General Discussion

Spider Jerusalem

(21,786 posts)

106. Clearly, you don't.

Wed Nov 27, 2013, 10:14 PM

Nov 2013

The paraffin test, or dermal nitrate test, is no longer admissible as evidence. The consensus of scientific opinion is that it is unreliable in providing evidence as to whether a suspect has fired a weapon. See here:

http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=av1RSleUnFcC&pg=PA41&lpg=PA41&dq=%22dermal+nitrate+test%22+unreliable&source=bl&ots=VPABfq2rv7&sig=dO0nIu2CI6STKOF561P5LsAbzvo&hl=en&sa=X&ei=paWWUr-dKMKj0QXeqIGQDA&ved=0CFEQ6AEwBA#v=onepage&q=%22dermal%20nitrate%20test%22%20unreliable&f=false

See also here, where it's called "obsolete and unreliable": http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=2lMnhQEC_YkC&pg=PA41&lpg=PA41&dq=%22dermal+nitrate+test%22+unreliable&source=bl&ots=FpzP2T-Nvq&sig=Ag6ii6r69XmOZ0_yoiX0vkaPBHI&hl=en&sa=X&ei=paWWUr-dKMKj0QXeqIGQDA&ved=0CFwQ6AEwBw#v=onepage&q=%22dermal%20nitrate%20test%22%20unreliable&f=false

See also HERE:

In the early 1960s, the paraffin test was discredited because of the high number of "false positives" uncovered in testing. Today, though still used by some police departments for interrogative purposes, paraffin tests are considered obsolete.

http://articles.philly.com/1986-05-06/news/26048015_1_gunshot-residue-saunders-murder-trial

And here: http://www.philstar.com/headlines/347835/pnp-paraffin-test-%C2%91junk-science%C2%92-says-subic-rape-witness

And here: https://www.ncjrs.gov/pdffiles1/Digitization/19449NCJRS.pdf

And here: http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=RIGXmHwL5zYC&pg=PT120&lpg=PT120&dq=%22dermal+nitrate+test%22&source=bl&ots=8b0Ap52ssG&sig=vmpPr5Usu-k_p4IHC21n6_mjsTQ&hl=en&sa=X&ei=pqaWUtLiFM2N0wXX7YDgBw&ved=0CKMBEOgBMBI#v=onepage&q=%22dermal%20nitrate%20test%22&f=false

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Salon: "the Warren Commission... was stacked with RFK�s political enemies" [View all] villager Nov 2013 OP

Mostly a book review but resets the perspective in important ways BlueStreak Nov 2013 #1

Exactly. The Lone Nut Theorists are desperate not to talk about the political atmosphere villager Nov 2013 #2

They are the equivalent of holocaust deniers BlueStreak Nov 2013 #3

"Dr. James Humes, the Navy pathologist....burned his original autopsy report in the fireplace villager Nov 2013 #6

Holocaust deniers! Wow! DanTex Nov 2013 #8

The forensic evidence is a distraction. Whether Oswald fired shots or did not is NOT the question sabrina 1 Nov 2013 #20

No it's not. It's the way to determine what is true and what is false. DanTex Nov 2013 #24

Try this link . . . brush Nov 2013 #97

Two birds with one stone BlueStreak Nov 2013 #130

lone gun (oswald did it) believers are like holocaust deniers now? backwoodsbob Nov 2013 #80

Really? The equivalent of holocaust deniers? The Midway Rebel Nov 2013 #91

While I don't believe Oswald acted alone, Blue_In_AK Nov 2013 #94

And THAT is exactly where the denier similarity lies. BlueStreak Nov 2013 #101

"You can't keep a secret like that�" Absolutely right, of course. Jackpine Radical Nov 2013 #126

discredit & marginalize for sure. But also intimidate and threated. BlueStreak Nov 2013 #128

Yes, discredit the whistle blowers. Maybe equate them with holocaust deniers on a public fourm. The Midway Rebel Nov 2013 #131

How does some of your own medicine taste? BlueStreak Nov 2013 #133

I wouldn't know. The Midway Rebel Nov 2013 #134

Nor the Fact that there are no real conspiracy theories about the attempted Reagan shooting. RC Nov 2013 #5

Hinkley lived to face examination BlueStreak Nov 2013 #40

On the contrary. Everyone agrees about the poisonous political atmosphere. DanTex Nov 2013 #7

In your view then, the rightwing generals just got "lucky?" villager Nov 2013 #10

So your view is the fact that JFK had enemies proves that it was a conspiracy? DanTex Nov 2013 #11

Of course, many leaders *were* killed as a result of a conspiracy... villager Nov 2013 #15

And many were not. Which means we have to *look at the hard evidence*. DanTex Nov 2013 #16

Motive and means were there, of course villager Nov 2013 #18

Motive and means are always present for any world leader. That prove nothing. DanTex Nov 2013 #21

So you don't think our domestic right-wing is actually capable of such things? villager Nov 2013 #23

The fact that they're capable doesn't mean that they did it. DanTex Nov 2013 #25

Well, that and all of Oswald's mob and CIA connections villager Nov 2013 #29

Jack Ruby was the one with mob "connections", not Oswald. DanTex Nov 2013 #33

Oswald's uncle was a bookie for the New Orleans mob. villager Nov 2013 #35

LOL. Well, that settles it. Definitely a mob hit! DanTex Nov 2013 #36

Glad you're getting a good laugh out of it all, DanTex! villager Nov 2013 #37

The mob hated JFK because of RFK's work against them, why would they want the Uncle Joe Nov 2013 #76

No, we have to look way behind the distraction of the 'ballistics, the forensic evidence etc which sabrina 1 Nov 2013 #22

"people are digging up more and more evidence of a conspiracy" DanTex Nov 2013 #27

No, it is far from 'zero' unless you don't want to see it. Fortunately a majority of people DO see sabrina 1 Nov 2013 #56

This made me LOL: "I think one day, maybe in the not-too-distant future, this crime will be solved" DanTex Nov 2013 #58

I don't find them credible. A common MO is to just make LNT statements with an GoneFishin Nov 2013 #49

A very simple question. MicaelS Nov 2013 #60

First he would have lived to have a trial. If he had not been so conveniently silenced, if it was sabrina 1 Nov 2013 #65

Since the possiblity of a trial is non-existent.. MicaelS Nov 2013 #73

So concentrating on what actually happened in Dealey Plaza is a distraction? Bolo Boffin Nov 2013 #64

There was a murder committed in a town not far from where I lived several years ago. They got the sabrina 1 Nov 2013 #66

Are you saying Oswald was the only person shooting that day? Bolo Boffin Nov 2013 #69

I don't have a problem accepting that. I don't know for sure but it doesn't alter much about the sabrina 1 Nov 2013 #110

Oswald's motive? MicaelS Nov 2013 #74

There are untold numbers of delusional people who want to be somebody important. Who want power and sabrina 1 Nov 2013 #111

So he denied killing the President, so what? MicaelS Nov 2013 #114

I was just told that his motive was to get attention, for the 'power and glory' of being the one to sabrina 1 Nov 2013 #115

You're 100% right. Thanks. nt. Mc Mike Nov 2013 #123

He did get attention. nyquil_man Nov 2013 #139

He apparently wasn't happy with WHY he got attention, since he addamently denied it and claimed sabrina 1 Nov 2013 #141

"What? No reporters?" nyquil_man Dec 2013 #142

and how pray tell backwoodsbob Nov 2013 #119

I hope the investigators weren't distracted by the forensic evidence. The Midway Rebel Nov 2013 #121

That Globe story was excellent. mattclearing Nov 2013 #120

Mafia, Castro, Diem, Birchers -- so many to choose from FarCenter Nov 2013 #4

The Mafia felt betrayed by Joe Kennedy Thirties Child Nov 2013 #13

Kennedy would have won without Illinois Art_from_Ark Nov 2013 #112

A former agent says the Secret Service was also stacked with enemies KurtNYC Nov 2013 #9

Warren commission:''Jack Ruby had no criminal connections" Ichingcarpenter Nov 2013 #12

Ruby had organized crime connections long before 46-47. former9thward Nov 2013 #32

Thanks.... just pointing out how bad the warren commission was Ichingcarpenter Nov 2013 #42

If you were investigating, what would be the biggest questions? BlueStreak Nov 2013 #132

Some Questions regarding Oswald and the Conspiracy Martin Eden Nov 2013 #14

The police gave Oswald a paraffin test and he passed. former9thward Nov 2013 #26

The WC had someone test-fire Oswald's rifle three times in rapid succession. DanTex Nov 2013 #30

Oh I know the paraffin test is always unreliable for Oswald. former9thward Nov 2013 #38

Actually, it's unreliable for everyone. DanTex Nov 2013 #41

The paraffin test is a reliable test used in criminal courts in this country. former9thward Nov 2013 #46

OK, so you're going to ignore the WC reproduction of the paraffin test. That figures. DanTex Nov 2013 #48

It was not just four flights of stairs ... former9thward Nov 2013 #50

The police tests did not have them arriving at about the same time. DanTex Nov 2013 #52

"The recreations included the time to stash the rifle" former9thward Nov 2013 #57

LOL. They know he didn't meander around the 6th floor looking for a place to stash the DanTex Nov 2013 #59

"some conspiracy nut on the internet" former9thward Nov 2013 #70

"Oswald was in the lunchroom the whole time." That's not what Oswald said. Bolo Boffin Nov 2013 #75

I have worked in a number of places. former9thward Nov 2013 #93

Not even a moment's acknowledgement of being wrong about where Oswald was Bolo Boffin Nov 2013 #100

"The rifle was found stashed under some boxes in the opposite corner of the 6th floor..." Bolo Boffin Nov 2013 #62

Wow, you were there. Well that settles it. former9thward Nov 2013 #67

Yes, I have been on the sixth floor. The rifle's hiding place was on the way to the staircase. Bolo Boffin Nov 2013 #68

You have given your memorized your verses from the WC Bible well. former9thward Nov 2013 #71

Facts are facts, former9thward. The hiding place for the rifle is along the path to the staircase. Bolo Boffin Nov 2013 #72

No, it isn't. Spider Jerusalem Nov 2013 #102

You don't know what you are talking about. former9thward Nov 2013 #105

Clearly, you don't. Spider Jerusalem Nov 2013 #106

"Peace-minded inner circle". Spider Jerusalem Nov 2013 #17

"... revelations that.. Robert Kennedy, never believed the Warren Report... villager Nov 2013 #19

Assertion unsupported by evidence. Spider Jerusalem Nov 2013 #31

RFK Jr: Dad believed Warren Commission "shoddy" villager Nov 2013 #34

RFK Jr is an ex-smackhead and crank. Spider Jerusalem Nov 2013 #53

Yes, we should only believe the woefully mis-named "Spider Jerusalem," villager Nov 2013 #54

"Debunk anything but the official story"...pfft. Spider Jerusalem Nov 2013 #61

No evidence? Uncle Joe Nov 2013 #79

And? Spider Jerusalem Nov 2013 #82

Did you read the last paragraph and my post #81? Uncle Joe Nov 2013 #83

And then there is this. Uncle Joe Nov 2013 #81

And then there's this, which calls that quote into question: Spider Jerusalem Nov 2013 #84

It doesn't take a great deal of common sense to know that if you're the Mafia intent on killing Uncle Joe Nov 2013 #86

Correlation is not causation. Spider Jerusalem Nov 2013 #90

Apparently Oswald didn't want to quit or get fired from that job unlike the other two Uncle Joe Nov 2013 #95

He couldn't possibly have known the route ahead of time. Spider Jerusalem Nov 2013 #96

Who planned the route? n/t Uncle Joe Nov 2013 #98

The Secret Service. After the selection of the Trade Mart. Spider Jerusalem Nov 2013 #99

The trip to Dallas had been planned for a long time but they added a day to it in Sept. That Uncle Joe Nov 2013 #103

And? Spider Jerusalem Nov 2013 #104

Of course he wasn't aware. But others were. Just one more historical coincidence, an amazing sabrina 1 Nov 2013 #113

... Spider Jerusalem Nov 2013 #116

Oswald The Patsy colsohlibgal Nov 2013 #28

HUGE K & R !!! WillyT Nov 2013 #39

If the shots were from the rear, how did JFK's brain material get on the trunk? FarCenter Nov 2013 #43

Because the shockwave of the bullet passing through his brain exploded his head. Spider Jerusalem Nov 2013 #47

And the car was moving forward ... GeorgeGist Nov 2013 #122

Several years ago, there was supposed to be a film released based on 2banon Nov 2013 #44

Yes, the existence of the sun is exactly like a JFK conspiracy! DanTex Nov 2013 #45

+1000. I agree on the "bizarre mission to "debunk" with strawman arguments etc." GoneFishin Nov 2013 #51

Posner's a goon. Major Hogwash Nov 2013 #77

Excellent points.. n/t 2banon Nov 2013 #78

Excellent piece. pacalo Nov 2013 #55

Yes It Is... WillyT Nov 2013 #87

Happy Thanksgiving, WillyT... pacalo Nov 2013 #107

Too bad David Talbot didn't name those political enemies of RFK Bolo Boffin Nov 2013 #63

Guess you'll have to buy his book. ucrdem Nov 2013 #85

No. Spend your money on something else. The Midway Rebel Nov 2013 #88

Don't You Just Love The Defense Of The Security State ??? WillyT Nov 2013 #92

its smug, rote-spewing ghouls have dutifully shown up in this thread villager Nov 2013 #108

Seig Heil, Baby... WillyT Nov 2013 #109

So I'm a Nazi????? Bolo Boffin Nov 2013 #117

I tried the second link you posted (from Google) alleging 'RFK chose Dulles' Mc Mike Nov 2013 #125

Walter Jenkins' memo to LBJ, November 29, 1963 Bolo Boffin Nov 2013 #127

Here's another link to the PDF on my Skydrive Bolo Boffin Nov 2013 #136

Thanks for the time you took to post the links, here and on your o.p., BB. Mc Mike Nov 2013 #140

Final Paragraph... WillyT Nov 2013 #89

Of course they assasinated him. upi402 Nov 2013 #118

Thanks, v. +1 rec. Mc Mike Nov 2013 #124

Thanks Mc Mike -- my avatar is actually a tribute to the late "PurityofEssence," villager Nov 2013 #135

I'm sorry about PoE's passing, and for your loss, villager. Mc Mike Nov 2013 #137

K & R MinM Nov 2013 #129

Two Warren Commissioners had extensive ties to NAZI Germany... Octafish Nov 2013 #138