General Discussion

RainDog

(28,784 posts)

82. this study was done to test another, earlier study

Wed Dec 4, 2013, 07:59 PM

Dec 2013

yes, humans and rats are different, but the original rat studies that showed rats would self-administer morphine until they died, and this was taken to mean ALL rats would do so. So this person changed the conditions of the experiment and the same actions for the rats didn't hold true.

...but that earlier study became the basis for a lot of assumptions about drugs and addiction, even tho, as you note, humans and rats are different.

what they study really contests is whether the first study had the last word to say about the issue in terms of how we frame the debate about drugs and addiction.

and, not only are humans and rats different, individual humans are different.

Addiction exists in some humans but not in others, and some things that are called addictions would be better labeled as habit - habits within particular environments also have different outcomes for different people.

Ranking the addictiveness of various things generally comes from animal studies.

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It's not the morphine, it's the size of the cage: Rat Park experiment upturns conventional wisdom [View all] Jesus Malverde Dec 2013 OP

Hope this gets some attention FiveGoodMen Dec 2013 #1

Surely it will from those who need to bury it rurallib Dec 2013 #8

Interesting point. calimary Dec 2013 #50

And yet, those that have it all can be addicted erronis Dec 2013 #77

I wonder what you'd have to do to rats to make them live like fat-cats FiveGoodMen Dec 2013 #78

note that these rats "have it all" in the form of healthy relationships magical thyme Dec 2013 #80

Amazing. Big K n R n/t n2doc Dec 2013 #2

Forced isolation isn't the same as self-inflicted isolation. tridim Dec 2013 #3

Yes, maybe addiction treatment should focus more on community integration than Jesus Malverde Dec 2013 #7

the science says that 5-10% of us are addicts and don't can't use iona funcitonal manner elehhhhna Dec 2013 #18

would you agree that NJCher Dec 2013 #44

too much money and too little imagination is a BIG PROBLEM, also, elehhhhna Dec 2013 #79

The fact that it's illegal... freebrew Dec 2013 #61

K&R (I recommend looking at the comic link... very cool) nt SalviaBlue Dec 2013 #4

Fascinating malaise Dec 2013 #5

Fascinating. nt stevenleser Dec 2013 #6

This is intriguing. Chemisse Dec 2013 #9

Sad to say the paradise that is northern California is full of heroin and meth addicts. Jesus Malverde Dec 2013 #10

Doesn't that match the results of the study? Maedhros Dec 2013 #29

"economic isolation/desperation" bvar22 Dec 2013 #31

Not really. Rats are, for the most part, far more trustworthy & greatful than people. Egalitarian Thug Dec 2013 #33

I'm talking about the northern counties, humboldt, del norte, shasta, trinity. Jesus Malverde Dec 2013 #34

Humboldt - Marijuana growing capital of the west coast. SharonAnn Dec 2013 #37

It's more about coastal vs. inland dreamnightwind Dec 2013 #54

Thinking about it, it makes sense Revanchist Dec 2013 #11

This is fascinating. Chellee Dec 2013 #12

It certainly calls into question the methodology of using social animals in isolation in studies..nt Jesus Malverde Dec 2013 #14

I think if you take any animal... Chellee Dec 2013 #19

Nice points.....nt Enthusiast Dec 2013 #58

Very interesting k/r fishwax Dec 2013 #13

Great find. K&R LadyHawkAZ Dec 2013 #15

I challenged a "counselor" that my former employer made us listen to on this eridani Dec 2013 #16

This info's been around since the late 70's/ Jesus Malverde Dec 2013 #21

FYI, Nixon started the official War on Drugs... truebluegreen Dec 2013 #40

Excellent reminder.............nt Enthusiast Dec 2013 #59

of course the humans never took into consideration the suffering G_j Dec 2013 #17

More like the WOO of science...nt Jesus Malverde Dec 2013 #22

"the woo of science"??? Duppers Dec 2013 #51

gives new meaning to...... Pretzel_Warrior Dec 2013 #20

Hard to believe it's almost been 20 years since that song came out. Jesus Malverde Dec 2013 #24

They look so young! been awhile...... lunasun Dec 2013 #27

I heard about this study robbob Dec 2013 #23

Seemingly no different than alcohol dbackjon Dec 2013 #25

On a somewhat related note ... 1StrongBlackMan Dec 2013 #26

so little insight NJCher Dec 2013 #45

There is a reason why ... 1StrongBlackMan Dec 2013 #47

Dr. Gabor Mat� concurs RufusTFirefly Dec 2013 #28

I like that attunement concept. Good Reads. Jesus Malverde Dec 2013 #32

You're welcome! Thanks for starting the ball rolling! n/t RufusTFirefly Dec 2013 #41

I'm glad you brought this out, I had no idea. Egalitarian Thug Dec 2013 #30

Most interesting. Thanks for sharing. Auggie Dec 2013 #35

Brilliant and quite convincing. NYC_SKP Dec 2013 #36

It's conceivable behavior has multiple causes? DirkGently Dec 2013 #38

I read this a couple of months ago RainDog Dec 2013 #39

Excellent post. Enthusiast Dec 2013 #60

thanks RainDog Dec 2013 #64

Also from 30 years ago, alcohol for pigs. Festivito Dec 2013 #42

poor socio-economic conditions BlancheSplanchnik Dec 2013 #43

Decades later there are still replicability problems Recursion Dec 2013 #46

That really makes you go "hmm". loudsue Dec 2013 #48

Well, now we know how to treat addicted rats. Coyotl Dec 2013 #49

... but of course Congress will refuse to pay for it. nt eppur_se_muova Dec 2013 #71

Are rats smart enough to know the difference between tap water and water laced with morphine? wickerwoman Dec 2013 #52

If they didn't, you'd expect them to choose which to drink randomly. jeff47 Dec 2013 #62

You'd have to control for the flavor as well. wickerwoman Dec 2013 #66

Confirms anecdotal evidence from homeless people. Laelth Dec 2013 #53

Treat their lives, not their addictions dreamnightwind Dec 2013 #55

It's also how MLK's thinking evolved regarding social justice RainDog Dec 2013 #70

A real ''Quantum'' leap in thinking. DeSwiss Dec 2013 #56

Just incredible! nt Enthusiast Dec 2013 #57

Apparently the rodents in the natural environment were happy riversedge Dec 2013 #63

I believe it was a combination of natural environment and connectedness/role to/in community. Jesus Malverde Dec 2013 #65

This is borne out in clinical practice in hospitals, too Warpy Dec 2013 #67

Thanks for that info. My daughter is currently taking lots of morphine deurbano Dec 2013 #69

She might become dependent on it for a while Warpy Dec 2013 #73

interesting RainDog Dec 2013 #75

Who'da thunk it? QUALITY of life matters! AlbertCat Dec 2013 #68

Who could have guessed that stress and depression would cause addiction Rex Dec 2013 #72

Interesting. Bookmarking for later. geardaddy Dec 2013 #74

That's very interesting but...How do you explain Auntie Bush Dec 2013 #76

human brain chemistry is not the same as rat brain chemistry. geek tragedy Dec 2013 #81

this study was done to test another, earlier study RainDog Dec 2013 #82

Good points, all. Was not aware of the prior study, and the confined space seems geek tragedy Dec 2013 #83

this study calls the issue of physical addiction into question RainDog Dec 2013 #84

With respect, the issue of physical addiction and withdrawal symptoms is more than the addict's geek tragedy Dec 2013 #85

with respect - I wasn't making an all or nothing statement RainDog Dec 2013 #86

We are in agreement. geek tragedy Dec 2013 #87

Chemical addiction and behavioral addiction RainDog Dec 2013 #88

Obvious differences between chemical ingestion and behavioral addictions. geek tragedy Dec 2013 #89

except the one study doesn't support the assumption RainDog Dec 2013 #90

"one study" is hardly dispositive in this area nt geek tragedy Dec 2013 #91

yet it's the only one that has been done RainDog Dec 2013 #92

I did not say that there was support, only that I would not be surprised geek tragedy Dec 2013 #93

peace to you RainDog Dec 2013 #94