General Discussion

Major Nikon

(36,925 posts)

54. They are a failure because we just need more gun nuts to keep us safe from the gun nuts

Mon Dec 16, 2013, 09:38 PM

Dec 2013

Makes perfect sense.

Guns do not make people safer. They make people less safe.
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/sep/18/gun-ownership-gun-deaths-study
http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2013/09/26/2680541/how-guns-at-home-can-make-women-less-safe/
http://www.examiner.com/article/possessing-a-gun-makes-you-less-safe-not-more-safe
http://www.iansa.org/system/files/Risks%20and%20Benefits%20of%20a%20Gun%20in%20the%20Home%202011.pdf

Introducing more guns into the equation has an inverse effect on safety.

Calling gun free zones an "abject failure of epic proportions" has no basis in reality. The idea that injecting more guns into an environment that already has an extremely low incidence rate of gun violence is moronic. Remember the NRA's great idea of having armed rent-a-cops in schools? That sure worked out brilliantly. Now imagine multiplying that fucked up notion exponentially along with arming people who are less trained than cops with guns.

http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/school-guard-suspended-gun-hallway-article-1.1282242

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Highlight:

Inside a School Where Teachers Pack Heat [View all] BainsBane Dec 2013 OP

gun owners just need to stop shooting kids. nt msongs Dec 2013 #1

Or stop telling us how how responsible they are... LanternWaste Dec 2013 #4

The vast, VAST majority are. eqfan592 Dec 2013 #17

When they... AgingAmerican Dec 2013 #100

is that the vast majority Duckhunter935 Dec 2013 #101

Why don't the 'vast majority' of gun owners AgingAmerican Dec 2013 #107

Both of those may be in poor taste.... eqfan592 Dec 2013 #104

Poor taste? AgingAmerican Dec 2013 #110

Complicit in what? eqfan592 Dec 2013 #111

So you do buy into it AgingAmerican Dec 2013 #116

If by "buy into it" you mean I think we should have trained personnel at schools... eqfan592 Dec 2013 #119

By buy into it I mean AgingAmerican Dec 2013 #120

Well, how anybody can shut down the reasoning center of their brain... eqfan592 Dec 2013 #123

There is no reason to RW talking points AgingAmerican Dec 2013 #124

fuck that Oscarmonster13 Dec 2013 #2

It's national insanity BainsBane Dec 2013 #3

"Finish the Job" and Expand the Brady Law to Online and Gun Show Sales Now napkinz Dec 2013 #5

I bought a gun online Duckhunter935 Dec 2013 #6

It's funny how the myth of online sales with no background check Blanket Statements Dec 2013 #7

because it's not a myth BainsBane Dec 2013 #10

Please show us? Duckhunter935 Dec 2013 #12

They don't want to acknowledge the sales Blanket Statements Dec 2013 #16

I posted my real life experience Duckhunter935 Dec 2013 #14

Do you know what? BainsBane Dec 2013 #28

So duckhunter posted above that it is federal law that Internet and gunshow purchases Packerowner740 Dec 2013 #49

Various percentages are given in the media BainsBane Dec 2013 #68

Soooo the 40% claim isn't actually verifiable Blanket Statements Dec 2013 #69

"It doesn't matter which I quote because you will call it a lie" Packerowner740 Dec 2013 #73

That's a typical response to anyone who questions her dubious claims. cleanhippie Dec 2013 #114

Oh, ok thanks Packerowner740 Dec 2013 #125

When you "quote" something that you fabricated from thin air, that's a "lie." cleanhippie Dec 2013 #113

I'd love to see one link, just one to a website Blanket Statements Dec 2013 #15

Okay BainsBane Dec 2013 #23

That website doesn't sell a single gun. Blanket Statements Dec 2013 #30

It advertises guns for sale BainsBane Dec 2013 #89

Ummm nooo, the seller is still required Blanket Statements Dec 2013 #91

Then why did the NRA spend millions to defeat background check legislation? BainsBane Dec 2013 #92

Nobody said no guns were sold without them Blanket Statements Dec 2013 #95

A reaction to pushing gun control for the sake of gun control, perhaps. beevul Dec 2013 #127

an online newspaper classified ad Duckhunter935 Dec 2013 #43

did you read this from your site? Duckhunter935 Dec 2013 #48

wow, is that like clicking that you are 18 to read porn? BainsBane Dec 2013 #90

The claim was that they were sold over the internet Blanket Statements Dec 2013 #93

they will never understand Duckhunter935 Dec 2013 #97

Nope. Blanket Statements Dec 2013 #99

You know that all online sales have to go through a gun dealer - it is Federal law. Nt hack89 Dec 2013 #18

Shhhhh...you'll upset the unicorns Blanket Statements Dec 2013 #19

'Online' sales across state lines require an FFL, or those where the seller petronius Dec 2013 #36

Private party gun sales do not require background checks Blanket Statements Dec 2013 #40

yes the do Duckhunter935 Dec 2013 #45

I'm in VA. Private party sales are exempt Blanket Statements Dec 2013 #62

Right - as long as the state allows private party sales, and the transaction is petronius Dec 2013 #46

Well if we're talking about a legal means to buy a gun Blanket Statements Dec 2013 #56

Perhaps it is merely a semantic issue hack89 Dec 2013 #50

Yep Duckhunter935 Dec 2013 #55

You can go through an FFL right now. You should not be able to do a background Hoyt Dec 2013 #70

You're right, "online sale" does seem to have a flexible definition which petronius Dec 2013 #63

If I were to sell a gun, I'd pay and FFL holder wercal Dec 2013 #65

Then why do we keep seeing that 40% don't? Packerowner740 Dec 2013 #53

Because Duckhunter935 Dec 2013 #64

Those are private sales - a completely separate issue hack89 Dec 2013 #71

Yes, the old "all kinds of evidence" that nobody ever seems to have seen... eqfan592 Dec 2013 #22

look above BainsBane Dec 2013 #24

That website doesn't sell guns. Blanket Statements Dec 2013 #35

Got a link to "all kinds of evidence showing it occurs all the time"? seveneyes Dec 2013 #47

You are correct that an on line gun sale is completed frequently firsttimer Dec 2013 #87

I've bought several guns online with no background check - all pre 1898 firearms tularetom Dec 2013 #72

You can also buy a black powder from Cabelas shipped to your home but firsttimer Dec 2013 #94

You are correct Duckhunter935 Dec 2013 #98

No way. I would yank my kids if the teachers started carrying guns nt riderinthestorm Dec 2013 #8

Me too. I find this concept just so bizarre. n/t demmiblue Dec 2013 #26

.... because teachers are not human beings ...? etherealtruth Dec 2013 #9

Neither are cops ...? oldhippie Dec 2013 #11

Cops are specifically trained and practiced (admittedly not well practiced) etherealtruth Dec 2013 #21

I agree that teachers shouldn't have to undergo militaristic training. eqfan592 Dec 2013 #27

i have strong faith in the fact that you would not mind it etherealtruth Dec 2013 #29

And I have strong faith in your inability to hold a rational discussion of the issue. nt eqfan592 Dec 2013 #32

I believe you feel that way etherealtruth Dec 2013 #34

Please read on line tonight's PBS News, and its story on school shootings. Thanks. Eleanors38 Dec 2013 #41

I couldn't find that but I did find a link to NPR's story ... etherealtruth Dec 2013 #52

My goof! I meant PBS Newshour for tonight... Eleanors38 Dec 2013 #106

I'm afraid that if you actually saw the amount of gun training ..... oldhippie Dec 2013 #33

I have a little insight and I am appalled etherealtruth Dec 2013 #37

Well they are fantastic at tazering and shooting service dogs. Glassunion Dec 2013 #76

That's just it ... etherealtruth Dec 2013 #77

It's a numbers game. Glassunion Dec 2013 #78

So wait, you're saying that by disallowing teachers from legally carrying... eqfan592 Dec 2013 #20

Yes, I know you are extremely devoted to guns etherealtruth Dec 2013 #25

I've posted plenty on other topics. eqfan592 Dec 2013 #31

Do you honestly believe what I did was "lash out?" etherealtruth Dec 2013 #39

Then use the search function. eqfan592 Dec 2013 #44

It's not worth using the search function etherealtruth Dec 2013 #60

They are a failure because we just need more gun nuts to keep us safe from the gun nuts Major Nikon Dec 2013 #54

It would be Ok with me ..... oldhippie Dec 2013 #13

Yahoos with guns is the problem. Hoyt Dec 2013 #74

Right, it's the yahoos that are the problem. cleanhippie Dec 2013 #115

Yahoos + their gunz. We don't agree on gunz. Hoyt Dec 2013 #117

What's a gunz? cleanhippie Dec 2013 #118

Thank god there was armed security at Arapahoe High. Eleanors38 Dec 2013 #38

I would pull my kid out of any school where any one was packing a firearm even Cleita Dec 2013 #42

What about stepping up security in all public schools? What about supporting >> YOHABLO Dec 2013 #51

I understand Duckhunter935 Dec 2013 #58

Wouldn't bother me with an acceptable certification... Decaffeinated Dec 2013 #57

NRA certification, no doubt. Hoyt Dec 2013 #75

Another brilliant NRA idea. Armed rent-a-cops in schools Major Nikon Dec 2013 #81

Yep. And many of the gun fanciers would like to see "gun safety" taught by NRA Hoyt Dec 2013 #82

I would prefer the local law enforcement activity and Duckhunter935 Dec 2013 #83

Politics and policy aside... They are the current standard... Decaffeinated Dec 2013 #84

That's what we need, some NRA gun promoters lying to our kids. Hoyt Dec 2013 #86

Do you actually listen to, and believe the nonsense you spout? Ranchemp. Dec 2013 #122

Fine with me Duckhunter935 Dec 2013 #59

It would be really nice if discussions about guns on DU weren't dominated by a half dozen loons. LeftyMom Dec 2013 #61

I agree Duckhunter935 Dec 2013 #66

*cough* LeftyMom Dec 2013 #67

And I could easily name the half-dozen ..... oldhippie Dec 2013 #85

No, I wouldn't want my school teachers carrying guns. No, I wouldn't feel my kids are safer there. ancianita Dec 2013 #79

I'm just glad my kids are all over 18 and I don't have to worry quite as much anymore Packerowner740 Dec 2013 #102

Mine, too, but I still worry about the public's kids. To me they should still be a worry for all ancianita Dec 2013 #103

Fair questions sarisataka Dec 2013 #80

I don't like the idea of armed teachers. rrneck Dec 2013 #88

When seconds matter and lives are are stake seveneyes Dec 2013 #96

I would rather see tougher measures in how someone can access a school firsttimer Dec 2013 #105

Yeah, what's going to stop a group of kids from tackling this jackass down and stealing his gun? Vashta Nerada Dec 2013 #108

I would be willing to bet that most of those kids that go to that small school in firsttimer Dec 2013 #109

His gun gives him supper human powers of stupidity.... so... he'll just deny they did it uponit7771 Dec 2013 #112

I don't think this is a good idea. HappyMe Dec 2013 #121

Stupid in so many ways.... Bigmack Dec 2013 #126