General Discussion

Sgent

(5,858 posts)

47. Although

Wed Dec 11, 2013, 05:38 PM

Dec 2013

partially paid for, the employers never took near enough money from the employee, or kicked in enough, to full fund the benefits.

I can go to an AAA rated insurance company today, and buy a contract that will pay me $X for the rest of my life starting at age 65 -- guaranteed. The employer's / employees often only set aside 30-40% of that amount into their pension funds, and now expect the current generation of tax payers to make of their shortfall.

Finally, as a group those 65+ own most of the wealth in this country.

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America�s Retirement Crisis Grows as Cities Raid Pension and Health Plans [View all] xchrom Dec 2013 OP

Recommended 1000X and also kicked. Enthusiast Dec 2013 #1

So many things to say rurallib Dec 2013 #2

So Boomers didn't want to pay the taxes necessary to fund these while they were working... Demo_Chris Dec 2013 #3

What you're missing is that the current workers *are* the Boomers starroute Dec 2013 #8

Can you elaborate: How are the boomers getting screwed? Demo_Chris Dec 2013 #9

The "young people today" are driving on the roads and studying in the schools that were... Gidney N Cloyd Dec 2013 #12

So your argument is that the crumbling infrastructure... Demo_Chris Dec 2013 #23

I don't think I can improve much on El_Johns' Post 27 below, but... Gidney N Cloyd Dec 2013 #31

But texes WERE cut. They were cut dramatically at both the federal and state levels.... Demo_Chris Dec 2013 #39

Taxes were cut -- for who? I think if we really examine what happened in depth, we'd see a shift El_Johns Dec 2013 #50

By the way, Welcome to DU! Gidney N Cloyd Dec 2013 #51

Thanks for the welcome. I am pretty well outraged by the outright theft that's going on & the BS El_Johns Dec 2013 #52

Fair enough, but it's a better story the way I tell it. Mine's got more villains. nt Demo_Chris Dec 2013 #63

Is that your interest here, telling stories? El_Johns Dec 2013 #64

No, it was a figure of speech and effort to lighten the mood. nt Demo_Chris Dec 2013 #65

Sounds like you have several issues smooshed together. dixiegrrrrl Dec 2013 #36

Great post! You do seem to be slipping around the point a bit... Demo_Chris Dec 2013 #44

Where are you hearing that boomers are demanding their kids and grandkids pay for them? dixiegrrrrl Dec 2013 #53

Someone hacks your account to move money from your bank account to theirs; I presume you El_Johns Dec 2013 #54

Although Sgent Dec 2013 #47

As a group the top 20% own 80% of the wealth of the country. The 65-plussers who are not in El_Johns Dec 2013 #56

Well if all 4 Walmart heirs are 65+ TBF Dec 2013 #57

I had one of those contracts. dixiegrrrrl Dec 2013 #61

The Young Republican club is thataway, whippersnapper. Comrade Grumpy Dec 2013 #13

Address the point or wander off. nt Demo_Chris Dec 2013 #21

The point is your broad-brush attack on an entire generation is silly and unproductive. Comrade Grumpy Dec 2013 #58

You know the world is a lot more complicated than you can upaloopa Dec 2013 #37

You are missing the point that 40% of the wealth in this country TBF Dec 2013 #59

Yes, we do. nt Demo_Chris Dec 2013 #66

I have been a public employee for about 20 years Puzzledtraveller Dec 2013 #4

This is the backdrop agaonst which the Chained CPI is being pushed Tom Rinaldo Dec 2013 #5

And you thought it was only Detroit. Octafish Dec 2013 #6

And Detroit's pensions are comparatively well funded, and thus they're attractive to thieves. Gidney N Cloyd Dec 2013 #19

They are not looting the piggy bank; the money was never put in the piggy bank. FarCenter Dec 2013 #7

Right. And everyone has always known it... Demo_Chris Dec 2013 #10

Detroit's pensions are 91% funded. El_Johns Dec 2013 #24

Perhaps... Demo_Chris Dec 2013 #26

It's not a matter of people "disagreeing". It's a matter of what the numbers show. The taxes El_Johns Dec 2013 #27

18 years ago the CPS decided to divert the money from the pension funds... Demo_Chris Dec 2013 #34

First, "CPS" didn't decide. Paul Vallas was the driving force behind it; he is well-known for El_Johns Dec 2013 #38

Very interesting, thanks for sharing this. You are clearly familiar with the issue... Demo_Chris Dec 2013 #43

I find nothing to disagree with in your post. But: it may have been kick the can for some but El_Johns Dec 2013 #46

The side question, which I have focussed on and which motivates me, is fairness... Demo_Chris Dec 2013 #49

Sorry, I had to create an account to say that in the case of Detroit you are wrong. Detroit's El_Johns Dec 2013 #22

The underfunding is mainly the 3.5 B shortfall FarCenter Dec 2013 #29

The "shortfall" is defined over an actuarial window. Do you have any idea what that window is? El_Johns Dec 2013 #30

I would think that you would compute the current value of expected payouts to the beneficiaries. FarCenter Dec 2013 #32

Usually there's a defined window. The pension began before current retirees & workers were El_Johns Dec 2013 #40

That may be, but it can then lead to distortions depending on whether the org is growing. FarCenter Dec 2013 #41

The question is, what is the true status of the pension funds within normal actuarial assumptions. El_Johns Dec 2013 #42

I cannot understand why anyone is surprised by this. SoCalDem Dec 2013 #11

my dad & many more retired with good pensions from caterpillar. xchrom Dec 2013 #18

They were lucky. How many construction equipment companies went bust last century? FarCenter Dec 2013 #45

City pensions are crazy and will be cut taught_me_patience Dec 2013 #14

huh. well that's interesting. xchrom Dec 2013 #16

Wow. Le Taz Hot Dec 2013 #17

Please proceed. nt TBF Dec 2013 #25

Here you go... taught_me_patience Dec 2013 #28

Here you go: El_Johns Dec 2013 #33

No surprise that you linked to an article featuring republican TBF Dec 2013 #55

HUGE K & R !!! WillyT Dec 2013 #15

It is never good when people lose mstinamotorcity2 Dec 2013 #20

Perhaps this is just a glimpse of how destitute tens of millions of elders are likely to be in the indepat Dec 2013 #35

"even wealthy San Jose" KamaAina Dec 2013 #48

KnR. nt tblue37 Dec 2013 #60

"the question is not whether the cuts are coming, but how will they unfold" Skittles Dec 2013 #62