General Discussion

seabeyond

(110,159 posts)

88. people differ on the view. i am not buying one way or another. i think most people are feeling the

Thu Dec 12, 2013, 01:09 AM

Dec 2013

same listening to both presentations.

but i also recognize that the countries that have legalized it see that as a failure too. doesnt seem to be the answer.

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Prostitution: why Swedes believe they got it right (targeting the men who pay for sex) [View all] pampango Dec 2013 OP

Same in France now too as of last week. dipsydoodle Dec 2013 #1

"Selling is legal; fucking is legal. Why isn't selling fucking legal?" FiveGoodMen Dec 2013 #2

Why shouldn't it be a "job"? sendero Dec 2013 #125

Makes sense for illegal immigration too - hit the people paying and... polichick Dec 2013 #3

they did that in the 80's? and it worked. maybe late 70's. nt seabeyond Dec 2013 #10

No 'they' didn't. Reagan gave amnesty to the illegals in '86 and it didn't work then, Egalitarian Thug Dec 2013 #103

"the illegals"? redqueen Dec 2013 #107

By all means, ignore the facts and jump on the irrelevant. Egalitarian Thug Dec 2013 #109

The 'phraseology' that you use from one thread to the next Sheldon Cooper Dec 2013 #126

The Dutch have it correct. 1000words Dec 2013 #4

they also have an escalation of sex slave trafficking and the prostitutes are abused as much if not seabeyond Dec 2013 #11

So does Sweden Major Nikon Dec 2013 #42

germany, ireland, france, australia and even amsterdamn are all looking to shift. nt seabeyond Dec 2013 #63

Then they should look at the actual outcomes the Swedish model produced Major Nikon Dec 2013 #66

really clever people. i am sure they are. why would you think they are not? they tried seabeyond Dec 2013 #68

There's more research out there than that which you limit yourself to Major Nikon Dec 2013 #73

that was really hitting it out in left field with a couple wild pitches in my direction. whatever seabeyond Dec 2013 #76

And some legalization efforts may have been a failure Major Nikon Dec 2013 #86

people differ on the view. i am not buying one way or another. i think most people are feeling the seabeyond Dec 2013 #88

The countries where it remains illegal see THAT as a fail. EOTE Dec 2013 #124

What two consenting adults do in private should be left private, including trading sex for money. lightcameron Dec 2013 #5

Yeah. Cause prostitution is only about consenting adults. Squinch Dec 2013 #7

If you say so. lightcameron Dec 2013 #8

yet, you can only stomach the conversation when it is nicely wrapped up in the "pretty woman", seabeyond Dec 2013 #12

I can stomach the conversation. No problem. lightcameron Dec 2013 #23

and this would be the illusion wyou create that you can only narrowly define it in such a manner seabeyond Dec 2013 #25

Ah, I see. Now we get to the heart of the matter here. lightcameron Dec 2013 #26

no. you did not get to the "heart of the matter". you swung and missed. but, a predictable seabeyond Dec 2013 #27

Right. lightcameron Dec 2013 #28

"pretty woman" seems to be all you hold near and dear in the huge scope of the issue, cameron. seabeyond Dec 2013 #29

Obviously, you're just looking for someone to argue with. lightcameron Dec 2013 #30

lol. wowser. whatevah. stay with pretty woman, then you can digest the abuse, the trafficking, seabeyond Dec 2013 #31

I don't see it as a choice treestar Dec 2013 #71

Yep. There's a reason that most of the prostitutes in Germany and Amsterdam are foreign nationals. redqueen Dec 2013 #108

Much as the phrase "consenting adults" in these discussions means "I have a right to pay for sex..." LanternWaste Dec 2013 #140

Prostitution is not consent. You have a weird notion about what "consent" is. duffyduff Dec 2013 #20

Sounds like you're always in the rooms when the deals go down. lightcameron Dec 2013 #22

But the state does have the right to regulate commerce exboyfil Dec 2013 #85

"If "civil libertarians" are ever right about a goddamned thing it would be a miracle." ProudToBeBlueInRhody Dec 2013 #32

Financial pressures can make people work at McD's and Walmart too. Vashta Nerada Dec 2013 #33

This message was self-deleted by its author seabeyond Dec 2013 #35

*cough* Vashta Nerada Dec 2013 #38

ya, the realities. fuck it. live in illusions. so much more comfortable. nt seabeyond Dec 2013 #39

Lower-tier prostitutes don't do particularly better than walmart workers. It's the same system El_Johns Dec 2013 #41

Oh Jesus, that idiotic talking point. geek tragedy Dec 2013 #48

It's the same. Vashta Nerada Dec 2013 #49

Because wearing a cheesy blue vest and stocking shelves is not as degrading geek tragedy Dec 2013 #52

Oh yes. Vashta Nerada Dec 2013 #53

What do they get to put on their resume geek tragedy Dec 2013 #55

"Homemaker" LadyHawkAZ Dec 2013 #67

i beg your pardon? clarification please... just checkin'. nt seabeyond Dec 2013 #69

It's a good way to fill in employment gaps on a resume/application when you're working LadyHawkAZ Dec 2013 #74

ok. probably more efficient putting prostitute than homemaker. but.. ok. thanks. nt seabeyond Dec 2013 #77

See response below. LadyHawkAZ Dec 2013 #79

ya. i read it. being a bit facetious. but, ya. nt seabeyond Dec 2013 #81

So, lie? Also, putting 'homemaker' on a resume is not generally done geek tragedy Dec 2013 #75

It's better than "prostitute" LadyHawkAZ Dec 2013 #78

I favor decriminalizing it for the women. geek tragedy Dec 2013 #120

Of course you do, bless your manly heart LadyHawkAZ Dec 2013 #146

Heh, you go on telling yourself that defending an institition created to serve men geek tragedy Dec 2013 #148

You go on telling yourself that a defending a "solution" responsible for LadyHawkAZ Dec 2013 #150

You claim to have facts and statistics on your side. geek tragedy Dec 2013 #152

MacKinnon the "ban porn" crusader? LadyHawkAZ Dec 2013 #158

Yeah, those French Socialist and Swedes are a bunch of rightwingers. geek tragedy Dec 2013 #159

People can be primarily liberal and still have gender biases that are extreme right-wing LadyHawkAZ Dec 2013 #163

asdf geek tragedy Dec 2013 #164

. LadyHawkAZ Dec 2013 #165

yawn. geek tragedy Dec 2013 #166

... LadyHawkAZ Dec 2013 #167

Hey, if you think I'm misogynist for disliking men who wank to rape porn . . . geek tragedy Dec 2013 #173

I don't care how you like to have sex LadyHawkAZ Dec 2013 #174

bahahahawahahaha. omg. funny. tears of laughter over here. Tuesday Afternoon Dec 2013 #80

I imagine many people tell themselves that. LanternWaste Dec 2013 #141

I think you have at last hit on one thing that's good about those jobs treestar Dec 2013 #72

Oh? Vashta Nerada Dec 2013 #92

Those things could happen, but don't see how you could consider it at all comparable treestar Dec 2013 #155

You also don't think anyone can consent to have sex in front of a camera, right? Warren DeMontague Dec 2013 #43

Why on earth would anyone consent to $200 for 5 minutes work? Major Nikon Dec 2013 #57

So, you're saying that people with financial pressures and/or drug addiction shouldn't be allowed to EOTE Dec 2013 #127

Financial transactions are the clearest form of consent. n/t lumberjack_jeff Dec 2013 #130

Just ask any loan shark... LanternWaste Dec 2013 #142

There are prostitutes who aren't on any drugs and enjoy getting paid for sex. phleshdef Dec 2013 #168

Fencing stolen property. "two consenting adults in private" Cerridwen Dec 2013 #37

Working without overtime or minimum wage=consenting adults. geek tragedy Dec 2013 #47

fascism. Cerridwen Dec 2013 #51

Absolutely I'm selective about it. Your examples involve a third party lightcameron Dec 2013 #82

Whole field of strawmen there. phleshdef Dec 2013 #169

It's always been illegal in America, and it's not stopping it here davidn3600 Dec 2013 #6

It wasn't illegal in most places Nevernose Dec 2013 #40

The Nordic model is a failure LittleBlue Dec 2013 #9

Ending gender-based exploitation is not 'prudish' geek tragedy Dec 2013 #13

a) That's simply not true, and b) if it were true, it would be a reason *not* to ban prostitution. Donald Ian Rankin Dec 2013 #15

(a) they aren't eligible for unemployment; (b) demand reduction is part of the geek tragedy Dec 2013 #16

point on. not that any one will listen to the obvious. nt seabeyond Dec 2013 #24

At most, "follow, if and when that has succeeded", not "be joined to". N.T. Donald Ian Rankin Dec 2013 #112

My elderly relatives told me that prostitution grew in their farming town during the Depression & El_Johns Dec 2013 #36

The Socialists in France who championed the bill there did a wonderful job defending it. redqueen Dec 2013 #17

boners uber alles explains a lot of impassioned libertarian-style geek tragedy Dec 2013 #18

That is the inevitable end to this path. None of the nations did what they did Egalitarian Thug Dec 2013 #104

Wrong. redqueen Dec 2013 #105

Wow. that's one hell of an informative post Number23 Dec 2013 #161

Baloney. Men have no right to exploit women. duffyduff Dec 2013 #19

You might as well say that gravity has no right to hold us to the earth LittleBlue Dec 2013 #21

Ugh, you must have a really low opinion of men. This is what real misandry looks like. geek tragedy Dec 2013 #45

we will. watch, work and see. Tuesday Afternoon Dec 2013 #83

You must have an awfully low opinion of women. EOTE Dec 2013 #128

I reject your Libertarian frame of reference on this. geek tragedy Dec 2013 #129

No, they're not even close to the same arguments. EOTE Dec 2013 #131

And here we see the lie that men tell themselves so that they geek tragedy Dec 2013 #135

Thanks for proving my point. EOTE Dec 2013 #137

My wife works with prostitution survivors. geek tragedy Dec 2013 #138

Well, that makes you MORE than qualified to tell women what's best for them. EOTE Dec 2013 #139

I reject your "government inside of my bedroom" frame of reference on this. phleshdef Dec 2013 #170

if it's economic activity the government is perfectly justified in regulating geek tragedy Dec 2013 #171

I'm all for regulated prostitution. phleshdef Dec 2013 #172

Guttmacher tells me that 3/4 of all abortions are due to financial reasons LadyHawkAZ Dec 2013 #91

Well, I was going to bed ......... polly7 Dec 2013 #94

I can probably guess what it will be LadyHawkAZ Dec 2013 #98

Crickets so far Major Nikon Dec 2013 #110

I'm glad I didn't wait up too long. polly7 Dec 2013 #117

Great article! LadyHawkAZ Dec 2013 #147

Guttmacher says no such thing. That's a pretty big misstatement... riderinthestorm Dec 2013 #144

My bad. 73%, not 75% LadyHawkAZ Dec 2013 #145

Your call. Deliberately distorting Guttmacher's research conclusions for your own agenda riderinthestorm Dec 2013 #160

How much financial pressure forced Suzy Hamilton to rake in $600 an hour? NoOneMan Dec 2013 #102

You can extend that argument as far as you like and the results will remain exactly the same. Egalitarian Thug Dec 2013 #106

"It's about protecting the women!" LadyHawkAZ Dec 2013 #34

"Patriarchal thinking, condensed and repackaged as concern. " Bonobo Dec 2013 #44

Here, this is up your alley LadyHawkAZ Dec 2013 #113

The lack of cognitive dissonance is what's most striking Major Nikon Dec 2013 #114

Wow, when you put it that way, it is so clear. The irony is overpowering. Bonobo Dec 2013 #115

"Trafficking" has become synonymous in the public mind with "sex trafficking", LadyHawkAZ Dec 2013 #149

It was never about protecting the women Major Nikon Dec 2013 #46

heh, mr "the 'no means no' meme is bullshit" is purporting to speak on geek tragedy Dec 2013 #54

So I'm not allowed to reference a study authored by two feminists because you said so? Major Nikon Dec 2013 #60

The feminists did not say "the no means no meme is bullshit" geek tragedy Dec 2013 #61

good analogy about forcing desert down someones throat cause they "appear" as if maybe they really seabeyond Dec 2013 #64

Well, that would require treating her like a human being at all times. geek tragedy Dec 2013 #65

lol. you know, that stuff. nt seabeyond Dec 2013 #70

Actually I could care less about him Major Nikon Dec 2013 #84

he validates family members being sexually involved and he promotes rape. now was how many decades seabeyond Dec 2013 #87

So outside the echo chambers who is saying this about him? Major Nikon Dec 2013 #90

We have forgotten that before we began calling this date rape and date fraud, we called it exciting. seabeyond Dec 2013 #93

Game, set, match... Major Nikon Dec 2013 #96

you are saying those are not actual quotes out of the book? that these words are not being read by seabeyond Dec 2013 #97

Is this not the actual data from the study? Major Nikon Dec 2013 #100

ok. i am not gonna read all that garbage trying to find out how it is game set match when i quote seabeyond Dec 2013 #99

Had you ever asked me my thoughts on the subject you might find they align quite well with yours Major Nikon Dec 2013 #101

You're the one digging in and defending someone explicitly arguing to legalize rape geek tragedy Dec 2013 #119

You have no idea what you're talking about Major Nikon Dec 2013 #122

This is what you're defending: geek tragedy Dec 2013 #123

I never did defend it Major Nikon Dec 2013 #132

You're linking to a wikipedia page instead of trying to defend that language. geek tragedy Dec 2013 #134

Why should I bother spending time debunking your baseless accusations when that's already been done? Major Nikon Dec 2013 #153

Defend the language, using your own words. nt geek tragedy Dec 2013 #154

Read the book yourself Major Nikon Dec 2013 #157

I'm sure you think you are clever for coming up with all of this Major Nikon Dec 2013 #95

That you consider legalizing date rape a rational argument says enough. nt geek tragedy Dec 2013 #118

Defamation seems to be your strong suit Major Nikon Dec 2013 #121

I know. LadyHawkAZ Dec 2013 #58

+1 idwiyo Dec 2013 #116

Message auto-removed Name removed Dec 2013 #14

Just throwing out there that many USA state statutes criminalize the acts of soliciting prostitution Johonny Dec 2013 #50

fucking people for money is called capitalism when it's done by businessmen Skittles Dec 2013 #56

There's a big difference between fucking someone and getting fucked in capitalism geek tragedy Dec 2013 #59

I am not a big fan of prostitution Skittles Dec 2013 #62

I agree upi402 Dec 2013 #89

I can't think of one instance where banning the vices of consenting adults has worked Major Nikon Dec 2013 #111

Banning prostitution is like stopping the tide upi402 Dec 2013 #162

Hey, I have an idea! Let's try this with the war on drugs! lumberjack_jeff Dec 2013 #133

Let's try it with extortion, too! LanternWaste Dec 2013 #143

First, we should try it with people who serially repeat themselves! Warren DeMontague Dec 2013 #156

So they're going after "demand" in hope hughee99 Dec 2013 #136

Still many questions Joel thakkar Dec 2013 #151