Welcome to DU!
The truly grassroots left-of-center political community where regular people, not algorithms, drive the discussions and set the standards.
Join the community:
Create a free account
Support DU (and get rid of ads!):
Become a Star Member
Latest Breaking News
Editorials & Other Articles
General Discussion
The DU Lounge
All Forums
Issue Forums
Culture Forums
Alliance Forums
Region Forums
Support Forums
Help & Search
General Discussion
In reply to the discussion: WOW...Glenn Greenwald Strikes Back! NEW Revelations of Media Funding! [View all]KoKo
(84,711 posts)105. Greenwald explains here:
http://utdocuments.blogspot.com.br/2013/12/questionsresponses-for-journalists.html
I'm asked why not Dump all the documents at once on the internet. As one of the most vocal and long-time supporters of WikiLeaks, this is a model that I endorse in some cases (though WikiLeaks also redacted documents it published and still withholds others it possesses for very justifiable reasons; they also only publish documents once they've vetted, authenticated and understood them). I completely empathize with those arguing this: as I've said many times, the complaint that we've published too little is infinitely more valid than the complaint that we've published too much. But there are so many reasons why this dump-it-all approach makes no sense in this particular case.
To begin with, doing this would violently breach the agreement we made with our source. Edward Snowden knows how the internet works. If he had wanted all the documents uploaded onto the internet, he could have - and would have - done that himself. Or he could have told us to do it, or given it to a group with instructions to do that. Quite obviously, he did none none of that.
He did the opposite: he came to journalists he personally selected, and asked that we only publish with media organizations. He also asked that we very carefully vet the material he gave us and only publish that which would be recognized as in the public interest but not anything which could be said to endanger the lives of innocent people. His primary concern has always been that the focus be on the substance of what the NSA is doing, and knew that mass, indiscriminate publication would drown meaningful discussions with accusations of how we recklessly helped The Terrorists, the Chinese, and every other World Villain.
I'm absolutely convinced that the agreement we made with our source for how these documents were to be reported was the right one. Had we just published them all without any context, discrimination or reporting, the impact - for so many reasons - would have been far, far less than the slow, incremental and careful reporting we've done.
But at this point, that debate doesn't matter: those demanding that we just publish all of the documents without regard to their consequences or content are demanding that we ignore and violate our agreement with our source, and we're never going to do that no matter who doesn't like it. And as our source has repeatedly proven: if he's unhappy about how matters are proceeding or has something to say, he's more than willing and able to speak out. He hasn't done so about this because the way we've reported these documents is completely consistent with the agreement and methodology he insisted upon.
Moreover, those demanding that all of these documents be published indiscriminately are completely ignoring the very real legal risks for everyone involved in this process, beginning with Snowden, who already faces 30 years in prison and is currently protected only by 9 more months of temporary asylum in Russia. Everyone involved in the publication of these materials has already undertaken substantial legal risk.
Just like it's cheap and easy for war advocates to demand that others go and risk their lives to fight the wars they cheer, it's very cheap and easy to demand that others (including Snowden) undertake even more legal risk by publishing all of these documents. Everyone has the right to decide for themselves what risks they're willing to endure, and if you aren't taking any yourselves for the cause you claim to support, then perhaps it's worth considering whether others are entitled to the same consideration you give yourself.
I'd also like to test whether those who argue this are being genuine. Should we really publish everything we have without redactions or regard to their consequences? Speaking purely hypothetically:
http://utdocuments.blogspot.com.br/2013/12/questionsresponses-for-journalists.html
I'm asked why not Dump all the documents at once on the internet. As one of the most vocal and long-time supporters of WikiLeaks, this is a model that I endorse in some cases (though WikiLeaks also redacted documents it published and still withholds others it possesses for very justifiable reasons; they also only publish documents once they've vetted, authenticated and understood them). I completely empathize with those arguing this: as I've said many times, the complaint that we've published too little is infinitely more valid than the complaint that we've published too much. But there are so many reasons why this dump-it-all approach makes no sense in this particular case.
To begin with, doing this would violently breach the agreement we made with our source. Edward Snowden knows how the internet works. If he had wanted all the documents uploaded onto the internet, he could have - and would have - done that himself. Or he could have told us to do it, or given it to a group with instructions to do that. Quite obviously, he did none none of that.
He did the opposite: he came to journalists he personally selected, and asked that we only publish with media organizations. He also asked that we very carefully vet the material he gave us and only publish that which would be recognized as in the public interest but not anything which could be said to endanger the lives of innocent people. His primary concern has always been that the focus be on the substance of what the NSA is doing, and knew that mass, indiscriminate publication would drown meaningful discussions with accusations of how we recklessly helped The Terrorists, the Chinese, and every other World Villain.
I'm absolutely convinced that the agreement we made with our source for how these documents were to be reported was the right one. Had we just published them all without any context, discrimination or reporting, the impact - for so many reasons - would have been far, far less than the slow, incremental and careful reporting we've done.
But at this point, that debate doesn't matter: those demanding that we just publish all of the documents without regard to their consequences or content are demanding that we ignore and violate our agreement with our source, and we're never going to do that no matter who doesn't like it. And as our source has repeatedly proven: if he's unhappy about how matters are proceeding or has something to say, he's more than willing and able to speak out. He hasn't done so about this because the way we've reported these documents is completely consistent with the agreement and methodology he insisted upon.
Moreover, those demanding that all of these documents be published indiscriminately are completely ignoring the very real legal risks for everyone involved in this process, beginning with Snowden, who already faces 30 years in prison and is currently protected only by 9 more months of temporary asylum in Russia. Everyone involved in the publication of these materials has already undertaken substantial legal risk.
Just like it's cheap and easy for war advocates to demand that others go and risk their lives to fight the wars they cheer, it's very cheap and easy to demand that others (including Snowden) undertake even more legal risk by publishing all of these documents. Everyone has the right to decide for themselves what risks they're willing to endure, and if you aren't taking any yourselves for the cause you claim to support, then perhaps it's worth considering whether others are entitled to the same consideration you give yourself.
I'd also like to test whether those who argue this are being genuine. Should we really publish everything we have without redactions or regard to their consequences? Speaking purely hypothetically:
http://utdocuments.blogspot.com.br/2013/12/questionsresponses-for-journalists.html
Edit history
Please sign in to view edit histories.
Recommendations
0 members have recommended this reply (displayed in chronological order):
177 replies
= new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight:
NoneDon't highlight anything
5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
RecommendedHighlight replies with 5 or more recommendations
Lol, see my thanks to Sid below. I would probably not have found this if wasn't for him.
sabrina 1
Dec 2013
#5
Once again you helped me find this great thread. Greenwald, one of the few real journalists left in
sabrina 1
Dec 2013
#4
Ah yes, Greenwald indeed - he must have missed seeing his name in the headlines.....
George II
Dec 2013
#34
Attack points? He's referred to as an "American" journalist, why is he in South America?
George II
Dec 2013
#63
When a poster called you out on ad hominem attack, you started talking about where he lives.
merrily
Dec 2013
#93
Okay, how is what I said originally an "ad hominem attack"? People LOVE to throw...
George II
Dec 2013
#103
You rewrote what I said, I never said anything CLOSE to what you have in "quotes"!
George II
Dec 2013
#147
So what were you trying to say about Greenwald? Did you not 'imply' and then double down
sabrina 1
Dec 2013
#151
I was born in Brooklyn, grew up in New York City and now live in Connecticut....
George II
Dec 2013
#149
Why is that so important to you? For your information, which is basically NOT your business...
George II
Dec 2013
#173
Rather presumptuous, aren't you? Now, as to the assassination question - any?
George II
Dec 2013
#62
Where they live seems irrelevant to begin with. However, to the extent it matters at all,
merrily
Dec 2013
#90
And it's just as plausible the facts on U.S. Immigration law he points out are the reason, too.
Hissyspit
Dec 2013
#114
Well, to be accurate, Greenwald probably fled America because of the tax issues...
randome
Dec 2013
#64
He said it very publicly. I'm willing to take his word for it. Besides, just like we all
merrily
Dec 2013
#81
It's not much of an attack. The question was raised why he prefers to live in Brazil.
randome
Dec 2013
#83
Again, Greenwald's life choices change nothing. Point is, the NSA's activities, not Greenwald's.
merrily
Dec 2013
#85
How can you put "to be accurate" and "probably" in the same sentence and keep a straight
rhett o rick
Dec 2013
#128
When someone jumps into a thread with nothing but derision, I wonder what their agenda really is.
rhett o rick
Dec 2013
#130
Wait, wasn't the criticism of Manning and Wikileaks that the did THE OPPOSITE. I am sure
sabrina 1
Dec 2013
#76
I take it you choose to follow Gen Clapper and Gen Alexander and smite those that dare speak truth
rhett o rick
Dec 2013
#129
Thanks for your wonderful, insightful, meaningful, fulfilling and full of it contribution.
L0oniX
Dec 2013
#59
Hey Sid...wanna make a bet? FATCA hits Greenwald soon...so I am betting that
msanthrope
Dec 2013
#70
It's the Koch/Libertarian money of the past few years he'd have to disclose.
msanthrope
Dec 2013
#91
Looks to me like you choose the wrong side in this class war. You think your
rhett o rick
Dec 2013
#131
I find it curious that you go to such great lengths to deride those that speak truth
rhett o rick
Dec 2013
#158
I find it curious that you go to great lengths to defend a Libertarian who receives
msanthrope
Dec 2013
#160
Your rationalizations must be the key to your happiness. You choose to attack
rhett o rick
Dec 2013
#161
I'm glad she's not running. She's one of the strongest Senators we've fielded in a great
msanthrope
Dec 2013
#167
PandoDaily, and NSFWCorp, where Ames came from, are big enough to make news
muriel_volestrangler
Dec 2013
#43
Only the highest, most mature level of intellectual analysis and political philosophy.
merrily
Dec 2013
#82
Does Greenwald have additional revelations to reveal? I believe he's claimed to.
el_bryanto
Dec 2013
#47
No, as if dwelling only on his tax issues and where he lives now and only those
merrily
Dec 2013
#101
I was not aware of a specific %, but I was aware that a lot more material remains unpublished
merrily
Dec 2013
#97
I mind that less than I mind how quietly "my fellow Americans" take almost any news.
merrily
Dec 2013
#100