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The Velveteen Ocelot

(129,775 posts)

101. Fought like lemmings?

Wed Nov 27, 2013, 10:29 AM

Nov 2013

Lemmings don't fight; they just jump off the cliff. An odd choice of metaphor - I'd have picked wolverines or Tasmanian devils.

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Why Are American Doctors Paid So Damn Much? [View all] ErikJ Nov 2013 OP

Interesting, thanks! treestar Nov 2013 #1

Just like taxicabs in Manhattan: the number of doctors was set years ago Recursion Nov 2013 #2

Why are American actors paid so damn much? former9thward Nov 2013 #3

I've seen that Jamaal510 Nov 2013 #9

That is pretty much why doctors are paid what they are paid. former9thward Nov 2013 #117

And there would be less demand per capita if there were more doctors. truebluegreen Nov 2013 #161

I am in the legal profession and it is the opposite there. former9thward Nov 2013 #163

I know that is true. truebluegreen Nov 2013 #165

For a simple reason rock Nov 2013 #20

An athlete has stats. An actor has box-office draw Vox Moi Nov 2013 #24

At least supply and demand works there treestar Nov 2013 #106

That may be better than the alternative. white_wolf Nov 2013 #150

I have no problem with doctors' salaries YarnAddict Nov 2013 #4

Nor do I. onyourleft Nov 2013 #6

I lost my primary care physician YarnAddict Nov 2013 #11

I wonder how Cuba manages to train so many tech3149 Nov 2013 #84

I don't see cuba on the list in the OP TroglodyteScholar Nov 2013 #92

Concerning the ACA ErikJ Nov 2013 #22

I agree... onyourleft Nov 2013 #64

I agree. HappyMe Nov 2013 #8

Pretty much... Drunken Irishman Nov 2013 #10

Exactly! Carolina Nov 2013 #36

The cost of their education is a big part of the problem enlightenment Nov 2013 #38

Very interesting how single payer advocates treestar Nov 2013 #109

I certainly think so. enlightenment Nov 2013 #115

Plus the cost of Malpractice Insurance thecrow Nov 2013 #118

I was talking to someone who was a veterinarian yesterday, and that sparked me to look up penultimate Nov 2013 #46

Veterinary school is notoriously hard to get into mainer Nov 2013 #94

Most docs could have their loans forgiven if they were willing to practice in rural or inner city Hoyt Nov 2013 #53

My brother is a doctor. Initech Nov 2013 #61

All of those are to reduce the number of doctors for the greedy AMA. ErikJ Nov 2013 #66

I do. I've had too many doctors, particularly specialists, truebluegreen Nov 2013 #162

Because they are 'The Entitled' Vox Moi Nov 2013 #5

I probably would have been insulted too n/t YarnAddict Nov 2013 #15

Curious … why would you be insulted? Vox Moi Nov 2013 #17

Everyone complains about their student loans YarnAddict Nov 2013 #18

I never met a teacher who was making $180k or more Vox Moi Nov 2013 #21

So what? YarnAddict Nov 2013 #23

Exactly! So what? Vox Moi Nov 2013 #26

What on Earth yeoman6987 Nov 2013 #76

Then you haven't met doctors. Initech Nov 2013 #65

Lowest paid: "With a base pay offer of $189,000 a year, on average, family practitioners, Chathamization Nov 2013 #72

That's exactly what the Heritage Foundation and the Koch roaches wants you to think. Initech Nov 2013 #81

If you have actual data, feel free to show it. The average public school teachers salary is $56,069 Chathamization Nov 2013 #85

No. It's not a distraction. Initech Nov 2013 #89

And pharma nadinbrzezinski Nov 2013 #139

and the CEO salary costs about $1.5 for each customer hfojvt Nov 2013 #149

Try reading that chart again nadinbrzezinski Nov 2013 #138

Hubby is a psychiatrist in practice for almost 40 years. He's never made $189,000. mnhtnbb Nov 2013 #157

The problem is the corporate owners, not the doctors. woo me with science Nov 2013 #7

That is very true and something to resist. Vox Moi Nov 2013 #14

but if a doctor is making $380,000 a year hfojvt Nov 2013 #50

No. Bullshit. Initech Nov 2013 #82

uh, no, it is a matter of statistics hfojvt Nov 2013 #86

No, it is a matter of your deliberately missing the point of the argument. woo me with science Nov 2013 #100

that becomes even more ridiculous then hfojvt Nov 2013 #116

Avoid the MAIN IDEA. Bypass the central point I made. woo me with science Nov 2013 #119

I think I said, your main idea does NOT make any sense hfojvt Nov 2013 #136

I can literally count those in one hand, serious nadinbrzezinski Nov 2013 #140

depends on the specialty hfojvt Nov 2013 #143

And radiology is one specialty nadinbrzezinski Nov 2013 #148

I don't have a problem with doctors making a good salary gollygee Nov 2013 #12

The insurance and big hospital corporation executives thank you for your concern... hunter Nov 2013 #13

+ a gazillion. nt Mojorabbit Nov 2013 #80

The average medical student in the U.S. graduates with $205,000 of debt. Xithras Nov 2013 #16

Well, if you make $150k you can pay it back easily. Vox Moi Nov 2013 #19

Sure, if you want to forgo that middle class lifestyle. Xithras Nov 2013 #31

Actually Carolina Nov 2013 #45

Here is an article where an MD breaks down his costs melm00se Nov 2013 #52

Look at his age and malpractice insurance Carolina Nov 2013 #56

California just opened one KamaAina Nov 2013 #28

Yep, I know. Xithras Nov 2013 #34

More medical schools are NOT inducing price competition. Carolina Nov 2013 #39

A thought - go to a foreign medical school treestar Nov 2013 #107

You have to blame the Greedy Higher Education System and the high costs of doing business AZ Progressive Nov 2013 #25

That's getting to the heart of the problem ... Vox Moi Nov 2013 #32

Yep, professional schools in general are seen as cash cows Chathamization Nov 2013 #74

It took my Stepson 3 years to get into Med School. maxsolomon Nov 2013 #27

and most doctors after graduating are are residency, etc, are at least 200k in debt to boot lostincalifornia Nov 2013 #30

A lot of doctors are in major debt when they get out of medical schools. Clinic an d hospital lostincalifornia Nov 2013 #29

Because doctors come out of school in debt. MicaelS Nov 2013 #33

Let's see, she invests $360K to get salary over $200K per year for 30 years -- not a bad investment. Hoyt Nov 2013 #54

EXACTLY. Lex Nov 2013 #58

They are the highest paid in the world frazzled Nov 2013 #35

Probably so are our plumbers, pipefitters, and actors mainer Nov 2013 #105

That's stunningly misguided and simplistic coming from Kevin Drum MH1 Nov 2013 #37

+1000 nt B2G Nov 2013 #47

I quit medicine for those reasons mainer Nov 2013 #98

Doctor's Pay Is Too Damn High Party Capt. Obvious Nov 2013 #40

Or "The Medical Bills are Too Damn High Party." ErikJ Nov 2013 #43

Why are mediocre political bloggers paid so damn much? BlueCheese Nov 2013 #41

Most countries pay for their doctors education. ErikJ Nov 2013 #48

This ^^^^^ and even as single payer advocates we don't think in those terms treestar Nov 2013 #111

And the arcane training methods practiced in American medical schools. procon Nov 2013 #42

Just a doctor appointment now days costs over $100.00! Wouldn't B Calm Nov 2013 #44

Easy money?! It isn't going into Carolina Nov 2013 #49

doctors have always been paid more than any another profession madrchsod Nov 2013 #51

EVERYTHING for a doctor is delayed taught_me_patience Nov 2013 #55

Thank you, taught__ me __ patience Carolina Nov 2013 #60

There's always a risk with investment treestar Nov 2013 #108

Med school admissions increased throughout the '00s. Igel Nov 2013 #57

No. Absolutely no. Doctors deserve every cent they make. Initech Nov 2013 #59

Thank you Carolina Nov 2013 #62

Yeah exactly. CEO of United Health made $106 million. Initech Nov 2013 #63

And United Health is but one of the villains Carolina Nov 2013 #67

They don't study for 20 hours a day. BlueCheese Nov 2013 #68

Matt hits it on the head. Limit the supply, create the demand, which in turn causes duffyduff Nov 2013 #69

I'm with Initech on this one, crap like this really irritates me. Butterbean Nov 2013 #70

Thank you , Butterbean! Carolina Nov 2013 #99

Here's a recent example of the doctor oligopoly at work, limiting supply. Trillo Nov 2013 #71

Authored by Dr. Dean Baker, macroeconomist Trillo Nov 2013 #103

Average UK primary care doctor earns about $160,000 mainer Nov 2013 #73

American GP's less than that I think ErikJ Nov 2013 #75

Nowadays, a lot of family docs do not do hospital work, limiting a lot of oncall issues. Hoyt Nov 2013 #77

why no malpractice worries? treestar Nov 2013 #112

Because in UK, doctors aren't financially liable for malpractice mainer Nov 2013 #114

So the doctors don't have to buy insurance? treestar Nov 2013 #159

there is a very simple reason flyingfysh Nov 2013 #78

You'd be surprised how little malpractice insurance is for most docs. Hoyt Nov 2013 #87

Not to disagree with anything in the OP, pangaia Nov 2013 #79

An acquaintance of mine lived in Israel for a few years and said that Lydia Leftcoast Nov 2013 #83

They do take on a substantial amount of debt at a young age ... slipslidingaway Nov 2013 #88

And the majority of physicians were in favor of a national health care system... slipslidingaway Nov 2013 #90

being arrested by Baucus made it difficult to advance the issue solarhydrocan Nov 2013 #93

Certainly a majority of young physicians would mainer Nov 2013 #95

Is there any evidence for that? treestar Nov 2013 #113

I don't think so Chuuku Davis Nov 2013 #147

I'm not so concerned about the pay of doctors fujiyama Nov 2013 #91

Drastically dropping doctors' pay would result in a number of changes mainer Nov 2013 #96

Medical school enrollment figures -- up 30% mainer Nov 2013 #97

Fought like lemmings? The Velveteen Ocelot Nov 2013 #101

Read the history of the AMA and you will understand why Dr's get paid so much ... MindMover Nov 2013 #102

You do know that only 15% of doctors belong to AMA? mainer Nov 2013 #120

Whatever dude, read about its goals ... to promote and further physicians incomes ............ MindMover Nov 2013 #123

Just like any trade union -- only this one represents a fraction of doctors mainer Nov 2013 #126

They spend $13 MILLION a year lobbying congress ErikJ Nov 2013 #144

Pharmaceutical corporation money... hunter Nov 2013 #166

I have no issue with what Doctors make Marrah_G Nov 2013 #104

It comes down to medical schools limiting the number of students n2doc Nov 2013 #110

Please see Mainer's Carolina Nov 2013 #122

They receive no more difficult or extensive training than do ER doctors n2doc Nov 2013 #124

You are so, so wrong about ER docs = plastic surgeons. mainer Nov 2013 #125

Hey mainer Carolina Nov 2013 #146

Wrong. nadinbrzezinski Nov 2013 #167

Cuba is a great case study on this - TBF Nov 2013 #121

Organized crime, basically--it's an extortion racket. MADem Nov 2013 #127

So doctors should only take care of the "hard" shit mainer Nov 2013 #128

If they spend more time per patient, they'd be less stressed. MADem Nov 2013 #130

You want to make doctors' lives better? mainer Nov 2013 #131

If working to their full ability is too hard for them, they are in the wrong line of work. MADem Nov 2013 #132

And many, many more doctors will quit if all they deal with is train wrecks mainer Nov 2013 #134

You did make the correct decision. MADem Nov 2013 #155

Easing the educational bottleneck will help, as will easing the enormous cost of medical school Warpy Nov 2013 #129

Actually, there's quite a range in income among MD's in the US. mnhtnbb Nov 2013 #133

Yeah, people complain about primary care doctors' "high incomes" mainer Nov 2013 #135

And pharma, never forget about big pharma nadinbrzezinski Nov 2013 #141

True. Very true. Also pushing meds with dubious value--like statins--on everyone. mnhtnbb Nov 2013 #156

I am an ideal candidate for statins nadinbrzezinski Nov 2013 #164

Matt needs to read that chart again, for starters nadinbrzezinski Nov 2013 #137

It's almost a closed system in the US. Just look at the Med school system, who is in charge, who kelliekat44 Nov 2013 #142

The AMA spends $13 million a year lobbying congress ErikJ Nov 2013 #145

Our entire medical care system is insane upi402 Nov 2013 #152

BECAUSE THEY'RE FUCKING WORTH IT. cherokeeprogressive Nov 2013 #151

BS-In Ecuador they make 1/10th as much and even make HOUSECALLS! ErikJ Nov 2013 #154

AfriggingMEN DustyJoe Nov 2013 #158

The entire education system is a sham. joshcryer Nov 2013 #153

first of all doctors are not usually "paid", they earn as part of a LLC or sub-chapter S corporation beachbum bob Nov 2013 #160