General Discussion

Carolina

(6,960 posts)

45. Actually

Tue Nov 26, 2013, 03:17 PM

Nov 2013

no, you don't pay it off as easily as your post would suggest.

Grossing 150K is one thing, but what is the net and what is the continued debt after taxes, malpractice insurance, living costs, etc? And bear in mind many medical students/young doctors incurred college debt as well. According to the AMA and the Association of American Medical Colleges (AAMC), student debt has now reached a point where the debt/income balance is negatively skewed, meaning the debt has begun to outpace the projected income.

Many young MDs will not reap the full reward of their educational investment (their time, youth, personal sacrifice as well as money) until their late 40s, early 50s, even 60. And please don't compare a real estate investment with medical education... it is simply not the same. Plus since 2008, real estate flips are not as lucrative as your putative example.

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Why Are American Doctors Paid So Damn Much? [View all] ErikJ Nov 2013 OP

Interesting, thanks! treestar Nov 2013 #1

Just like taxicabs in Manhattan: the number of doctors was set years ago Recursion Nov 2013 #2

Why are American actors paid so damn much? former9thward Nov 2013 #3

I've seen that Jamaal510 Nov 2013 #9

That is pretty much why doctors are paid what they are paid. former9thward Nov 2013 #117

And there would be less demand per capita if there were more doctors. truebluegreen Nov 2013 #161

I am in the legal profession and it is the opposite there. former9thward Nov 2013 #163

I know that is true. truebluegreen Nov 2013 #165

For a simple reason rock Nov 2013 #20

An athlete has stats. An actor has box-office draw Vox Moi Nov 2013 #24

At least supply and demand works there treestar Nov 2013 #106

That may be better than the alternative. white_wolf Nov 2013 #150

I have no problem with doctors' salaries YarnAddict Nov 2013 #4

Nor do I. onyourleft Nov 2013 #6

I lost my primary care physician YarnAddict Nov 2013 #11

I wonder how Cuba manages to train so many tech3149 Nov 2013 #84

I don't see cuba on the list in the OP TroglodyteScholar Nov 2013 #92

Concerning the ACA ErikJ Nov 2013 #22

I agree... onyourleft Nov 2013 #64

I agree. HappyMe Nov 2013 #8

Pretty much... Drunken Irishman Nov 2013 #10

Exactly! Carolina Nov 2013 #36

The cost of their education is a big part of the problem enlightenment Nov 2013 #38

Very interesting how single payer advocates treestar Nov 2013 #109

I certainly think so. enlightenment Nov 2013 #115

Plus the cost of Malpractice Insurance thecrow Nov 2013 #118

I was talking to someone who was a veterinarian yesterday, and that sparked me to look up penultimate Nov 2013 #46

Veterinary school is notoriously hard to get into mainer Nov 2013 #94

Most docs could have their loans forgiven if they were willing to practice in rural or inner city Hoyt Nov 2013 #53

My brother is a doctor. Initech Nov 2013 #61

All of those are to reduce the number of doctors for the greedy AMA. ErikJ Nov 2013 #66

I do. I've had too many doctors, particularly specialists, truebluegreen Nov 2013 #162

Because they are 'The Entitled' Vox Moi Nov 2013 #5

I probably would have been insulted too n/t YarnAddict Nov 2013 #15

Curious � why would you be insulted? Vox Moi Nov 2013 #17

Everyone complains about their student loans YarnAddict Nov 2013 #18

I never met a teacher who was making $180k or more Vox Moi Nov 2013 #21

So what? YarnAddict Nov 2013 #23

Exactly! So what? Vox Moi Nov 2013 #26

What on Earth yeoman6987 Nov 2013 #76

Then you haven't met doctors. Initech Nov 2013 #65

Lowest paid: "With a base pay offer of $189,000 a year, on average, family practitioners, Chathamization Nov 2013 #72

That's exactly what the Heritage Foundation and the Koch roaches wants you to think. Initech Nov 2013 #81

If you have actual data, feel free to show it. The average public school teachers salary is $56,069 Chathamization Nov 2013 #85

No. It's not a distraction. Initech Nov 2013 #89

And pharma nadinbrzezinski Nov 2013 #139

and the CEO salary costs about $1.5 for each customer hfojvt Nov 2013 #149

Try reading that chart again nadinbrzezinski Nov 2013 #138

Hubby is a psychiatrist in practice for almost 40 years. He's never made $189,000. mnhtnbb Nov 2013 #157

The problem is the corporate owners, not the doctors. woo me with science Nov 2013 #7

That is very true and something to resist. Vox Moi Nov 2013 #14

but if a doctor is making $380,000 a year hfojvt Nov 2013 #50

No. Bullshit. Initech Nov 2013 #82

uh, no, it is a matter of statistics hfojvt Nov 2013 #86

No, it is a matter of your deliberately missing the point of the argument. woo me with science Nov 2013 #100

that becomes even more ridiculous then hfojvt Nov 2013 #116

Avoid the MAIN IDEA. Bypass the central point I made. woo me with science Nov 2013 #119

I think I said, your main idea does NOT make any sense hfojvt Nov 2013 #136

I can literally count those in one hand, serious nadinbrzezinski Nov 2013 #140

depends on the specialty hfojvt Nov 2013 #143

And radiology is one specialty nadinbrzezinski Nov 2013 #148

I don't have a problem with doctors making a good salary gollygee Nov 2013 #12

The insurance and big hospital corporation executives thank you for your concern... hunter Nov 2013 #13

+ a gazillion. nt Mojorabbit Nov 2013 #80

The average medical student in the U.S. graduates with $205,000 of debt. Xithras Nov 2013 #16

Well, if you make $150k you can pay it back easily. Vox Moi Nov 2013 #19

Sure, if you want to forgo that middle class lifestyle. Xithras Nov 2013 #31

Actually Carolina Nov 2013 #45

Here is an article where an MD breaks down his costs melm00se Nov 2013 #52

Look at his age and malpractice insurance Carolina Nov 2013 #56

California just opened one KamaAina Nov 2013 #28

Yep, I know. Xithras Nov 2013 #34

More medical schools are NOT inducing price competition. Carolina Nov 2013 #39

A thought - go to a foreign medical school treestar Nov 2013 #107

You have to blame the Greedy Higher Education System and the high costs of doing business AZ Progressive Nov 2013 #25

That's getting to the heart of the problem ... Vox Moi Nov 2013 #32

Yep, professional schools in general are seen as cash cows Chathamization Nov 2013 #74

It took my Stepson 3 years to get into Med School. maxsolomon Nov 2013 #27

and most doctors after graduating are are residency, etc, are at least 200k in debt to boot lostincalifornia Nov 2013 #30

A lot of doctors are in major debt when they get out of medical schools. Clinic an d hospital lostincalifornia Nov 2013 #29

Because doctors come out of school in debt. MicaelS Nov 2013 #33

Let's see, she invests $360K to get salary over $200K per year for 30 years -- not a bad investment. Hoyt Nov 2013 #54

EXACTLY. Lex Nov 2013 #58

They are the highest paid in the world frazzled Nov 2013 #35

Probably so are our plumbers, pipefitters, and actors mainer Nov 2013 #105

That's stunningly misguided and simplistic coming from Kevin Drum MH1 Nov 2013 #37

+1000 nt B2G Nov 2013 #47

I quit medicine for those reasons mainer Nov 2013 #98

Doctor's Pay Is Too Damn High Party Capt. Obvious Nov 2013 #40

Or "The Medical Bills are Too Damn High Party." ErikJ Nov 2013 #43

Why are mediocre political bloggers paid so damn much? BlueCheese Nov 2013 #41

Most countries pay for their doctors education. ErikJ Nov 2013 #48

This ^^^^^ and even as single payer advocates we don't think in those terms treestar Nov 2013 #111

And the arcane training methods practiced in American medical schools. procon Nov 2013 #42

Just a doctor appointment now days costs over $100.00! Wouldn't B Calm Nov 2013 #44

Easy money?! It isn't going into Carolina Nov 2013 #49

doctors have always been paid more than any another profession madrchsod Nov 2013 #51

EVERYTHING for a doctor is delayed taught_me_patience Nov 2013 #55

Thank you, taught__ me __ patience Carolina Nov 2013 #60

There's always a risk with investment treestar Nov 2013 #108

Med school admissions increased throughout the '00s. Igel Nov 2013 #57

No. Absolutely no. Doctors deserve every cent they make. Initech Nov 2013 #59

Thank you Carolina Nov 2013 #62

Yeah exactly. CEO of United Health made $106 million. Initech Nov 2013 #63

And United Health is but one of the villains Carolina Nov 2013 #67

They don't study for 20 hours a day. BlueCheese Nov 2013 #68

Matt hits it on the head. Limit the supply, create the demand, which in turn causes duffyduff Nov 2013 #69

I'm with Initech on this one, crap like this really irritates me. Butterbean Nov 2013 #70

Thank you , Butterbean! Carolina Nov 2013 #99

Here's a recent example of the doctor oligopoly at work, limiting supply. Trillo Nov 2013 #71

Authored by Dr. Dean Baker, macroeconomist Trillo Nov 2013 #103

Average UK primary care doctor earns about $160,000 mainer Nov 2013 #73

American GP's less than that I think ErikJ Nov 2013 #75

Nowadays, a lot of family docs do not do hospital work, limiting a lot of oncall issues. Hoyt Nov 2013 #77

why no malpractice worries? treestar Nov 2013 #112

Because in UK, doctors aren't financially liable for malpractice mainer Nov 2013 #114

So the doctors don't have to buy insurance? treestar Nov 2013 #159

there is a very simple reason flyingfysh Nov 2013 #78

You'd be surprised how little malpractice insurance is for most docs. Hoyt Nov 2013 #87

Not to disagree with anything in the OP, pangaia Nov 2013 #79

An acquaintance of mine lived in Israel for a few years and said that Lydia Leftcoast Nov 2013 #83

They do take on a substantial amount of debt at a young age ... slipslidingaway Nov 2013 #88

And the majority of physicians were in favor of a national health care system... slipslidingaway Nov 2013 #90

being arrested by Baucus made it difficult to advance the issue solarhydrocan Nov 2013 #93

Certainly a majority of young physicians would mainer Nov 2013 #95

Is there any evidence for that? treestar Nov 2013 #113

I don't think so Chuuku Davis Nov 2013 #147

I'm not so concerned about the pay of doctors fujiyama Nov 2013 #91

Drastically dropping doctors' pay would result in a number of changes mainer Nov 2013 #96

Medical school enrollment figures -- up 30% mainer Nov 2013 #97

Fought like lemmings? The Velveteen Ocelot Nov 2013 #101

Read the history of the AMA and you will understand why Dr's get paid so much ... MindMover Nov 2013 #102

You do know that only 15% of doctors belong to AMA? mainer Nov 2013 #120

Whatever dude, read about its goals ... to promote and further physicians incomes ............ MindMover Nov 2013 #123

Just like any trade union -- only this one represents a fraction of doctors mainer Nov 2013 #126

They spend $13 MILLION a year lobbying congress ErikJ Nov 2013 #144

Pharmaceutical corporation money... hunter Nov 2013 #166

I have no issue with what Doctors make Marrah_G Nov 2013 #104

It comes down to medical schools limiting the number of students n2doc Nov 2013 #110

Please see Mainer's Carolina Nov 2013 #122

They receive no more difficult or extensive training than do ER doctors n2doc Nov 2013 #124

You are so, so wrong about ER docs = plastic surgeons. mainer Nov 2013 #125

Hey mainer Carolina Nov 2013 #146

Wrong. nadinbrzezinski Nov 2013 #167

Cuba is a great case study on this - TBF Nov 2013 #121

Organized crime, basically--it's an extortion racket. MADem Nov 2013 #127

So doctors should only take care of the "hard" shit mainer Nov 2013 #128

If they spend more time per patient, they'd be less stressed. MADem Nov 2013 #130

You want to make doctors' lives better? mainer Nov 2013 #131

If working to their full ability is too hard for them, they are in the wrong line of work. MADem Nov 2013 #132

And many, many more doctors will quit if all they deal with is train wrecks mainer Nov 2013 #134

You did make the correct decision. MADem Nov 2013 #155

Easing the educational bottleneck will help, as will easing the enormous cost of medical school Warpy Nov 2013 #129

Actually, there's quite a range in income among MD's in the US. mnhtnbb Nov 2013 #133

Yeah, people complain about primary care doctors' "high incomes" mainer Nov 2013 #135

And pharma, never forget about big pharma nadinbrzezinski Nov 2013 #141

True. Very true. Also pushing meds with dubious value--like statins--on everyone. mnhtnbb Nov 2013 #156

I am an ideal candidate for statins nadinbrzezinski Nov 2013 #164

Matt needs to read that chart again, for starters nadinbrzezinski Nov 2013 #137

It's almost a closed system in the US. Just look at the Med school system, who is in charge, who kelliekat44 Nov 2013 #142

The AMA spends $13 million a year lobbying congress ErikJ Nov 2013 #145

Our entire medical care system is insane upi402 Nov 2013 #152

BECAUSE THEY'RE FUCKING WORTH IT. cherokeeprogressive Nov 2013 #151

BS-In Ecuador they make 1/10th as much and even make HOUSECALLS! ErikJ Nov 2013 #154

AfriggingMEN DustyJoe Nov 2013 #158

The entire education system is a sham. joshcryer Nov 2013 #153

first of all doctors are not usually "paid", they earn as part of a LLC or sub-chapter S corporation beachbum bob Nov 2013 #160