General Discussion

saras

(6,670 posts)

45. For me, the problem isn't the concept but the execution (pardon the pun)

Reply to arely staircase (Original post)

Mon Mar 12, 2012, 04:23 AM

Mar 2012

When I think about it seriously, I realize that I trust the people who would kill in the moment - the father that murders a rapist, the mother that blows an intruder away, the soldier who would have offed this drunk before he got to town, MUCH more than I trust our government to do a good, fair job.

...and then I realize that, in spite of my cherry-picked examples, I most emphatically DO NOT trust these people, and others like them, to make good life-and-death decisions.

Due process has failed spectacularly and repeatedly. DNA testing made a lot of prosecutors look silly if not criminal. It's just not good enough to decide who lives and dies, even if you have absolute personal convictions that some particular criminal needs to die.

I think the best system is a universal prohibition that is violated occasionally by people for self-sacrificing moral reasons.

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why i can't oppose the death penalty in all cases [View all] arely staircase Mar 2012 OP

Revenge. flvegan Mar 2012 #1

premature death is certainly punishment arely staircase Mar 2012 #4

No it isn't. It's a release from punishment. flvegan Mar 2012 #11

counting down the moments your certain and imminent death is not punishment? arely staircase Mar 2012 #18

Not as much flvegan Mar 2012 #32

so then you oppose executing this person(s)( because it is not punishment enough? arely staircase Mar 2012 #34

Wow. Correct me if I'm wrong . . . RZM Mar 2012 #78

Then allow me to correct you. flvegan Mar 2012 #94

The Virginia Tech shooter killed 32 and wounded 25. Would you have advocated the death penalty for cherokeeprogressive Mar 2012 #2

i don't advocate the death penalty for the va tech shooter because arely staircase Mar 2012 #6

So YOU get to choose the level of moral reprehensibility? Atman Mar 2012 #46

no, i just think executing someone who has been dead for almost 5 years is a waste of time. arely staircase Mar 2012 #51

LYAO all you want...you know that's not what I posted. Atman Mar 2012 #63

it is precisely what you posted and i am still laughing nt arely staircase Mar 2012 #65

"Would you have..." is NOT the same as "Do you...", is it? cherokeeprogressive Mar 2012 #88

i have addressed all this in another sub-thread. nt arely staircase Mar 2012 #91

I've always been against the DP but when it comes to kids, I'm changing my opinion. polly7 Mar 2012 #3

The DP is not a deterrant and is unevenly applied. EFerrari Mar 2012 #5

you are right on both points arely staircase Mar 2012 #9

I understand. EFerrari Mar 2012 #12

Would you pull that trigger? Would you release that trap door? Luminous Animal Mar 2012 #16

i wouldn't even be willing to personally arrest a mass muderer. nt arely staircase Mar 2012 #24

So you believe in killing people but only if you have to hire killers to kill them. Luminous Animal Mar 2012 #35

nor am i willing to personally arrest, arraign, hold them for trial or try them arely staircase Mar 2012 #39

Gotta say. I can, with good concience, hire someone to pick up my garbage... not so much with Luminous Animal Mar 2012 #41

You can't? Well, I can. 2ndAmForComputers Mar 2012 #7

No matter how you cut it, giving the state... TreasonousBastard Mar 2012 #8

what do you recomend for the slaughter and burning of children? arely staircase Mar 2012 #13

I should point out that Todd Willingham was convicted of burning children Kennah Mar 2012 #20

without a single eyewitness, or confession. quite unlike the case at hand. arely staircase Mar 2012 #26

Not unlike Scott Peterson Kennah Mar 2012 #30

again, i disagree with none of that arely staircase Mar 2012 #33

I do get the emotions involved when children are slaughtered ... Kennah Mar 2012 #38

i would insist that reason, logic and facts be applied in this case arely staircase Mar 2012 #40

Why wouldn't you be willing to assume that they had a "screw loose"... Atman Mar 2012 #79

like i said in the other subthread, the brain injury changes things arely staircase Mar 2012 #92

Post removed Post removed Mar 2012 #95

my, what a rich and wonderful vocabulary you have developed. nt arely staircase Mar 2012 #96

I'll try not to make this sound like a copout, but... TreasonousBastard Mar 2012 #22

i am a big believer in rehabilitation and reform of individuals arely staircase Mar 2012 #28

Life in prison. Obviously. NYC Liberal Mar 2012 #25

The problem is that the culprit isn't always that obvious starroute Mar 2012 #10

no, it would have to be heinous and there be no doubt as to the killer's identity arely staircase Mar 2012 #15

But don't you see, just because YOU think it's heinous... Atman Mar 2012 #47

so i can't think it is heinous? do you actually believe i am proposing a arely staircase Mar 2012 #56

Wow. You've deteriorated a lot since your opening salvo. Atman Mar 2012 #64

your concern is noted; it means a lot, really. nt arely staircase Mar 2012 #66

As if I give a shit. Atman Mar 2012 #73

Then you're left with so few cases it becomes a "cruel and unusual punishment" starroute Mar 2012 #52

i think you are making a circular argument - not trying to be rude - but i think you are arely staircase Mar 2012 #53

I think the different between our positions is that you think of it as "punishment" starroute Mar 2012 #68

your three reasons for punishment arely staircase Mar 2012 #93

Here I think we agree starroute Mar 2012 #98

And one more point occurs to me starroute Mar 2012 #103

i'm going to respond to this and (maybe) couple of other arely staircase Mar 2012 #104

LOL.... Logical Mar 2012 #55

no i don't understand it, because it isn't true arely staircase Mar 2012 #57

So your plan involves changing the whole criminal justice system? And change 'reasonable doubt'.... Logical Mar 2012 #60

then you don't know how it works arely staircase Mar 2012 #61

Most jurys have the chance to pick life in prison. I assume when they choose death they are sure.... Logical Mar 2012 #67

I do understand what you are saying, even I remain opposed in all cases Kennah Mar 2012 #14

except for the "in all cases" part we do not disagree on anything you wrote arely staircase Mar 2012 #31

"I only support the death penalty when I'm really, really upset,... Atman Mar 2012 #74

Prison and the death penalty airplaneman Mar 2012 #17

DP supporters will say Todd Willingham and Troy Davis got Due Process Kennah Mar 2012 #19

It's not about any one case though. Spider Jerusalem Mar 2012 #21

You're right limpyhobbler Mar 2012 #23

I can. It's an antiquated, barbaric practice that brings us down as a civilized society. NYC Liberal Mar 2012 #27

Isn't the soldier likely to be mentally ill? TomClash Mar 2012 #29

Depending on the severity of the crime... davidthegnome Mar 2012 #36

what's wrong with just saying no? iverglas Mar 2012 #37

Some of it is practicality, some of it is common sense - to me davidthegnome Mar 2012 #72

well, I'm glad I don't live where you live iverglas Mar 2012 #87

Anti-human rights, is it? Sorry, but davidthegnome Mar 2012 #99

"no longer entitled to the same rights" - sorry, but iverglas Mar 2012 #107

our military has murdered a lot of women and Poor Children in the past 10 years, what about those? n msongs Mar 2012 #42

As a nurse in a jail I can tell you Lunabelle Mar 2012 #43

It is a good thing unionworks Mar 2012 #48

Hmm davidthegnome Mar 2012 #82

the thing missing unionworks Mar 2012 #86

How can you see humanity in such people? davidthegnome Mar 2012 #100

Who was unionworks Mar 2012 #106

No one brought up Jesus Lunabelle Mar 2012 #108

I did unionworks Mar 2012 #109

I love this story unionworks Mar 2012 #110

Wow, you scare me! Lynch mob mentality! Logical Mar 2012 #101

You know, I defended your position yesterday even though I didn't agree with it DisgustipatedinCA Apr 2012 #111

There is no moral and ethical case for killing someone Major Nikon Mar 2012 #44

If someone is attempting to kill a member of my family, I have a moral and ethical case ... 11 Bravo Mar 2012 #70

The subject seems to be the death penalty Major Nikon Mar 2012 #71

Mea culpa. I took your post literally and not in the context of this thread. 11 Bravo Mar 2012 #77

For me, the problem isn't the concept but the execution (pardon the pun) saras Mar 2012 #45

I fully oppose it. Confinement is a far worse punishment than death. HopeHoops Mar 2012 #49

I'm normally against the death penalty, but I make an exception only for the following meow2u3 Mar 2012 #50

The issue is that many people end up on death row WHO DID NOT commit the murder. How can.... Logical Mar 2012 #54

No, no, you don't understand... Atman Mar 2012 #75

LOL! +1 Logical Mar 2012 #84

Understood. Taverner Mar 2012 #58

Don't like... pipi_k Mar 2012 #59

I oppose it but there are some I don't cry for DevonRex Mar 2012 #62

Your opinion doesn't piss me off and I actually feel sorry for you NNN0LHI Mar 2012 #69

I have less sympathy for those who kill while sane and sober..like the drone operators. Tierra_y_Libertad Mar 2012 #76

Technically speaking, no one deserves anything. ZombieHorde Mar 2012 #80

For the most heinous crimes were agency is certain, I agree. aikoaiko Mar 2012 #81

I'm for the DP under a few conditions backwoodsbob Mar 2012 #83

What if they are mentally ill? immoderate Mar 2012 #85

Will you take it off the table now that you know he had a traumatic brain injury in 2010? cherokeeprogressive Mar 2012 #89

yes it probably would arely staircase Mar 2012 #90

You don't know when to capitalize. Atman Mar 2012 #97

You're such a hardass... I bet seats and chairs hurt when you're done with them. cherokeeprogressive Mar 2012 #102

espero que te repongas pronto arely staircase Mar 2012 #105