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MADem

(135,425 posts)
109. Nonsense. Thinking business as usual will prevail is "propaganda."
Thu Dec 5, 2013, 02:03 AM
Dec 2013

And why are you so fixated on the "lower classes?" No one is gonna send a job mopping floors overseas, and no one, particularly, wants to DO that job, either. In a vibrant economy, that kind of work is for a retiree looking to supplement a fixed income to take a nice holiday, or someone who is intellectually impaired. The future insists that people with brains start using them--and people who do not want to learn, or who are not able to afford to learn, are going to be left behind. THAT's where we as a nation need to put our focus.

The answer is education. For older workers, job retraining. We need to make it readily available -- and affordable. We also need to ensure that benefits are portable--they stick with the worker, not the job.

When cars came in, it was a bad, sad day for horse groomers, buggy whip makers, carriage manufacturers and repairmen, and saddle/bridle makers. The ones who liked the work and could adapt to a smaller market share kept doing the work--the others went into other lines of work. People started making CARS instead, and with cars came repair shops and gas stations.

A door closes, a door opens. It's called progress. If you think schlepping food at a couple of bucks an hour (and depending on the mercy of "tips" to get up to minimum wage) is a "livelihood" you have a different idea of the concept than I do. This kind of work needs to go back to what it used to be--transition work between "real" jobs, college student work, part time 'pin money' work--not the work that keeps a family in food, shelter and clothing, because it doesn't do that very well at all.

Twenty years ago, jobs constructing and repairing windmills were hen's teeth. Now they are becoming more common every day. New technologies bring new jobs. Innovation is the path to a vibrant economy.

As the Chinese standard of living rises (and it is doing that), their wage advantage shrinks. It won't happen over night, but already there are businesses in USA that are moving their operations back home, because the expense of dealing with unreliable quality control half a world away, shipping costs, and damages/loss to product enroute to market is just not worth it.

2009: http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424052970203946904574302052610981892


Some companies are driven to establish manufacturing plants in China because they want to take advantage of the country's cheap labor and duty-free zones. The minimum wage in China is less than $1 an hour, compared with $7.25 an hour in the U.S. This strategy may be of particular interest during an economic slump when businesses are being pushed to cut spending. Like the first strategy, the companies taking this approach seek only to source products from China, not to compete in the local market itself. Many U.S. and European furniture makers have pursued this strategy to keep their costs low.

There is a trade-off, however, between employee skills and lower wages. A university degree doesn't necessarily mean the same thing in China as it does in the U.S. For example, while China graduates more than 300,000 engineers a year, less than 10% are able to work at international engineering standards. Thus, while salary costs in China often are lower, the skill level and the resulting quality and productivity levels are likely to be considerably lower for many vocations as well.


2012: http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424052702304587704577333482423070376

U.S. manufacturing has become attractive for some companies as Asian wages have surged over recent years and the wage gap between the U.S. and China has narrowed. The drop in the dollar over the past decade has also made U.S.-produced goods more competitive. And higher oil prices have increased the cost of shipping goods across oceans, making domestic manufacturing more appealing.

Nevertheless, China and other Asian nations remain very competitive on many products. Once expertise and supplier networks become entrenched, as they have for such things as smartphones in China, it is very difficult to move them. The U.S. also suffers from a shortage of trained workers in some areas vital for manufacturing, such as engineering and operation of computerized machinery. U.S. corporate taxes are higher than those in most other industrial nations.....

Global companies still are expanding production capacity in Asia to serve those fast-growing markets. But more are questioning the logic of trying to meet North American demand from Asian factories, says Dr. Simchi-Levi. Companies are moving toward a regional-manufacturing model, he says, in which Asian plants serve Asian customers, North American ones serve Americans.


2013: http://www.tampabay.com/news/business/economicdevelopment/as-costs-in-china-rise-some-manufacturing-jobs-return-to-usa/2152677

I-Con Systems, a Seminole County company that makes plumbing control systems for correctional institutions, had been manufacturing its components in China for about a decade when CEO Shawn Bush began thinking about moving manufacturing operations back to Florida.

Like most other manufacturers, Bush says he was originally lured to China by lower labor costs, but had encountered a number of problems in dealing with his overseas manufacturer, including the language barrier, a lack of consistent quality and a time lag in receiving material....."We had a large shipment that was delayed by a vendor, and when it was received, it did not pass our quality control," says Bush, who was unable to communicate with the vendor to explain the issue and get it corrected in a timely fashion.

After scrambling to save the customer and the project, Bush decided that the offshore relationship was not working and began acquiring equipment, personnel and the skills to bring the key items in-house to his factory in Oviedo....


http://www.slashgear.com/foxxconn-seeks-to-move-high-end-device-production-from-china-to-us-24306670/

Foxconn — accused exploiter of student laborers, rumored catalyst for alleged PlayStation 4 sabotage, installer of suicide nets for bullied workers at its exploding plants, and outgoing manufacturer of iPhones and other electronics — wants to open a Foxconn-branded plant for high-end electronics like smartphones and tablets in Arizona, USA. Foxconn chairman and president Terry Gou recently met with Arizona governor Janice Brewer, Unwired View reports, to discuss setting up shop in her state. The news first appeared in the Chinese press. (UPDATE: The company is also investing in a Pennsylvania plant to the tune of $30 million.)



The tide goes out, the tide comes in. It's the nature of the beast. Anyone who seriously believes that rank "protectionism" is going to preserve a vibrant middle class is high. We have to suck it up and be competitive, and the way to do that is to focus on providing a good education to our children--an educated workforce is a quality workforce; and providing retraining as needed for people who are transitioning from one line of work to another. There hasn't been "company loyalty" to any one organization for many years now; not since Reagan. Younger people, especially, regard job switching as normal, whereas in my day you found your "niche" and stuck with it, pretty much, if you could.

Recommendations

0 members have recommended this reply (displayed in chronological order):

Sounds good to me... Decaffeinated Dec 2013 #1
Um... who, exactly, is going to be refilling your drink? You won't have wait staff. TalkingDog Dec 2013 #5
It will be similar to automated check out machines at grocery stores. former9thward Dec 2013 #9
Yea, but the person at the auto checkout jamzrockz Dec 2013 #49
They'll probably make drinks self-serve. and then you get a 1-800 # to complain about crappy service Erose999 Dec 2013 #12
You'll have PROOF of it, though--not "I TOLLLLLD him/her I wanted cheese on that!" MADem Dec 2013 #31
I found a print bug in Papa Gino's online order system... Larkspur Dec 2013 #63
If you order from PG's online, there is a space to write a note to the people taking the order. MADem Dec 2013 #65
Dominoes messed up my daughter's pizza order Ms. Toad Dec 2013 #99
See? You had PROOF they messed it up! MADem Dec 2013 #101
She doesn't eat pizza at all anymore. Ms. Toad Dec 2013 #104
I've done it both ways, and in my experience, I get a much more accurate order MADem Dec 2013 #110
Ive had online pizza orders bungled many times. The driver said its a common problem. Erose999 Dec 2013 #117
I don't expect the total removal of wait staff in the immediate future... Decaffeinated Dec 2013 #77
Nor do I. kentauros Dec 2013 #115
A local high-end pizzeria did this: A real-world functional-assessment of how this works. Chan790 Dec 2013 #121
That's cool that you're able to serve and cook. kentauros Dec 2013 #131
Well, that would put an end to fake-receipt attention-cravers. WinkyDink Dec 2013 #2
It's just a stopgap measure until we have Star Trek replicators. Blue_Adept Dec 2013 #3
This message was self-deleted by its author leftyohiolib Dec 2013 #4
This one Blue_Adept Dec 2013 #15
so theyre gonna pay the wait staff to do what? leftyohiolib Dec 2013 #19
They can still bring you the food Politicalboi Dec 2013 #32
I am sure their long-term plan is to eliminate wait staff altogether.... Swede Atlanta Dec 2013 #53
that's the long term plan of technology!!! LionsTigersRedWings Dec 2013 #58
"illegals"??????? Seriously? LeftyMom Dec 2013 #90
Incredible... nt MADem Dec 2013 #102
some see them as commiting breaking-and-entering on the u.s. leftyohiolib Dec 2013 #119
Who sees that? LeftyMom Dec 2013 #132
i did leftyohiolib Dec 2013 #134
sorry never answered your question the answer is i do, norman goldman does also (he's on leftyohiolib Dec 2013 #135
thanks you know i completely overlooked that part of it thanks leftyohiolib Dec 2013 #61
I take it you've never waited tables before TorchTheWitch Dec 2013 #92
I go to sit-down restaurants wickerwoman Dec 2013 #122
All fine and dandy until the power goes out in the middle of dinner service. Erose999 Dec 2013 #6
That has never happened to me. former9thward Dec 2013 #10
Last time I went to Chili's the power did go out. Thunderstorms. Climate change. Fun fact: most Erose999 Dec 2013 #18
I used to love those things, especially at the gas station in the 70's. tridim Dec 2013 #33
I think it was the hope that maybe they'd lose the slip... PoliticAverse Dec 2013 #69
Born AFTER 1980, you mean. MADem Dec 2013 #34
yeah after is what I meant. We've had one everywhere I've worked, but all those places have been Erose999 Dec 2013 #44
There's required parts that are electric. jeff47 Dec 2013 #78
They still use them in cabs philosslayer Dec 2013 #84
1985--please enlighten me Tien1985 Dec 2013 #103
Hell, I saw one of those back in February Sen. Walter Sobchak Dec 2013 #111
Trust me the more electronic your kitchen gets the bigger the pain in the ass it is. Arcanetrance Dec 2013 #60
Once a restaurant lost its power because of workers ChazII Dec 2013 #71
And that never happens when they have human wait staff Capt. Obvious Dec 2013 #20
Human wait staff can at least take orders & payment manually. When the tablets go out Crapplebee's Erose999 Dec 2013 #23
Is that before, or after they subdue the rioters? Capt. Obvious Dec 2013 #29
Remember the diners that had telephones in each booth liberal N proud Dec 2013 #7
I didn't know they had phones in restaurants to call the kitchen. LionsTigersRedWings Dec 2013 #42
yes Rosa Luxemburg Dec 2013 #106
You go to the restaurant, sit down before a tablet, and order rocktivity Dec 2013 #8
well, with applebees, it is already microwaved food, you can do that at home as well. hollysmom Dec 2013 #14
Unless things have changed, the vast majority of Applebees food is NOT microwaved. tridim Dec 2013 #35
Maybe, but it is probably pre seasoned hollysmom Dec 2013 #39
Again, it was all fresh when I worked there as a line cook. tridim Dec 2013 #51
I've never had any complaints about Applebee's food. Appetizers to Entrees were just fine. cherokeeprogressive Dec 2013 #85
not food snobbery as much as not good food hollysmom Dec 2013 #124
I do love a well-made BLT. cherokeeprogressive Dec 2013 #126
Well, I am sorry for insulting your job. It might have been just the one I was in that felt very hollysmom Dec 2013 #120
Yes, before I eat, I want to put my fingers on something everyone else has touched jberryhill Dec 2013 #11
Awesome point. dbackjon Dec 2013 #16
Well, you touch the table and the seat . . . nt geek tragedy Dec 2013 #25
Fingers on item that everyone else touched yeoman6987 Dec 2013 #40
hand sanitizer or go wash them. LionsTigersRedWings Dec 2013 #45
Like the machines we all use to swipe credit cards at grocery stores? Like door handles at applebees DeschutesRiver Dec 2013 #64
EXACTLY what I was thinking Skittles Dec 2013 #70
Call it the eColiMagicWaitron3000 Blue Owl Dec 2013 #76
Do you touch doorknobs? n/t cherokeeprogressive Dec 2013 #86
But will the food improve? hobbit709 Dec 2013 #13
This is the dark side of technology, technology destroys so many jobs AZ Progressive Dec 2013 #17
Someone has to make the tablet, program the tablet, install the tablet, perform maintenance on the MADem Dec 2013 #37
Come on, thats Propaganda AZ Progressive Dec 2013 #93
Should we halt progress to save jobs? Glassunion Dec 2013 #98
Nonsense. Thinking business as usual will prevail is "propaganda." MADem Dec 2013 #109
do you tip a tablet-so the servers will be made whole from loss of tip money-believe that when i - dembotoz Dec 2013 #21
The tablet can answer that question as easily as an Applebee's waiter jmowreader Dec 2013 #113
I thought you were going to say ... "they already replaced food with.... Schema Thing Dec 2013 #22
Paula Deen signature manufactured sustenance portions. Now with more Soylent Green. Erose999 Dec 2013 #24
Not bad if you add a stick of butter. n/t Mr.Bill Dec 2013 #28
Does this mean the end of people tweeting receipts with no tips and insults? JVS Dec 2013 #26
A drone could drop orders on tables Blue Owl Dec 2013 #27
Lol underpants Dec 2013 #56
I worked there 25 years ago, and the most fun part of the job was hanging out with the wait staff.. tridim Dec 2013 #30
At places like Golden Corral the customers get their own food already Lex Dec 2013 #36
At places like Golden Corral the customers get their own food already yeoman6987 Dec 2013 #43
Not every place will go to the tablet Lex Dec 2013 #47
True yeoman6987 Dec 2013 #50
And lot's of stores are getting rid of self-checkouts liskddksil Dec 2013 #54
just curious Skittles Dec 2013 #72
Work yeoman6987 Dec 2013 #80
I used a tablet to order food LionsTigersRedWings Dec 2013 #38
But HOW did you GET your food? rocktivity Dec 2013 #81
There was 1 waiter who served food and drinks LionsTigersRedWings Dec 2013 #82
But you can't just be destroying jobs without creating more AZ Progressive Dec 2013 #94
oh really? so what happens to someone when they destroy a job without creating one? LionsTigersRedWings Dec 2013 #118
Nice bellyaching... AZ Progressive Dec 2013 #127
You seem to put words in my mouth, which is something repukes do. LionsTigersRedWings Dec 2013 #128
Guess where I am not eating. appleannie1 Dec 2013 #41
Part of the enjoyment of eating out is being waited on for a change. And at Applebees, that is the appleannie1 Dec 2013 #46
Exactly. Lex Dec 2013 #48
Screw Applebees, they are as corporate as it gets when it comes down to sit down restaurants AZ Progressive Dec 2013 #95
The restaurants deny that the tablets represent an attempt to replace human employees with computers Lint Head Dec 2013 #52
And how would like your crap cooked? underpants Dec 2013 #55
Yet another reason to stay away from national chain restaurants. DinahMoeHum Dec 2013 #57
I think there's a word for this - cafeteria suffragette Dec 2013 #59
What happens to the tablets when some kid spills his soda on them? Larkspur Dec 2013 #62
They were designed with that in mind. Glassunion Dec 2013 #88
With all of this, they aren't thinking at all about the customers. MineralMan Dec 2013 #66
I like supermart self-checkout. This wouldn't bother me at all. MADem Dec 2013 #68
I use supermarket self-check, too. MineralMan Dec 2013 #73
Different strokes for different folks, I guess. I don't go to a restaurant to talk to the server. MADem Dec 2013 #75
WHY IS ANYONE STILL EATING AT APPLEBEES???? Dawgs Dec 2013 #67
I understand that some hipsters go there ironically. Nye Bevan Dec 2013 #91
It's gross Rosa Luxemburg Dec 2013 #107
Cutting out the waiter doesn't get the food cooked any faster rocktivity Dec 2013 #74
Jobs created for those who repair tablets Lex Dec 2013 #79
That person that's programming the tablets, you mean in the Silicon Valley or in Seoul AZ Progressive Dec 2013 #96
Of course. Lex Dec 2013 #97
Ironically, I think the biggest argument will come from RWer's who will be afraid that madinmaryland Dec 2013 #83
Yay! Now 2 posts full of good old-fashioned overreaction in GD. Glassunion Dec 2013 #87
I know! kentauros Dec 2013 #116
Um, if we're not paid Trailrider1951 Dec 2013 #89
Let me know when they replace their menu items with food. LeftyMom Dec 2013 #100
tablet ordering would be great Niceguy1 Dec 2013 #105
Somebody still has to clean up the mess. Cleita Dec 2013 #108
There is a restaurant in Utah that has been doing this for at least two-plus decades... Drunken Irishman Dec 2013 #112
HAven't been in one of those roach pits in years Uben Dec 2013 #114
Replace Applebee's with home cooking. Dawson Leery Dec 2013 #123
I'm waiting for Fabricants, myself. Tommy_Carcetti Dec 2013 #125
I'm missing how these would replace people. herding cats Dec 2013 #129
Think they'll lower prices? demosincebirth Dec 2013 #130
And Amazon drones will deliver the food... SomethingFishy Dec 2013 #133
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