General Discussion

DeSwiss

(27,137 posts)

43. Muddled?

Wed Dec 4, 2013, 08:37 AM

Dec 2013

I'm not sure what you expected. The title of the article is: ''How Pharmaceuticals Came To Be The 4th Leading Cause Of Death In America.''

The author then uses a singular but horrendous example of a woman who was initially diagnosed with a Urinary Tract Infection (curable with cranberry juice) and who ended up dead. The chain of events from one deathly drug to the next -- showing how that happen was clearly laid out. How her health suffered in each step. And how instead of finding out what her health problems were and curing them, they killed her instead. I don't know why it's ''muddled'' for you. The article's author also cited several references and those authors did as well.

So I'm assuming you've exhausted a review of all of those resources provided and you still came up wanting. This wasn't a story about what killed her as much as it is a story about how she managed to survived these grim reapers for so long. Maybe the hope of the author in writing this article is that people will read it and not suffer the same fate. Won't stay ''with it'' long enough for them to kill them.

It's fairly clear to me her death resulted from side effects and possibly the drugs themselves. And having once been in her shoes, I have no doubts whatsoever on how this happens. Also bearing in mind that our corrupt system doesn't allow for the vampires of the medical system and who suck our blood daily, to be exposed except for the most egregious of their crimes.

- There's just too much money on the table.....

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How Pharmaceuticals Came To Be The 4th Leading Cause Of Death In America [View all] DeSwiss Dec 2013 OP

Cipro/Levaquin FQs it's victims are legion lunasun Dec 2013 #1

I am among them. :-/ n/t DeSwiss Dec 2013 #2

I was hit in 2007 took over 3 yrs to get back to normal If I eat soy a lot of crap still starts up lunasun Dec 2013 #7

I take NO prescription medications now. And I don't plan to in the future either. DeSwiss Dec 2013 #12

Good luck in not dying from that infection that only an antibiotix will cure. HERVEPA Dec 2013 #78

More like good luck from not dying from that infection that antibiotics cannot touch because djean111 Dec 2013 #107

For the last 40 years of my life, I have seen this scenario louis-t Dec 2013 #209

A med originally classified as a second choice(only after something else fails) now marketed for $ lunasun Dec 2013 #113

De nada. DeSwiss Dec 2013 #135

There are antimicrobials and antifungals BlueToTheBone Dec 2013 #165

Wow! I wonder what the names of these UTI drugs were... CoffeeCat Dec 2013 #129

5 Levaquin pills... Ino Dec 2013 #13

I almost went blind from Cipro HockeyMom Dec 2013 #30

Absolutely terrifying. Big Blue Marble Dec 2013 #3

THE major crisis of healthcare that we're experiencing..... DeSwiss Dec 2013 #14

I did an interview on Fox News yesterday greymattermom Dec 2013 #17

Here's more on the subject: DeSwiss Dec 2013 #21

K&R...many of the newer Pharmaceuticals have more side effects than KoKo Dec 2013 #153

Not content with infecting just the US solarhydrocan Dec 2013 #4

they make so much money the fines are just a hit they can recover from lunasun Dec 2013 #11

''The fish stinks from the head.'' DeSwiss Dec 2013 #15

Speaking to your point on corruption, ronnie624 Dec 2013 #83

Way, way too much truth for much of DU. DeSwiss Dec 2013 #117

This message was self-deleted by its author MattBaggins Dec 2013 #151

* ronnie624 Dec 2013 #77

This is why I try to avoid medications... CoffeeCat Dec 2013 #130

I'm not surprised in the least Art_from_Ark Dec 2013 #5

Rule of thumb: LadyHawkAZ Dec 2013 #10

example solarhydrocan Dec 2013 #18

A perfect example of what I and LadyHawk were referring to Art_from_Ark Dec 2013 #22

Doc, is the potential for sudden death right for me?" elehhhhna Dec 2013 #152

LOL! LadyHawkAZ Dec 2013 #174

Being of a socialist inclination..... DeSwiss Dec 2013 #16

You might find this book interesting solarhydrocan Dec 2013 #19

So how do you remove "pain and misery"? CanSocDem Dec 2013 #54

An evolutionary changed will be required first. DeSwiss Dec 2013 #58

thanks for the post Locrian Dec 2013 #87

Yep. DeSwiss Dec 2013 #118

you got it - now we need to get back to the garden - n/t Locrian Dec 2013 #170

Absolutely! ronnie624 Dec 2013 #79

The CDC seems to have different statistics on prescription drug deaths Nevernose Dec 2013 #6

I know at one point they "lost' years of Dr/PT reporting on Levaquin via FDA medwatch lunasun Dec 2013 #8

As Disraeli said: ''Lies, damned lies and statistics.'' DeSwiss Dec 2013 #9

not only the CDC, any other source you find will not list it either because it isn't. The article lostincalifornia Dec 2013 #40

So it wasn't the drug it was irresponsible doctors and a profit lead healthcare system intaglio Dec 2013 #20

Lasix killed my mother newfie11 Dec 2013 #23

We are poisoning ourselves...... DeSwiss Dec 2013 #24

LASIK is an extremely powerful diuretic, and needs to be monitored constantly.for electrolyte lostincalifornia Dec 2013 #41

My wife got sick. sendero Dec 2013 #25

If we stand back from the individual problems and issues..... DeSwiss Dec 2013 #29

Where in the PDA under Levaquin? TorchTheWitch Dec 2013 #180

I meant PDR.. sendero Dec 2013 #182

there's always people that can't take a certain medication TorchTheWitch Dec 2013 #183

Yeah.. sendero Dec 2013 #185

Thanks! I'm surprised the Big Pharma people haven't pnwmom Dec 2013 #26

Wouldn't notice. I have them on IGNORE.... DeSwiss Dec 2013 #27

Awww. You think pro-science people are "Big Pharma." And yet you tried to pretend... HuckleB Dec 2013 #192

No. You are the one connecting pro-science people to Big pharma. pnwmom Dec 2013 #217

Hogwash. HuckleB Dec 2013 #223

"End of discussion." Aren't you self-important! pnwmom Dec 2013 #225

This message was self-deleted by its author Grateful for Hope Dec 2013 #229

Meanwhile, all-time deaths from overdose of marijuana remain at zero. Scuba Dec 2013 #28

In 10,000 years of record use! DeSwiss Dec 2013 #31

Tetrahydrocannabinol is a pharmaceutical product lostincalifornia Dec 2013 #33

Bullshit. Heart disease, cancer, stroke, chronic lung disease, accidents, alzheimers, diabetes, lostincalifornia Dec 2013 #32

Before I put your a@!$ on Ignore..... DeSwiss Dec 2013 #34

please put me on ignore. I listed the top 15 causes of death in the U.S. and you didn't answer lostincalifornia Dec 2013 #39

For many, many people both hypertension and diabetes can be controlled with diet. KittyWampus Dec 2013 #84

True, but for many that is not enough. Type II diabetes can literally be reversed with diet, but lostincalifornia Dec 2013 #100

Tim Minchin - Storm CorrectOfCenter Dec 2013 #35

I hear ya. DeSwiss Dec 2013 #37

from the Harvard link, G_j Dec 2013 #36

The gangrene has gone too far into the body politic. DeSwiss Dec 2013 #38

Thanks for this, G_j. nt Grateful for Hope Dec 2013 #168

Is the article implying the drugs caused her cancer? marshall Dec 2013 #42

Muddled? DeSwiss Dec 2013 #43

UTIs are not curable by cranberry juice MattBaggins Dec 2013 #150

Nailed it...nt SidDithers Dec 2013 #158

+1 D23MIURG23 Dec 2013 #161

Actually, I have used cranberry juice for such Grateful for Hope Dec 2013 #171

Cranberry juice can help with urinary health trotsky Dec 2013 #220

Of course not. But it can cure some of them. pnwmom Dec 2013 #244

Sure they are. Quantess Dec 2013 #200

Oh, really? How many UTI's have you ever had? pnwmom Dec 2013 #242

I can guess at the conclusion, but basically I think the writer doesn't close the gap marshall Dec 2013 #157

this is a made up patient using the author's experience as a basis magical thyme Dec 2013 #149

Collective Evolution... SidDithers Dec 2013 #44

Sid, if that's the only one you saw..... DeSwiss Dec 2013 #46

Thanks, I saved that. bemildred Dec 2013 #65

Right.. some woo.. G_j Dec 2013 #60

Sid -I think you need to open your mind here Grateful for Hope Dec 2013 #172

Sid probably has the most open mind on this thread. HuckleB Dec 2013 #175

. solarhydrocan Dec 2013 #179

Exactly nt Grateful for Hope Dec 2013 #181

Green for victory!... SidDithers Dec 2013 #184

I see you don't know what an open mind is... HuckleB Dec 2013 #193

Doing a 'Sid' Grateful for Hope Dec 2013 #228

...and yet there are posters on DU who go into HYSTERIA about complementary medicine Berlum Dec 2013 #45

Poo they're pimping!!! DeSwiss Dec 2013 #48

They claim to be anti-corporatist also Puzzledtraveller Dec 2013 #49

If the aid isn't proven to work, then it should be questioned.. eqfan592 Dec 2013 #159

Hey, you'll love these quality articles posted at Collective Evolution... SidDithers Dec 2013 #50

years ago on DU I posted this same info from JAMA which is as mainstream as is possible. KittyWampus Dec 2013 #85

JAMA had articles about chemtrails?... SidDithers Dec 2013 #94

No- it stated the FACT that drugs as prescribed are a leading cause of death. KittyWampus Dec 2013 #98

No. What's pathetic is the use of a source like Collective Evolution in ANY thread at DU...nt SidDithers Dec 2013 #101

What's pathetic is attempting to distract from such a serious issue, that Americans ARE dying sabrina 1 Dec 2013 #154

... SidDithers Dec 2013 #156

Thanks for kicking the thread, again. sabrina 1 Dec 2013 #173

You still have a link to that article, because I don't believe you. D23MIURG23 Dec 2013 #162

But, but... it agrees with my preconceived notions! HuckleB Dec 2013 #176

People who attack "complementary" medicine do so because much of it is outright bullshit Orrex Dec 2013 #53

My main problem with that position is..... DeSwiss Dec 2013 #63

There's an easy answer to that, in fact. Orrex Dec 2013 #76

No, allopath is a correct term BuddhaGirl Dec 2013 #124

That's really not up to you. Orrex Dec 2013 #134

Apparently it's not up to wikipedia either BuddhaGirl Dec 2013 #142

Cling to your petty propaganda labels however it suits you to do so Orrex Dec 2013 #155

As I said YMMV BuddhaGirl Dec 2013 #166

Homeopathy isn't recognized by the evidence based medical establishment, so no distinction is needed D23MIURG23 Dec 2013 #163

When there is zero scientific evidence to support it as actual medicine, then it's Woo. cleanhippie Dec 2013 #64

I will continue solarhydrocan Dec 2013 #68

Gee, that's nice. No sure what that has to do with what I said. cleanhippie Dec 2013 #71

We are questioning... CanSocDem Dec 2013 #186

Sorry, no. Things that are scientifically proven to treat illness and disease are "medicine." cleanhippie Dec 2013 #188

If it works....??? CanSocDem Dec 2013 #219

If it "works" then it will be testable, repeatable, and falsifiable cleanhippie Dec 2013 #221

Your sig'line contradicts your post. CanSocDem Dec 2013 #226

Uhm yeah, the Scientific Method is just another belief system. cleanhippie Dec 2013 #227

It actually is Grateful for Hope Dec 2013 #231

Exactly Grateful for Hope Dec 2013 #230

''When there is zero scientific evidence to support it as actual medicine, then it's Woo.'' DeSwiss Dec 2013 #69

Glad we agree that unsupported-by-scientific-fact "medicine" is Woo. cleanhippie Dec 2013 #73

Oh my Berlum Dec 2013 #82

Lions and tigers and bears! cleanhippie Dec 2013 #189

Whenever I see a word used repeatedly, or a phrase, to support Big Corps and denigrate those sabrina 1 Dec 2013 #81

Occam's Razor- it's way more logical to see that many are threatened by anything outside their KittyWampus Dec 2013 #88

Well, of course I didn't say any DUer was a 'paid shill'. It isn't necessary as we discovered sabrina 1 Dec 2013 #99

Like I replied above Puzzledtraveller Dec 2013 #93

Actually, the anti science, anti reality position of the peddlers of "woo"... eqfan592 Dec 2013 #164

Because it's a scam, and we should be fighting scams! HuckleB Dec 2013 #246

More aweseomeness from Collective Evolution... SidDithers Dec 2013 #47

You forgot these Sid: DeSwiss Dec 2013 #51

More batshit from Collective Evolution... SidDithers Dec 2013 #52

No, that one's from Harvard. DeSwiss Dec 2013 #55

That would be the article citing 10 references, none of which were used to support the assertion winter is coming Dec 2013 #72

You must have missed the post..... DeSwiss Dec 2013 #121

Clearly, I've already read the author's essay, as I was commenting on the lack of a citation winter is coming Dec 2013 #136

Lol! Harvard = Woo now! sabrina 1 Dec 2013 #104

in Sid's defense (bleah), "Harvard" isn't making this claim foo_bar Dec 2013 #120

slow down, take a deep breath G_j Dec 2013 #61

Wait. The OP didn't link to Collective Evolution?... SidDithers Dec 2013 #62

well possessing a minimal modicum G_j Dec 2013 #66

Then why the link to CE at all?... SidDithers Dec 2013 #67

I don't know G_j Dec 2013 #70

As I posted up thread > JAMA reported this same FACT years ago. I posted it multiple times KittyWampus Dec 2013 #89

I'm not trying to discredit a fact... SidDithers Dec 2013 #91

And the mother of all batshit insane woo from Collective Evolution... SidDithers Dec 2013 #56

Holy crap! HappyMe Dec 2013 #57

And now you are spamming this thread. Edit- I just alerted. Your 2 previous posts were KittyWampus Dec 2013 #90

Spamming?... SidDithers Dec 2013 #92

And the alert failed, 5-1. I'm sure that you'll now alert on other posts, until you get a 6-0.. X_Digger Dec 2013 #102

Yeah, I know you alerted... SidDithers Dec 2013 #105

That's a lousy source to use. Why not use MineralMan Dec 2013 #59

DUers aren't stupid, they can check the source and make their own decision. NYC_SKP Dec 2013 #74

DU used to have standards... SidDithers Dec 2013 #97

Ding! Ding! Ding! Right answer! HuckleB Dec 2013 #177

And I can point out the nature of the source. MineralMan Dec 2013 #110

Oh, I think that's fine. nt NYC_SKP Dec 2013 #112

Calling DUers who don't know this OP source is bad "stupid"... gulliver Dec 2013 #234

The source article doesn't explain where the "4th leading cause of death" stuff comes from, either. winter is coming Dec 2013 #75

AND you admit there's a link to Harvard. And I can link to JAMA saying the exact same thing. KittyWampus Dec 2013 #95

I'm not sure what it is you're trying to say, actually. MineralMan Dec 2013 #111

If you "can link to JAMA saying the exact same thing", please do so. winter is coming Dec 2013 #143

Here's an interesting JAMA article... winter is coming Dec 2013 #146

And here's an old one about drug-related deaths among inpatients. winter is coming Dec 2013 #147

And one about adverse drug reactions... winter is coming Dec 2013 #148

The link to the Harvard organization posts the same paper. pnwmom Dec 2013 #249

The lack of ability of critical thinking HERVEPA Dec 2013 #80

It's actually only marginally better than placebo. Then you factor in the side effects... KittyWampus Dec 2013 #96

Can you provide support for that dangerous assertion? Orrex Dec 2013 #109

Your premise is totally ludicrous. HERVEPA Dec 2013 #114

De nada. DeSwiss Dec 2013 #132

The only prescription I take is thyroid. Faux pas Dec 2013 #86

As I've mentioned up and down thread..... DeSwiss Dec 2013 #131

Food should be the main supporter of health. Faux pas Dec 2013 #190

Even IF pharmaceuticals are the 4th leading cause of death, Sgent Dec 2013 #103

In-general I'm in agreement with you..... DeSwiss Dec 2013 #127

I agree to an extent Sgent Dec 2013 #133

You don't come down with diabetes. DeSwiss Dec 2013 #138

Diet and exercise does play a role. HuckleB Dec 2013 #202

Recommend jsr Dec 2013 #106

Medical errors are the third leading cause of death: highplainsdem Dec 2013 #108

FWIW, I agree with you. DeSwiss Dec 2013 #123

Your study is about "patient harms associated with hospital care" - broadly defined. D23MIURG23 Dec 2013 #167

There's no such thing as side effects felix_numinous Dec 2013 #115

Amen. n/t DeSwiss Dec 2013 #122

I suggest the FQ/ safe drug community out there 4U re: serious discussion lunasun Dec 2013 #116

Oh, no. DeSwiss Dec 2013 #126

Kick and Recommended. Despite the apologists for big Pharma, the link between some drugs and deaths quinnox Dec 2013 #119

De nada. DeSwiss Dec 2013 #125

lol, nice pic quinnox Dec 2013 #128

... SidDithers Dec 2013 #144

If you were writing a college paper, and you cited Collective Evolution... Vashta Nerada Dec 2013 #137

Well I'm not. DeSwiss Dec 2013 #139

You're posting from this website as if it's truth. Vashta Nerada Dec 2013 #140

How do I accomplish this? DeSwiss Dec 2013 #141

Bottom line: Why would you post a link to such a site? HuckleB Dec 2013 #195

No, I don't see it. DeSwiss Dec 2013 #222

You're the one who is closed minded. HuckleB Dec 2013 #224

HuckleB Grateful for Hope Dec 2013 #232

What about your posts from above? HuckleB Dec 2013 #235

read them. Duh! Grateful for Hope Dec 2013 #236

Do you want to discuss something, or do you just enjoy getting people to go on wild goose chases? HuckleB Dec 2013 #237

You cut the crap Grateful for Hope Dec 2013 #238

All I see in your posts above is the obvious. HuckleB Dec 2013 #239

Hey interesting 'good bye' Grateful for Hope Dec 2013 #240

I'm wrong? HuckleB Dec 2013 #241

What game? Grateful for Hope Dec 2013 #243

. HuckleB Dec 2013 #245

So you can't spell it out. Grateful for Hope Dec 2013 #247

And the classic Internet BS continues. HuckleB Dec 2013 #248

Anyone reading this exchange will see that you have nothing to say here. :) Grateful for Hope Dec 2013 #250

And you've said what exactly? HuckleB Dec 2013 #251

Not sure what you mean about 'ethical' Grateful for Hope Dec 2013 #252

You have done nothing but play games. HuckleB Dec 2013 #253

Ok, HuckleB - I now understand that you don't want to discuss Grateful for Hope Dec 2013 #254

And the games continue. HuckleB Dec 2013 #255

... Grateful for Hope Dec 2013 #256

And, finally, we get a full confession. HuckleB Dec 2013 #257

This message was self-deleted by its author Grateful for Hope Dec 2013 #259

This message was self-deleted by its author Grateful for Hope Dec 2013 #258

Big brother (the FDA) won't let the 4th leading cause of death in indepat Dec 2013 #145

Yep - another arena where the partnership between corps and gov't... polichick Dec 2013 #216

We're just players on the big stage prepped for us indepat Dec 2013 #218

As far as I can tell, they aren't. D23MIURG23 Dec 2013 #160

When you can not handle the message, attack the messenger. Big Blue Marble Dec 2013 #169

What's easy is bashing something out of context. HuckleB Dec 2013 #178

It has generated important discussion.n/t CanSocDem Dec 2013 #187

Yeah, what you consider "important" tends to be not so important. HuckleB Dec 2013 #191

And yet there are plenty of people who attack alternatives as "woo." polichick Dec 2013 #194

No, people attack scams as woo! HuckleB Dec 2013 #196

Bullshit - they also call herbal remedies "woo" even when those remedies... polichick Dec 2013 #197

Now you're offering two fallacies in one post to support whatever it is you're trying to support? HuckleB Dec 2013 #198

Thanks for the laugh! :) polichick Dec 2013 #199

Awwwwww. So you really do like promoting woo! HuckleB Dec 2013 #201

imo brainwashed fools like you are a hoot! polichick Dec 2013 #203

Uh, duh. HuckleB Dec 2013 #204

You're brainwashed. Try the natural substance the way it's been used... polichick Dec 2013 #206

I'm not the one who is brainwashed. HuckleB Dec 2013 #207

Yeah, because Mother Nature knows nothing about science. LOL polichick Dec 2013 #210

So you offer up another useless cliche and logical fallacy. HuckleB Dec 2013 #213

Anyone ever taken Lunesta? DirkGently Dec 2013 #205

This exposes the problems of allowing the "free market" into health care, more than anything. HuckleB Dec 2013 #208

I don't doubt "side effects are rare," but even a low incidence of DirkGently Dec 2013 #211

Well... HuckleB Dec 2013 #212

I agree it's a balance. Need to sleep vs. risk of suicide / homicide / DirkGently Dec 2013 #214

Most of the research does address such issues. HuckleB Dec 2013 #215

Gave me nightmares and hallucinations. DeSwiss Dec 2013 #261

"Baking Soda is Proving to be an Effective Treatment For Cancer"... SidDithers Dec 2013 #233

The Polio Vaccine Myth: “The Vaccine Stopped Polio” SidDithers Dec 2013 #260