General Discussion

reACTIONary

(7,441 posts)

180. FYI, We do not live in a communist country...

Tue Dec 17, 2013, 10:53 PM

Dec 2013

... so concerns about what communist countries did or do to their quote-citizens-unquote aren't relevant.

The government is supposed to ~~keep its nose out of the personal business of those who elect it~~ enforce the law of the land. In Smith v. Maryland, the Supreme Court held that law enforcement's collection of telephone numbers called from a particular telephone line was not a “search” within the meaning of the Fourth Amendment, and thus no warrant was required.

NSA and the 4th Amendment

The NSA does not want your phone records and does not want to know who you are and are not talking to - they want to know who suspected foreign terrorists are talking to. Your phone records are incidental to this goal and are not further interrogated unless they are specifically relevant to this purpose.

What the East German, Polish and Soviet governments were up to (I use the past tense, because, in case you have not noticed, they DO NOT EVEN EXIST any longer) is not relevant to what the government of the United States of America is up to.

You seem to believe that we should not have effective measures for the enforcement of just laws in the here-and-now because in some imaginary, dystopian future the same measures might be used to enforce unjust laws. I think the problem is laws that are unjust , not effective law enforcement. I believe in just laws, the rule of law and effective law enforcement.

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Highlight:

NSA Staffer: Snowden Didn't Dupe Coworkers Out of Passwords [View all] Hissyspit Dec 2013 OP

K&R n/t hootinholler Dec 2013 #1

Recommended and bookmarked. Autumn Dec 2013 #2

Wow billhicks76 Dec 2013 #142

Sounds like he wasn't the only one concerned about what was going on. But he was one ready to take sabrina 1 Dec 2013 #3

K&R idwiyo Dec 2013 #4

"60 Minutes" was a hit job. jsr Dec 2013 #5

Yet he didn't understand what a secure FTP server was. randome Dec 2013 #6

Who didn't? Hissyspit Dec 2013 #7

Why bother with that NSA appologist that repeats the same laughable things over and over? DesMoinesDem Dec 2013 #9

Snowden didn't. randome Dec 2013 #11

I'm not sure that's actually been proven. Hissyspit Dec 2013 #13

Greenwald sure thought he had the NSA by the short hairs when he trumpeted 'direct access'. randome Dec 2013 #15

Snowden's claims of "Direct Access" have been proven over the last 6 months. bvar22 Dec 2013 #102

I doubt that 'they' spy on their ex-lover's phone calls and emails. randome Dec 2013 #104

So you admit that this happened. bvar22 Dec 2013 #107

The abusive employees did not use the PRISM program for this purpose. randome Dec 2013 #113

I DID predict a diversionary dodge. bvar22 Dec 2013 #117

A huge plus one! nt Enthusiast Dec 2013 #161

Did you ever work for a phone company back in the old days when the lines were physically JDPriestly Dec 2013 #120

So the NSA is blackmailing every employee of Google, Microsoft, Facebook, etc? randome Dec 2013 #132

I am not saying that they do blackmail anyone. JDPriestly Dec 2013 #138

the point in collecting all that metadata... reACTIONary Dec 2013 #147

What exactly is so personal about "this number called that number"? JDPriestly Dec 2013 #154

FYI, We do not live in a communist country... reACTIONary Dec 2013 #180

If this is true-- JDPriestly Dec 2013 #184

All of those citizens in prison... reACTIONary Dec 2013 #195

It will most likely be argued before the Supreme Court. JDPriestly Dec 2013 #196

You are etitled to your opinion, and... reACTIONary Dec 2013 #199

A public attack, indiscriminate in nature against a political figure? JDPriestly Dec 2013 #200

my thoughts... reACTIONary Dec 2013 #201

Joe Biden sure disagrees with you. bvar22 Dec 2013 #171

The metadata being collected was fine with everyone until Snowden yelled 'Fire!' randome Dec 2013 #172

Speak for yourself. bvar22 Dec 2013 #173

Let's just say that... reACTIONary Dec 2013 #181

That is invalid reasonng, and historical revisionism. bvar22 Dec 2013 #186

If you were to provide some sort of objective, measurable metric... reACTIONary Dec 2013 #192

So? nt reACTIONary Dec 2013 #179

I have seen state level employees do the same thing.... VanillaRhapsody Dec 2013 #151

Just curious . . . hueymahl Dec 2013 #123

Do you know how to tap into a fiber optic cable? Mnpaul Dec 2013 #152

And I wonder why a prism is called a prism? randome Dec 2013 #170

I don't have to accept either Mnpaul Dec 2013 #198

NSA would never, ever, give a program a name... reACTIONary Dec 2013 #182

Its funny that their random name generator came up with... Mnpaul Dec 2013 #185

Oh My. bvar22 Dec 2013 #187

They want me to believe Mnpaul Dec 2013 #191

Please see post #193... reACTIONary Dec 2013 #194

After the fact, post hoc spin.... reACTIONary Dec 2013 #193

Did Bush pick "Traffic Thief" too? Mnpaul Dec 2013 #197

The REAL secret meaning! You have to play it backward... reACTIONary Dec 2013 #202

But he's a "genius among geniuses" who ProSense Dec 2013 #10

I agree he's no traitor, just a confused loner who has now painted himself into a corner. randome Dec 2013 #12

The comment I cited ProSense Dec 2013 #14

Nonsense. Hissyspit Dec 2013 #16

No, it isn't. n/t ProSense Dec 2013 #17

Just the fact that admin at NSA leaked files would be enough to produce an initial sense of betrayal Hissyspit Dec 2013 #20

They felt "shocked and betrayed" by his actions. ProSense Dec 2013 #24

And? Luminous Animal Dec 2013 #30

LOL! ProSense Dec 2013 #32

Falling back on that, hunh? Hissyspit Dec 2013 #33

Yes, it is. Enthusiast Dec 2013 #162

Maybe if you read the excerpt you cited a few more times you will understand it. DesMoinesDem Dec 2013 #21

The article is clear. He was given access by his supwriors Luminous Animal Dec 2013 #23

. this. . niyad Dec 2013 #47

There was no indication in the article... ljm2002 Dec 2013 #50

Actually, ProSense Dec 2013 #54

"You can parse it anyway you want to"... ljm2002 Dec 2013 #57

Nonsense, ProSense Dec 2013 #59

Slither away, ProSense... ljm2002 Dec 2013 #63

No, and my point stands. ProSense Dec 2013 #64

Post removed Post removed Dec 2013 #82

"She has all day to post. It is her job. Just ignore her." ProSense Dec 2013 #84

I am well acquainted with PS... ljm2002 Dec 2013 #92

LOL! ProSense Dec 2013 #94

Trying to get the last word again? hueymahl Dec 2013 #158

He didn't need their passwords, according to the article. tblue37 Dec 2013 #148

This is absolute bullshit. Wikileaks worked to maintain his freedom. Luminous Animal Dec 2013 #26

Sarah Harrison may have been captivated by Snowden but little else came of it. randome Dec 2013 #28

WikiLeaks Twitter account has continually praised Harrison. Hissyspit Dec 2013 #38

I have proof of nothing in this life. randome Dec 2013 #40

It is funny watching people play mental gymnastics over some dude they Rex Dec 2013 #67

It spotlights the Big Lie. bvar22 Dec 2013 #103

When he left that high end hotel in HK, he went to the Russian consulate. MADem Dec 2013 #48

Everything about Snowden seems odd. randome Dec 2013 #66

I think he's been a Russian asset for years. MADem Dec 2013 #68

What about that claim that he broke both legs in the military? randome Dec 2013 #69

Supposedly that happened on an obstacle course. MADem Dec 2013 #78

I can believe the broken legs claim jmowreader Dec 2013 #108

Okay, then, thanks for the info. Maybe that's exactly what happened to him, then. randome Dec 2013 #114

Other things happen to you at SFAS jmowreader Dec 2013 #124

So can I. I think he broke the legs on the regular obstacle course, though, not "Special Forces." MADem Dec 2013 #126

oh brother grasswire Dec 2013 #73

Maybe he was hiding behind the grassy knoll! Rex Dec 2013 #75

He WAS hiding in the Russian consulate. That's not a CT, that's fact. MADem Dec 2013 #83

Well I got YELLED AT for calling him a possible Chinese spy Rex Dec 2013 #86

Well, you didn't hear ME doing any yelling! MADem Dec 2013 #95

No impossible...he stayed in HONG KONG! Rex Dec 2013 #97

The source in the article is unnamed, so there's no way "he or she" can be challenged. MADem Dec 2013 #100

You do understand how investigative journalism works, right? ljm2002 Dec 2013 #118

Yes, I do. Usually a reporter--an investigative one, adhering to standard 'journalistic' practices-- MADem Dec 2013 #122

Ah, I see... ljm2002 Dec 2013 #125

If you believe that Forbes is a neutral arbiter of events of the day, I have a bridge to sell you, MADem Dec 2013 #163

Again: ljm2002 Dec 2013 #166

No, the story is an anecdote by an unnamed person. A single, solitary unnamed person, gossiping MADem Dec 2013 #174

I don't demand your fealty to my opinion. MADem Dec 2013 #80

I think it is common that a person can be a genius in his field and not so Mojorabbit Dec 2013 #31

Yes Springslips Dec 2013 #42

"Think Einstein" ProSense Dec 2013 #55

Come again? Perhaps I am dense today but I don't understand your post. nt Mojorabbit Dec 2013 #109

+1 uponit7771 Dec 2013 #19

k and r niyad Dec 2013 #8

Kicking (above the thread-jack) KurtNYC Dec 2013 #45

one would think that would be the sensible thing to do. niyad Dec 2013 #49

"But an NSA staffer"... lol... SnowGlen fans are stretching.................again uponit7771 Dec 2013 #18

Hunh? Hissyspit Dec 2013 #22

which part is unclear? That people are supposed to believe ONE " anonymous" source or that uponit7771 Dec 2013 #25

Spiegel never made that claim. Luminous Animal Dec 2013 #27

FALSE Der Spiegel didn't GOT files from space aliens they got them from Snow Glen and specifically uponit7771 Dec 2013 #34

You don't have to believe one anonymous source. Hissyspit Dec 2013 #29

You're right, I wont believe ONE anonymous source but Der Spiegel is good enough for me to uponit7771 Dec 2013 #35

Lots of people like civil liberties whistleblowers. Hissyspit Dec 2013 #36

I disagree, you can whistle blow to authorities and not state sponsored news sources like Chinas uponit7771 Dec 2013 #110

Fine, the leaks COULD put lives in danger. NuclearDem Dec 2013 #51

^^^ grasswire Dec 2013 #76

^^^ Rex Dec 2013 #87

You're CORRECT, I agree not their fault but that's not RIGHT and that's were I draw the line... uponit7771 Dec 2013 #111

Please cite the sources for your claim... bvar22 Dec 2013 #188

I like this post! +1! Enthusiast Dec 2013 #164

You guy who consistently attack Snowden pscot Dec 2013 #37

Can you link to the exact part of any article where Der Spiegel says Snowden riderinthestorm Dec 2013 #46

"SPIEGEL has decided not to publish details it has seen...that could endanger the lives of NSA worke ProSense Dec 2013 #58

So you only have a hypothetical, nothing more. That's not any evidence at all. nt riderinthestorm Dec 2013 #93

? ProSense Dec 2013 #96

The hypothetical is that he endangered anyone with what's been leaked riderinthestorm Dec 2013 #99

An agent's life is endangered when his/her identity has been compromised. randome Dec 2013 #106

So you have absolutely no evidence, just your own speculation riderinthestorm Dec 2013 #155

You do realize that a German publication was quoted, there? Not "opinion"--fact. nt MADem Dec 2013 #176

Amazing how this shit mattered when it was Valerie Plame getting screwed by the Bush crew. MADem Dec 2013 #175

'Dreamy Eddie' and 'The Kenyan'. randome Dec 2013 #178

Notice that someone who works there treestar Dec 2013 #101

+1....Right, and the "someone" is just that.. someone... no position etc uponit7771 Dec 2013 #112

What was the position of the person who made the initial claim Hissyspit Dec 2013 #145

..that's true, you have a point... that guy couldah been Donald Duck too... I don't trust this uponit7771 Dec 2013 #168

Like certain people automatically believed he duped people out of passwords, Hissyspit Dec 2013 #143

Anon staffer verified by....SNOWDEN!!!! LOL hilarious. nt DevonRex Dec 2013 #183

Yeah well he managed to get himself stuck in Russia...... KentuckyWoman Dec 2013 #39

Actually the reported quote is "genius among geniuses," Hissyspit Dec 2013 #41

And he had boxes in his garage! Th1onein Dec 2013 #53

And THAT is really pissing off a lot of people! Rex Dec 2013 #65

Ha, no shit klook Dec 2013 #72

The vacillation between him being 'traitor, loser, loner, genius, brilliant, hero' Rex Dec 2013 #74

true, true grasswire Dec 2013 #79

And it is far from being over imo. Rex Dec 2013 #85

Those boxes are filled with the broken hearts of ballerinas! QC Dec 2013 #88

I heard they were filled with stripper polls and encryption keys. Rex Dec 2013 #89

See compilation of NSA stories in the Progressive Group rhett o rick Dec 2013 #43

Thanks! jsr Dec 2013 #44

It is enlightening to watch the tools "Out" Themselves... bvar22 Dec 2013 #52

Calling people "tools" because they're critical of Snowden ProSense Dec 2013 #56

Nobody here thinks that YOU are a "tool", Pro. bvar22 Dec 2013 #105

Dunno about 'tools'...maybe I would say 'sheeple unknowingly helping support Big Brother.' Rex Dec 2013 #60

Tools Enthusiast Dec 2013 #167

It is AMAZING isn't it? The constant clanging for obedience to the rules that the 1% have created HangOnKids Dec 2013 #61

Predictable as pudding. Matariki Dec 2013 #81

A huge plus one! nt Enthusiast Dec 2013 #165

But but but...the Usual Suspects 'Nancy Graced' me that he was a mad Rex Dec 2013 #62

So... Aviation Pro Dec 2013 #70

Makes one wonder what kind of internal security the NSA had? Rex Dec 2013 #77

Actually, ronnie624 Dec 2013 #90

Good Work, Hissyspit, thank you. 2banon Dec 2013 #71

And now, this genius with ethics is working for someone else Demeter Dec 2013 #91

Just their traditional enemies...but who could have thought that a mediocre Rex Dec 2013 #98

Living in a Society of Fear dregstudios Dec 2013 #115

this 'genious' thinks Russia is king of human rights. Whisp Dec 2013 #116

Do you do anything other than shill for the NSA?[n/t] Maedhros Dec 2013 #119

no Whisp Dec 2013 #121

What do you think Warren thinks about the whole NSA thing? Ash_F Dec 2013 #127

her and I can disagree but I still admire and respect her Whisp Dec 2013 #128

I don't think you actually admire nor respect her. Ash_F Dec 2013 #131

o really. Whisp Dec 2013 #135

That last comment wasn't really for your consumption. /nt Ash_F Dec 2013 #146

Post removed Post removed Dec 2013 #129

lol Whisp Dec 2013 #130

No one has provided ANY credible evidence that Snowden has given any info Hissyspit Dec 2013 #141

I wouldn't use 'credible' and 'Snowden' in one sentence. n/t Whisp Dec 2013 #150

Do you have a cite for that? LittleBlue Dec 2013 #136

oh, you didn't hear? Whisp Dec 2013 #137

You are taking him out of context, of course: Hissyspit Dec 2013 #139

Snowden was referring to specific human rights: Hissyspit Dec 2013 #140

you mean only for specific humans? Whisp Dec 2013 #149

What a fallacious response. Hissyspit Dec 2013 #153

This is how I know that the NSA puff piece is full of shit: blackspade Dec 2013 #133

Got Root SpcMnky Dec 2013 #134

Snowden is all of that . . . another_liberal Dec 2013 #144

K&R avaistheone1 Dec 2013 #156

he was given the keys to the kingdom? madrchsod Dec 2013 #157

"Obviously facing a dead-end career. Attention seeking media whore." SARCASM. GoneFishin Dec 2013 #159

K&R! Are you going to believe the 60 Minute's explanation? Enthusiast Dec 2013 #160

The guy who walked out with ohheckyeah Dec 2013 #169

Well well. This is new. Someone is finding a different string to pull to unravel the official story. Hekate Dec 2013 #177

"genius among geniuses?" Blue_Tires Dec 2013 #189

He duped them. Pwds were not given to him to steal the data. He lied and duped them. stevenleser Dec 2013 #190