General Discussion

MADem

(135,425 posts)

189. Are you the cop? If you're not, you can't insist that you know

Sun Dec 8, 2013, 12:44 PM

Dec 2013

what caused her to reasonably infer that this guy might be trouble. You just cannot make that determination. You also don't "know" that she "just wanted to jerk this guy around." In my experience, the police who like to jerk people around are more likely to be male.

You were not there. You did not observe his behavior, his manner, his demeanor. She was there and she did make these observations, and she used her best judgment. She gets paid to use that judgment, and the fellow in the mask, being a cop himself, should have known that.

Further, I don't think it is typical for a person to impede traffic wearing a mask and holding an upside-down flag close to a demonstration. I rather doubt that the police encounter that particular scenario on the average day.

In any event, he's on "paid administrative leave." I think he might want to start thinking about a new line of work:

He told police he was protesting Obamacare, but still he "was asked several times to remove his mask and produce some form of identification or tell us his name," according to the incident report. "He refused each time."

The incident report does not say whether any other protesters were there during the incident. Harrell wouldn't tell police who he was, "stating his anonymity was his cause, thus the mask. ... He stated the mask was used by movement groups around the world for protest," the police report said.

He only identified himself saying, "I'm a cop, I'm a cop," once police found his .40 caliber pistol in his right waistband and ordered him not to make any sudden movements.

He was charged with obstruction of traffic, and wearing a hood or mask on a street, the report said. Though taken into custody, he wasn't jailed: He instead was given a notice to appear in court, records show.

http://articles.sun-sentinel.com/2013-11-29/news/fl-plantation-police-arrest-20131129_1_mask-trash-bin-police-officer

This guy is being touted far and wide across the anti-Obama/anti-ACA/Paulbot blogosphere. I don't think all that cheerleading is going to help him overmuch.

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Florida Cop Arrested For Wearing �Anonymous� Mask Warns �There�s A War Coming� [View all] Purveyor Dec 2013 OP

How bored he must be BeyondGeography Dec 2013 #1

i was thinking he needs to get laid Heather MC Dec 2013 #3

You know what? I think you have hit the old nail right on the head. pangaia Dec 2013 #96

I wish we had "like" buttons for posts like yours and Heather's.... TheDebbieDee Dec 2013 #101

How's this as a substitute. pangaia Dec 2013 #132

"so they don't reproduce" is in BOLD, and very important nolabels Dec 2013 #161

Message auto-removed Name removed Dec 2013 #148

The right wing media, funded by Kochs and Murdochs, have been stoking this. Cooley Hurd Dec 2013 #2

Not to mention he needs all his weapons impounded Heather MC Dec 2013 #4

Not just the "right wing media," either. MADem Dec 2013 #191

That clown doesn't have both oars in the water. lpbk2713 Dec 2013 #5

I know why he's protesting the ACA. I don't agree with him. Wonder if he listened to Beck or Rush... freshwest Dec 2013 #35

But he does have a cape. rug Dec 2013 #40

And lotsa guns. (nt) Paladin Dec 2013 #49

Anyone concerned about wearing a Guy Fawkes mask being a crime? Comrade Grumpy Dec 2013 #6

I am. Throd Dec 2013 #7

I second that painesghost Dec 2013 #26

Wearing masks is against the law in many municipalities, except on particular nights of exception, MADem Dec 2013 #90

no but two things here arely staircase Dec 2013 #8

I wouldn't call that thing a left wing symbol. A lot of those people who MADem Dec 2013 #91

you have a point arely staircase Dec 2013 #129

That's it, exactly--and the "ironic" crowd who are too cool for politics, and political MADem Dec 2013 #133

This is the New DU after all. RC Dec 2013 #9

No kidding. nt woo me with science Dec 2013 #32

To say nothing of Paulbots and assorted libertarians, concerned about their own freedoms, but not MADem Dec 2013 #114

Good point. davidn3600 Dec 2013 #11

I don't understand why Guy Fawkes was chosen in the first place. NobodyHere Dec 2013 #13

V for Vendetta. NuclearDem Dec 2013 #16

Ironically, Fawkes were turned in by an anonymous letter. Coyotl Dec 2013 #21

The first terrorist I think. Ava Gadro Dec 2013 #34

he was chosen for a stupid movie ProdigalJunkMail Dec 2013 #50

opinions, opinions, opinions demwing Dec 2013 #60

wow... that's deep... n/t ProdigalJunkMail Dec 2013 #77

lather, rinse, repeat /nt demwing Dec 2013 #147

Everyone's an expert you say? Capt. Obvious Dec 2013 #62

i picked the movie because THAT is when the mask took off in popularity ProdigalJunkMail Dec 2013 #76

Your memory is accurate--many more people know the film than are even aware that it was based on a MADem Dec 2013 #87

Do either of you know who made the mask popular and why? Capt. Obvious Dec 2013 #89

I'm sure if we wait long enough, you'll give us your view of it. MADem Dec 2013 #93

I linked to that above Capt. Obvious Dec 2013 #107

No need. Twice is more than sufficient. nt MADem Dec 2013 #112

Careful... 99Forever Dec 2013 #103

Yes, those 'evil' authoritarians...! MADem Dec 2013 #113

You're God Damned right EVIL. 99Forever Dec 2013 #115

They'll meet the same fate that all of us do. MADem Dec 2013 #119

WTF? 99Forever Dec 2013 #121

It's not a "comeback" but how interesting that you regard it as such. MADem Dec 2013 #135

Speaking of "revealing"... 99Forever Dec 2013 #139

What I am is a Democrat who is interested in seeing more Democrats, and fewer Republicans, elected MADem Dec 2013 #142

Oh NOES! 99Forever Dec 2013 #143

I'm enjoying your "performance." MADem Dec 2013 #146

What I'm enjoying... 99Forever Dec 2013 #150

Gee, yet another gratuitous insult...! That's apparently all you've got! MADem Dec 2013 #151

Only an insult to those who fit the bill. 99Forever Dec 2013 #154

Fit what bill? Being a Democrat who supports Democrats for election? That's a crime? MADem Dec 2013 #155

The difference between you and me... 99Forever Dec 2013 #156

Yes, I support "faux" Dems like Elizabeth Warren, Ed Markey, and MADem Dec 2013 #163

You excel at setting up strawmen then whipping their ass. 99Forever Dec 2013 #174

Awww, you mad, bro? MADem Dec 2013 #178

Erm, it's based on a comic. joshcryer Dec 2013 #65

On, now everyone's an expert Capt. Obvious Dec 2013 #66

Don't be jealous I can link paren' wiki links. ;P joshcryer Dec 2013 #68

I was faster to the link Capt. Obvious Dec 2013 #69

Whenever DU screws up you can pop these codes in: joshcryer Dec 2013 #71

no one wore the mask until after the movie... ProdigalJunkMail Dec 2013 #75

That makes you look better Capt. Obvious Dec 2013 #80

yeah... facts are a pesky little thing ProdigalJunkMail Dec 2013 #81

LOL! Capt. Obvious Dec 2013 #82

would you care to suggest an alternative ProdigalJunkMail Dec 2013 #84

2008 Capt. Obvious Dec 2013 #85

figures... n/t ProdigalJunkMail Dec 2013 #86

Yup Capt. Obvious Dec 2013 #88

yup indeed ProdigalJunkMail Dec 2013 #95

If it makes you feel better Capt. Obvious Dec 2013 #105

since you have no answer... n/t ProdigalJunkMail Dec 2013 #108

And you're green Capt. Obvious Dec 2013 #109

interesting retort... ProdigalJunkMail Dec 2013 #111

IIRC it became popular after the Occupy movement took off, so 2011 and after. nt CJCRANE Dec 2013 #99

2008, Annonymous - Church of Scientology Capt. Obvious Dec 2013 #104

More history, here.... MADem Dec 2013 #116

�We weren�t branding experts or anything,� - one of the best unintentionally funny things I've read KittyWampus Dec 2013 #171

That's because Warner Brothers started marketing them. joshcryer Dec 2013 #97

while that may be true ProdigalJunkMail Dec 2013 #98

It's all because Guy Fawkes Day is their 4th of July. joshcryer Dec 2013 #100

i spend a great deal of time in the UK ProdigalJunkMail Dec 2013 #106

actually the graphic novel that movie was based on is terrific, and a critique of Thatcherism's villager Dec 2013 #127

and yet the comic was NOT the inspiration for the ProdigalJunkMail Dec 2013 #130

well, the comic was the inspiration for the movie, and the mask design is straight villager Dec 2013 #138

the film is an adaptation, not an original work. So just like the many plays and Bluenorthwest Dec 2013 #187

last time... without the movie the mask is non-existent. ProdigalJunkMail Dec 2013 #197

Symbols take on new meanings all the time. The Swastika used to mean something very different. sibelian Dec 2013 #206

a comic book arely staircase Dec 2013 #72

People who would rather key their "edgy" protests off of a Warner Brothers film, without MADem Dec 2013 #78

Many southern states Feral Child Dec 2013 #15

But the purpose NOW is to identify those who take part in protests. woo me with science Dec 2013 #30

You're right, of course. Jackpine Radical Dec 2013 #53

Excellent point. Feral Child Dec 2013 #54

and apparantly unstable cops nt arely staircase Dec 2013 #73

yep Joe Shlabotnik Dec 2013 #18

Stunning isn't it? Egalitarian Thug Dec 2013 #22

It's part of a bundle of anti-KKK statutes passed in the early 1950s: struggle4progress Dec 2013 #23

That is not the purpose now, woo me with science Dec 2013 #31

I think saying "A war is coming" puts his behavior in applicable clause 3. hootinholler Dec 2013 #63

Would fall under (4) too. joshcryer Dec 2013 #67

No its not. onenote Dec 2013 #120

FL is a "stop and identify state." joshcryer Dec 2013 #159

Sorry, but I'm not wrong. onenote Dec 2013 #182

Ah! that dreaded Secret Directive Z, which requires inconvenient citizens to don Guy Fawkes masks, struggle4progress Dec 2013 #128

"The corporate state" being, in this case, the Affordable Care Act muriel_volestrangler Dec 2013 #169

Thanks for this relevant bit of history Hekate Dec 2013 #41

Thanks - that section 155 is crucial (on edit: also arrested for obstructing traffic) muriel_volestrangler Dec 2013 #170

Anybody can get a Guy Fawkes mask these days... icymist Dec 2013 #24

+10000 Thank you. woo me with science Dec 2013 #33

Thank you. That was my first thought. nt Mojorabbit Dec 2013 #56

Maybe not cops, but the people who affect those things aren't necessarily lefties, either. nt MADem Dec 2013 #83

No kidding. 99Forever Dec 2013 #92

YES, that is my BIGGEST concern about this story. snot Dec 2013 #203

Congrats to the female officer, she is a professional. nt bluestate10 Dec 2013 #10

Professional in that she enforced a law. Too bad the law is an abomination onenote Dec 2013 #12

Here's a nice photo from Florida in 1951, the year the law was put on the books struggle4progress Dec 2013 #25

I have no problem with criminalizing masks when used in connection with an effort to intimidate onenote Dec 2013 #28

Read the law: struggle4progress Dec 2013 #29

and how did the cop violate this law? onenote Dec 2013 #36

I wasn't there. If the matter goes to trial, a judge would have the jury decide the facts struggle4progress Dec 2013 #45

Good luck getting a jury to convict anyone under these facts warrant46 Dec 2013 #55

Dunno. That might very well be. But I myself seldom think I really know the facts from a news story struggle4progress Dec 2013 #118

Very astute of you warrant46 Dec 2013 #164

My comment to you really has more to do with news stories: when there are several dozen struggle4progress Dec 2013 #194

They're still not listening, are they? Hekate Dec 2013 #42

Which provision of 876.155 was this guy supposedly violating. onenote Dec 2013 #44

876.155 (3) and (4) are easily, trivally, argued. joshcryer Dec 2013 #70

No way that (4) applies as you describe onenote Dec 2013 #117

FL is a "stop and identify" state. joshcryer Dec 2013 #160

He was also charged with obstruction of traffic muriel_volestrangler Dec 2013 #173

"They would not listen. They're not listening still. Perhaps they never will" struggle4progress Dec 2013 #46

That applies to far too many people. randome Dec 2013 #110

LOL he keeps his cape in his truck tkmorris Dec 2013 #14

Too bad there's no phone booths anymore. nt Guy Whitey Corngood Dec 2013 #17

"Who is that Mysterious Masked Protester?" CJCRANE Dec 2013 #58

I think Porta-potties are the new phone booths for the modern era... nt MADem Dec 2013 #137

Lol..Even better. Cha Dec 2013 #202

Hey, as long as Time Warner made a profit off of selling the mask, nyquil_man Dec 2013 #19

I'm fairly sure you have to indentify yourself to a police officer. gvstn Dec 2013 #20

What justification is there for a cop to demand a person engaged in lawful conduct onenote Dec 2013 #37

I don't know but I always heard you have to tell them your name. gvstn Dec 2013 #39

as the material you cite indicate: absent reasonable suspicion that you're engaging in a criminal ac onenote Dec 2013 #43

You can call it 'peaceful protest' and then rob a store on your way out. randome Dec 2013 #52

Then wearing a Halloween mask during a parade should be illegal onenote Dec 2013 #122

Most of those ordinances have a provision for festive occasions, like MADem Dec 2013 #153

and if you're standing on the street holding a protest sign onenote Dec 2013 #157

If your sign says "There's a war coming" I think a reasonable person might think otherwise. MADem Dec 2013 #162

All the "The End Is Nigh" placard holders were intimidating you, were they? muriel_volestrangler Dec 2013 #172

Wow, snide much? "The end is nigh" is religious, "There's a war coming" suggests guns and ammo. MADem Dec 2013 #175

Fuck me, you're criticising someone else for being snide in this thread? muriel_volestrangler Dec 2013 #177

I return a volley, when served. MADem Dec 2013 #181

Get over yourself - I don't have any particular opinion about you muriel_volestrangler Dec 2013 #183

Oh I am "over myself"--that was just an observation, one that MADem Dec 2013 #185

He didn't have such a sign. onenote Dec 2013 #180

I protested against the same war, and I carried signs as well. MADem Dec 2013 #184

Bottom Line: the cop did not act properly in asking Guy Fawkes to identify himself onenote Dec 2013 #188

Are you the cop? If you're not, you can't insist that you know MADem Dec 2013 #189

So when the cops arrested Occupy protesters for wearing masks onenote Dec 2013 #198

Aren't you just the sweetest thing! MADem Dec 2013 #199

Yes I am onenote Dec 2013 #200

But you haven't demonstrated that this arrest has anything to do with either of those. MADem Dec 2013 #201

You haven't pointed to anything that suggests that the constitutional standard onenote Dec 2013 #204

And you haven't pointed to anything save your opinion -- based on an MADem Dec 2013 #205

I see exactly how it works onenote Dec 2013 #207

The cop cites her judgment. That's all the "proof" she needs. MADem Dec 2013 #209

Not every exercise of "judgment" is the exercise of good judgment. onenote Dec 2013 #210

But that cop wasn't this cop, and you weren't there, either. MADem Dec 2013 #211

You weren't there either. onenote Dec 2013 #212

I believe there was a Supreme Court case about this issue (identifying yourself to police) Capt. Obvious Dec 2013 #64

Not exactly onenote Dec 2013 #123

Yes, that case Capt. Obvious Dec 2013 #208

A little Florida history, for those who want to froth and foam about Florida's mask law: struggle4progress Dec 2013 #27

Those photos are chilling. HappyMe Dec 2013 #59

taking up arms against socialism is almost mainstream in right-wing Republican circles now - pumped Douglas Carpenter Dec 2013 #38

Exactly.. sendero Dec 2013 #165

Recently people have challagened no masks laws in federal Court gerogie2 Dec 2013 #47

Link? onenote Dec 2013 #57

SPLC gerogie2 Dec 2013 #168

Easily distinguished onenote Dec 2013 #179

With or without his mask CJCRANE Dec 2013 #48

A Florida cop Carolina Dec 2013 #51

There is plenty of racism and bigotism here. darkangel218 Dec 2013 #134

whatever Florida cop says to you Enrique Dec 2013 #167

How many other Florida cops think there's a war coming? Baitball Blogger Dec 2013 #61

I'm curious WHY he thinks there is a war coming? StrictlyRockers Dec 2013 #74

Thats what Alex Jones tells them. darkangel218 Dec 2013 #136

You know, this may not be right, JimboBillyBubbaBob Dec 2013 #79

I'm wondering ronnie624 Dec 2013 #94

... He told police he was protesting Obamacare .... struggle4progress Dec 2013 #124

Still no quotes on what drives him to protest. ronnie624 Dec 2013 #125

He probably got a call on his walkie-talkie ucrdem Dec 2013 #126

I remember seeing that film in Cambridge MA when it first came out. MADem Dec 2013 #141

^^ Wow. Beautiful print. Highly recommended ^^ ucrdem Dec 2013 #149

I can't believe I saw that film over forty years ago! MADem Dec 2013 #152

Armed man, in mask, wearing cape, warns folk of coming war, says it's time to fight, as a protest struggle4progress Dec 2013 #140

He doesn't mention "Obamacare" in his interview. ronnie624 Dec 2013 #158

... He told police he was protesting Obamacare ... struggle4progress Dec 2013 #192

That's what the author of the article said, not him. ronnie624 Dec 2013 #193

So we agree rather limited information is available in the reports struggle4progress Dec 2013 #196

This struck me as well. salin Dec 2013 #144

I stand corrected per the local newspaper story salin Dec 2013 #145

Maybe he doesn't really know what he's protesting CJCRANE Dec 2013 #166

+ struggle4progress Dec 2013 #195

Revelation of the method? ucrdem Dec 2013 #102

Moron. Well, in his case, moran. catbyte Dec 2013 #131

Good thing he forgot to put on the costume in a phone booth randr Dec 2013 #176

Some cops love wearing their balaclavas JustABozoOnThisBus Dec 2013 #186

Those are French police, not Florida police. MADem Dec 2013 #190