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Demo_Chris

(6,234 posts)

43. Very interesting, thanks for sharing this. You are clearly familiar with the issue...

Wed Dec 11, 2013, 05:27 PM

Dec 2013

Obviously this was a long time coming. There never should have been a pension holiday in the first place, and if the schools (or city) needed the money then they should have raised taxes or dealt with it some other way. But as I have said all along, that's not what happened. Everyone just kicked the can down the road, assuming (as usual) that they would just be able to stick young people with the bill.

In some areas that will probably work. It's certainly worked out that way at the national level.

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America�s Retirement Crisis Grows as Cities Raid Pension and Health Plans [View all] xchrom Dec 2013 OP

Recommended 1000X and also kicked. Enthusiast Dec 2013 #1

So many things to say rurallib Dec 2013 #2

So Boomers didn't want to pay the taxes necessary to fund these while they were working... Demo_Chris Dec 2013 #3

What you're missing is that the current workers *are* the Boomers starroute Dec 2013 #8

Can you elaborate: How are the boomers getting screwed? Demo_Chris Dec 2013 #9

The "young people today" are driving on the roads and studying in the schools that were... Gidney N Cloyd Dec 2013 #12

So your argument is that the crumbling infrastructure... Demo_Chris Dec 2013 #23

I don't think I can improve much on El_Johns' Post 27 below, but... Gidney N Cloyd Dec 2013 #31

But texes WERE cut. They were cut dramatically at both the federal and state levels.... Demo_Chris Dec 2013 #39

Taxes were cut -- for who? I think if we really examine what happened in depth, we'd see a shift El_Johns Dec 2013 #50

By the way, Welcome to DU! Gidney N Cloyd Dec 2013 #51

Thanks for the welcome. I am pretty well outraged by the outright theft that's going on & the BS El_Johns Dec 2013 #52

Fair enough, but it's a better story the way I tell it. Mine's got more villains. nt Demo_Chris Dec 2013 #63

Is that your interest here, telling stories? El_Johns Dec 2013 #64

No, it was a figure of speech and effort to lighten the mood. nt Demo_Chris Dec 2013 #65

Sounds like you have several issues smooshed together. dixiegrrrrl Dec 2013 #36

Great post! You do seem to be slipping around the point a bit... Demo_Chris Dec 2013 #44

Where are you hearing that boomers are demanding their kids and grandkids pay for them? dixiegrrrrl Dec 2013 #53

Someone hacks your account to move money from your bank account to theirs; I presume you El_Johns Dec 2013 #54

Although Sgent Dec 2013 #47

As a group the top 20% own 80% of the wealth of the country. The 65-plussers who are not in El_Johns Dec 2013 #56

Well if all 4 Walmart heirs are 65+ TBF Dec 2013 #57

I had one of those contracts. dixiegrrrrl Dec 2013 #61

The Young Republican club is thataway, whippersnapper. Comrade Grumpy Dec 2013 #13

Address the point or wander off. nt Demo_Chris Dec 2013 #21

The point is your broad-brush attack on an entire generation is silly and unproductive. Comrade Grumpy Dec 2013 #58

You know the world is a lot more complicated than you can upaloopa Dec 2013 #37

You are missing the point that 40% of the wealth in this country TBF Dec 2013 #59

Yes, we do. nt Demo_Chris Dec 2013 #66

I have been a public employee for about 20 years Puzzledtraveller Dec 2013 #4

This is the backdrop agaonst which the Chained CPI is being pushed Tom Rinaldo Dec 2013 #5

And you thought it was only Detroit. Octafish Dec 2013 #6

And Detroit's pensions are comparatively well funded, and thus they're attractive to thieves. Gidney N Cloyd Dec 2013 #19

They are not looting the piggy bank; the money was never put in the piggy bank. FarCenter Dec 2013 #7

Right. And everyone has always known it... Demo_Chris Dec 2013 #10

Detroit's pensions are 91% funded. El_Johns Dec 2013 #24

Perhaps... Demo_Chris Dec 2013 #26

It's not a matter of people "disagreeing". It's a matter of what the numbers show. The taxes El_Johns Dec 2013 #27

18 years ago the CPS decided to divert the money from the pension funds... Demo_Chris Dec 2013 #34

First, "CPS" didn't decide. Paul Vallas was the driving force behind it; he is well-known for El_Johns Dec 2013 #38

Very interesting, thanks for sharing this. You are clearly familiar with the issue... Demo_Chris Dec 2013 #43

I find nothing to disagree with in your post. But: it may have been kick the can for some but El_Johns Dec 2013 #46

The side question, which I have focussed on and which motivates me, is fairness... Demo_Chris Dec 2013 #49

Sorry, I had to create an account to say that in the case of Detroit you are wrong. Detroit's El_Johns Dec 2013 #22

The underfunding is mainly the 3.5 B shortfall FarCenter Dec 2013 #29

The "shortfall" is defined over an actuarial window. Do you have any idea what that window is? El_Johns Dec 2013 #30

I would think that you would compute the current value of expected payouts to the beneficiaries. FarCenter Dec 2013 #32

Usually there's a defined window. The pension began before current retirees & workers were El_Johns Dec 2013 #40

That may be, but it can then lead to distortions depending on whether the org is growing. FarCenter Dec 2013 #41

The question is, what is the true status of the pension funds within normal actuarial assumptions. El_Johns Dec 2013 #42

I cannot understand why anyone is surprised by this. SoCalDem Dec 2013 #11

my dad & many more retired with good pensions from caterpillar. xchrom Dec 2013 #18

They were lucky. How many construction equipment companies went bust last century? FarCenter Dec 2013 #45

City pensions are crazy and will be cut taught_me_patience Dec 2013 #14

huh. well that's interesting. xchrom Dec 2013 #16

Wow. Le Taz Hot Dec 2013 #17

Please proceed. nt TBF Dec 2013 #25

Here you go... taught_me_patience Dec 2013 #28

Here you go: El_Johns Dec 2013 #33

No surprise that you linked to an article featuring republican TBF Dec 2013 #55

HUGE K & R !!! WillyT Dec 2013 #15

It is never good when people lose mstinamotorcity2 Dec 2013 #20

Perhaps this is just a glimpse of how destitute tens of millions of elders are likely to be in the indepat Dec 2013 #35

"even wealthy San Jose" KamaAina Dec 2013 #48

KnR. nt tblue37 Dec 2013 #60

"the question is not whether the cuts are coming, but how will they unfold" Skittles Dec 2013 #62