General Discussion

geek tragedy

(68,868 posts)

166. yawn.

Fri Dec 13, 2013, 11:14 AM

Dec 2013

1. Marriage is a partnership, a union. Prostitution is exploitation that depends upon gross social inequality.

2. Spare me the sanctimony on 'sl@t-shaming"--people can do orgies, swinging, water sports, BDSM, whatever they want--so long as the experience is intended to satisfy all participating, that's not degrading. Exploitation via economic, social, and gender inequality is degrading. The antonym of degrading is not misogyny.

3. That you view cable television as fundamentally the same as human sexuality is very telling.

4. Ann Jordan has argued against legislation targeting pimps. She's argued on behalf of pimps that trafficking laws are unnecessary, since forced labor etc already cover them. So, there ya go--she opposes trafficking so long as you define the term to rape at gunpoint. She's ALEC to the pimps' and sex traffickers' Koch Brothers, and a collaborator with the moneyed interests who seek to exploit women.

5. Yes, there are men in prostitution, most often being sold to other men.

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Prostitution: why Swedes believe they got it right (targeting the men who pay for sex) [View all] pampango Dec 2013 OP

Same in France now too as of last week. dipsydoodle Dec 2013 #1

"Selling is legal; fucking is legal. Why isn't selling fucking legal?" FiveGoodMen Dec 2013 #2

Why shouldn't it be a "job"? sendero Dec 2013 #125

Makes sense for illegal immigration too - hit the people paying and... polichick Dec 2013 #3

they did that in the 80's? and it worked. maybe late 70's. nt seabeyond Dec 2013 #10

No 'they' didn't. Reagan gave amnesty to the illegals in '86 and it didn't work then, Egalitarian Thug Dec 2013 #103

"the illegals"? redqueen Dec 2013 #107

By all means, ignore the facts and jump on the irrelevant. Egalitarian Thug Dec 2013 #109

The 'phraseology' that you use from one thread to the next Sheldon Cooper Dec 2013 #126

The Dutch have it correct. 1000words Dec 2013 #4

they also have an escalation of sex slave trafficking and the prostitutes are abused as much if not seabeyond Dec 2013 #11

So does Sweden Major Nikon Dec 2013 #42

germany, ireland, france, australia and even amsterdamn are all looking to shift. nt seabeyond Dec 2013 #63

Then they should look at the actual outcomes the Swedish model produced Major Nikon Dec 2013 #66

really clever people. i am sure they are. why would you think they are not? they tried seabeyond Dec 2013 #68

There's more research out there than that which you limit yourself to Major Nikon Dec 2013 #73

that was really hitting it out in left field with a couple wild pitches in my direction. whatever seabeyond Dec 2013 #76

And some legalization efforts may have been a failure Major Nikon Dec 2013 #86

people differ on the view. i am not buying one way or another. i think most people are feeling the seabeyond Dec 2013 #88

The countries where it remains illegal see THAT as a fail. EOTE Dec 2013 #124

What two consenting adults do in private should be left private, including trading sex for money. lightcameron Dec 2013 #5

Yeah. Cause prostitution is only about consenting adults. Squinch Dec 2013 #7

If you say so. lightcameron Dec 2013 #8

yet, you can only stomach the conversation when it is nicely wrapped up in the "pretty woman", seabeyond Dec 2013 #12

I can stomach the conversation. No problem. lightcameron Dec 2013 #23

and this would be the illusion wyou create that you can only narrowly define it in such a manner seabeyond Dec 2013 #25

Ah, I see. Now we get to the heart of the matter here. lightcameron Dec 2013 #26

no. you did not get to the "heart of the matter". you swung and missed. but, a predictable seabeyond Dec 2013 #27

Right. lightcameron Dec 2013 #28

"pretty woman" seems to be all you hold near and dear in the huge scope of the issue, cameron. seabeyond Dec 2013 #29

Obviously, you're just looking for someone to argue with. lightcameron Dec 2013 #30

lol. wowser. whatevah. stay with pretty woman, then you can digest the abuse, the trafficking, seabeyond Dec 2013 #31

I don't see it as a choice treestar Dec 2013 #71

Yep. There's a reason that most of the prostitutes in Germany and Amsterdam are foreign nationals. redqueen Dec 2013 #108

Much as the phrase "consenting adults" in these discussions means "I have a right to pay for sex..." LanternWaste Dec 2013 #140

Prostitution is not consent. You have a weird notion about what "consent" is. duffyduff Dec 2013 #20

Sounds like you're always in the rooms when the deals go down. lightcameron Dec 2013 #22

But the state does have the right to regulate commerce exboyfil Dec 2013 #85

"If "civil libertarians" are ever right about a goddamned thing it would be a miracle." ProudToBeBlueInRhody Dec 2013 #32

Financial pressures can make people work at McD's and Walmart too. Vashta Nerada Dec 2013 #33

This message was self-deleted by its author seabeyond Dec 2013 #35

*cough* Vashta Nerada Dec 2013 #38

ya, the realities. fuck it. live in illusions. so much more comfortable. nt seabeyond Dec 2013 #39

Lower-tier prostitutes don't do particularly better than walmart workers. It's the same system El_Johns Dec 2013 #41

Oh Jesus, that idiotic talking point. geek tragedy Dec 2013 #48

It's the same. Vashta Nerada Dec 2013 #49

Because wearing a cheesy blue vest and stocking shelves is not as degrading geek tragedy Dec 2013 #52

Oh yes. Vashta Nerada Dec 2013 #53

What do they get to put on their resume geek tragedy Dec 2013 #55

"Homemaker" LadyHawkAZ Dec 2013 #67

i beg your pardon? clarification please... just checkin'. nt seabeyond Dec 2013 #69

It's a good way to fill in employment gaps on a resume/application when you're working LadyHawkAZ Dec 2013 #74

ok. probably more efficient putting prostitute than homemaker. but.. ok. thanks. nt seabeyond Dec 2013 #77

See response below. LadyHawkAZ Dec 2013 #79

ya. i read it. being a bit facetious. but, ya. nt seabeyond Dec 2013 #81

So, lie? Also, putting 'homemaker' on a resume is not generally done geek tragedy Dec 2013 #75

It's better than "prostitute" LadyHawkAZ Dec 2013 #78

I favor decriminalizing it for the women. geek tragedy Dec 2013 #120

Of course you do, bless your manly heart LadyHawkAZ Dec 2013 #146

Heh, you go on telling yourself that defending an institition created to serve men geek tragedy Dec 2013 #148

You go on telling yourself that a defending a "solution" responsible for LadyHawkAZ Dec 2013 #150

You claim to have facts and statistics on your side. geek tragedy Dec 2013 #152

MacKinnon the "ban porn" crusader? LadyHawkAZ Dec 2013 #158

Yeah, those French Socialist and Swedes are a bunch of rightwingers. geek tragedy Dec 2013 #159

People can be primarily liberal and still have gender biases that are extreme right-wing LadyHawkAZ Dec 2013 #163

asdf geek tragedy Dec 2013 #164

. LadyHawkAZ Dec 2013 #165

yawn. geek tragedy Dec 2013 #166

... LadyHawkAZ Dec 2013 #167

Hey, if you think I'm misogynist for disliking men who wank to rape porn . . . geek tragedy Dec 2013 #173

I don't care how you like to have sex LadyHawkAZ Dec 2013 #174

bahahahawahahaha. omg. funny. tears of laughter over here. Tuesday Afternoon Dec 2013 #80

I imagine many people tell themselves that. LanternWaste Dec 2013 #141

I think you have at last hit on one thing that's good about those jobs treestar Dec 2013 #72

Oh? Vashta Nerada Dec 2013 #92

Those things could happen, but don't see how you could consider it at all comparable treestar Dec 2013 #155

You also don't think anyone can consent to have sex in front of a camera, right? Warren DeMontague Dec 2013 #43

Why on earth would anyone consent to $200 for 5 minutes work? Major Nikon Dec 2013 #57

So, you're saying that people with financial pressures and/or drug addiction shouldn't be allowed to EOTE Dec 2013 #127

Financial transactions are the clearest form of consent. n/t lumberjack_jeff Dec 2013 #130

Just ask any loan shark... LanternWaste Dec 2013 #142

There are prostitutes who aren't on any drugs and enjoy getting paid for sex. phleshdef Dec 2013 #168

Fencing stolen property. "two consenting adults in private" Cerridwen Dec 2013 #37

Working without overtime or minimum wage=consenting adults. geek tragedy Dec 2013 #47

fascism. Cerridwen Dec 2013 #51

Absolutely I'm selective about it. Your examples involve a third party lightcameron Dec 2013 #82

Whole field of strawmen there. phleshdef Dec 2013 #169

It's always been illegal in America, and it's not stopping it here davidn3600 Dec 2013 #6

It wasn't illegal in most places Nevernose Dec 2013 #40

The Nordic model is a failure LittleBlue Dec 2013 #9

Ending gender-based exploitation is not 'prudish' geek tragedy Dec 2013 #13

a) That's simply not true, and b) if it were true, it would be a reason *not* to ban prostitution. Donald Ian Rankin Dec 2013 #15

(a) they aren't eligible for unemployment; (b) demand reduction is part of the geek tragedy Dec 2013 #16

point on. not that any one will listen to the obvious. nt seabeyond Dec 2013 #24

At most, "follow, if and when that has succeeded", not "be joined to". N.T. Donald Ian Rankin Dec 2013 #112

My elderly relatives told me that prostitution grew in their farming town during the Depression & El_Johns Dec 2013 #36

The Socialists in France who championed the bill there did a wonderful job defending it. redqueen Dec 2013 #17

boners uber alles explains a lot of impassioned libertarian-style geek tragedy Dec 2013 #18

That is the inevitable end to this path. None of the nations did what they did Egalitarian Thug Dec 2013 #104

Wrong. redqueen Dec 2013 #105

Wow. that's one hell of an informative post Number23 Dec 2013 #161

Baloney. Men have no right to exploit women. duffyduff Dec 2013 #19

You might as well say that gravity has no right to hold us to the earth LittleBlue Dec 2013 #21

Ugh, you must have a really low opinion of men. This is what real misandry looks like. geek tragedy Dec 2013 #45

we will. watch, work and see. Tuesday Afternoon Dec 2013 #83

You must have an awfully low opinion of women. EOTE Dec 2013 #128

I reject your Libertarian frame of reference on this. geek tragedy Dec 2013 #129

No, they're not even close to the same arguments. EOTE Dec 2013 #131

And here we see the lie that men tell themselves so that they geek tragedy Dec 2013 #135

Thanks for proving my point. EOTE Dec 2013 #137

My wife works with prostitution survivors. geek tragedy Dec 2013 #138

Well, that makes you MORE than qualified to tell women what's best for them. EOTE Dec 2013 #139

I reject your "government inside of my bedroom" frame of reference on this. phleshdef Dec 2013 #170

if it's economic activity the government is perfectly justified in regulating geek tragedy Dec 2013 #171

I'm all for regulated prostitution. phleshdef Dec 2013 #172

Guttmacher tells me that 3/4 of all abortions are due to financial reasons LadyHawkAZ Dec 2013 #91

Well, I was going to bed ......... polly7 Dec 2013 #94

I can probably guess what it will be LadyHawkAZ Dec 2013 #98

Crickets so far Major Nikon Dec 2013 #110

I'm glad I didn't wait up too long. polly7 Dec 2013 #117

Great article! LadyHawkAZ Dec 2013 #147

Guttmacher says no such thing. That's a pretty big misstatement... riderinthestorm Dec 2013 #144

My bad. 73%, not 75% LadyHawkAZ Dec 2013 #145

Your call. Deliberately distorting Guttmacher's research conclusions for your own agenda riderinthestorm Dec 2013 #160

How much financial pressure forced Suzy Hamilton to rake in $600 an hour? NoOneMan Dec 2013 #102

You can extend that argument as far as you like and the results will remain exactly the same. Egalitarian Thug Dec 2013 #106

"It's about protecting the women!" LadyHawkAZ Dec 2013 #34

"Patriarchal thinking, condensed and repackaged as concern. " Bonobo Dec 2013 #44

Here, this is up your alley LadyHawkAZ Dec 2013 #113

The lack of cognitive dissonance is what's most striking Major Nikon Dec 2013 #114

Wow, when you put it that way, it is so clear. The irony is overpowering. Bonobo Dec 2013 #115

"Trafficking" has become synonymous in the public mind with "sex trafficking", LadyHawkAZ Dec 2013 #149

It was never about protecting the women Major Nikon Dec 2013 #46

heh, mr "the 'no means no' meme is bullshit" is purporting to speak on geek tragedy Dec 2013 #54

So I'm not allowed to reference a study authored by two feminists because you said so? Major Nikon Dec 2013 #60

The feminists did not say "the no means no meme is bullshit" geek tragedy Dec 2013 #61

good analogy about forcing desert down someones throat cause they "appear" as if maybe they really seabeyond Dec 2013 #64

Well, that would require treating her like a human being at all times. geek tragedy Dec 2013 #65

lol. you know, that stuff. nt seabeyond Dec 2013 #70

Actually I could care less about him Major Nikon Dec 2013 #84

he validates family members being sexually involved and he promotes rape. now was how many decades seabeyond Dec 2013 #87

So outside the echo chambers who is saying this about him? Major Nikon Dec 2013 #90

We have forgotten that before we began calling this date rape and date fraud, we called it exciting. seabeyond Dec 2013 #93

Game, set, match... Major Nikon Dec 2013 #96

you are saying those are not actual quotes out of the book? that these words are not being read by seabeyond Dec 2013 #97

Is this not the actual data from the study? Major Nikon Dec 2013 #100

ok. i am not gonna read all that garbage trying to find out how it is game set match when i quote seabeyond Dec 2013 #99

Had you ever asked me my thoughts on the subject you might find they align quite well with yours Major Nikon Dec 2013 #101

You're the one digging in and defending someone explicitly arguing to legalize rape geek tragedy Dec 2013 #119

You have no idea what you're talking about Major Nikon Dec 2013 #122

This is what you're defending: geek tragedy Dec 2013 #123

I never did defend it Major Nikon Dec 2013 #132

You're linking to a wikipedia page instead of trying to defend that language. geek tragedy Dec 2013 #134

Why should I bother spending time debunking your baseless accusations when that's already been done? Major Nikon Dec 2013 #153

Defend the language, using your own words. nt geek tragedy Dec 2013 #154

Read the book yourself Major Nikon Dec 2013 #157

I'm sure you think you are clever for coming up with all of this Major Nikon Dec 2013 #95

That you consider legalizing date rape a rational argument says enough. nt geek tragedy Dec 2013 #118

Defamation seems to be your strong suit Major Nikon Dec 2013 #121

I know. LadyHawkAZ Dec 2013 #58

+1 idwiyo Dec 2013 #116

Message auto-removed Name removed Dec 2013 #14

Just throwing out there that many USA state statutes criminalize the acts of soliciting prostitution Johonny Dec 2013 #50

fucking people for money is called capitalism when it's done by businessmen Skittles Dec 2013 #56

There's a big difference between fucking someone and getting fucked in capitalism geek tragedy Dec 2013 #59

I am not a big fan of prostitution Skittles Dec 2013 #62

I agree upi402 Dec 2013 #89

I can't think of one instance where banning the vices of consenting adults has worked Major Nikon Dec 2013 #111

Banning prostitution is like stopping the tide upi402 Dec 2013 #162

Hey, I have an idea! Let's try this with the war on drugs! lumberjack_jeff Dec 2013 #133

Let's try it with extortion, too! LanternWaste Dec 2013 #143

First, we should try it with people who serially repeat themselves! Warren DeMontague Dec 2013 #156

So they're going after "demand" in hope hughee99 Dec 2013 #136

Still many questions Joel thakkar Dec 2013 #151