General Discussion

Ikonoklast

(23,973 posts)

45. You didn't tell the reason why they won't have the money. The politicians that promised it stole it.

Thu Dec 19, 2013, 04:32 PM

Dec 2013

The leaders of those political subdivisions made the promises to fund those pensions then reneged on them, using money that should have been earmarked for that purpose for other things.

Public employees are not the problem here, politicians that lied to both them and their constituency are the problem.

It's the same bullshit that corporations pulled, they promise the employees their pensions as part of a total compensation package, underfund it on purpose or use that money for other things, then tell those that they lied to all along that it's their own fault for wanting what was due them.

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Goodbye. Goodbye. GOODBYE. Get the fuck out already. [View all] Smarmie Doofus Dec 2013 OP

"labor-electoral complex" jberryhill Dec 2013 #1

That sounds like I hate you all 'cause you BlueToTheBone Dec 2013 #2

He really is perverted. Kurovski Dec 2013 #9

Totally twisted BlueToTheBone Dec 2013 #21

It's probably more to do with his loss of a Skidmore Dec 2013 #81

Ignore what he said at your own peril. badtoworse Dec 2013 #3

Then it's time to cut the Pentagon budget, to slash it actually, and to start prosecuting the sabrina 1 Dec 2013 #4

It's not a federal issue badtoworse Dec 2013 #6

'with their hands out, looking for a bailout'! Lol, and exactly what would be wrong with that sabrina 1 Dec 2013 #12

I didn't agree with those bailouts either, but at least the banks paid the loans back with interest. badtoworse Dec 2013 #18

good grief RedstDem Dec 2013 #20

What an erudite response. badtoworse Dec 2013 #24

It's more erudite than your repetition of right-wing talking points on public pensions. El_Johns Dec 2013 #39

Dare to dream. Starry Messenger Dec 2013 #64

"...but at least the banks paid the loans back with interest." KansDem Dec 2013 #54

They still have the SBA loans on their books, but at a lower interest rate than the TARP loans. badtoworse Dec 2013 #57

So, were you lying in your previous post about the loans being repaid? tabasco Dec 2013 #65

I was actually thinking of the large I Banks like Goldman, Citi, Deutsche Bank, AIG, etc. badtoworse Dec 2013 #66

No pal.. sendero Dec 2013 #80

I don't see any relevance to this thread badtoworse Dec 2013 #82

"As for the criminal aspects, DOJ is dealing with that.".. sendero Dec 2013 #83

I had forgotten that Sabrina 1 mentioned that in her post badtoworse Dec 2013 #84

And de-privatize prisons, utilities, etc. End tax breaks for corporations. arcane1 Dec 2013 #7

Detroit and Illinois's financial problems are not due to public pensions. Gidney N Cloyd Dec 2013 #16

I agree, but that does not change fiscal reality badtoworse Dec 2013 #23

And yet that is PRECISELY what you implied in response #3 tkmorris Dec 2013 #34

I took no position, implied or otherwise, as to why towns and cities would be unable to pay. badtoworse Dec 2013 #40

The average pension is $19K. That's your idea of excess? El_Johns Dec 2013 #43

I don't think $19k is excessive, but I do think you're missing the point. badtoworse Dec 2013 #47

"The city owes $15B" -- that is not immediate debt, but long-term debt, and that figure is El_Johns Dec 2013 #67

Maybe you're right, but in any case, I'm getting tired of debating Detroit. badtoworse Dec 2013 #73

I'm getting tired of people spreading propaganda. I don't ignore that reality, but I do attempt El_Johns Dec 2013 #75

Holy fuck. You should post more. *Outstanding* analysis. n/t Smarmie Doofus Dec 2013 #79

When you lead people to infer that pensions are what's draining gov't coffers people don't look at.. Gidney N Cloyd Dec 2013 #44

+1. El_Johns Dec 2013 #68

Reasonable levels of benefits? mokawanis Dec 2013 #17

Reasonable in the context of what Detroit's pensioners and workers are likely to get. badtoworse Dec 2013 #19

More baloney. El_Johns Dec 2013 #37

That is baloney. Detroit's pensions are 91% funded. The "reality" is that there has been a El_Johns Dec 2013 #36

The reality is that idiots were running Detroit. See Post 40. badtoworse Dec 2013 #42

You didn't tell the reason why they won't have the money. The politicians that promised it stole it. Ikonoklast Dec 2013 #45

The politicians who promised it have likely been out of office for years badtoworse Dec 2013 #48

Those promises are valid under each succeeding politician. Those contracts don't just go away. Ikonoklast Dec 2013 #51

That is all true, but at the end of the day, the problem still has to be solved. badtoworse Dec 2013 #53

Put the pension obligations senior to all other debt. Ikonoklast Dec 2013 #56

That would be a really bad move badtoworse Dec 2013 #58

No, they would not. Cities with good credit ratings would have no problem borrowing money. Ikonoklast Dec 2013 #70

That is true and such debt is priced accordingly badtoworse Dec 2013 #71

Sorry, you're just spreading bankster BS. The city could raise BILLIONS in additional tax revenue El_Johns Dec 2013 #69

You're making my point about Detroit for me - it's been run by morons. badtoworse Dec 2013 #72

No, it's been run by people working hand-in-glove with the banksters. El_Johns Dec 2013 #76

If we made our taxes even flat, which is completely unfair to the poor, though much better than Squinch Dec 2013 #46

I think unions should act in their own interest, but refusing to negotiate may not be the best move. badtoworse Dec 2013 #52

Detroit is not the canary in the coal mine any more than Bethlehem PA was. Both are cities that Squinch Dec 2013 #60

Time will tell. Every situation is different badtoworse Dec 2013 #61

No kidding. So we shouldn't be talking as if the only choices are bankruptcy or union capitulation. Squinch Dec 2013 #62

That was in the context of a city going broke. Of course there are other scenarios. badtoworse Dec 2013 #63

Still, Detroit has enough money to subsidize yet another stadium notadmblnd Dec 2013 #55

You don't get to be a Billionaire ... GeorgeGist Dec 2013 #5

He cares about his money. That's it. Period. People? He could give a good rat's ass. Lint Head Dec 2013 #8

Yeah, God forbid people who disagree with him should be allowed to vote... joeybee12 Dec 2013 #10

He always displayed an almost Royal disdain for the little people. It always amazed me that he ever sabrina 1 Dec 2013 #13

Initially I think NYers were still shocked by 9-11 and he fit the bill... joeybee12 Dec 2013 #14

Kind of blows that whole New York City intellectual image, doesn't it? n/t Egalitarian Thug Dec 2013 #30

That's actually a real, true belief with his crowd... Blue_Tires Dec 2013 #22

The utter contempt for democracy is appalling... joeybee12 Dec 2013 #28

Not that it's a mystery to (most) DUers...... marmar Dec 2013 #11

what a disgusting comparison. yeah....Billionaire profiteers are exactly equivalent to Pretzel_Warrior Dec 2013 #15

Is this guy for real? ryan_cats Dec 2013 #25

Speaking as one who who grew up in Queens and works in Manhattan,... badtoworse Dec 2013 #29

What do you think of the new mayor? ryan_cats Dec 2013 #35

Ask me in 6 months. I don't have an opinion yet. badtoworse Dec 2013 #41

Door/bang/arse. Warpy Dec 2013 #26

Umm, isn't the "people-electoral" complex kind of how democracy is supposed to work? reformist2 Dec 2013 #27

The only thing Bloombooger gets right is gun safety. nt politichew Dec 2013 #31

"gun safety"? Enough with the rebranding already. badtoworse Dec 2013 #32

Why am I not surprised you're a gunner? KamaAina Dec 2013 #59

Billionaire Bloomberg Explains Homeless Children: �That�s Just the Way God Works� napkinz Dec 2013 #33

�Michael Bloomberg is the most corrupt politician New York has seen in our generation.� El_Johns Dec 2013 #38

To which God replied: Ken Burch Dec 2013 #50

Shouldn't that be "Adios, MUCHACHITO"? Ken Burch Dec 2013 #49

Fuck Michael Bloomberg. Arkana Dec 2013 #74

Remember when Bloomberg and his filthy cronies assaulted Occupy Wall Street? Dawson Leery Dec 2013 #77

So, to be voted out of office is to be Jackpine Radical Dec 2013 #78