General Discussion

lumberjack_jeff

(33,224 posts)

16. Horse... cart... horse... cart...

Tue Nov 26, 2013, 08:26 PM

Nov 2013

As the author so deftly explains, the psychology of scarcity sabotages every windfall which comes their way. He describes a family dynamic in which earned income credit tax refunds could arrive in the mailbox twice a year or more and still have the same lack of effect. "Spend it before it disappears!"

If this years EITC hadn't been exchanged for a 52" tv, there would be the extra $2 to buy the 6 pack of TP.

I don't discount his statement that poor people manage money poorly because they lack practice. I'm suggesting that there are other ways than unsupervised trial and error to get that practice.

I don't think you can fix poverty without fixing the psychology and skill deficit that the poverty has caused.

I thought this time slideshow of one-weeks-food was a real eye opener.

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The 5 Stupidest Habits You Develop Growing Up Poor [View all] KamaAina Nov 2013 OP

I know I'm going to get shit for this... lumberjack_jeff Nov 2013 #1

No poor people need money. 655351 Nov 2013 #2

Seriously? Just take peoples' things? nolabear Nov 2013 #5

It's not like the rich'll suffer one iota. Geez. Keeping so much for no reason is wrong. nt valerief Nov 2013 #15

Rich people should have given of their fortunes not hoarded vast amounts of wealth. 655351 Nov 2013 #19

I cannot see through you Skittles Nov 2013 #47

Yeh--We got a live one here. Jackpine Radical Nov 2013 #49

that one is not Skittles-worthy Skittles Nov 2013 #51

I think she/he has a point or I'm seeing something that's not there. BlueJazz Nov 2013 #57

hey I'll post what I think sounds like LIBERALS and SEE WHAT HAPPENS Skittles Nov 2013 #63

I give people more room or rope than you do. I like to be sure cause I can be fooled. BlueJazz Nov 2013 #69

those people are correct Skittles Nov 2013 #71

*snort!* nolabear Nov 2013 #74

ever noticed arely staircase Nov 2013 #101

Ya gotta keep the sockpuppets straight SOMEHOW. Jackpine Radical Nov 2013 #115

Someone did not train this guy well enough murielm99 Nov 2013 #153

actually MOST of them are like that Skittles Nov 2013 #168

dittomasters arely staircase Nov 2013 #185

Partially agree but it can be said that Wealth used to destroy the happiness of the populace.... BlueJazz Nov 2013 #55

Greed is one of the Seven Deadly Sins... Fla_Democrat Nov 2013 #67

*facepalm* You're having me on, aren't you? nolabear Nov 2013 #70

Apparently so Hekate Nov 2013 #95

the spelling passes the smell test, but not the grammar or sentence structure. magical thyme Nov 2013 #161

Exactly. Many of us were "middle class" until we lost our jobs and can't get back in the labor duffyduff Nov 2013 #24

Are you serious? aristocles Nov 2013 #42

Nobody is denied the right to achieve in the US. Boudica the Lyoness Nov 2013 #93

Enjoy your stay Hekate Nov 2013 #94

It's funny how the rich don't need life skills, they have connections and money to handle that. Sirveri Nov 2013 #96

Wow. This post was allowed to stand. reflection Nov 2013 #120

Why do people troll message boards? IronLionZion Nov 2013 #138

Trolling for his friends at the Imprisoned Republic. AAO Nov 2013 #143

Must be lunchtime... ElboRuum Nov 2013 #145

THINK MASLOW - Shelter, Food, Security provide a base to the rest. Tigress DEM Nov 2013 #183

If you can't magick up more $ though, your still faced with the same choices riderinthestorm Nov 2013 #8

Horse... cart... horse... cart... lumberjack_jeff Nov 2013 #16

it is possible hfojvt Nov 2013 #44

I know a lot of people with solid middle-class incomes that have the same problem. lumberjack_jeff Nov 2013 #172

okay, it seems that has changed hfojvt Nov 2013 #177

Beautiful stereotyping of a random sampling of people. Half-Century Man Nov 2013 #56

Already been there. n/t lumberjack_jeff Nov 2013 #60

What type of training do you recommend. Blanks Nov 2013 #152

It was mentioned elsewhere... lumberjack_jeff Nov 2013 #170

You'd also be a good choice for a teacher. A been there - done that kind of guy... Tigress DEM Nov 2013 #182

Making and decontextualization lumberjack_jeff Nov 2013 #187

Ruby Payne YarnAddict Nov 2013 #126

Fully agree. lumberjack_jeff Nov 2013 #129

Yup YarnAddict Nov 2013 #134

^^This!^^ BrotherIvan Nov 2013 #139

Ruby Payne is a twisted perspective on poverty that comforts middle class folks. LuckyLib Nov 2013 #156

In what way does her perspective comfort middle class people? YarnAddict Nov 2013 #163

You make a good point. We behave in ways that help us adapt to our social and financial reality. LuckyLib Nov 2013 #191

I'm unable to connect the act of a teacher acknowledging their own privilege lumberjack_jeff Nov 2013 #192

I guess my point is more basic YarnAddict Nov 2013 #193

apparently the problem with Ruby Payne's claims is that they aren't actually magical thyme Nov 2013 #164

Much of what she presented was YarnAddict Nov 2013 #165

my comment is based on reading the links provided by the poster below magical thyme Nov 2013 #169

Yes, that kind of thing is considered condescending. Igel Nov 2013 #11

Okay. LWolf Nov 2013 #12

How can free medical not be a benefit? lumberjack_jeff Nov 2013 #22

"free medical" LWolf Nov 2013 #99

You're going to deservedly get shit for it Prophet 451 Nov 2013 #53

Thank you. Well put. uppityperson Nov 2013 #83

I'm extremely poor. I work as an adjunct professor, have an M.S. and nearly a PhD in a hard science enki23 Nov 2013 #54

20 years ago everything you have done, would have made you successful already. Tigress DEM Nov 2013 #184

People don't appraise the value of education rationally. lumberjack_jeff Nov 2013 #188

No, I get that you're just trying to be an infuriating ass. I understand that, I promise you. enki23 Nov 2013 #194

Yes, this is why we need more outreach and publicity for the Navigators dem in texas Nov 2013 #62

Sorry Jeff, this is not the shit you expected tech3149 Nov 2013 #76

The op wasn't a laundry list of exemplary skills lumberjack_jeff Nov 2013 #79

What good are fucking skills if there are no jobs to be had? What, we need to ChisolmTrailDem Nov 2013 #91

I'm talking about the OP. lumberjack_jeff Nov 2013 #100

Not just financial type knowledge One_Life_To_Give Nov 2013 #103

To some extent, but I think idolizing them isn't justified either. lumberjack_jeff Nov 2013 #107

Alternatively, you could actually read the article and find out why you're wrong. jeff47 Nov 2013 #109

I learned how to drive without crashing any cars. lumberjack_jeff Nov 2013 #111

And that car was what gave you practice. jeff47 Nov 2013 #118

Don't even suggest that I'm the one with the reading problems. lumberjack_jeff Nov 2013 #123

They did put instructors in the car. jeff47 Nov 2013 #124

You're the one calling them morons and idiots. Three times now, by my count. n/t lumberjack_jeff Nov 2013 #127

I'm just stripping off the BS you layered on to your proposal jeff47 Nov 2013 #128

I'm sure you will, but I think you have a point. Marr Nov 2013 #119

Exactly. lumberjack_jeff Nov 2013 #132

If you give a man a fish, you'll feed him for a day. If you teach a man to fish, you'll feed him Dash87 Nov 2013 #122

Exactly. lumberjack_jeff Nov 2013 #125

Here's why I disagree that life skills are the predominant issue at play - Dash87 Nov 2013 #131

All the jobs that were outsourced coming back (which will not happen) would maddiemom Nov 2013 #154

Good article...I've lived this Boxerfan Nov 2013 #3

Yes. Americans knew how to manufacture good products. JDPriestly Nov 2013 #58

Poor folks know that windfall will be nibbled down to nothing in weeks Warpy Nov 2013 #4

More than that Bozvotros Nov 2013 #59

If you're saving it in a coffee can or sock drawer Capt. Obvious Nov 2013 #114

Grew up in a poor community; parents and relatives squeezed every nickle until the buffalo shit FarCenter Nov 2013 #6

ROFLMAO!! KamaAina Nov 2013 #86

Poor People need a life changing program, not stop gap measures. Tigress DEM Nov 2013 #7

Now you're cooking with gas. TheKentuckian Nov 2013 #13

Or solar!! Tigress DEM Nov 2013 #18

it's a great idea for urban planning. good luck on your presentation. BlancheSplanchnik Nov 2013 #162

Been working on it for awhile. Tigress DEM Nov 2013 #181

Maybe spread out tax refunds. lumberjack_jeff Nov 2013 #20

In my plan that would go into PPCV - Pre Paid Credit Vouchers Tigress DEM Nov 2013 #32

I like the way you think, Tigress DEM gristy Nov 2013 #64

So life skills are okay, provided we mix a bunch of "save the whales" into the curriculum? lumberjack_jeff Nov 2013 #104

If I read the article you linked to correctly xulamaude Nov 2013 #140

I'm simply stating that giving people who have given up hope some inspiration works. Tigress DEM Nov 2013 #180

No. We need politicians who will actually do something duffyduff Nov 2013 #28

A habit I picked up from my Depression-era mother... Blue_In_AK Nov 2013 #9

I'm 40 Aerows Nov 2013 #30

Thats not a "STUPID" habit Blue - - ur off-topic ConcernedCanuk Nov 2013 #135

Yes, I do save eggshells for the compost, Blue_In_AK Nov 2013 #141

Poor folks yeoman6987 Nov 2013 #10

Poor folks remain poor because the system is rigged to keep them poor. Tigress DEM Nov 2013 #21

But for the grace of God go you. duffyduff Nov 2013 #26

Definitely - I scratched by through the last recession and finally came out ok bhikkhu Nov 2013 #33

Better idea - take the kids away Capt. Obvious Nov 2013 #117

Take the kids away yeoman6987 Nov 2013 #121

I'll soon be experiencing this myself therehegoes Nov 2013 #14

This was very accurate as I remember - TBF Nov 2013 #17

Maybe I'm an idiot Aerows Nov 2013 #23

Does not compute tkmorris Nov 2013 #31

Sure it does Aerows Nov 2013 #34

Welcome to the DU Food Snob Zone OmahaBlueDog Nov 2013 #41

Indeed Aerows Nov 2013 #43

I understand what you are saying, but here is what I have been told: left on green only Nov 2013 #77

I don't think you are a snob for saying that Aerows Nov 2013 #78

The Thing I Like To Do With Broccoli..... left on green only Nov 2013 #149

That sounds delicious! Aerows Nov 2013 #150

One man's food snob Capt. Obvious Nov 2013 #113

In my program, you'd be a teacher. Tigress DEM Nov 2013 #35

I'm absolutely addicted to cottage cheese Aerows Nov 2013 #39

I'm petrified of canning. Beacool Nov 2013 #84

Canning isn't that hard, really Aerows Nov 2013 #85

It's not quite that easy Retrograde Nov 2013 #92

So ultimately we agree Aerows Nov 2013 #151

Yes and no Retrograde Nov 2013 #173

I'm good with yes and no Aerows Nov 2013 #178

The Cooperative Extension Service - there's one in every country - teaches most of the skills Hestia Nov 2013 #68

I think I fell through The Onion hole Aerows Nov 2013 #80

I'd like to dovetail with existing programs where possible. Tigress DEM Nov 2013 #98

If you can read, you can can...... llmart Nov 2013 #176

Sodium levels, for one thing. Gormy Cuss Nov 2013 #46

Low sodium green beans Aerows Nov 2013 #48

Note that I also wrote they don't have the flavor you expect Gormy Cuss Nov 2013 #50

Uh, canning is pretty easy Aerows Nov 2013 #75

Canned veggies pipi_k Nov 2013 #61

I will never say that canned taste better Aerows Nov 2013 #65

Well, if there's any truth pipi_k Nov 2013 #105

Canned vegetables are just as nutritious as frozen. alarimer Nov 2013 #72

Canned vegetables are bad for you Capt. Obvious Nov 2013 #112

When Living in The RobinA Nov 2013 #136

Here in the reality based community Capt. Obvious Nov 2013 #142

Being poor can happen to anybody but the tiniest number of rich. duffyduff Nov 2013 #25

Donald Trump went broke how many times? Tigress DEM Nov 2013 #36

Went bankrupt, not broke KamaAina Nov 2013 #87

That's my point. He blew through more money than any of us could have & people kept handing him more Tigress DEM Nov 2013 #97

One that was left out spinbaby Nov 2013 #27

The worst habit I experienced is getting used to having nothing bhikkhu Nov 2013 #29

I hear ya... pipi_k Nov 2013 #106

Yes! Myrina Nov 2013 #110

I completely relate to this. Then Phlem Nov 2013 #37

Or how about guaranteed income of $2800/ mo. like in Switzerland? ErikJ Nov 2013 #38

Reminds me of another article I saw on Alternet. Nine Nov 2013 #40

K/R and I spent some time in Hawaii this month talking about this topic specifically. NYC_SKP Nov 2013 #45

I'll add two, although they aren't "habits" so much as orientations alcibiades_mystery Nov 2013 #52

So... pipi_k Nov 2013 #66

Thanks for this post KamaAina hibbing Nov 2013 #73

I beat the odds.. I grew up poor and am still Cha Nov 2013 #81

Poor people are "stupid"? Trillo Nov 2013 #82

Sounds strange but I'm deliberately poor: In deference to my body Populist_Prole Nov 2013 #88

I'm doing the same sort of thing... magical thyme Nov 2013 #167

With #5, Jamaal510 Nov 2013 #89

Poor people get checks for $5,000? Coyotl Nov 2013 #90

EIC can easily be $5000 renie408 Nov 2013 #102

This excerpt is so fucking spot on Capt. Obvious Nov 2013 #108

#1. You Only Spend with the Short Term in Mind Capt. Obvious Nov 2013 #116

This a rerun. Old. Quantess Nov 2013 #130

I didn't see this a year ago - I'm glad it was reposted. ConcernedCanuk Nov 2013 #137

Well said. raging moderate Nov 2013 #133

It's the failure to see the long term cost of refusing what's called "upfront" preventive spending. ancianita Nov 2013 #144

The myth of the massive tax return and the blowing of same exists only in the heads of the non-poor. Spitfire of ATJ Nov 2013 #146

And the author, who used to be poor. KamaAina Nov 2013 #147

People making low wages don't get big income tax refunds.... Spitfire of ATJ Nov 2013 #148

That only happens pipi_k Nov 2013 #175

Another thing to consider is the changing demographics.... Spitfire of ATJ Nov 2013 #179

This missed the worst habit of them all. Habit #0, ahead of all these. Self-blame, self-loathing. AtheistCrusader Nov 2013 #155

Or Systemic "Blame the Poor" kneejerk attitudes that lead to self-blame. Tigress DEM Nov 2013 #186

Help Of The Most Imperfect Kind grilled onions Nov 2013 #157

Another Blame-the-Poor thread on DU? bvar22 Nov 2013 #158

Actually, I posted it because it refutes the blame-the-poor threads KamaAina Nov 2013 #159

That is how I saw it, Kama! murray hill farm Nov 2013 #160

No, that article is a cheap knock off of Reagan's bvar22 Nov 2013 #171

I don't think so, this time. Of course the replies have been pretty well Egalitarian Thug Nov 2013 #166

While we're posting great Cracked.com articles.... C_eh_N_eh_D_eh Nov 2013 #174

Ugh. I'm reading about my childhood... devils chaplain Nov 2013 #189

With nearly 200 replies, this is my most successful thread ever at DU! KamaAina Nov 2013 #190