actual rape, there is no disagreement. Bonobo Nov 2013 #119

No! You can't call it BDSM! Major Nikon Nov 2013 #136

i wish the poster would just come out and say they dont care if theres consent they just want it loli phabay Nov 2013 #238

Lots of shit out there that offends me. 99Forever Nov 2013 #122

So it's all about what gets men off BainsBane Nov 2013 #134

Congratulations, that's your 1000th conflation between rape/killing and BDSM! You win a lollipop! EOTE Nov 2013 #152

+ a brazillion. opiate69 Nov 2013 #391

I guess if you have no valid line of reasoning... 99Forever Nov 2013 #384

To suppress free speech in the name of protecting women is dangerous and wrong Major Nikon Nov 2013 #148

No, it's just about porn. Any porn. Union Scribe Nov 2013 #169

No it isn't. The entire discussion began in response to the UK decision BainsBane Nov 2013 #337

Who are you to judge BainsBane Nov 2013 #121

I didn't say "liberals shouldn't ever judge," now did I? 99Forever Nov 2013 #125

So everyone but me? BainsBane Nov 2013 #133

I don't owe you "answers" to your out of line "questions." 99Forever Nov 2013 #383

LOL...that is not exactly what I would call a pass... renie408 Nov 2013 #107

Post removed Post removed Nov 2013 #52

Enslaved women and children can't consent either BainsBane Nov 2013 #109

What makes you think that everyone on the thread was a liberal. Right wingers mfcorey1 Nov 2013 #55

Having read the responses to this thread, Big Blue Marble Nov 2013 #440

I just realized this is the second crazy thread we've had about this in two days. Kurska Nov 2013 #90

Where do I place an order? In_The_Wind Nov 2013 #335

Faulty reasoning in OP. last1standing Nov 2013 #98

This message was self-deleted by its author seaglass Nov 2013 #110

You seriously don't know the difference? last1standing Nov 2013 #208

This message was self-deleted by its author seaglass Nov 2013 #242

You've seen it. It sounds like you didn't understand it. last1standing Nov 2013 #254

This message was self-deleted by its author seaglass Nov 2013 #266

As I said, it appears you do not understand. last1standing Nov 2013 #268

This message was self-deleted by its author seaglass Nov 2013 #273

LOL. You don't understand and refuse to learn. last1standing Nov 2013 #334

This message was self-deleted by its author seaglass Nov 2013 #341

I was very rude not to give you an answer that fit into your "worldview." last1standing Nov 2013 #344

This message was self-deleted by its author seaglass Nov 2013 #352

I'm sorry you can't handle a world where people don't follow your dictates. last1standing Nov 2013 #359

Who in the world defended torture of women for sexual gratification? ogradda Nov 2013 #104

Really, you missed it? BainsBane Nov 2013 #105

The topics are being blurred by people putting Fantasy orpupilofnature57 Nov 2013 #108

So the movies depicting rapes or violence are real? Katashi_itto Nov 2013 #131

Yes, and watching lions eat a human being is educational orpupilofnature57 Nov 2013 #455

It's certainly none of your business either way. Katashi_itto Nov 2013 #459

Hail you, and your defense of " Artistic Rape " Talk about abuse of Liberty orpupilofnature57 Nov 2013 #499

Whatever you say. Still doesnt change the 1st Amendment Katashi_itto Nov 2013 #500

I checked in 7 times on what is clearly MISANTHROPE orpupilofnature57 Nov 2013 #106

Hey...wait a minute! nt msanthrope Nov 2013 #123

NO NO I've read your posts, your msanthrope... orpupilofnature57 Nov 2013 #453

Long thread ahead!!! Dorian Gray Nov 2013 #112

I hear you. renie408 Nov 2013 #114

A woman who fantasizes about rape doesn't want to be raped, but a man that does, wants to rape? Bonobo Nov 2013 #115

women are good Niceguy1 Nov 2013 #149

That all depends on who's point of view you're reading. In_The_Wind Nov 2013 #336

A hit it and quit it OP. JaneyVee Nov 2013 #120

Oh, the vanilla....nt msanthrope Nov 2013 #124

love my vanilla, with topping of chocolate, strawberry and marshmallow. add some whip cream, nuts seabeyond Nov 2013 #126

Sea, the adults are not talking about ice cream. I'm not interested in engaging in playful msanthrope Nov 2013 #135

msanthrope, you threw out a jab. i countered. tell me about ... adults. nt seabeyond Nov 2013 #137

Indeed...I. appreciate your confirmation of the tag teaming. nt msanthrope Nov 2013 #143

really? create your own reality, dear? oh, and make sure you are the victim seabeyond Nov 2013 #147

Do not call me 'dear.' nt msanthrope Nov 2013 #159

what happened to this free speech you all are talking about. wowsers. nt seabeyond Nov 2013 #160

I thought you had no desire to participate? EOTE Nov 2013 #181

lol lo. you are cute eote. always have been, always will be seabeyond Nov 2013 #183

Awww, shucks. nt EOTE Nov 2013 #184

Indeed. The next time you harass Skinner about adding certain words to the TOS msanthrope Nov 2013 #190

so then, we should do away with the ToS? I really do not understand what you are saying here ... Tuesday Afternoon Nov 2013 #194

I happen to think the TOS is a work of genius as it stands. And I think msanthrope Nov 2013 #214

dear should be a no no word. bah hahahahah. hey woman, outta here. seabeyond Nov 2013 #206

uh oh. am i allowed to use woman? seabeyond Nov 2013 #209

Excellent. Then you should have no problem with men on this board addressing you as 'Dear.' msanthrope Nov 2013 #218

take it up with California Peggy who addresses everyone as Dear. Tuesday Afternoon Nov 2013 #228

California Peggy is sui generis. And she doesn't use it as an insult. nt msanthrope Nov 2013 #257

I really don't know if sea meant it as an insult but, you took it that way, I understand. Tuesday Afternoon Nov 2013 #280

again, as a lawyer, you know your argument fails. YOU say freedom of speech. YOU told me not to use seabeyond Nov 2013 #246

Freedom of speech applies to the government. It has nothing to do with you msanthrope Nov 2013 #261

ohhh, you got me.... seabeyond Nov 2013 #265

Gonna let you get back to the thread where you wonder if a 14-year old boy should be shown porn msanthrope Nov 2013 #274

o.k. seabeyond Nov 2013 #275

ROFLMAO -- It's been deleted! Systematic Chaos Nov 2013 #465

Oh yes...it has. nt msanthrope Nov 2013 #466

I think there is something wrong with people watching this type of porn itsrobert Nov 2013 #128

That sums this up perfectly Katashi_itto Nov 2013 #132

This message was self-deleted by its author seaglass Nov 2013 #146

So who is going to help them? Major Nikon Nov 2013 #153

This message was self-deleted by its author seaglass Nov 2013 #158

What you describe is now widely considered quackery Major Nikon Nov 2013 #161

This message was self-deleted by its author seaglass Nov 2013 #174

So Major Nikon Nov 2013 #182

This message was self-deleted by its author seaglass Nov 2013 #237

You're mixing and matching terminology Major Nikon Nov 2013 #256

This message was self-deleted by its author seaglass Nov 2013 #272

I never said the DSM believes it is quackery Major Nikon Nov 2013 #284

This message was self-deleted by its author seaglass Nov 2013 #291

Sadism and sexual sadism are not the same thing Major Nikon Nov 2013 #313

This message was self-deleted by its author seaglass Nov 2013 #326

Relevance comes to mind Major Nikon Nov 2013 #339

This message was self-deleted by its author seaglass Nov 2013 #353

I agree. laundry_queen Nov 2013 #179

You used the same comparison that came to my mind. Cutting. KittyWampus Nov 2013 #186

SSD requires lack of consent Major Nikon Nov 2013 #202

People who cut themselves do need help. Vashta Nerada Nov 2013 #224

I don't think it's normal. laundry_queen Nov 2013 #252

So, people who participate in BDSM need help? Vashta Nerada Nov 2013 #253

WTF does this have to do with gay people? laundry_queen Nov 2013 #300

I know, right?? BuddhaGirl Nov 2013 #422

lol, i gotta say the judgement then i dont judge made me guffaw loli phabay Nov 2013 #244

do you believe in ignoring sick people? Tuesday Afternoon Nov 2013 #282

Whaaaaaaa???? Rex Nov 2013 #138

Not everything is a "liberal" vs "conservative" argument... cbdo2007 Nov 2013 #150

One question I have is how anyone who consumes porn can call themselves a feminist. ancianita Nov 2013 #155

What about erotica? Can we consume that? nt msanthrope Nov 2013 #156

Don't know how it's defined. Probably, but in that industry, equal pay for equal work and all... ancianita Nov 2013 #162

Erotica is what you masturbate to. Porn is what other people use. nt msanthrope Nov 2013 #185

Are you suggesting that the porn industry is sexist against males? EOTE Nov 2013 #189

If I am,it's not that, but the industry does have a predominantly male market, so I'd ancianita Nov 2013 #405

Yes, that's exactly right. EOTE Nov 2013 #517

I haven't fought tirelessly against men in porn, that's for sure. Men as a group have 90% ancianita Nov 2013 #518

No, I don't go about specifically advocating for unionization of porn stars. EOTE Nov 2013 #519

Fair point that I was mistaken. Yet it's the exception in the economic scheme of pay for men/women. ancianita Nov 2013 #521

Yes. Vashta Nerada Nov 2013 #191

What. I'm being dimwitted? ancianita Nov 2013 #195

I don't know how it's a turn-on. Vashta Nerada Nov 2013 #211

Depends on the fictional consent part, doesn't it. Ripe for production abuse, no? Isn't the ancianita Nov 2013 #229

Yay! Time for pulling bullshit out of one's posterior!! jeff47 Nov 2013 #249

It's telling that people can't make an argument against consenting adult behavior WITHOUT dragging Warren DeMontague Nov 2013 #502

Come off your high horse DragonBorn Nov 2013 #285

Why's a question got to reveal I'm on some "high horse." Why can't it reveal that I'm trying ancianita Nov 2013 #306

This message was self-deleted by its author seaglass Nov 2013 #320

That has been an issue of 3rd wave Feminism One_Life_To_Give Nov 2013 #298

Only if your idea of feminism is one in which women are helpless beings. last1standing Nov 2013 #357

There are entire branches of feminism LadyHawkAZ Nov 2013 #397

Out of the park.... opiate69 Nov 2013 #400

Woot, there it is! +1000. nt. polly7 Nov 2013 #401

That other thread was too long Capt. Obvious Nov 2013 #157

Blockbusters are violence. Dr. Strange Nov 2013 #263

Long threads are emptiness Capt. Obvious Nov 2013 #277

And cleanliness is godliness. EOTE Nov 2013 #292

And you see beyond the happiness in slavery Capt. Obvious Nov 2013 #297

Liberalism and morality are two different things. rrneck Nov 2013 #164

Simple answer LittleBlue Nov 2013 #175

You really think that ALL porn is acting? you do realize that there is a whole set of Tuesday Afternoon Nov 2013 #286

Drinking is not healthy LittleBlue Nov 2013 #302

It's not liberal to throw people in jail for the type of fiction they read/watch/create. JVS Nov 2013 #176

Support the Klans right to say sick shit too One_Life_To_Give Nov 2013 #180

How convenient then that the Klan gollygee Nov 2013 #231

well its pretty much covered in the autoeroticism videos loli phabay Nov 2013 #247

"The ACLU does not support pornography. But we do oppose virtually all forms of censorship. " One_Life_To_Give Nov 2013 #271

If you're going to start a thread about it, at least educate yourself on the topic. Vashta Nerada Nov 2013 #187

Exactly. Dommes are very popular in bdsm and if they are professional they are well-paid. anneboleyn Nov 2013 #212

extremely well paid is an understatement. loli phabay Nov 2013 #248

What people don't understand ismnotwasm Nov 2013 #188

Well said. I'm learning a lot. ancianita Nov 2013 #197

I could make the same argument about furniture. jeff47 Nov 2013 #255

BSMD is not rape porn ismnotwasm Nov 2013 #304

In both cases, it appears that someone is being forced to do something. jeff47 Nov 2013 #327

"There are many, many other factors that have lead to the "decrease in rapes" " Major Nikon Nov 2013 #411

Yours is the only response expressing what is important. When you said: freshwest Dec 2013 #531

Short version: "WAY too much sex and violence in the movies and on TV. " Nye Bevan Nov 2013 #193

that is not a progressive vs. conservative issue as much as libertarian vs. conscience yurbud Nov 2013 #200

More like, my body my rules Kurska Nov 2013 #205

that kind of porn is a symptom of a problem not a cause yurbud Nov 2013 #213

it could also be a sign of a problem, I think - Tuesday Afternoon Nov 2013 #235

ok yurbud Nov 2013 #427

My concern about rape porn is that it can desensitize some people who watch it. hrmjustin Nov 2013 #226

As far as desensitization goes, LadyHawkAZ Nov 2013 #415

I am not sure the desnsitization has already happened when the person types the hrmjustin Nov 2013 #417

I'm curious why you would think that LadyHawkAZ Nov 2013 #419

If someone is curious and look it up they are not desensitized by it yet. hrmjustin Nov 2013 #421

I'd have to disagree with you LadyHawkAZ Nov 2013 #423

Ok well we disagree on this. hrmjustin Nov 2013 #424

I am with the OP and Bainsbane on this one... Tikki Nov 2013 #241

Thanks, this is really where I fear it leads Tumbulu Nov 2013 #407

I regard it as a desensitizing form of "entertainment" Scootaloo Nov 2013 #251

Wow. Very offensive to the entire BDSM community, in which domination "scenes" anneboleyn Nov 2013 #307

Do you get off on seeing someone attacked and raped? Scootaloo Nov 2013 #311

You should have trashed that thread as soon as you saw it like I did... Iggo Nov 2013 #283

Never come to San Francisco Prism Nov 2013 #308

I often come to SF Tumbulu Nov 2013 #408

Dore Alley would wreck some people in this thread Prism Nov 2013 #413

I do not see torture and rape as sexuality Tumbulu Nov 2013 #428

But they are a part of sexuality Prism Nov 2013 #432

Am I right, you think that simply because hurting women fits into someone's idea of sex Tumbulu Nov 2013 #433

This is what I mean by lack of knowledge Prism Nov 2013 #434

It is my business that women are raped for profit Tumbulu Nov 2013 #435

The rape apologists in this thread make me sick! KitSileya Nov 2013 #309

Nobody in this thread is defending rape. Vashta Nerada Nov 2013 #314

Oh, I understand it just fine. KitSileya Nov 2013 #316

How do we know actors in R-rated movies consented to taking their clothes off? Vashta Nerada Nov 2013 #317

We don't, do we? KitSileya Nov 2013 #323

Please present some sort of evidence that there's a mythology Nov 2013 #414

Here is how you know if actors are consenting mwrguy Nov 2013 #358

So, you say we should ban all rape porn because we can't verify if it is real or not. Kurska Nov 2013 #318

Well, when the murder victim walks off the stage afterwards, it's pretty easy to most of us, KitSileya Nov 2013 #319

It'snot hard to prove it's consensual. rrneck Nov 2013 #321

Yeah, because that sure is a way to prove anyone wasn't pressured or forced. KitSileya Nov 2013 #322

A contract signed under duress is null and void. rrneck Nov 2013 #324

Yes, it would be, wouldn't it. KitSileya Nov 2013 #325

They may be skeezy and creepy rrneck Nov 2013 #330

It's not only skeezy and creepy. KitSileya Nov 2013 #333

If it's indistinguishable it's impossible to prosecute. rrneck Nov 2013 #338

Apparently British lawmakers have decided that fiction or not doesn't matter. KitSileya Nov 2013 #343

That doesn't make them right. rrneck Nov 2013 #349

According to Cameron, they want to make it illegal to possess porn that cannot legally be sold KitSileya Nov 2013 #355

You're right on that score. rrneck Nov 2013 #364

Thanks for the civil discussion. KitSileya Nov 2013 #368

Always a pleasure. rrneck Nov 2013 #378

Exactly. But I'd speculate that suits for either performance or enforcement in either the pimp or ancianita Nov 2013 #328

Good luck with that one. Vashta Nerada Nov 2013 #347

Me too and thank you for the excellent analogy Tumbulu Nov 2013 #390

its not real bowens43 Nov 2013 #329

and a lot of it is. now what? nt seabeyond Nov 2013 #342

Go after those making the real stuff. EOTE Nov 2013 #350

It is not that simple which you have been educated and abviously recognize. But, you cavalierly seabeyond Nov 2013 #360

Of course it's that simple. EOTE Nov 2013 #361

But many on here are willing to not care so much if it is real or not as long as it is real enough seabeyond Nov 2013 #371

That reply has nothing to do with what I posted. EOTE Nov 2013 #516

being a liberal is not always convenient. aikoaiko Nov 2013 #332

Just some thoughts from someone who works for a place that makes "rape porn". HappyinLA Nov 2013 #340

welcome to du gopiscrap Nov 2013 #345

Thanks for making it clear for us. Vashta Nerada Nov 2013 #348

One question. Why do you support sex slavery? EOTE Nov 2013 #354

Surely you will acknowledge that not all porn is made that way BainsBane Nov 2013 #363

So basically... Blue_Adept Nov 2013 #375

No, not all is made that way HappyinLA Nov 2013 #388

This makes the most sense in this thread Major Nikon Nov 2013 #420

And so do you see yourself as a liberal or a libertarian? Tumbulu Nov 2013 #393

So what you're saying is... Blue_Adept Nov 2013 #395

I am sorry, I do not understand your post Tumbulu Nov 2013 #404

Very interesting. Welcome! nt Demo_Chris Nov 2013 #398

Oh great, another one of these booley Nov 2013 #366

A great thread Blue_Adept Nov 2013 #372

I am so sick of this crap. Trashing thread. liberal_at_heart Nov 2013 #376

You seem to give women very little or no credit TroglodyteScholar Nov 2013 #379

There is nothing false about my assumption that torturing people Tumbulu Nov 2013 #392

So in the case of a woman who willingly participates in something you don't like... TroglodyteScholar Nov 2013 #396

It sounds like a libertarian position, not a liberal position Tumbulu Nov 2013 #406

How does one's private sexual behavior become "advocating" in your mind? TroglodyteScholar Nov 2013 #409

My post and this discussion is not about what people do in private Tumbulu Nov 2013 #429

It must be hard on the knees jumping to those sorts of conclusions mythology Nov 2013 #418

I know of no one into BDSM and am not even sure what it is Tumbulu Nov 2013 #430

as another postet said you need to join a site like fetlife so you can see how common kink is loli phabay Nov 2013 #476

"I have yet to meet one who wants to be hurt, beaten or raped or have anything violent done to them" opiate69 Nov 2013 #425

its tempting to make an account and walk some posters through the site so they can see loli phabay Nov 2013 #477

Because people don't truly understand what porn is all about. duffyduff Nov 2013 #382

I think many do understand what consent means booley Nov 2013 #385

That's too blunt an instrument Orrex Nov 2013 #387

So true, nt Tumbulu Nov 2013 #394

Financial pressures to work in fast food or retail isn't "consent" either. Vashta Nerada Nov 2013 #412

So, you think working at McDonalds Tumbulu Nov 2013 #436

It is metaphorically "rape". Vashta Nerada Nov 2013 #437

I have had demeaning jobs, plenty of them Tumbulu Nov 2013 #438

It's highly offensive that you would think there's no comparison. Vashta Nerada Nov 2013 #439

Sorry, you lost your credibility with this line Tumbulu Nov 2013 #450

Rape porn is creepy CFLDem Nov 2013 #389

I agree. Jamastiene Nov 2013 #410

I think you are having trouble distinguishing reality from theater XRubicon Nov 2013 #416

Sorry, violence against women for pleasure Tumbulu Nov 2013 #431

Banning simulation is akin to thought crime TransitJohn Nov 2013 #426

You have no concern over sex slaves, or the effect that Tumbulu Nov 2013 #469

Uh, what? TransitJohn Nov 2013 #479

Uhm, let me introduce you to the real world Tumbulu Nov 2013 #481

Why does porn always devalue into a debate over women's rights? Drunken Irishman Nov 2013 #448

This discussion is about how I get the idea that members of DU Tumbulu Nov 2013 #449

Why do you continue to focus on women? Drunken Irishman Nov 2013 #451

You're tilting at a windmill with that poster. Vashta Nerada Nov 2013 #452

I do not watch porn at all, so all these genres are unfamiliar to me Tumbulu Nov 2013 #457

If you don't watch it, then what concern is it to you? Drunken Irishman Nov 2013 #458

How about the fact that it normalizes violent behavior ? Tumbulu Nov 2013 #467

you know i know nothing about baseball, as i dont watch it loli phabay Nov 2013 #475

One of my alltime favorite films is A Clockwork Orange. Quantess Nov 2013 #460

This is about my quest to understand if this DU approval of violent rape porn Tumbulu Nov 2013 #468

I don't like porn. NaturalHigh Nov 2013 #463

But is it a liberal position to not care about the effect of violent rape porn on the Tumbulu Nov 2013 #470

Elsewhere on this site you have someone posting a study that defines blowjobs as "violent acts" Warren DeMontague Nov 2013 #471

+1 NaturalHigh Nov 2013 #473

This message was self-deleted by its author seaglass Nov 2013 #480

My agenda is to understand how someone calling themselves liberal Tumbulu Nov 2013 #487

And what you're doing is setting up straw enemies & placing them on yr. own semantic playing field. Warren DeMontague Nov 2013 #489

You honestly think that hurting Tumbulu Nov 2013 #493

Direct Quote: "You honestly think that hurting People on purpose is part of being liberal?" Warren DeMontague Nov 2013 #501

Well, I find this hard to believe. Tumbulu Nov 2013 #503

"And there is nothing stuffed shirt about caring for people" Bonobo Nov 2013 #507

Straw Man Argument. Warren DeMontague Nov 2013 #509

See Warren's reply to you. NaturalHigh Nov 2013 #474

I've been avoiding this subject pretty carefully. FedUpWithIt All Nov 2013 #510

It is very sad to me Tumbulu Nov 2013 #512

I love woman and would say most people here do . orpupilofnature57 Nov 2013 #515

As a Liberal BuddhaGirl Nov 2013 #520

Difference is you and your husband are enjoying porn orpupilofnature57 Nov 2013 #522

There is simulated rape in BDSM porn BuddhaGirl Nov 2013 #525

Bingo, I did . But I don't in a rape film, unless like You " Simulation " orpupilofnature57 Nov 2013 #526

see post #471 BuddhaGirl Nov 2013 #528