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Showing Original Post only (View all)Whose idea was it to put Allen Dulles on the Warren Commission? Robert Kennedy's. [View all]
I did not know that until today. Before now on DU, all I hear is how Dulles' presence on the Commission guarantees that the fix was in, but I never hear about Bobby being the one to put Dulles on the Commission. That sheds a whole different light on the situation, doesn't it?
Source? This fantastic article from Skeptic Magazine (pdf):
http://www.skeptic.com/downloads/JFK-Conspiracy-Theories-at-50.pdf
The footnote for this information is as follows:
Holland, (Max,) 2004. The Kennedy Assassination Tapes: The White House Conversations of Lyndon B. Johnson regarding the Assassination, the Warren Commission, and the Aftermath. New York: Alfred A. Knopf, 120. See also Russo, Gus. 1998. Live by the Sword: The Secret War against Castro and the Death of JFK. Baltimore: Bancroft, 362.
So Robert Kennedy is on tape suggesting to Johnson that Dulles be a part of the Warren Commission.
For the record, I do not believe that Robert Kennedy was an accessory before or after the fact to his brother's murder. Indeed, I find any suggestion that he was to be a clear mark that someone has wandered too far into Crazytown. And yet, for those who cannot seem to post here at DU about Kennedy's assassination without trumpeting Dulles as a boogyman, I do not see how these posters can escape the conclusion that Robert Kennedy, at the very least, conspired with Dulles to do what JFK conspiracy advocates claim Dulles did - hide a CIA plot to kill Kennedy from the Commission.
Indeed, I learned that JFK conspiracy advocates will go so far as to accuse Robert Kennedy in so many words from an article posted several times here at DU:
http://www.acorn.net/jfkplace/09/fp.back_issues/27th_Issue/schotz.html
THE ROLE OF ROBERT F. KENNEDY
It is at this point that we can begin to look at the role of the "critical community" in this process, but before I do this I want to examine the role of Robert F. Kennedy.
When I have tried to point out to people that Robert F. Kennedy, in cooperating with the cover-up, became in every sense of the word an accessory after the fact in his own brother's murder, there has generally been an instant recoil. But I want to tell you., that this is not an opinion; this is just a fact. There is no way we can deny this, if we think about it. I'm not talking about why he became an accessory, but the fact that he did is absolutely undeniable. Robert F. Kennedy had a legal sworn obligation to seek out the assassins, and in failing to do so he joined the criminal act of conspiracy with the criminal act of cover-up and sealed the deal. And don't let anyone tell you that it was because he couldn't put two words together after his brother was murdered. I have seen his correspondence with Ray Marcus. And if it were some kind of personal emotional reaction, how is it that none of the people surrounding Robert Kennedy could utter the obvious truth of the assassination? No, Robert Kennedy's cooperation, agonizing and humiliating as it must have been for him, was dictated by political considerations, which led him away from his legal and moral obligation to tell the American people what he knew.
When I start talking to people about this, I hear Robert Kennedy's actions defended with the idea that if he had spoken out he would have been marginalized. And this is important, because maybe that was part of Robert Kennedy's motivation. But I think the person who responds to me in this way is telling me something about his or her own motivation. The person is telling me that in their opinion, the desire not to be marginalized can somehow justify Iying to the public about what you do and don't know about the assassination of the President. I want to say in no uncertain terms this Iying is not only profoundly lacking in morality but is in addition profoundly foolish and is totally indefensible. It was indefensible for Robert Kennedy and it is indefensible for any one of us.
There is no justification whatsoever for lying to anyone about what you do and don't know about this murder. Quite to the contrary, if telling the truth marginalizes you, then that is the place to be. After all, if enough people are willing to be marginalized, then before you know it, society has developed a different center. This is the politics of truth. But Robert Kennedy wasn't really used to the politics of truth. Instead, he was captivated by the illusory politics of power, influence and access. And I am afraid that many of us are also caught up with such ideas.
It is at this point that we can begin to look at the role of the "critical community" in this process, but before I do this I want to examine the role of Robert F. Kennedy.
When I have tried to point out to people that Robert F. Kennedy, in cooperating with the cover-up, became in every sense of the word an accessory after the fact in his own brother's murder, there has generally been an instant recoil. But I want to tell you., that this is not an opinion; this is just a fact. There is no way we can deny this, if we think about it. I'm not talking about why he became an accessory, but the fact that he did is absolutely undeniable. Robert F. Kennedy had a legal sworn obligation to seek out the assassins, and in failing to do so he joined the criminal act of conspiracy with the criminal act of cover-up and sealed the deal. And don't let anyone tell you that it was because he couldn't put two words together after his brother was murdered. I have seen his correspondence with Ray Marcus. And if it were some kind of personal emotional reaction, how is it that none of the people surrounding Robert Kennedy could utter the obvious truth of the assassination? No, Robert Kennedy's cooperation, agonizing and humiliating as it must have been for him, was dictated by political considerations, which led him away from his legal and moral obligation to tell the American people what he knew.
When I start talking to people about this, I hear Robert Kennedy's actions defended with the idea that if he had spoken out he would have been marginalized. And this is important, because maybe that was part of Robert Kennedy's motivation. But I think the person who responds to me in this way is telling me something about his or her own motivation. The person is telling me that in their opinion, the desire not to be marginalized can somehow justify Iying to the public about what you do and don't know about the assassination of the President. I want to say in no uncertain terms this Iying is not only profoundly lacking in morality but is in addition profoundly foolish and is totally indefensible. It was indefensible for Robert Kennedy and it is indefensible for any one of us.
There is no justification whatsoever for lying to anyone about what you do and don't know about this murder. Quite to the contrary, if telling the truth marginalizes you, then that is the place to be. After all, if enough people are willing to be marginalized, then before you know it, society has developed a different center. This is the politics of truth. But Robert Kennedy wasn't really used to the politics of truth. Instead, he was captivated by the illusory politics of power, influence and access. And I am afraid that many of us are also caught up with such ideas.
Much more at that link excoriating the memory of Robert Kennedy. At long last, my fellow DU members, is there no decency?
115 replies
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Whose idea was it to put Allen Dulles on the Warren Commission? Robert Kennedy's. [View all]
Bolo Boffin
Nov 2013
OP
It's bad enough to believe in silly conspiracies, but it is worse for somebody to completely
duffyduff
Nov 2013
#3
No. I despise made up shit being presented as fact, especially when the facts are well known.
longship
Nov 2013
#8
You're off-topic, RobertEarl. Stop discussing posters and discuss the post.
Bolo Boffin
Nov 2013
#13
Your OP is very transparent. Did you know that DUers are, on the whole, extremely smart people?
sabrina 1
Nov 2013
#36
"Octofish's OPS otoh, are excellent sources of real information and belong in GD."
zappaman
Nov 2013
#38
What topic? What you posted is ridiculous nonsense, which I know you know. Octafish's OPs
sabrina 1
Nov 2013
#50
A taped conversation between Robert Kennedy and Lyndon Johnson is "total bunk"?
Bolo Boffin
Nov 2013
#11
I am referring to the chraracterization of RFK as not being a man of truth, character
mother earth
Nov 2013
#22
No, there are more than crickets, if you listen. When Cyril Wecht uses forensics to dispel the
mother earth
Nov 2013
#39
My hypothesis is the Warren Commission was a neatly packaged facade of a full investigation, meant
mother earth
Nov 2013
#68
Longship, once again, we agree to disagree, wishing you well as always, my friend.
mother earth
Nov 2013
#70
I think this qualifies as CT and rumor, aka disinfo, not surprisingly, he's no longer around
mother earth
Nov 2013
#69
Read what you posted yourself, it is undetermined & remains so, like it or not,
mother earth
Nov 2013
#79
Ooooooh. There's conspiracies all around us. They're out to GET us! Run away! Run away!
stopbush
Nov 2013
#83
Good question, they are completely to be trusted! LOL, where have you been? With a nic like
mother earth
Nov 2013
#85
This Boston Globe article from earlier this week exposes the childinh thinking of Warren apologists
BlueStreak
Nov 2013
#101
TY, BlueStreak. They would have us denying history and the relevant facts that were never
mother earth
Nov 2013
#102
It is the same people and the same reasons for their authoritarian views about the NSA
BlueStreak
Nov 2013
#104
Equating the people you are debating with as holocaust deniers the epitome of incivility.
The Midway Rebel
Nov 2013
#112
JFK conspiracy theories are enjoying a dispensation because of the anniversary.
Bolo Boffin
Nov 2013
#5
Bobby gave him Dulles name in a private conversation? Hard to confirm, and given the position of
mother earth
Nov 2013
#7
TY, BB, I did not realize this private conversation was on tape. Do you have the excerpt
mother earth
Nov 2013
#23
Forensics is not congruent with woo, it is science based. Woo is in the eye of the beholder, one
mother earth
Nov 2013
#75
Yes, he was explaining why the Justice Department abdicated its role in the investigation
nyquil_man
Nov 2013
#29
Did Johnson consult with Robert Kennedy about who to put on the Commission, Octafish? n/t
Bolo Boffin
Nov 2013
#44
Let's not forget E. Howard Hunt's deathbed confession. Doesn't seem RFK liked Dulles, he fired him.
mother earth
Nov 2013
#46
The "I will splinter the CIA into a thousand pieces" quote was first attributed to JFK.
stopbush
Nov 2013
#65
More like they BOTH said it, they were a force to be reckoned with when it came to actually
mother earth
Nov 2013
#66
If only JFK had made a public statement about the CIA, the country would have known
stopbush
Nov 2013
#73
And oh how they hated him despite that little olive branch, while BOTH brothers planned to
mother earth
Nov 2013
#76
I voted D in my first presidential election in 1972, Elmer, and have voted D ever since.
stopbush
Nov 2013
#95
No, you act pathetically when you shit on others who do not share your same opinions.
mother earth
Nov 2013
#98
I guess his family is disgracing his memory too, because they aren't buying it either, never have.
mother earth
Nov 2013
#100
I'll take your non-response as an answer of "no" that you've ever read the WCR or the HSCA.
stopbush
Nov 2013
#103
You know nothing of me, nor of the Kennedys. Who are you to say any of these things? You are
mother earth
Nov 2013
#106
You aren't convincing anyone of anything, why so bent on stalking those who simply do not agree
mother earth
Nov 2013
#114
So says the CIA guy's son...jury's out on that one, but he knew the fed reserve's power,
mother earth
Nov 2013
#81
Maybe you should direct this to Saint John Hunt. Clearly, the widow should take legal action if true
mother earth
Nov 2013
#86
He's making money off of this revelation, no doubt. I don't hear much new on JFK on MSM,
mother earth
Nov 2013
#88
"Whitewash and lie"...confirmed in its essential conclusions by every subsequent investigation?
Spider Jerusalem
Nov 2013
#90
RK was not afraid of being marginalized, no that was the reality LBJ lived in before the
arthritisR_US
Nov 2013
#93