General Discussion

Octafish

(55,745 posts)

163. That started in April 1961...

Tue Dec 3, 2013, 03:56 PM

Dec 2013

The history shows Dulles knew the Bay of Pigs would fail. CIA itself knew that Castro knew the time and place for the attack. The Pentagon thought the plan had, at best, 25-percent chance of success, yet let JFK think it was viable the people of Cuba would rise up and overthrow the guy who tossed out the longtime corrupt tyrant, friend of both the U.S. Mafia and Richard M. Nixon. So, knowing the plan was compromised, let alone stupid from a military and political point of view, Dulles and Co. failed to inform the President. How is that not treason?

Relations with DCI Dulles and JCS Chief Gen. Lyman Lemnitzer must've gotten really strained in July 1961 when they proposed the United States launch an all-out nuclear attack on the Soviet Union in Fall of 1963. Their rationale was that the United States would hold its optimum military advantage then. It seems they didn't care if the U.S. suffered the loss of more than a few major cities; beating the Communists was worth it.

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JFK Conference: David Talbot named Allen Dulles as 'the Chairman of the Board of the Assassination' [View all] Octafish Nov 2013 OP

I think Obama may be facing the same kind of opposition and a lot of things are beyond kelliekat44 Nov 2013 #1

My thoughts on the eve of Predident Obama's inauguration... Octafish Nov 2013 #28

You called that one spot on, too Octafish. loudsue Nov 2013 #74

I disagree with you. Unknown Beatle Jan 2016 #180

Dulles (R - BFEE - Occultist) Berlum Nov 2013 #2

Cloak and Dagger had no place on the Warren Commission... Octafish Nov 2013 #32

Omg! I knew a little about this, but like so many others, found it hard to process. But if we are sabrina 1 Nov 2013 #71

Boston Globe: RFK never believed the Warren Commission MinM Jul 2015 #177

I suppose it would make many of our heads to spin... JimboBillyBubbaBob Nov 2013 #3

I'm not sure if we can handle the truth. (n/t) spin Nov 2013 #5

Indeed, be care with those United Fruit people DrDebug Nov 2013 #4

Rec your post! Demeter Nov 2013 #11

Allen Dulles and JCS chairman Lemnitzer told JFK the best time to attack USSR was 'Fall 1963' Octafish Nov 2013 #20

Very interesting story DrDebug Nov 2013 #73

I missed this when it first came up--this is crucial lost history yurbud Mar 2014 #176

Thank you for this post and the cartoon. LongTomH Nov 2013 #23

This message was self-deleted by its author MFrohike Nov 2013 #46

A lot of people probably don't know this major policy speech President Kennedy gave... Historic NY Nov 2013 #98

Thanks for that! n/t hootinholler Nov 2013 #105

Thank you, Historic NY! Octafish Dec 2013 #161

Thank you for posting that lake loon Nov 2013 #123

Can you state, in simple, declarative sentences, Dreamer Tatum Nov 2013 #6

I think it only fair if you go first. nm rhett o rick Nov 2013 #7

Really? Ok. Lee Harvey Oswald, acting alone. Dreamer Tatum Nov 2013 #10

That was simple and I am guessing you prefer simple. rhett o rick Nov 2013 #15

Wait - asking someone to state a belief is shutting down conversation? Dreamer Tatum Nov 2013 #16

I wasnt referring to you. I clearly said that I was not accusing you. I dont even know rhett o rick Nov 2013 #18

+100 (nt) reACTIONary Nov 2013 #93

Oh no! Things to read! JackRiddler Aug 2015 #178

I don't know. That's why I want to see ALL the government's JFK records opened. Octafish Nov 2013 #17

Oswald was impersonated? Really? hack89 Nov 2013 #42

No one at Duquesne expressed condescension and bullying to those with opposing views. Octafish Nov 2013 #50

If that is what passes as "proof" in the JFK CT industry hack89 Nov 2013 #51

The problem isn't what I know or can can prove. The problem is CIA and secret government. Octafish Nov 2013 #61

Thanks for the links to those journals. So helpful. n/t Judi Lynn Nov 2013 #72

You have created the perfect self licking ice cream cone hack89 Nov 2013 #78

10 Points of Agreement on Political Assassinations Octafish Nov 2013 #89

That is some concentrated industrial strength woo there. hack89 Nov 2013 #91

After a quick scan... reACTIONary Nov 2013 #94

It's easy to label, hack89. Nothing there is woo. It's fact. Octafish Nov 2013 #97

Provably false assertions. Spider Jerusalem Nov 2013 #125

Time waster. Octafish Nov 2013 #126

It's all false. Spider Jerusalem Nov 2013 #127

The case against Oswald... Octafish Nov 2013 #128

Nope. Spider Jerusalem Nov 2013 #130

Like I wrote: Time Waster Octafish Nov 2013 #133

You're making assertions. Back them up. Spider Jerusalem Nov 2013 #135

You brought up Dr. Petty. I showed where Dr. Petty is coming from. Octafish Nov 2013 #136

Not really, you haven't. Spider Jerusalem Nov 2013 #139

"10 Points" updated url johnnyreb Nov 2013 #142

"This takes me back to the good old days in the old 911 forum. Truthers had reams of "evidence" too. dotymed Nov 2013 #80

The similarities are striking, aren't they?... SidDithers Nov 2013 #99

That term makes a handy label with which to smear good people. Octafish Nov 2013 #100

Sid dithers, I just read you've never voted for a Democrat.. 2banon Nov 2013 #117

... SidDithers Nov 2013 #121

He's a Canadian. grasswire Nov 2013 #153

You are right in a way. Who it would not draw are authoritarian personalities who are GoneFishin Nov 2013 #101

No, he wasn't being impersonated. Spider Jerusalem Nov 2013 #47

J. Edgar Hoover told LBJ that the Oswald in Mexico City wasn't the same guy in Dallas jail. Zen Democrat Nov 2013 #52

That was based on a misidentified photo. Spider Jerusalem Nov 2013 #55

No No No. The FBI Director told POTUS that they had video and voice recordings of the man Zen Democrat Nov 2013 #131

Nope: Spider Jerusalem Nov 2013 #132

Because he was impersonated in Mexico City. Octafish Nov 2013 #58

No, he wasn't. Spider Jerusalem Nov 2013 #60

Time waster. Octafish Nov 2013 #63

This has nothing to do with that interrogation. Spider Jerusalem Nov 2013 #68

Worst-planned conspiracy ever... YoungDemCA Nov 2013 #149

How do you explain CIA monitoring real and fake Oswalds? Octafish Nov 2013 #151

Oswald was either in Mexico City or meeting with Silvia Odio but NOT BOTH KurtNYC Nov 2013 #95

You "think". Spider Jerusalem Nov 2013 #115

R#6 & K saluting the inimitable, indefatigable Octafish, gratitude for what he brings here UTUSN Nov 2013 #8

Bartcop has an excellent Reading Room... Octafish Nov 2013 #34

But Bobby named Dulles to the Warren Commission hootinholler Nov 2013 #9

Rumor going back to Gus Russo... Octafish Nov 2013 #38

Actually it's reality going back to Walter Jenkin's 29 November 1963 memo to LBJ Bolo Boffin Nov 2013 #49

No where does that say RFK asked Dulles be named to Warren Commission. Octafish Nov 2013 #65

You should read it again. Bolo Boffin Nov 2013 #67

So, it doesn't say what RFK said. It says what someone else said he said. Octafish Nov 2013 #69

Why would Katzenbach lie? n/t Bolo Boffin Nov 2013 #70

To go along with the LBJ plan, which was to keep the USA from going to war with the USSR. Octafish Nov 2013 #81

Why would Katzenbach send this memo to Bill Moyers, before any of the facts were in? Mc Mike Nov 2013 #83

Thanks McMike. That memo is testament that the government was interested in Oswald being framed avaistheone1 Nov 2013 #116

Thanks for the link to the hard copy of the memo, Ava is. Mc Mike Nov 2013 #122

Oh here we go again. JackRiddler Nov 2013 #134

One might think if it were true hootinholler Nov 2013 #88

BFEE Motto: Take the cash and avoid the blame. Octafish Dec 2013 #164

Eisenhower and Smedley Butler Warned us about the MIC and Intelligence agencies. dballance Nov 2013 #12

I've seen it suggested that Eisenhower's policies were being sabotaged starroute Nov 2013 #26

Did Francis Gary Powers ever go on record about that possibility? Octafish Nov 2013 #106

Thanks for that link -- it's good to know where the speculation comes from starroute Nov 2013 #109

That's my summation, for what it's worth.. n/t 2banon Nov 2013 #120

That started in April 1961... Octafish Dec 2013 #163

David Slawson, Warren Commission investigator, tried to warn us and was told to zip it... Octafish Nov 2013 #104

HUGE K & R !!! - Thank You !!! WillyT Nov 2013 #13

''The younger Dulles saw no separation between his business and the country's business.'' Octafish Nov 2013 #107

Excellent Stuff... Much Of Which We Suspected... Can't Wait For The Book... WillyT Nov 2013 #114

The JFK assassination was a very important event in all our lives. Thank you for your reports. rhett o rick Nov 2013 #14

I want to second that thanks to the admins BelgianMadCow Nov 2013 #37

Dulles assassinated a political ally of President Kennedy three days before JFK's inaugural. Octafish Nov 2013 #113

And thank you for keeping us up to date. Have a great holiday season. nm rhett o rick Nov 2013 #119

One of the things I am thankful for ... robertpaulsen Nov 2013 #19

I second robertpaulsen's remarks of praise to you Octofish and extend to rhettorick 2banon Nov 2013 #118

after the big 'stinks' caused by assassinations with guns, they discovered small plane crashes certainot Nov 2013 #21

And after that... CanSocDem Nov 2013 #35

Plus Sen. Hale Boggs mc51tc Nov 2013 #45

Also, JFK, Jr., BlueMTexpat Nov 2013 #84

to many preventive 'accidents', and until people quit calling 'tinfoil' every time, it will continue certainot Nov 2013 #145

Mike Connell Octafish Nov 2013 #144

i remember that. there used to be a list of these 'airplane accidents' at unknownnews.net by cheryl certainot Nov 2013 #146

here's something else by her- certainot Nov 2013 #147

As an aside...I hope when he writes the book, he has good proof readers. dixiegrrrrl Nov 2013 #22

Good catch! My bad... Octafish Nov 2013 #24

Ooooops...did not mean to poke at you dixiegrrrrl Nov 2013 #27

Octafish, have you seen this....? LongTomH Nov 2013 #25

Thank you, LongTomH! Octafish Nov 2013 #110

There is so much essential history to be learned by inquiry into this event. johnnyreb Nov 2013 #29

W. David Slawson is a name few know... Octafish Nov 2013 #112

Thank you Octafish. johnnyreb Nov 2013 #137

There Is Just Too Much Out There Now colsohlibgal Nov 2013 #30

A few points: Spider Jerusalem Nov 2013 #36

Exactly! micraphone Nov 2013 #40

It couldn't be more obvious BlueStreak Nov 2013 #103

And if you've ever fired a gun, you know ... lake loon Nov 2013 #124

A key procedural thing is that there was no advocate for the truth in these proceedings BlueStreak Nov 2013 #141

Re Jackie's marriage to Aristotle, Mc Mike Nov 2013 #86

There is way too much. OSWALD : No barium or antimony on cheek. GoneFishin Nov 2013 #102

More untruths. Spider Jerusalem Nov 2013 #154

Yes. The Warren Report does support the findings of the Warren Report. GoneFishin Nov 2013 #155

And contradicts your assertions. Spider Jerusalem Nov 2013 #156

You forgot your links to the Warren Report, you know, the source in question. GoneFishin Dec 2013 #157

Okay then, let's presume for just a moment that the conspiracy version is correct. Spider Jerusalem Dec 2013 #158

There was a hole in the windshield, and we don't know about his left brain because it disappeared nt GoneFishin Dec 2013 #168

Crack not a hole. The Midway Rebel Dec 2013 #169

Not a crack. A bullet hole. GoneFishin Dec 2013 #172

There was no hole in the windshield. Spider Jerusalem Dec 2013 #170

For some reason I was thinking about Bobby Baker & LBJ today. dmr Nov 2013 #31

The investigation of Bobby Baker would have involved not only LBJ, but RFK, Hoover and JFK mc51tc Nov 2013 #48

Bobby Kennedy put Dulles on the Warren Commission. Bolo Boffin Nov 2013 #33

No. RFK did not 'put Allen Dulles' on the Warren Commission. Octafish Nov 2013 #41

Yes, he did. Bolo Boffin Nov 2013 #43

You make no sense at all. JFK FIRED Dulles. BlueStreak Nov 2013 #54

And then Bobby asked LBJ to put him on the Warren Commission. Bolo Boffin Nov 2013 #56

Do you understand that sometimes people are forced into positions? BlueStreak Nov 2013 #64

I think you're exaggerating the antipathy between the Kennedys and Dulles. Bolo Boffin Nov 2013 #66

I don't know why you bother... YoungDemCA Nov 2013 #150

Wait a minute. So, according to you, this "Bobby picked Dulles" crap is based on ... Zen Democrat Nov 2013 #53

They weren't communicating by ouija board, Zen Democrat. n/t Bolo Boffin Nov 2013 #57

LBJ himself said it. HooptieWagon Nov 2013 #59

You believe him? BootinUp Nov 2013 #62

He also said he didn't believe the Warren Commission report, Mc Mike Nov 2013 #87

LBJ said in 1969, after leaving office, that he always suspected a conspiracy. Zen Democrat Nov 2013 #129

I agree with your post #53, and this one, Z.D. Mc Mike Nov 2013 #138

May light be shone in every crook and cranny until the truth, the whole truth triumphs indepat Nov 2013 #39

Thank you, indepat! It is ALL about Justice. Octafish Dec 2013 #159

Confirming imo 'pukes will do whatever is necessary to gain and retain control, a clear and indepat Dec 2013 #160

Thanks so much for the news David Talbot will be publishing Judi Lynn Nov 2013 #44

''Dulles had even less respect for Jack Kennedy's authority than he did for FDR's.'' Octafish Dec 2013 #165

Welcome to the party David … not like this is big news ... rtassi Nov 2013 #75

True. We've talked about it on DU... Octafish Dec 2013 #173

The recent Rolling Stone article by RFK JR., is very enlightening as to his brother's maddiemom Nov 2013 #76

Correction: his uncle's assassination... maddiemom Nov 2013 #77

Robert F. Kennedy saw conspiracy in JFK’s assassination Octafish Dec 2013 #162

TY, Octafish, for your tireless contributions here at DU, and to truth... mother earth Nov 2013 #79

Well said. I agree completely. nm rhett o rick Nov 2013 #85

Kicked and recommended a shit load. Enthusiast Nov 2013 #82

Thanks, Enthusiast! His book is due in 2015... Octafish Dec 2013 #171

The Oligarchs And Corporations Own And Control The Politicians That Own And Control Us cantbeserious Nov 2013 #90

50 years of 'Money trumps peace.' Octafish Dec 2013 #175

Rec. Thanks, Octa. Mc Mike Nov 2013 #92

I completely agree with him. Waiting For Everyman Nov 2013 #96

K&R + some more informative links (Thank you-your DU journal and BFEE series is among the best when bobthedrummer Nov 2013 #108

Thank you, bobthedrummer! Here are the posts on the sad anniversary and the Duquesne Conference... Octafish Nov 2013 #140

The perfect criminal. . . ucrdem Nov 2013 #111

Thanks, ucrdem! Please see Replies # 107 and 165. Octafish Dec 2013 #166

Kicked and recommended. Uncle Joe Nov 2013 #143

US News & World Report asked Sabato and 5 other academics: 'Was it a conspiracy?' Octafish Dec 2013 #174

Oh look, let's engage in endless fantastical speculation and fantasy! YoungDemCA Nov 2013 #148

So, apart from insults for his critics, you've nothing to say about Allen Dulles? Octafish Nov 2013 #152

I've heard that before. ananda Dec 2013 #167

His new book on Allen Dulles talks about this Fast Walker 52 Oct 2015 #179