General Discussion

woo me with science

(32,139 posts)

68. This is indefensible except to propagandists and fools.

Wed Nov 27, 2013, 11:51 AM

Nov 2013

This is the mechanism of fascism and tyranny. This is an infrastructure that can and will be used against any inconvenient citizen. And, no, the GOVERNMENT is not a human criminal defendant entitled to presumption of innocence until proven guilty.

No, the government is a system that wields vast power and control over human lives and is highly corruptible, as history amply shows.

The Founders knew this, which is why the Bill of Rights focuses above all on what the government may NOT do. Rather than "innocent until proven guilty," the mantra for dealing with governments must ALWAYS be constant vigilance and preventing opportunities for abuse before they occur.

That's why we have a Fourth Amendment that prohibits fascist garbage like mass spying on citizens in the first place.

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Highlight:

Top-Secret Document Reveals NSA Spied On Porn Habits As Part Of Plan To Discredit 'Radicalizers' [View all] WillyT Nov 2013 OP

Six foreign individuals who were already targets for investigation. randome Nov 2013 #1

Message auto-removed Name removed Nov 2013 #119

Click through to read the entire thing. MineralMan Nov 2013 #2

So it's OK to spy on and then discredit people you don't agree with if it's only six (6)? Scuba Nov 2013 #4

If there are legitimate investigations opened into these individuals... randome Nov 2013 #6

They may have reason to spy, but publicly smearing them to discredit them is dishonest. Scuba Nov 2013 #8

If they are targets of an investigation, absent evidence to the contrary... randome Nov 2013 #12

You must mean right after they're convicted, not just accused, right? Scuba Nov 2013 #13

The U.S. does not CONVICT a radical Islamist who wants to stone women to death. randome Nov 2013 #18

What if he's advocating peace? Then is it OK? Scuba Nov 2013 #19

Of course not. That's a ridiculous question. randome Nov 2013 #24

Hardly ridiculous. Who's to say they're not advocating peace? Some guy at NSA with MIC incentives? Scuba Nov 2013 #25

You know, there are probably thousands of LE investigations going on right this moment. randome Nov 2013 #30

So "just trust them"? No thanks. Scuba Nov 2013 #31

Um, I don't think you understand the role of the NSA hootinholler Nov 2013 #91

When Snowden first ran to Hong Kong, the NSA's website was different. randome Nov 2013 #94

There might be a reason you can't find it hootinholler Nov 2013 #100

They apparently do, on occasion, corral some 'kiddie touchers'. randome Nov 2013 #101

And there's this controversial program. randome Nov 2013 #103

ROFL hootinholler Nov 2013 #114

From the NSA's FAQ. randome Nov 2013 #117

Dont forget all the drug users, that they've referred to the DEA! Warren DeMontague Nov 2013 #136

I would think a small-time user isn't worth their time, only dealers. randome Nov 2013 #137

Thus rendering the 4th Amendment totally meaningless. Warren DeMontague Nov 2013 #138

Leave the jihadists alone!!!.... SidDithers Nov 2013 #33

Message auto-removed Name removed Nov 2013 #122

Did you read the entire article? MineralMan Nov 2013 #7

And your point is? Scuba Nov 2013 #10

My point is the same as it was in the reply above. MineralMan Nov 2013 #16

So let's pretend 2013 didn't happen. It will help your post make sense. DisgustipatedinCA Nov 2013 #130

My question has been how much of Mr/Ms.Nobody's data is stored and archived somewhere for future use penultimate Nov 2013 #21

I have no idea, actually. MineralMan Nov 2013 #34

That was a great post MM arely staircase Nov 2013 #46

Thanks. I await differing opinions, though. MineralMan Nov 2013 #53

"People think they are anonymous on DU. They are incorrect."... SidDithers Nov 2013 #63

Oh, well...there are many inconsistencies in thinking MineralMan Nov 2013 #64

Fucking creepy, dude. Abnormal. I know you like to brag about investigating DUers DisgustipatedinCA Nov 2013 #128

WTF are you blathering on about now?...nt SidDithers Nov 2013 #129

About your stalking of other DUers, about you bragging about it, and about your unhealthy DisgustipatedinCA Nov 2013 #131

... SidDithers Nov 2013 #132

Asked and answered. But you're on the floor again. Thought you'd want to know. DisgustipatedinCA Nov 2013 #133

... SidDithers Nov 2013 #134

There is a difference between use of court orders ... davekriss Nov 2013 #104

"Collect it all." And store it. woo me with science Nov 2013 #85

When repukes talk about out of control big gobmint this is where I can agree. L0oniX Nov 2013 #3

Six people that we know of huh? Autumn Nov 2013 #5

Except that 'targets' to the NSA means foreign individuals for whom an investigation is opened. randome Nov 2013 #9

Only foreign individuals based on your trust of the NSA? Autumn Nov 2013 #11

I don't trust them but I need to see evidence to mistrust them. randome Nov 2013 #14

Okay, "They are forbidden by law from spying on U.S. citizens." Autumn Nov 2013 #17

If you ask me, that is a dangerous choice.. G_j Nov 2013 #45

Always absent evidence to the contrary, of course. randome Nov 2013 #50

and then there is Clapper, though G_j Nov 2013 #56

You know how that argument goes, though. randome Nov 2013 #66

They don't do FOIA so we will never know Ichingcarpenter Nov 2013 #15

You got it right. Autumn Nov 2013 #20

If any of you think they are NOT watching you.... cbdo2007 Nov 2013 #22

how soon before opponents of Monsanto G_j Nov 2013 #23

already labeled "eco-terrorists", already targeted BelgianMadCow Nov 2013 #116

We have DUers that would like this program expanded Capt. Obvious Nov 2013 #26

who? seabeyond Nov 2013 #28

LOL!!! Capt. Obvious Nov 2013 #36

mmm. ya. figured. just throwing shit out to see if anything sticks on the wall seabeyond Nov 2013 #37

Speak of the devil Capt. Obvious Nov 2013 #47

talk about immature. seabeyond Nov 2013 #52

Mirrors are cheap.. Upton Nov 2013 #41

so, you can accuse/insult/lie for no reasons what so ever. brilliant seabeyond Nov 2013 #44

so, you can accuse/insult/lie for no reasons what so ever. brilliant Capt. Obvious Nov 2013 #48

"accuse/insult/lie"...is that it? Upton Nov 2013 #54

LOL!!! Katashi_itto Nov 2013 #106

Yep... Upton Nov 2013 #39

Like moths to a flame Capt. Obvious Nov 2013 #58

girl takes naked picture, someone hacks in her puter and puts out web. duers say.... meh, she should seabeyond Nov 2013 #27

That's an interesting perspective, too. randome Nov 2013 #32

The NSA is *our government*. That's the difference. Hope this helps. nt Romulox Nov 2013 #40

i thought about it. no, it does not really help. seems the same at the basic level. nt seabeyond Nov 2013 #49

OK, it's six this time. Savannahmann Nov 2013 #65

Six. Foreign. Individuals. Under. Investigation. randome Nov 2013 #67

That. We. Know. About. Now. Savannahmann Nov 2013 #72

Spy games. We never worried about them before, why now? randome Nov 2013 #75

nowhere did i put up a position. that is not the point. i expect everyone to say, the net, nothing seabeyond Nov 2013 #71

Shocking BeyondGeography Nov 2013 #29

Greenwald. LOL...nt SidDithers Nov 2013 #35

Civil liberties violations....LOL! Romulox Nov 2013 #42

Just yesterday, I was going to post a "Where's Greenwald" Post. Now it's too late. FSogol Nov 2013 #43

Well, he's between gigs right now... SidDithers Nov 2013 #60

"Charging an exorbitant amount of money for their speaking fees"... SidDithers Nov 2013 #38

I wonder if the NSA actually owns some porn sites ThoughtCriminal Nov 2013 #51

you win warrprayer Nov 2013 #98

I would be shocked if they *don't*. MadrasT Nov 2013 #102

du rec. xchrom Nov 2013 #55

I'm certain that they track the habits of our Congress critters as well. peace13 Nov 2013 #57

That is done by the FBI, not the NSA. MineralMan Nov 2013 #78

Mullah Fazlullah arely staircase Nov 2013 #59

+1...nt SidDithers Nov 2013 #62

where does it say ONLY six? G_j Nov 2013 #61

+100000 woo me with science Nov 2013 #82

as some leaks in the past, this appears G_j Nov 2013 #86

+1 woo me with science Nov 2013 #123

This is indefensible except to propagandists and fools. woo me with science Nov 2013 #68

Six. Foreign. Indivduals. Under. Investigation. randome Nov 2013 #69

as woo me said: TheSarcastinator Nov 2013 #83

Welcome to DU... SidDithers Nov 2013 #84

Evidently we need to work on eliminating spying across the world, then. randome Nov 2013 #88

yes, it is obvious that you feel TheSarcastinator Nov 2013 #108

Our civil rights laws, our Constitution, our Bill of Rights, do not apply to the rest of the world. randome Nov 2013 #112

do you use some sort of cliche generator when creating your posts? arely staircase Nov 2013 #73

Top-Secret Document Reveals NSA Doing Its Job of Foreign Intelligence Gathering MineralMan Nov 2013 #70

States that build surveillance machines also build propaganda machines. woo me with science Nov 2013 #74

Every Nation Does Both MineralMan Nov 2013 #76

ah yes, the old ad populum argument TheSarcastinator Nov 2013 #109

Do you know of a state that doesn't engage MineralMan Nov 2013 #111

Wow, it finally happened. NuclearDem Nov 2013 #77

No one could predict the result until the experiment concluded. randome Nov 2013 #79

ROFLMAO !!! WillyT Nov 2013 #80

"An NSA thread was smashed in a supercollider with a porn thread." and from that crash BelgianMadCow Nov 2013 #118

The govt tried to hide the big secret for decades, but now the truth is out. Rex Nov 2013 #121

Apologist for this make me sick: you are disgusting TheSarcastinator Nov 2013 #81

Governments that turn authoritarian woo me with science Nov 2013 #87

Give it some time. Once there are more, they'll downshift into "it's pragmatic". Marr Nov 2013 #93

..and its already bleeding into corporate spying on citizen groups TheSarcastinator Nov 2013 #95

+1 Let's see. We already have sexual blackmail, fabrication of evidence trails for drug arrests, woo me with science Nov 2013 #115

Now we're getting to the good stuff... Blue_Tires Nov 2013 #89

This is what our highest paid officials do? And they get pensions too! Meanwhile crumbs for poor. Coyotl Nov 2013 #90

Why would Jaffer say this without offering any evidence to support this claim? randome Nov 2013 #92

Yes, why should we be upset TheSarcastinator Nov 2013 #96

Why would a news story use the word 'only' when they don't know if there are others? randome Nov 2013 #97

Appeal to ignorance TheSarcastinator Nov 2013 #107

That's why you were so supportive of Snowden, right? Oh, wait... Marr Nov 2013 #124

Snowden has released evidence that the NSA monitors foreign communications. randome Nov 2013 #125

This has been going on forever warrprayer Nov 2013 #99

Yup TheSarcastinator Nov 2013 #110

... SidDithers Nov 2013 #126

Should make the Anti-Porn crowd on DU happy Katashi_itto Nov 2013 #105

Gives "Make Love, Not War" a whole new meaning if just watching it is "Terra!". Tierra_y_Libertad Nov 2013 #113

Tactics used forever, just not with this technology. Rex Nov 2013 #120

Well, if they're gonna brag about it in e-mail... AnnieBW Nov 2013 #127

They got no business upi402 Nov 2013 #135

kick woo me with science Nov 2013 #139