General Discussion

Lizzie Poppet

(10,164 posts)

155. Indeed so: it draws in the bigots and haters.

Sun Dec 15, 2013, 03:05 PM

Dec 2013

And there are a lot more of them on the pro-control side in this thread than on the pro-gun side: "gun humpers," "fetishists," "mentally ill," etc. In another thread, a poster called for a complete ban on gun ownership and the death penalty for non-compliance. The death penalty.

How "progressive."

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"Guns Have Changed. Our Gun Laws Have Not Kept Pace." [View all] kpete Dec 2013 OP

K&R LiberalEsto Dec 2013 #1

thank you etherealtruth Dec 2013 #2

k&r... spanone Dec 2013 #3

Or our ability to defend ourselves has vastly improved. ileus Dec 2013 #4

I like the AR Duckhunter935 Dec 2013 #19

It was the standard rate of fire for the British Army through the Napoleonic War intaglio Dec 2013 #142

Poster fail Crepuscular Dec 2013 #5

please Duckhunter935 Dec 2013 #9

Not to mention the Girandoni Rifle- 1780, 20 round tubular magazine, semi-auto X_Digger Dec 2013 #12

Which was an exotic and uncommon weapon that was pretty much unknown outside Europe Spider Jerusalem Dec 2013 #16

It was used in a lot of school shootings back then, too. Orrex Dec 2013 #20

The mid-1800's had many guns of a similar lethality. X_Digger Dec 2013 #28

Not really. Spider Jerusalem Dec 2013 #54

But the tech DID exist. eqfan592 Dec 2013 #65

There's a big gap between "did exist" and "was common". Spider Jerusalem Dec 2013 #78

Of course back that civilians could own cannons and so forth... eqfan592 Dec 2013 #79

The tech was known, and people were working on new arms. Eleanors38 Dec 2013 #113

The language "bear arms" has a specifically military context. Spider Jerusalem Dec 2013 #221

how is that Duckhunter935 Dec 2013 #229

New models didn't spring forth from the head of Zeus... Eleanors38 Dec 2013 #236

No-one said they did. Spider Jerusalem Dec 2013 #237

If that were true.. X_Digger Dec 2013 #240

Your view of the Second is an outlier. Even Laurence Tribe Eleanors38 Dec 2013 #262

What you chose to read into the poster... gcomeau Dec 2013 #82

Even if I were to concede that point, the point of the poster is still an epic fail. eqfan592 Dec 2013 #88

No, it isn't... gcomeau Dec 2013 #119

Then the poster is a logical fallacy to begin with. eqfan592 Dec 2013 #124

No, it is not. gcomeau Dec 2013 #132

Attempting to frame the debate around gun control in such a narrow way is fallacious. eqfan592 Dec 2013 #137

HOW is it fallacious? gcomeau Dec 2013 #139

False dichotomy and appeal to emotion would both appear to apply here. nt eqfan592 Dec 2013 #145

Except it is not a false dichotomy. gcomeau Dec 2013 #159

Actually, the argument is very much so based on that. eqfan592 Dec 2013 #167

It's an emotional subject. gcomeau Dec 2013 #173

I have a "mini" semi-auto. Built in 1905. Eleanors38 Dec 2013 #130

Au contraire. Straw Man Dec 2013 #241

Wow, in one whole state? gcomeau Dec 2013 #242

Yes, the third most populous state in the Union. Straw Man Dec 2013 #244

Yes, we shall keep going. gcomeau Dec 2013 #246

A fraction. Straw Man Dec 2013 #247

Yes, a fraction. gcomeau Dec 2013 #249

I see. Straw Man Dec 2013 #251

In my mind gcomeau Dec 2013 #259

Tell me why ... Straw Man Dec 2013 #265

I refer you... gcomeau Dec 2013 #266

Obviously ... Straw Man Dec 2013 #271

No, I have an... gcomeau Dec 2013 #276

No, actually you don't. Straw Man Dec 2013 #279

Sigh... gcomeau Dec 2013 #280

With pleasure. Straw Man Dec 2013 #281

Wow. gcomeau Dec 2013 #282

Now you're just babbling. Straw Man Dec 2013 #285

Similar to the Girandoni, yes. X_Digger Dec 2013 #81

+1 Agschmid Dec 2013 #152

The OP is correct, but needs to add that gun fanciers' reasons for arming up have changed. Hoyt Dec 2013 #153

The defining difference? Urbanisation. Spider Jerusalem Dec 2013 #23

Mid-1800s is 1805; Mid 18C is 1750 and Mid 19C is 1850 intaglio Dec 2013 #147

Were those guns readily available for everyone without universal background checks? Agschmid Dec 2013 #151

yes Duckhunter935 Dec 2013 #156

Yah my big point was the availability of instant money. Agschmid Dec 2013 #157

like cash, gold, silver Duckhunter935 Dec 2013 #164

Message auto-removed Name removed Dec 2013 #292

So, you and other posters think that guns have NOT jazzimov Dec 2013 #163

guns have changed Duckhunter935 Dec 2013 #168

Gun culture IS a mental illness. 99Forever Dec 2013 #6

Guns Are Our Moloch kpete Dec 2013 #7

Excellent blog, thank you. More: 99Forever Dec 2013 #8

99Forever kpete Dec 2013 #13

Wills slouches toward Salem. He should switch to H.G. Wells' Morlocks. Eleanors38 Dec 2013 #117

I assume that is your OPINION Duckhunter935 Dec 2013 #10

Gun culture IS a mental illness. 99Forever Dec 2013 #11

Remember, kids: if you use all-caps to give your hyperbole extra emphasis... Lizzie Poppet Dec 2013 #18

Gun culture IS a mental illness. 99Forever Dec 2013 #24

Free clue: parrot-like repetition of inane prattle doesn't make it any more valid. Lizzie Poppet Dec 2013 #25

When 20 children are slaughtered and the response is to go to a discussion board to defend guns DisgustipatedinCA Dec 2013 #46

Please calm down Duckhunter935 Dec 2013 #47

Which comment is over the top, and why do you support death fetishists? DisgustipatedinCA Dec 2013 #52

I am just a Duckhunter935 Dec 2013 #56

death fetishist is over the top hyperbole Mojorabbit Dec 2013 #225

If someone opposes women being armed for self-defense does that mean they are pro-rape fetishists? Nuclear Unicorn Dec 2013 #233

+1 Bjorn Against Dec 2013 #48

I think you are (in most cases) mistaking the actual cause-and-effect. Lizzie Poppet Dec 2013 #50

And what do you call people who use a tragedy to restrict a civil liberty? aikoaiko Dec 2013 #58

New Orleans cops? DisgustipatedinCA Dec 2013 #59

Yup, they did it, too. aikoaiko Dec 2013 #75

George Bush Duckhunter935 Dec 2013 #62

Yep, he did it, too. aikoaiko Dec 2013 #76

Just to be clear ... Straw Man Dec 2013 #187

How quickly we forget Einstein's view of insanity. Eleanors38 Dec 2013 #135

Indeed. Lizzie Poppet Dec 2013 #148

I don't know what he thinks on the issue of 2A, but this practice Eleanors38 Dec 2013 #238

The People of grantcart Dec 2013 #245

Do tell. Lizzie Poppet Dec 2013 #250

I spent 20 years overseas. grantcart Dec 2013 #255

You're missing my point, I think. Lizzie Poppet Dec 2013 #258

I have family members with mental illness and you assertion is an insult to those Packerowner740 Dec 2013 #138

So you see fetish as sickness? SQUEE Dec 2013 #243

Yes I agree Duckhunter935 Dec 2013 #27

It was a bad call then, and it's a bad call now. Lizzie Poppet Dec 2013 #33

I agree on the jury being flawed Duckhunter935 Dec 2013 #38

That juror comment is a perfect illustration. Lizzie Poppet Dec 2013 #40

And those jurors see nothing wrong .... oldhippie Dec 2013 #118

Voting to hide something for that sort of reasoning should get somebody banned. eqfan592 Dec 2013 #120

I'd say that's unsubstantiated chauvinism and misuse of mental illness HereSince1628 Dec 2013 #26

Strawman bullshit. 99Forever Dec 2013 #31

Not a strawman at all. You're using a chauvinistic argument with the mentally ill as the hinge HereSince1628 Dec 2013 #44

Bullshit again. 99Forever Dec 2013 #55

My, my, you've missed it entirely. Your bigoted chauvinism abuses the mentally ill. HereSince1628 Dec 2013 #69

Hogwash. 99Forever Dec 2013 #91

, Ranchemp. Dec 2013 #94

Your disconnect from reality is truly staggering. eqfan592 Dec 2013 #106

Name calling lacks eruditon...seemly, so does your understanding of "Straw man" HereSince1628 Dec 2013 #127

You post.. 99Forever Dec 2013 #129

And a Bully, Happy Holidays!, to you HereSince1628 Dec 2013 #134

Funny that... 99Forever Dec 2013 #136

You miss again. bully, adjective:dashing, hearty, or jolly HereSince1628 Dec 2013 #144

Accuse the opposition... 99Forever Dec 2013 #175

Go ahead, keep trying... HereSince1628 Dec 2013 #178

Ownership of how many guns makes Jenoch Dec 2013 #174

if it's a mental disorder, as you allege Niceguy1 Dec 2013 #45

Well there ya go, nothing promotes a reasonable discussion of the issues like calling... eqfan592 Dec 2013 #49

I call being insane, insanity. 99Forever Dec 2013 #53

And I'm sure you have a medical background that would qualify you to diagnose so many people... eqfan592 Dec 2013 #57

Does it require a "special degree" to know that ... 99Forever Dec 2013 #60

Actually, I think you're the one who's obsessed. eqfan592 Dec 2013 #61

It IS " the guns and gun owners that are the problem." 99Forever Dec 2013 #63

Actually, no, it isn't. eqfan592 Dec 2013 #73

actually he did Duckhunter935 Dec 2013 #80

No guns, no gun deaths. Period. 99Forever Dec 2013 #86

Just deaths by other means? Ranchemp. Dec 2013 #89

More strawman bullshit from another fetishist. 99Forever Dec 2013 #93

Seems to be your standard answer when you can't be honest. Ranchemp. Dec 2013 #97

I don't agrue with bullshit. 99Forever Dec 2013 #102

No, you just spew it. nt eqfan592 Dec 2013 #104

Then you are arguing with yourself, Ranchemp. Dec 2013 #111

You moved the goal post. Only gun deaths matter now, eh? eqfan592 Dec 2013 #90

More strawman bullshit. 99Forever Dec 2013 #95

Brady Org. talking point? Ranchemp. Dec 2013 #99

Given the context you just used the word in, you clearly don't understand its meaning. nt eqfan592 Dec 2013 #101

99Forever kpete Dec 2013 #68

You seem to have each others back in marginalizing the plight of the mentally ill. eqfan592 Dec 2013 #74

You are so wrong about me eqfan592 kpete Dec 2013 #92

You are in fact marginalizing it, family history or not. eqfan592 Dec 2013 #100

I abhor violence of kpete Dec 2013 #108

Really? Hearing about how dealing with poverty, poor education, inadequate mental health care... eqfan592 Dec 2013 #112

thats enough kpete Dec 2013 #115

Apparently we already were. nt eqfan592 Dec 2013 #116

Terri Schiavo Duckhunter935 Dec 2013 #64

You're correct! But at least there he looked at a video of her. eqfan592 Dec 2013 #67

you are of course right Duckhunter935 Dec 2013 #70

yes and a money grab samsingh Dec 2013 #143

For once, I agree with you. KitSileya Dec 2013 #239

Whoever made that silly poster has no idea what the fuck they're talking about. Lizzie Poppet Dec 2013 #14

And the population has increased even more ..... oldhippie Dec 2013 #15

oldhippie kpete Dec 2013 #21

We have had these types of guns for more than a century now. appal_jack Dec 2013 #17

distortion.... kpete Dec 2013 #22

sorry but an Duckhunter935 Dec 2013 #30

oh jeez,,, kpete Dec 2013 #32

The Supreme Court interpreting plain language plainly is not 'distortion.' appal_jack Dec 2013 #36

K&R. Guns have changed, as have the fantasies which accompany their usage. Paladin Dec 2013 #29

why do cops need more than 7? Duckhunter935 Dec 2013 #35

I can personally attest to that. Ranchemp. Dec 2013 #41

When they can't aim and they miss their target then innocent bystanders will be killed Bjorn Against Dec 2013 #43

"...can't aim and miss innocent bystanders..." Jenoch Dec 2013 #179

Oops, you are right that was poorly worded Bjorn Against Dec 2013 #181

How oftem does such a thing happen? Jenoch Dec 2013 #183

Are you suggesting that you have only heard of one instance in which a stray bullet killed somebody? Bjorn Against Dec 2013 #184

I mentioned one that came to mind without considering it too much. Jenoch Dec 2013 #189

It was actually Duckhunter who brought up police shooting and missing their targets Bjorn Against Dec 2013 #193

it was about never needing more than 7 rounds Duckhunter935 Dec 2013 #198

When would you envision being in that situation. You ain't in a war zone, Hoyt Dec 2013 #214

Oh I know that Duckhunter935 Dec 2013 #218

You mentioned innocent bystanders, Jenoch Dec 2013 #199

Just Google "police shoot innocent bystander" and you will get all kinds of results Bjorn Against Dec 2013 #204

This all started because your response to Duckhunter Jenoch Dec 2013 #206

I never said anything about how many rounds law enforcement should have Bjorn Against Dec 2013 #210

LA comes to mind Duckhunter935 Dec 2013 #186

I think the idiot LA cops were intending to shoot those vehicles, Jenoch Dec 2013 #191

I don't know about that -- there are a lot more laws now than then. aikoaiko Dec 2013 #34

Too true, my friend. nt appal_jack Dec 2013 #37

Do you think they could have imagined anything like the modern communication infrastructure? Decaffeinated Dec 2013 #39

This post is patently false. Gun laws obviously have changed since the days of muskets, like in 1934 Threedifferentones Dec 2013 #42

back before 34 Duckhunter935 Dec 2013 #51

AR-15 vs. Winchester Model 70 bolt action. Paladin Dec 2013 #66

Since you are repeating me I will assume you did not actually read my whole post. Threedifferentones Dec 2013 #72

the model 70 Duckhunter935 Dec 2013 #77

Extra points for the "milspec" term. Was it good for you? (nt) Paladin Dec 2013 #84

I fail to understand Duckhunter935 Dec 2013 #98

Take the rest of the day off, OK? (nt) Paladin Dec 2013 #109

Woah there. The model 70 is based off of military-issued Mausers. aikoaiko Dec 2013 #85

"You know better than to play loose with facts about guns, Paladin. " Ranchemp. Dec 2013 #87

Ranchemp, I'm disappointed in you. Paladin Dec 2013 #105

Gun control is effective as long as it's reasonable. Ranchemp. Dec 2013 #121

You seem to be fairly reasonable, yourself. Paladin Dec 2013 #133

I agree, it seems that gun threads Ranchemp. Dec 2013 #149

When was the last time a Model 70 was used in a mass shooting? Paladin Dec 2013 #96

Mass shootings are not "red herrings." Paladin Dec 2013 #83

Mass shootings are, statistically speaking, red herrings. A lot facts are hard to swallow, Threedifferentones Dec 2013 #103

Just as a note: priming and then loading a flintlock is a nice way to get shot in the face NutmegYankee Dec 2013 #71

make room for the gun humpers..... spanone Dec 2013 #107

Sadly, this is like chum in the water etherealtruth Dec 2013 #114

you all wanted it Duckhunter935 Dec 2013 #123

No this is what 'we all' want etherealtruth Dec 2013 #131

You all Duckhunter935 Dec 2013 #140

Of course it is your right to vote your conscience etherealtruth Dec 2013 #146

and that would be hand guns Duckhunter935 Dec 2013 #150

I think your thread was largely ignored because of the odd note it struck etherealtruth Dec 2013 #160

you conveniantly Duckhunter935 Dec 2013 #165

Actually, that would be a good post if clearly conveyed etherealtruth Dec 2013 #169

nope Duckhunter935 Dec 2013 #171

Such an unfortunate response etherealtruth Dec 2013 #172

I did NOT want this. Agschmid Dec 2013 #226

Indeed so: it draws in the bigots and haters. Lizzie Poppet Dec 2013 #155

So true ... those in favor of strict gun control etherealtruth Dec 2013 #161

The abusive ones are in the minority. Lizzie Poppet Dec 2013 #162

As it always has been and forever will etherealtruth Dec 2013 #166

So true. Lizzie Poppet Dec 2013 #170

And your insulting phrase "gun humpers" is exactly why Ranchemp. Dec 2013 #125

And isn't it amazing that term is permitted, ...... oldhippie Dec 2013 #154

Some animals are more equal than others. Lizzie Poppet Dec 2013 #158

Just hie thee off to any of the many rightwing gun forums and your fav terms are perfectly fine. Warren Stupidity Dec 2013 #176

There's nothing "progressive" about abject bigotry and pointlessly divisive language. Lizzie Poppet Dec 2013 #177

right. We should tolerate all sorts of rightwing nutjob whackery here. Warren Stupidity Dec 2013 #185

Nice strawman. Hope it protects your garden. Lizzie Poppet Dec 2013 #188

That is not what I see Duckhunter935 Dec 2013 #192

What bigotry are you referring to? Bjorn Against Dec 2013 #190

An excellent question! Lizzie Poppet Dec 2013 #194

they will never see it or accept it Duckhunter935 Dec 2013 #196

Many will, I think. Lizzie Poppet Dec 2013 #197

I hope you are right nt Duckhunter935 Dec 2013 #200

So do you consider people who use tems like "gun grabber" and "hoplophobe" to be bigots as well? Bjorn Against Dec 2013 #201

That term is rarely used Duckhunter935 Dec 2013 #202

You much not pay much attention then, the pro-gun side is filled with bigots Bjorn Against Dec 2013 #208

we will disagree Duckhunter935 Dec 2013 #211

If you paid any attention at all during the trial there were constant smears of Trayvon Martin Bjorn Against Dec 2013 #212

In fact I do. Lizzie Poppet Dec 2013 #203

Well I can at least respect your consistency Bjorn Against Dec 2013 #205

Thank you. Lizzie Poppet Dec 2013 #207

intolerance Duckhunter935 Dec 2013 #195

So says one of the ..... oldhippie Dec 2013 #209

I think a vast Duckhunter935 Dec 2013 #213

Fascinating. How does that work, exactly? Warren Stupidity Dec 2013 #219

dont be coy Duckhunter935 Dec 2013 #220

How exactly are randomly selected juries stacked with Warren Stupidity Dec 2013 #222

So disdainful of discussion that you have mock DU members. aikoaiko Dec 2013 #128

K & R Thanks! mountain grammy Dec 2013 #110

I think this thread makes it very clear ...... oldhippie Dec 2013 #122

I agree Duckhunter935 Dec 2013 #126

How can one post rationally to folks who need a gun or two to venture into public, Hoyt Dec 2013 #215

Most CCW do not regulary carry Duckhunter935 Dec 2013 #216

Who said anything about death penalty for gun fanciers, imprisonment maybe Hoyt Dec 2013 #217

Evidently irrational name calling holds a higher value, because Skip Intro Dec 2013 #230

excellent post samsingh Dec 2013 #141

No, they haven't changed much at all for a very long time. Egalitarian Thug Dec 2013 #180

I believe the factual error at the top Jenoch Dec 2013 #182

We are still left with the bottom of the poster. Orsino Dec 2013 #223

It appears you have misunderstood my post. Jenoch Dec 2013 #224

My idea... Orsino Dec 2013 #267

I do not agree with the premise about the fiunding fathers. Jenoch Dec 2013 #269

The poster interested you enough... Orsino Dec 2013 #270

Factual errors when attempting to Jenoch Dec 2013 #272

See, that's not cutting it. Orsino Dec 2013 #273

ThT's not what I wrote. Jenoch Dec 2013 #277

Post #182 is what you wrote... Orsino Dec 2013 #286

I believe there are several things that can be done in the area of gun laws. Jenoch Dec 2013 #287

Not really Spider Jerusalem Dec 2013 #234

two more important graphics ... napkinz Dec 2013 #227

Good post. deathrind Dec 2013 #228

Wow, only 36 recs. Hopeful sign! n/t Skip Intro Dec 2013 #231

232 replies, only 38 recs. Hmmmmmm. Hekate Dec 2013 #232

thanks Hekate kpete Dec 2013 #235

Message auto-removed Name removed Dec 2013 #248

Rachel Maddow comment ... napkinz Dec 2013 #252

Rachel Maddow was wrong about this, Ranchemp. Dec 2013 #257

You just can't have a rational discussion regarding gun control here in America. Oakenshield Dec 2013 #253

the insanity! napkinz Dec 2013 #254

A lot of Morlocks in this thread. Tommy_Carcetti Dec 2013 #256

I'd scream too, if I had a chance to dine on Yvette! Eleanors38 Dec 2013 #263

"Finish the Job" and Expand the Brady Law to Online and Gun Show Sales Now napkinz Dec 2013 #260

Universal background checks make perfect sense. Lizzie Poppet Dec 2013 #264

I agree ... napkinz Dec 2013 #275

An idea that I support in principal, but background checks against what? HereSince1628 Dec 2013 #290

I like this! kpete Dec 2013 #268

thanks napkinz Dec 2013 #274

Universal background checks would be awesome, and possibly attainable Recursion Dec 2013 #284

ask yourself why ... napkinz Dec 2013 #261

two new graphics posted by "Americans Against The Republican Party" napkinz Dec 2013 #278

I can't think of a way guns have changed in the past century or so Recursion Dec 2013 #283

Message auto-removed Name removed Dec 2013 #288

I don't think I understand your point... Agschmid Dec 2013 #289

Message auto-removed Name removed Dec 2013 #291