General Discussion

LadyHawkAZ

(6,199 posts)

173. In the context of the law under discussion

Mon Dec 2, 2013, 07:31 PM

Dec 2013

the people discussing BDSM had some valid points, which went completely unaddressed in favor of "So you like watching women raped and tortured!!!" attacks, which was a distraction and "People who do that are sick and need help!" attacks, which was shaming and silencing. The reason no one was discussing "rape porn" in the context of actual rape footage is because there was no argument with the law on that basis- everyone agreed that it should warrant jail time, and no one defended it.

The objections to the law came in two forms- fictionalized "rape" scenes done by actors, and BDSM scenes done by consenting participants which might appear non-consensual in the context of the law. The broad wording of the law in question (and the assertion in the posted article that the government was going after "simulation&quot made it a legitimate focus, which got quickly derailed by the "So you like watching women raped and tortured, you rape defender you!!!" crowd, and the discussion devolved from there.

A couple people did make a blanket condemnation of all porn, which has now devolved into whole new OPs making blanket condemnations of all porn.

The threads were a train wreck of people talking completely past each other, half of whom weren't making any contextual sense, and many just not bothering to listen.

Long story short- it wasn't, and isn't, just about rape porn.

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Is porn bad now? I find it a weird topic for anything called "Democratic Underground"... [View all] whttevrr Dec 2013 OP

Its a tiny group of feminists who are telling us about the evils of porn quinnox Dec 2013 #1

A small group, yes but they've taken bullying and shouting to obnoxious new levels. n/t leeroysphitz Dec 2013 #2

yep, this is one of those topics that really gets them crusading quinnox Dec 2013 #3

yep, and they congregate in their safe-haven forum BuddhaGirl Dec 2013 #161

Remember meta? Warren DeMontague Dec 2013 #181

oh yes! BuddhaGirl Dec 2013 #220

I t kind of looks more balanced to me el_bryanto Dec 2013 #5

What!? whttevrr Dec 2013 #9

Yes, the natural follow up to The Pit Bull Wars LordGlenconner Dec 2013 #42

Oh, ok... whttevrr Dec 2013 #47

I long for the days of the Great Foreskin Debates.... truebrit71 Dec 2013 #88

Ohhhh... It seems It is hard... whttevrr Dec 2013 #7

What are the.... NCTraveler Dec 2013 #112

Really? whttevrr Dec 2013 #117

I thought they were Rick Santorum supporters. Vashta Nerada Dec 2013 #23

That's really low. historylovr Dec 2013 #110

Oh.... bullshit. hunter Dec 2013 #71

Any hints as to where to start? greiner3 Dec 2013 #106

+1 nomorenomore08 Dec 2013 #177

Some days are better than others .... MindMover Dec 2013 #203

Oh dear, did SRS find its way to DU? Jester Messiah Dec 2013 #82

Slight correction, a small group that use the COVER of being feminists to inflict their Katashi_itto Dec 2013 #90

This message was self-deleted by its author polly7 Dec 2013 #97

Oh good, so happy that you have figured me out Tumbulu Dec 2013 #274

on some days hfojvt Dec 2013 #276

I don't bother to try to figure any of you out. Most of the anti-porn crowd here, Freud would Katashi_itto Dec 2013 #287

Oh, boy. Comrade Grumpy Dec 2013 #4

You're witnessing an era of prudishness that is, frankly, embarrassing. NYC_SKP Dec 2013 #6

"don't like any form of porn or nudity or discussion about sex" Scout Dec 2013 #10

well, I think it is embarrassing to see people who ought to know better still kvetching about CTyankee Dec 2013 #139

It's not prudishness, rrneck Dec 2013 #144

If it doesn't fit the doctrine, it must be evil? xulamaude Dec 2013 #155

Every ideology has a fundamentalist streak. rrneck Dec 2013 #164

"orgy of emotional projection and sanctimony" xulamaude Dec 2013 #165

Then why don't you solve the problem for us. rrneck Dec 2013 #166

That's great. Ask me to solve the problem. xulamaude Dec 2013 #169

Indeed, you may not think it's a problem. rrneck Dec 2013 #171

You are not used to being 'silenced', are you? xulamaude Dec 2013 #179

I'm not used to backing down when I'm being insulted. rrneck Dec 2013 #187

"Do you think porn is bad?" xulamaude Dec 2013 #209

You're free to qualify in any way you see fit. rrneck Dec 2013 #210

No, thank you. nt xulamaude Dec 2013 #212

rrneck I support what you are saying anneboleyn Dec 2013 #214

And I yours. rrneck Dec 2013 #217

When you say "women", do you include MTF transsexuals in that category? Warren DeMontague Dec 2013 #194

Of course. xulamaude Dec 2013 #208

Indeed. Warren DeMontague Dec 2013 #221

Speak for yourself. polly7 Dec 2013 #222

"who doesn't say exactly what she feels." xulamaude Dec 2013 #227

You said 'most women', which I assumed included most of us. polly7 Dec 2013 #228

Yes. I meant "most" to include most women on planet Earth xulamaude Dec 2013 #229

As do I. polly7 Dec 2013 #230

Okay. The rest of your post makes your point clear. xulamaude Dec 2013 #231

I do include the trafficking of every human being. polly7 Dec 2013 #232

"Why are you trying to imply" & "Isn't that a bit self-serving?" xulamaude Dec 2013 #233

You really need to make up your mind. polly7 Dec 2013 #234

And thanks again. I'll keep that in mind. nt xulamaude Dec 2013 #235

Heh "it's irrational to dislike porn" thanks for that 'rational' contribution. geek tragedy Dec 2013 #192

Close but no cigar. rrneck Dec 2013 #195

There's not much to do in the real world re: porn, that ship sailed long ago. geek tragedy Dec 2013 #197

I agree. rrneck Dec 2013 #200

It's a big mistake to conflate sex and porn. geek tragedy Dec 2013 #189

Oh this is ridiculous Tumbulu Dec 2013 #275

You would be hard-pressed, my friend, to tie anything I've written to violence against women. NYC_SKP Dec 2013 #277

well calling anyone who is concerned about normalizing Tumbulu Dec 2013 #279

Simple question. Bonobo Dec 2013 #281

What you and your partner do are not my business Tumbulu Dec 2013 #295

More cluelessness about what porn really is about. duffyduff Dec 2013 #8

You're confabulating a conflation of illegal and legal. whttevrr Dec 2013 #11

Have you ever heard of a porn convention? giftedgirl77 Dec 2013 #45

ACN is the second biggest convention of the year here. Egalitarian Thug Dec 2013 #104

and I bet nobody was there bound and gaggged? giftedgirl77 Dec 2013 #125

That's always been the problem in both porn and prostitution. Egalitarian Thug Dec 2013 #142

Yeppers, it's amazing if you compare the US to giftedgirl77 Dec 2013 #149

...but one must never, ever acknowledge that. Egalitarian Thug Dec 2013 #154

lololol my kids grew up on South Beach giftedgirl77 Dec 2013 #159

99% of the porn out there is homemade. LAGC Dec 2013 #167

this is the disconnect that i see on DU, its like porn is stuck in 1970 loli phabay Dec 2013 #168

And every time the prudes post any kind of"study" showing how "exploitative" porn is... LAGC Dec 2013 #170

To a certain extent, people see what they want to see. Hence the black-and-white thinking nomorenomore08 Dec 2013 #183

yup on both sides, but this disconnect to whats on the internet confuses me loli phabay Dec 2013 #184

Or they focus on the minority of material that is overtly violent and abusive. nomorenomore08 Dec 2013 #190

DU as a population has a lot of baby boomers. Jesus Malverde Dec 2013 #191

I've tried to beat a couple of the anti-porners over the head with that fact. Xithras Dec 2013 #237

There are still plenty of links to traditional pay sites, and they obviously make plenty of money R B Garr Dec 2013 #273

It's the latest "crusade". HappyMe Dec 2013 #12

I don't know... whttevrr Dec 2013 #13

Yes, any reasonable person would think that. HappyMe Dec 2013 #15

Yeah, they usually just chalk that up to internalized misogyny. name not needed Dec 2013 #17

What? HappyMe Dec 2013 #26

More than that. tammywammy Dec 2013 #30

I have yet to receive my pat. LadyHawkAZ Dec 2013 #108

Each of us 'da menz' on DU take turns doing the DU patting. We each get an hour. stevenleser Dec 2013 #109

I got my pat! polly7 Dec 2013 #114

Yeah... cuz for a minute there I was like: whttevrr Dec 2013 #118

yeah sorry, whatevrr .... polly7 Dec 2013 #124

There was an OP handing out boyfriends??? LadyHawkAZ Dec 2013 #120

Darn, I'm taking * for a massive headache and not making myself clear. polly7 Dec 2013 #129

lol whttevrr Dec 2013 #130

That's ok, Lady.. There's enough of me to go around! opiate69 Dec 2013 #267

I'm happy to share if Polly and the wife don't mind LadyHawkAZ Dec 2013 #268

Pat pat pat, cuddle:) grahamhgreen Dec 2013 #242

Yep, and called dogs by other women. RiffRandell Dec 2013 #119

Geez. How has that not been hidden? LadyHawkAZ Dec 2013 #121

No idea. RiffRandell Dec 2013 #123

Not nice at all LadyHawkAZ Dec 2013 #131

Thanks Lady. RiffRandell Dec 2013 #143

In honor of your sig LadyHawkAZ Dec 2013 #150

That was terrible! Sissyk Dec 2013 #178

Wow. Classy. polly7 Dec 2013 #135

Yup. nt RiffRandell Dec 2013 #145

Maybe that poster will do another one of their epic mass self-deletes. Warren DeMontague Dec 2013 #182

wow RainDog Dec 2013 #226

fwiw RainDog Dec 2013 #255

I appreciate your post, but I think it was directed at me. RiffRandell Dec 2013 #256

hugs to you RainDog Dec 2013 #257

fyi RainDog Dec 2013 #270

Well, to hear some say it... TreasonousBastard Dec 2013 #25

You mean women don't like being looked at? whttevrr Dec 2013 #50

They tell me it's to make themselves feel good, so... TreasonousBastard Dec 2013 #52

Copy That... whttevrr Dec 2013 #54

One study claimed that a third of Internet porn viewers are women. Which doesn't strike me nomorenomore08 Dec 2013 #185

Some people are obsessed with porn...Be a porn star one day, anti porn crusader the next! snooper2 Dec 2013 #14

lol! HappyMe Dec 2013 #18

Guess we should't tell them about porn conventions then? giftedgirl77 Dec 2013 #49

Shhh! HappyMe Dec 2013 #57

I grew up in Florida, the strip clubs always had giftedgirl77 Dec 2013 #62

Strange that on a progressive board we're talking about limits on sexuality LittleBlue Dec 2013 #16

You aren't kidding! NutmegYankee Dec 2013 #19

Agreed LittleBlue Dec 2013 #21

Yeah, it is quite disconcerting. whttevrr Dec 2013 #29

That's because they have DEFINED porn that way MNBrewer Dec 2013 #98

so we aren't supposed to talk about workers being exploited? KittyWampus Dec 2013 #20

There's no concern here for workers LittleBlue Dec 2013 #28

"It's a thinly-veiled cover for their sexual issues." xulamaude Dec 2013 #148

If it was really about that you'd think they'd start threads about it. tammywammy Dec 2013 #36

This is the United States NutmegYankee Dec 2013 #46

So, porn based on exploiting and abusing workers= just fine cause a few DU'ers KittyWampus Dec 2013 #22

the problem is that some people cant differentiate between the words consent and non consent loli phabay Dec 2013 #27

sorry, but I'm entititled to my OPINION about porn. cali Dec 2013 #33

you can have an opinion, but do i care what it is, no loli phabay Dec 2013 #38

Libertinism was born in pre-Revolution France. It seems appropriate for it to become "new again" now KittyWampus Dec 2013 #34

so tell me how is that consent manufactured with amateur cam to cam porn loli phabay Dec 2013 #41

tell me the proportional relationship is between Walmart and that little gift shop on the corner. KittyWampus Dec 2013 #151

you still have not answered the question, not that i expect you too loli phabay Dec 2013 #158

Boners are more important than principles. nt geek tragedy Dec 2013 #188

Yes, I feel so sorry for these poor exploited/abused workers... EX500rider Dec 2013 #218

so now we're not supposed to have an opinion that YOU don't like? fuck that shit cali Dec 2013 #24

Nooo... whttevrr Dec 2013 #35

uh, no you didn't. you asked rhetorical questions that clearly depicted your opinion. cali Dec 2013 #64

It wasn't entirely rhetorical... But are you now saying that I can't express my opinion? whttevrr Dec 2013 #67

express it all you wish, just don't bullshit about it being a couple of questions. cali Dec 2013 #76

Well, to be fair rrneck Dec 2013 #81

The idea that you're "entitled" to an opinion about what other consenting adults do MNBrewer Dec 2013 #99

you cant tell the morality police to butt out, they are there to save us loli phabay Dec 2013 #116

+10000 giftedgirl77 Dec 2013 #163

Weird over reaction much? TransitJohn Dec 2013 #269

Is Fox News bad? DanTex Dec 2013 #31

I wouldn't vote to lock a thread on porn, unless you go where no one should go. Baitball Blogger Dec 2013 #32

legal with consenting adults is what I am talking about. whttevrr Dec 2013 #39

I was on that jury pintobean Dec 2013 #40

When can we move on to smoking, or the Olive Garden? How about fat people? That's always a 300 MADem Dec 2013 #37

I love my porn with fat smoking people taterguy Dec 2013 #43

You're sick... whttevrr Dec 2013 #53

So? taterguy Dec 2013 #55

It seems safe to judge you... whttevrr Dec 2013 #65

OMG--that certainly sounds like a "Taterguy exception" to me.... MADem Dec 2013 #79

This message was self-deleted by its author Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin Dec 2013 #265

Olive Oil? Prevert! n/t cherokeeprogressive Dec 2013 #85

Smoking while covered in olive oil? Isn't that dangerous? ;-) n/t eggplant Dec 2013 #94

No but getting the stray ashes off your body is a pain taterguy Dec 2013 #102

It's like being low tarred and feathered. ;-) eggplant Dec 2013 #215

tough break cemaphonic Dec 2013 #156

Speaking of fat people, I was just listening to Terry Gross... TreasonousBastard Dec 2013 #58

"Gross!" That last name has a rather "weighty" root! MADem Dec 2013 #75

I eat too much lillypaddle Dec 2013 #91

I resemble that remark! MADem Dec 2013 #93

Yeah, it sucks lillypaddle Dec 2013 #175

OK, here's a few.. TreasonousBastard Dec 2013 #238

LOL! lillypaddle Dec 2013 #247

Laughter creates endorphins, and burns calories too! nt MADem Dec 2013 #266

Of course lillypaddle Dec 2013 #271

You forgot Red Velvet... whttevrr Dec 2013 #289

And .... puddin'!!!! MADem Dec 2013 #290

Meh, puddin I can pass by easily... whttevrr Dec 2013 #292

I can pass up cake! Regular cake, cupcakes--I have great willpower with those... MADem Dec 2013 #293

I wasn't here for kudzu. Sissyk Dec 2013 #95

OMG, I forgot about that 'un! MADem Dec 2013 #96

Moon Bombing Warren DeMontague Dec 2013 #240

The Moon Bombing I read. Sissyk Dec 2013 #259

What happened ismnotwasm Dec 2013 #44

Yeah, rape porn is fucked up... whttevrr Dec 2013 #61

This message was self-deleted by its author seaglass Dec 2013 #260

I don't think I deserve congratulations... whttevrr Dec 2013 #262

This message was self-deleted by its author seaglass Dec 2013 #264

Liberalism is largely dead, replaced by tedious Orwellian authoritarianism cthulu2016 Dec 2013 #48

Agree with that last paragraph ismnotwasm Dec 2013 #51

If by zooming you mean insulting, then I'm pretty sure that most of the blame resides with that EOTE Dec 2013 #294

The reason there are no real comedy porn movies is because porn movies are laughable already. Lint Head Dec 2013 #56

lol, your watching the wrong kind buddy. loli phabay Dec 2013 #59

Used to be a fair number of hilarious porn flicks back when... TreasonousBastard Dec 2013 #60

to be fair i think its hilarious if its not your kink so to speak, loli phabay Dec 2013 #63

Furry porn? Where is THAT... TreasonousBastard Dec 2013 #69

i cant link to it here, but there are a few forums that cater to it loli phabay Dec 2013 #72

Oh, man... that's gonna shake up some people... TreasonousBastard Dec 2013 #73

Well, I just goggled... TreasonousBastard Dec 2013 #239

the best way to actually ahem view it is through a dedicated website loli phabay Dec 2013 #249

Ever watch the movie "One Eyed Monster"? ismnotwasm Dec 2013 #66

Sounds familiar, but we're going back many years and I barely remember... TreasonousBastard Dec 2013 #70

Oh this one is only a few years old ismnotwasm Dec 2013 #78

I'll look for it. There have been porn/horror... TreasonousBastard Dec 2013 #80

Never saw it. Sounds interesting. Lint Head Dec 2013 #133

We have a few DUers who call threads "sexist" and "porn" far too often. In_The_Wind Dec 2013 #68

Hah... Amazon came! whttevrr Dec 2013 #74

Smart TV? I don't even have a Smart PHONE!!!!! nt MADem Dec 2013 #207

Not today... ScreamingMeemie Dec 2013 #77

which Niceguy1 Dec 2013 #89

Try reading one of the threads, instead of just the title Scootaloo Dec 2013 #83

I'm not afraid of it. rrneck Dec 2013 #87

Is anyone really advocating rape porn here? whttevrr Dec 2013 #105

I didn't say they were Scootaloo Dec 2013 #113

+1. It certainly is something. historylovr Dec 2013 #115

In the context of the law under discussion LadyHawkAZ Dec 2013 #173

No, that would be the broad brush gollygee Dec 2013 #122

Yeah, I really have to wonder who actually "gets off" on some of this stuff. Rather scary thought. nomorenomore08 Dec 2013 #205

Thank you! smirkymonkey Dec 2013 #263

In the original thread, there were several saying it's fine muriel_volestrangler Dec 2013 #153

In a time when rrneck Dec 2013 #84

"Let's you and him fight." klook Dec 2013 #86

It's just the Dworkinites Capt. Obvious Dec 2013 #92

So, in your opinion, everyone loves porn except the Rick Santorums and Andrew Dworkins of the world? geek tragedy Dec 2013 #193

That's Andrea Dworkin.. Upton Dec 2013 #201

No, but I suspect were one to get a full, honest, statistical assesment of the situation Warren DeMontague Dec 2013 #223

Don't put words in my mouth Capt. Obvious Dec 2013 #253

This is another opportunity for the self-righteous to bully others that they rhett o rick Dec 2013 #100

Just a few clarifications... It's not a rhetorical device to enforce my opinion. whttevrr Dec 2013 #101

I imagine social issues cross various strata's of perceived rights... LanternWaste Dec 2013 #103

DU is getting to be a tough place to be lately..... Bennyboy Dec 2013 #107

Skip the dramatics. WinkyDink Dec 2013 #136

agree with this cbdo2007 Dec 2013 #141

He had a thread hidden today pintobean Dec 2013 #162

Wow. JTFrog Dec 2013 #285

For one.... NCTraveler Dec 2013 #111

Most people only go to their jobs because of a monetary incentive... davidn3600 Dec 2013 #126

I don't get your line of thinking. NCTraveler Dec 2013 #128

You stated that women only do porn because of the money and therefore it isn't true "consent" davidn3600 Dec 2013 #140

Your analogy is baseless. WinkyDink Dec 2013 #137

Yikes! whttevrr Dec 2013 #127

To start your reply you put words in my mouth. NCTraveler Dec 2013 #134

lol whttevrr Dec 2013 #146

I myself would have gone with the OP in its entirety if we're voting for... LanternWaste Dec 2013 #174

Excellent U4ikLefty Dec 2013 #280

Ok, porn discussion aside, Tien1985 Dec 2013 #278

Yes, it was troglodytic of me... whttevrr Dec 2013 #283

It's fine Tien1985 Dec 2013 #288

Wrong LittleBlue Dec 2013 #138

This. Vashta Nerada Dec 2013 #147

+1. Laelth Dec 2013 #254

Most porn has nothing to do with monetary incentive, Codeine Dec 2013 #225

Why would you equate Democrats with porn? That's what my Fundie Republican in-laws do. WinkyDink Dec 2013 #132

I don't equate Democrats with porn. whttevrr Dec 2013 #152

"Is porn bad now?" ZombieHorde Dec 2013 #157

There will always be a demand for porn, B Calm Dec 2013 #160

The authoritarian feminists want to try to bring back the Feminist Sex War of the 80s... davidn3600 Dec 2013 #172

No, not at all. JimboBillyBubbaBob Dec 2013 #176

People like sex. People like cameras. People like computers and tvs. Warren DeMontague Dec 2013 #180

But..... but...... but......!!! MADem Dec 2013 #196

But I DO support their right to do so. I even encourage and assist it. Warren DeMontague Dec 2013 #198

Thank you Warren maddezmom Dec 2013 #199

Jus' tryin to help! Warren DeMontague Dec 2013 #204

What DU needs is a good PORN GROUP, then!!!!! MADem Dec 2013 #206

there is a good 50% of this place that I stopped taking seriously a while back. Warren DeMontague Dec 2013 #241

The train wreck is the PARTY, then....! MADem Dec 2013 #243

Yeah, we were discussing Andy Kaufman, right? Warren DeMontague Dec 2013 #244

OMG, that website is a GEM!!!! MADem Dec 2013 #245

:D Warren DeMontague Dec 2013 #246

Great website! Bonobo Dec 2013 #248

Porn isn't sex, it's capitalism. geek tragedy Dec 2013 #186

There's a number of thinmgs going on Prophet 451 Dec 2013 #202

There's about a half dozen militant wannabe censors. 99Forever Dec 2013 #211

lol. they really hate it when you simply act too squicky for them to deal with. eggplant Dec 2013 #216

Squicky? 99Forever Dec 2013 #219

Urban Dictionary is your friend eggplant Dec 2013 #224

Message auto-removed Name removed Dec 2013 #213

Unfortunately a lot of DU's are not for freedom on a lot of topics. hugo_from_TN Dec 2013 #236

Oh... cuz it's squicky? whttevrr Dec 2013 #250

It's someone's personal campaign GladRagDahl Dec 2013 #251

Touche' whttevrr Dec 2013 #252

fwiw RainDog Dec 2013 #258

I dont think Porn is bad. I look at it often. Mrdrboi Dec 2013 #261

Pornography isn't what drives human trafficking or rapes Harmony Blue Dec 2013 #272

On the plus side, we didn't really have to have a giant argument on the ethics of turkey eating over Warren DeMontague Dec 2013 #282

If I aided in the dissolution of the Turkey Eating Debate in any way... whttevrr Dec 2013 #284

It's like a corollary to the idea "when one door closes, another one opens" Warren DeMontague Dec 2013 #286

It seems most people here agree. whttevrr Dec 2013 #291

this thread is about building a caricature, with absolutely no sustenance in a single post. yet, seabeyond Dec 2013 #296

I take exception to your caricaturization of the portrayal of 'the women' on DU. It's hyperbolic... whttevrr Dec 2013 #297